User talk:Jza84

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Archives edit • E-mail 2006 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2007 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2008 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2009 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2010 J F M A M J J A S O N D

Image:Greater Manchester County numbered.png

I would use the same colour for Salford and Manchester as the other county boroughs to show they had parity of status. The mention of city status could then go in the key. Where I've seen similar maps in journals etc. they have one it that way. MRSC • Talk 14:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Recent edits to Talk:Scotland

Talk:Scotland contains this message which is an admission that User talk:Sophie Bextor‎ tried but was blocked from entering images on Talk:Kilmarnock (see Talk:Kilmarnock#Photo Placement Request for details.) I think this justifies a block, which I have imposed, and we must wait and see what grounds are used if it is contested.  DDStretch  (talk) 23:49, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello there! I've replied on my talk page. Hope all is well.  DDStretch  (talk) 14:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

SELNEC et al

Thanks for the heads up. I am trying to plod my way through creating or upgrading articles for the pre-1974 local authorities, e.g. County Borough of Stockport. I was inspired by the colourful map that you were invoved with!

I discovered a piece in the Times of April 30, 1971: Ramsbottom in danger of being absorbed by the orange label of SELNEC by John Chartres. The interesting thing is he claims the term "SELNEC" was coined in 1959 by a group of highway engineers who set out to produce a road plan for this area. It's an opinion piece, so may well be inaccurate but it might be worthy of follow-up... Lozleader (talk) 13:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Just passing by... you'll be interested in this, which gives more history - "In December 1958, the then Minister of Transport floated the idea of assessing and planning for the long-term highway requirements of major conurbations outside London. The Minister suggested that working parties of Surveyors (Engineers) to County Councils and County Borough Councils should investigate and formulate proposals. This led to a consortium of local authorities with a common interest in the sub-region known as the S.E.L.N.E.C. (South East Lancashire North East Cheshire) area...." Not my area, so I'll leave it to others to expand on this. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:03, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Stockport

I can put up a template, I think, I should have an hour or so tonight to make a start. I assume you mean the areas of the county borough of Stockport? Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 15:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi

Hi, can you put interwikis here = Template:Prettytable ?

[[es:Plantilla:Fichabonita]] [[fr:Modèle:Prettyinfobox]] [[it:Template:Prettytable]] [[nl:Sjabloon:Prettytable]] [[no:Mal:Prettytable]] [[pt:Predefinição:Prettytable]] [[ss:Template:Fichabonita]]

the page is protected and you are a Administrator.

Thanks. OffsBlink (talk) 17:20, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

there are more one = [[fi:Malline:Prettytable]]

Thanks a lot. OffsBlink (talk) 22:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for put the interwikis, I asked for other administrators in other wikis, I'm brazilian from pt.wiki and I always creat articles based in en.wiki.

Thanks a lot and excuse-me for the disturb

OffsBlink (talk) 23:25, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

navbox

It's good except... county boroughs weren't part of the administrative county. The term "associated county boroughs" is usually used, but where to put it... either at the top Former administrative county of XYZ and associated county boroughs, or simply have Associated county boroughs rather than County boroughs. Either way it makes it a bit ugly... Lozleader (talk) 20:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

You might be suprised by the total number of districts that existed between 1894 and 1974, especially in the larger counties. There were a lot of mergers and changes in the 1930s. It might be better to do templates that provide "snapshots" of all districts existing at 1894 and 1974. MRSC • Talk 05:06, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Another idea is to do it by "review area" such as {{LGA1963}}. What would probably work best is to take a different approach and do an article similar to History of local government districts in Middlesex (1894—1965) for each county. This could be complemented by a series of maps. MRSC • Talk 11:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

As far as the county boroughs are concerned (and I see you have added "associated" now) there are only AFAIK two that were in more than one county for a while, Bristol and Stockport (as listed in the schedule to the 1888 Act). Presumably they could appear on more than one template... i quite like the idea of creating more articles like the Middlesex one; could take years though! Lozleader (talk) 19:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Rollback

Thanks for granting me rollback rights - I'm very grateful. I wasn't aware it was available to mere mortals but I will use the force wisely in the continuing fight against the dark side of the wiki, Obi wan. By the way, I was on the sixth floor of the Maxwell today looking down across the Irwell and ,as well as the usual ducks swimming around, there was a big black cormorant diving and then standing on a fallen tree to dry its wings. Twenty or thirty years ago it would heve been dead in no time if it had dived in the river there - not that there would have been any fish to catch. Richerman (talk) 22:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

The Irwell is looking pretty good there apart from accumulated litter and the odd supermarket trolley. I've seen cormorants at The Cliff but I was surpised to see one so close to the city centre. As for Peel Park, it looks like I'll have to create a stub for the "real" Peel Park now, especially as it's thought to be the world's first public park. Maybe that will be a good one for DYK. Richerman (talk) 08:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Liverpool City Districts

I removed additions to this section on the Liverpool article for the third time. I assume they are correct as they stand but do we have a citation for the info that's there? I don't want to be reverting edits when my own knowledge is not verified. Thanks. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 06:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to trouble you, but

Would it be possible for you to cast your eye over the contributions to Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-06-22 United Kingdom today from MickMacNee, and let me know what you think, particularly with respect to the comments he makes directed at me? If you can't or would rather not, that's all right.  DDStretch  (talk) 18:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply on my talk page. I've replied there, and I see the editor is now being inflammatory on Talk:Wales, even though the proposal will have the effect of bringing about a large degree of consistency amongst the relevant articles.  DDStretch  (talk) 16:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Image question

Hi, I can't work out whether we're allowed to use images with this creative commons tag. So are we? Nev1 (talk) 03:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Just sticking my nose in. I think probably not. The killer is "Non-Commercial. You may not use this work for commercial purposes." Mr Stephen (talk) 08:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah well, I was afraid of that. Never mind. Thanks anyway. Nev1 (talk) 08:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Wigan

Hi Jza, just a quick question regarding the 'Area's and suburbs of Wigan' panel at the bottom of articles like Poolstock. Are we to include only the areas which constitute the town itself, or are we to introduce areas such as Orrell and Ince-in-Makerfield which serve as suburbs of the town but are Metropolitan Borough of Wigan areas?. Thanks. Man2 (talk) 13:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jza, thanks for the answer. Maybe we should change the template titles to simply 'Areas of Wigan' and omit the use of the word 'suburb'. Area's like Poolstock are integral areas of the town so none of the places listed can be described as suburbs. If we include 'suburb' we would need to include areas such as Winstanley, Ince and Orrell. What you think?. Thanks. Man2 (talk) 09:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jza, have you had any thoughts on the above? Thanks. Man2 (talk) 09:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi again Jza, sorry to keep leaving messages regarding the same point !. If you are unhappy about removing 'suburbs' from the template then we should of course get a consensus on the point (I by no means intended to imply that removing the phrase was obviously the correct thing to do). I just feel that inclusion of the phrse 'suburb' would open a 'can of worms'. Undoubtedly Ince, Winstanley and Orrell are the mains suburbs of Wigan, however including them, we could well need to start including Abram, Platt Bridge etc etc and before long the template is simply a list of areas of the town and Met Borough areas. A suburb cannot exist within the boundries of the town itself, hence the reason the Met Borough areas in the integrated conurbation around the town serve as the town's suburbs. Sorry again for a longish post. Thanks. Man2 (talk) 13:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Note of vandalism

Hello - just to let you know, I appeared to have received two messages from you concerning the Greater Manchester and Anfield articles, and how my edits might possibly have been construed as vandalism. However, to be perfectly honest with you, I myself have never made any edits to those pages - if you wish to check my contributions (I'm fairly unfamiliar with wikipedia - is that possible?), you'll see my focus lies in geekdom such as comic books, television shows etc. I can tell you with the utmost honesty that I have never once edited either of those pages.

However, I received those messages before I signed in on my usual account - did you send your messages to this IP address, as opposed to my user account? If so, it is possible someone using this computer might have vandalised those articles - I have a younger brother who uses this computer fairly frequently, and is prone to mischief. If that's what happened, then I apolagise and will resolve to see this matter does not take place again.

Please get back to me whenver you find convenient,

Iwan Berry (talk) 14:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Flag behind globe

The chap who had put it in appears to have put it into a hell of a lot of articles.....I personally don't use any tools or what not, do you happen to have any you could use to undo them? Narson (talk) 19:23, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

River Dene

Jza, the River Dene was lost; it could be anywhere now. :lol: --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:MERSEYSIDE

I think you should give WP:UKGEO a notice about User:Jza84/Merseyside? There must be more people out there prepared to support. Perhaps even add something to the announcements board? Nev1 (talk) 20:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Kirkcaldy article

i'm just about to wrap up my extensive revamp of the Kirkcaldy article soon after two months, although i plan to still do some things before i finish like: adding area info to the info box; adding some more info to the geograph section and maintenance to two history sub-sections

i have tried to produce a good article that in particular has a strong introduction and history section with appropriately placed pictures, some background history of education and religion and many varied sources as references. could the article be good enough, to try and go for a FA or better still, an upgrade of some sort. Kilnburn (talk) 23:22, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

You block me is that right

whats wrong with the sub heading i added. If i had to do that to the USA page it would be fine and you would keep wouldnt you. --78.150.164.93 (talk) 13:01, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Murrays' Mills

I have put some source material at [1]. I guess we are looking for a basic floor plan showing the location of the main buildings/features of the complex. Thanks for your help Pit-yacker (talk) 22:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I would be inclined to suggest this one which shows the complex as it was towards the end of the 20th century. Thanks for your help Pit-yacker (talk) 19:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

First Bus companies

Hi James! I finally managed to get round to being WP:BOLD and remove the routes and fares sections from the First Bus companies articles, as per the consensus on Talk:First Leeds. I only had to revert a couple of reversions and one message on my talkpage by Cluebot. The First Manchester article could do with a checkup as I noticed some details were referring to future events, though were actually past events from 2006, one I converted to past tense. I have put the articles I edited on my watchlist and will now wait for the inevitable reverts from some users, even though I feel my Edit summary was quite plain in its meaning. There are other bus companies that need the same treatment, but I will wait until any problems arising from this round of edits is sorted before I deal with those. I would like to bounce a question off you, as a second opinion for dealing with some local bus route articles related to the First Glasgow company. There are several articles listed under Category:First Glasgow such as First Glasgow Route 20. I feel these are totally unnecessary on Wikipedia as per Wikipedia:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory under item #3 - Directories. Would these need to go for Afd, which is a process I am unfamiliar with, or could they simply be blanked and made into redirects to the First Glasgow article? Which is a much simpler job! :) Richard Harvey (talk) 01:32, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello there! Thanks for the contact. In short, I'm with you on this - I think these "route" articles should certainly be merged. This isn't just per your rationale, but per the policy you cited. I think WikiTravel is more suitable for that material. Ultimately, I'd just ask myself "would Encarta/Britannica have these articles on their sites?" -- I think not! I hope that helps, --Jza84 |  Talk  02:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I'll do the redirects a bit later today. I've just worked my way through all the companies listed under 'A' & 'B' in the Category:Bus_operators_in_England and removed route and ticket info, its surprising how much advertising has been fed into the articles for these companies, But having not seen my bed for some 30 hours I need to rest what is left of my frazzled brain for a while! :) Richard Harvey (talk) 02:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Could you follow up on this Talk:Burnley & Pendle message please. It may help to prevent a problem occurring? I have noted some articles which do seem to fall within the lines of WP:SOAP. I have tagged them accordingly but left it for an admin to verify the criteria of them such as Coastal Coaches, Clintona Minibuses and Cavendish Motor Services. If would appreciate some feedback on if that tag is appropriate. Richard Harvey (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I seem to have received a threat on my talk page, which I do not appreciate, so I will stop sorting the bus companies to prevent any further problems. Richard Harvey (talk) 17:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Image:South_Yorkshire_outline_map_with_UK.png

Hi there. I'm just dropping you a quick line to act if you can provide me with the original source for Image:South_Yorkshire_outline_map_with_UK.png without the heavy black outline, for which you are listed as author, and if possible, the maps for Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire as well (although JeremyA is listed as uploader for these. I am hoping to create a map of the Sheffield City Region as defined by The Northern Way document, which may be used on both the SC and TNW articles, as well as being used as a base for a map on 0114 dialing code and S postcode area. L.J.Skinner^{wot|I did} 17:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

re: Our mutual friend

Gracias for the note — and for the swift block. Best regards, Kevin Forsyth (talk) 12:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Jack forbes

I see you granted an unblock of User talk:Jack forbes , you do know the original block was for sockpuppetry and harassment of another user? Also, don't think you unblocked him yet, only that you gave the unblock granted template, lastly did you check in with the blocking admin, I think there was some quite lengthy history to the decision to block indef. Cheers. MBisanz ^talk 01:23, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I think Jza84 did this with a kind heart. I'm coming in here as User:Jack forbes seems to have apologised to me beforehand too, as an IP here on my Talk. I don't normally 'get involved' with things like this, but I will here. I often don't see the point in blocks for bad-language and disagreements - admin should be able to work with people without resorting to it. I expect blocks rarely work in that capacity, too - surely the arguments are stronger than the blocks to most people? Most people aren't naturally aggressive – it’s the points at stake that are the issue.

An exception has to be sock puppetry, though. Looking through Jack's other Joe Deagan history (is that account blocked too – see here?), he did make an edit when crossing over into 'Jack forbes' territory, here. He used Joe Deacon to remove 'de facto' from the national anthems in Scotland, while he was part of the 'de facto'/official debate in Wales. The ‘game’ that is often played with these UK issues, IMO, is forging a cross-consistency and cross-consensus across each of the countries, so I personally feel this was a moment of full-on sock-using. Looking back, there was a point in Wales were 3 out of the 6 or so people in the Welsh national anthem discussion were using socks!

I would like to see Jack officially promise that he won’t use sock puppets again, and also promise some of the other things Jza84 suggested - he has to make the promises himself though: they can't be ‘supposed’. So far he has just apologised for feeling "immediately ashamed" for using language that was actually quite crafted (if he refers to the aggressive Glaswegian ‘headcase’ impression!). I thought his 'I was drunk' excuse was a far better excuse than his now suggesting it was a moments madness! Either way - he was frustrated with someone, and lost it. Many have been there. but he has said at some point (I've lost the place) that using Joe Deagon is not classed as sock puppetry - maybe this could be addressed?

So, for what it is worth, this editor has no qualms about him coming back now, despite being opposed to what, in my own eyes, have always been single-issue edits from him. It seems it was as Joe Deacon where he mostly edited outside of the 'Scotland/British' field – I sure he can do it all as Jack Forbes. He would look a lot more authentic to the likes of me if he did! People are entitled to another chance, and the ultimate blocks should come if they use that up, I feel. It is certainly better than them creating a new account when angry about being indefinitely blocked, or banned. The main thing I would say, though - he has to be less sensitive – and he would probably agree. If he calls himself a 'nationalist', as he has done unashamedly at times, and edits solely in the ‘field’, he has no real right to take such great offense at someone suggesting he is editing as one – that’s just life, and it's to be expected sometimes, despite 'AGF'. He has to ‘roll with the punches’ a little more if he is going to carry on in the UK and Irish articles, for sure – they can get a bit heavy at times, the matters involved being as contentious as they are. --Matt Lewis (talk) 03:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I was the blocking admin. I've added some comments and what I think must happen for the final step of unblocking to take place: explicit statements acknowleging the conditions for unblocking and giving an undertaking to abide by them would be best made before the actual unblocking happened.  DDStretch  (talk) 06:29, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi guys! I was unsure of the reaction when I made the committment to unblock Mr Forbes, but, I made a bold decision here, and, although I'm no liberal to policy offenders and bad faith editors, I have seen Jack Forbes be an overall net positive to the project during his time with us. This all said, I've taken on board your comments and will take these "conditions" to Jack Forbes now. I trust that will satisfy any concerns you may have. --Jza84 |  Talk  18:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Jack is unblocked (yet). He's still unable to edit. GoodDay (talk) 18:49, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yorkshire football clubs

I'm unclear as to the logic at work here. There are categories for East Riding, North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire and one for Yorkshire as a whole. Either the four 'compass points' Yorkshires are subcats below an 'umbrella' overall Yorkshire cat - or the overall Yorkshire category should be emptied and deleted. Have you considered raising it at WP:CFD for a wider view? Cheers. DrFrench (talk) 01:32, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

How odd - I've just done precisely hat was suggested! L.J.Skinner^{wot|I did} 22:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Burns Mall

This is just my opinion, but protecting a page with a prod template is bad form. Makes it hard to object to the template and remove it if you can't edit the page, and I don't think a single blocked sockpuppet deprodding it justifies the protection. --UsaSatsui (talk) 06:01, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

• I understand the reason why you protected it. I just don't think it's right to jump and protect a page based on one incident, particularly when the page has a tag on it inviting people to remove it if they disagree with something. I would like you to please unprotect the page. If not, I'll just remove the prod myself and probably bring it to AFD --UsaSatsui (talk) 22:44, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Actually, forget that. I added the semiprotect template. If someone wants to contest, they can do it on the talk page. --UsaSatsui (talk) 22:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Jza84. I won't let you down. Jack forbes (talk) 19:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Yorkshirian

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. As a consequence of editor conduct and attempts to use Wikipedia as a battleground, Yorkshirian (talk · contribs) is banned from Wikipedia for a period of one year. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 10:06, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Help with image request?

Hi Jza84

I don't know if you can help me - I am a fairly novice Wikipedian and tend to concentrate on translations from French to English. However, I got slightly caught up in a recent discussion on British people, and specifically on [this] image which I know you originally created.

I have been trying to get an image of Kelly Holmes released so that I could edit the composite image to make it more representative, as per the discussion page, and have been exchanging emails with her publicist. But I've run into problems because her publicist clearly doesn't really understand what Wikipedia is, and I don't have the experience to explain it! I wonder could you do something? I can send you details of our "conversation", if that would help. JaneVannin (talk) 07:44, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Kilmarnock Re Done

Ye you are right. Sorry for any distrupption i have caused. this is all i done wanted to make articles better but the nformation got deleted. and the articles that got deleted i put on microsoft word but its just not the same. Bye :(--78.148.79.97 (talk) 10:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Kilmarnock redone

One Question

How do you know my name and its just a habbit and you said on the talk scotland page they are doing this to England Wales & Northern ireland (they was adding in subheadings and they was being kept) and they said go and do it and then i done it and got blocked for it. If they are doing it to the other 3 why cant scotland be done. --78.148.124.171 (talk) 14:36, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Kilmarnock redone

i understand. I think this is a bit weird. Is this someone i know is this a stalker. I DONT KNOW. You know my name who know my age but i dont think you know where i live tho. The only way ill stop is if the scotland page gets protected because that seems to my most eddited point so far. So i would probiably portect scotland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.124.171 (talk) 15:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Kilmarnock redone

Sorry for annoying wikipedia. Ill just use what the site is for reading information. By the way is Shirley Manson Scottish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.124.171 (talk) 15:19, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Category sort

I have made a small change on your userpage ,so that the category is sorted properly instead of "U" for "User:" . Hope you won't mind.-- Tinu Cherian - 07:39, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Nimbley's actions today, and checkusering accounts

He seems to be editing still, despite saying otherwise at one point. See contributions of this anon IP user and in particular the addition (deleted by myself) to the Nimbley66 page. He had one edit to Scotland reverted today. So, I think we need to consider taking it to the next level.

On a related matter, there has been activity today on Scotland that I suspect comes from various sockpuppets, and something similar was done on Talk:Wales. I think some serious checkusering needs to be done: User:MinYinChao is highly dubious, and I have my doubts about User:Malarious as well, who has been active on Scotland after an anon IP vandal was blocked, doing similar edits. If it were me, I'd do a large-scale check of all vandalising editors on those pages, but I suspect the people doing the checkusering might think we were fishing and refuse it. What do you think? (I've been in communication with Snowded about it.)  DDStretch  (talk) 17:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment

I have replied to your comment on my page. I will state right now that I do not find your tone acceptable, and you are hardly giving me the warm welcome I was led to expect. MinYinChao (talk) 17:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Been thinking

I've been thinking over the past few weeks, especially since you became an administrator. Admins have to expect some abuse, and you're getting your fair share.

What I feel I want to say is this: I joined wikipedia just to make a few edits to a couple of articles that were at that time close to my heart. One of those happened to be an article within the GM Project's remit, and so you contacted me, asking if I'd like to join the project, which I did. And to be perfectly honest, without that anchor of the GM Project I'd have left wikipedia long ago, and I expect there may be others who feel the same. Helping to build this encyclopedia can be a lonely furrow to plough, but your generous support makes that task seem less daunting. To summarise, don't let the bastards grind you down. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Nimbley et al

The first sockmaster you mentioned seems well dealt with in my opinion (here you could file a request under RFCU if you wish, but seeing as most (all?) of the editors are blocked and no newer ones are re-appearing, it may by turned down) but the second is a little vague. Could you give me a few of the IPs, and I'll see what I can compare by diffs. Rudget (logs) 15:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Has it all been sorted? I have received no reply. Rudget (logs) 12:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

dates

Hi, saw your comment at MOSNUM talk. Unsure what exactly you're seeking. Is it a monobook that delinks full dates? That is apparent from the title of your comment. Tony (talk) 08:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, well, well

A while ago I was wondering who Yorkshirian (talk · contribs) was before he took on that user name. It was obvious from his early edits that he'd been around a bit. I trawled around his stamping grounds and came across Daddy Kindsoul (talk · contribs · block log) who'd added some clubs to Category:Yorkshire football clubs around 5 Dec 07, example. I found that Daddy Kindsoul had been banned for sock abuse following an arbcom case, see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Deathrocker (he changed his username). There was a certain similarity in that good work was mixed in with poor behaviour and they had a similar style of editing, but Daddy Kindsoul worked a lot on music, which didn't seem Y's style. I couldn't get a really good link between the pair, so I dropped it. Tonight I rediscovered that Y admitted here and here to two previous accounts, CalcioSalvo (talk · contribs) and SalvoCalcio (talk · contribs).

Check Daddy Kindsoul's block log here. He was blocked on 22 June 2007 for a month. SalvoCalcio (talk · contribs) started editing on 23 June 2007, and edited for a month until 22 July 2007 when he lost his password. He created CalcioSalvo (talk · contribs) on 25 July 2007. Daddy Kindsoul was unblocked around 23 July and started editing; compare CalcioSalvo's edit rate (with Daddy Kindsoul unblocked) to SalvoCalcio's edit rate (with Daddy Kindsoul blocked). For the next week or so it tends to be either Daddy Kindsoul or CalcioSalvo editing, never both. There are a few occasions where one edited shortly before the other. On 2 September 2007 Daddy Kindsoul was blocked for a week. There was a bit of activity from CalcioSalvo, then it stopped forever on 9 September 2007. On 18 September 20 Daddy Kindsoul was blocked for a year. We know that Daddy Kindsoul was creating abusive socks. On 22 October 2007 Daddy Kindsoul was banned for multiple sock abuse. On 14:34, 24 October 2007, Yorkshirian made his first edit.

Daddy Kindsoul edited a lot of football articles, as did CS/SC. Yorkshirian didn't edit much in the way of footy, I don't think, which was partly what threw me. Daddy Kindsoul's interest in heavy metal didn't really chime with Yorkshirian's interest in Catholicism. Do you think the accounts are related? Mr Stephen (talk) 23:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Re our mutual friend. I'm seeing some similarities and some differences. Nothing that I can really get a grip on, though, either way. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 23:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Pendle witch trials

I decided to bite the bullet today, and spent quite a bit of time (hopefully) finishing off the Pendle witch trials article, before submitting it to FAC.

You expressed an interest in the article in the past, so without wishing to influence you in any way, perhaps you'd take a look at its FAC nomination, and let me know what you think? Even if you don't want to pass an opinion at the FAC, your feedback would be useful. I kind of felt that it would be good to put a stake in the ground, to guide future UK witchcraft trial articles. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. I'm feeling a bit nervous and protective of this article; it'll be quite a relief to get to the end of the nomination, hopefully with the right result. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 13:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

various "British" issues

Look you are declared Unionist, I am a declared Nationalist. Both of us are transparent about that, both of us have attempted to create reason (despite differences) on the various pages. You tend to be more sensitive to nationalist edits, me to unionist edits but we both use citations. Having both is good news for the Wikipedia. So shall we just call halt and show some mutual respect? I was really surprised to see you appear to lend credence to name calling on the template page. --Snowded (talk) 01:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response and listed the issues you have. Lets look at them

• I think you jumped to quickly on our multi-coloured editor and I moved to defend him. He makes a huge contribution on several pages and I felt he deserved better. If you check the subsequent edit history moving towards a norm and getting to one map got my support. My view was a little more tolerance should have been given. I withdrew the bullying comment as excessive at the time.
• I am not arguing for unsourced comments in respect of Welsh language names. I say several times that legitimate challenge would justify citation. My argument was simply that it should not be required, when it was not for other languages.
• No you have not taken a hard line unionist position, any more than I have take a hard line nationalist one. However your edits and the things you pick up on evidence that position. Some of this is just the things that don't matter to you like "part" and "country" while they do matter to others.
• Having fought hard for British Isles, and for retaining reference to "part of the UK" I think you should use that as evidence of good faith on my part to reach NPOV.
• If you make remarks (like the recent edit) which appear dismissive of the official status of welsh as a language (a fact) or that wales is a country (a fact) then you must expect that people will push back.

We are probably both running very low on trust so I suggest we stop - maybe ask dddstretch (for whom I have a lot of respect) intervene? --Snowded (talk) 01:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Well I did my best to respond to the specific points you raised and in return I get a series of accusations about being a single issue editor and some rather dubious claims from your about your independence, objectivity etc. etc. OK I get the point you don't want to engage or resolve such issues and instead wish to focus on your definition of content. Fine, until the next encounter.--Snowded (talk) 03:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Rollback on Scottish Exhibition and Conference Centre

Hi,

You recently rolled back some edits made by an IP editor on this article, which consisted of adding section headers and swapping the image. These don't look like they were unproductive edits - can you explain? For now I've restored them and begun work on that version of the article. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:16, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Dates

I'm curious as to why you are removing ['s around dates. I'm assuming that as an established editor and administrator you know more than I do on this matter, as I've always assumed it to be proper to link these dates in the method that you are now removing. Regards, NcSchu_(Talk) 15:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response; that explains my confusion with the matter. I apologize, then, for reverting your edit to Christian Bale in which I replaced the brackets. NcSchu_(Talk) 18:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Feedback, please

Hello. I've just joined WikiProject UK geography and would appreciate some feedback on some articles I've worked on before I go much further. They're here: Abbotsley, Hatley and Waresley. If you can spare a few minutes to have a look, I'd be really grateful. Thanks very much. Bogbumper (talk) 19:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me for butting in, but I think they're not at all bad. Personally I hate those templates at the top of articles, and I think you should remove them. Other than that my first suggestion would be to make sure all the articles follow the WP:UKCITIES guidelines in terms of the ordering of sections. Great work so far! --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, Jza84. My natural tendency is to write concisely but I can afford to include more detail here, I think... I'll check out those sources, too - I've used British History before but the others look pretty handy. But books are the way forward, it seems :o) Do you mean the infobox, Malleus Fatuorum? I've been referring to the guidelines a lot so hopefully I'm not too far off on the order of sections. Thanks for your help. Bogbumper (talk) 07:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Image moves

Thanks for moving the images, I've been meaning to do it myself but haven't got round to it yet. Richerman (talk) 13:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Taking photos is the easy bit, the writing's the hard work :-) I see a bot has just removed one from the City of Salford article, have you updated the links for them all? Richerman (talk) 13:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Appley Bridge

Hi, Just looked at your edits of the Appley Bridge page. I've lived in AB for over 20 years in two locations, about 200m apart. First location was in the West Lancs part of AB in Lancashire county / Lancashire admin boundary. However for the last 10 years have lived in the Wigan Metropolitan Borough part of AB, which is within the Lancashire county / Greater Manchester admin boundary. In the first 10 years my bins were emptied by West Lancs council and that's who I paid my council tax to. In the second ten years my bins are emptied by Wigan Council and I pay my taxes to them. The line that delineates the area generally follows the Calico brook as it crosses the area in a roughly top-right to bottom-left route (provided you have North at the top!),apart from the Millbank estate where the route was moved slightly south in the late 70's. Hope this helps; there is definately a Wigan/Great Manchester part - I live there.

Also why dumb down "Etymology" to "History"? I see no history there, it's all etymology to me!

Wikipeebee (talk) 08:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

thanks Appley Bridge

thanks for your comments; I will try a find a citation to quote regarding the split. Didn't intend to infer malice, sorry if it came over as that. With regard to the header I han't realised there was such a structured guidance, but I suppose it's good that there is - "History" is fine in that context. regards Wikipeebee (talk) 07:29, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Your honest opinon

I've become a little bit obsessed with the story of Hannah Beswick, the Manchester Mummy. I'm waiting for some info on how she was embalmed, who did it, and whether it was legal at that time, but the article will likely still be quite short even when that's added. A credible GA candidate do you think?

I know your interest is primarily in the geography of GM, but there are so many other little articles that (I think) add colour to the project, that we could maybe tickle up to GA? The Hanging Bridge is maybe another example. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism warning

I've just given a final warning to user:Gemstar140 who seems to use the account only for vandalism. The article I'm watching that they keep targetting is Black death but looking through the contributions list it's all vandalism and nothing useful. Could you keep an eye on them and block if necessary? The contributions list is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gemstar140 Richerman (talk) 12:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah well, he got blocked anyway once Rudget and another admin got on the case. Anyway, I thought you might be interested in the rather useful website I just found at http://www.sci-eng.mmu.ac.uk/manchester_stone/default.asp which I used in the Collyhurst article to add some stuff about the quarry and "Collyhurst sandstone" which I keep coming across references to. It's from our very own MMU as well! Richerman (talk) 16:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Its strange how one admin will block a vandalism only account and yet another will not! See:- AIV Diff. Richard Harvey (talk) 09:19, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem is that there is too much pussy-footing around with accounts that are simply being used for vandalism because people have the idea that it is possible that they will "reform" at some point and become good editors. Often, it merely prolongs the messes that others have to clear up afterwards, and the few cases where it doesn't don't have benefits that are outweighed by the costs of allowing clear vandal-only accounts to continue for some more time. It also fails to factor into the considerations the number of good editors who give up on wikipedia because of the extent to which too liberal a view about vandalism causes problems. Of course, if one raises this, there is some cry of "unfair" and a demand for evidence that is more stringent than the evidence which accompanies the idea that there are enough vandals who reform to make a easy-going approach the only one one should adopt. The reaction you saw on AIV comes about from a too-literal interpretation of the system of warnings, etc, and fails to take into account that sometimes judgment is required that doesn't robotically adhere to some set of rules which can be exploited by vandals gaming the system. I've seen this more, and more kinds of issues like this, since becoming an admin. myself. (Sorry for the interjection here.)  DDStretch  (talk) 10:23, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Multi Area Agreement

I wasn't sure if these were the same thing as Local Area Agreements. According to The Law Society Gazette, 8 May 2008, they are actually different things, although along similar lines. With more reading, they could form a section in Local government in England, perhaps being spun out to a separate article with enough content. MRSC • Talk 15:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Removing all the recent UK work

You gave no warning about that. It was a hugely insulting thing to do in my opinion. People are working together here giving their time for free. How can you justify that? I know you are very involved too - should you be doing it? I'm not happy at with it at all. Yes we can use Talk too - but you have wasted a lot of good people's time.--Matt Lewis (talk) 21:22, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't argue with you Jza84, on the multiculturalism thing. My country is certainly multicultured. GoodDay (talk) 23:52, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm just happy the 'multicultural' debate is taking place at the United Kingdom's talk-page. Truly, I'm content. GoodDay (talk) 00:05, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Merseyside wikiproject

Hi Jza84

Just thought I'd mention that I'd be interested in joining the Merseyside project if it ever gets set up. I don't know much about the area but I'd be happy to do some of the more menial tasks like setting up templates, categories, etc. I'd also be interested in a Cumbria-Lancs project too. Hope all is well with the administrating. —PolishName 20:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I've put my name down on your Merseyside project page, hope you get some more interest soon. About the GM portal. What are your views? Rudget seems a little resilient, but I don't blame him; he must have put a lot of time into the NWE portal. But I still think that new portals will encourage new editors to get involved with WikiProjects and therefore increase the number of F/GAs within these areas. I've explained my ideas in more detail in a post on the WP:GM talk page.

Hope your administration gets a little less dull, I'm sure you're doing a great job. And as it's a 'thanksless task', here's a little thanks:

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		For all your work on WikiProject Greater Manchester and your role as an admin, I, Polishname, award you this barnstar. —PolishName 11:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

All the best. —PolishName 11:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I did wonder about the overlap myself; I'll go through the draft and try balance it out a little. I was also unsure about the 'Selected biography' box, but I did wonder if a 'Selected city/town' box would be more appropriate. As far as the 'Selected pictures' are concerned, we certainly don't have any featured pictures, but I was going through some on the Commons the other day, and there are some pretty nice ones there. —PolishName 11:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Rollback

Thanks man... Will use it wisely. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 00:55, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Royton UDC coat of arms

Hi. I had never come across this fine example of home-made civic heraldry before. Any idea what it all means? Some of it looks like it is taken from family arms of some description, although they don't seem to be those of the holders of the manor as shown at [2]. Lozleader (talk) 09:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'm partially answering my own question.... According to this by the Royton Local History Society the crest (ie the bull's head with a ducal coronet around its neck at the top) and the motto were taken from the arms of the Radcliffe_Baronets who lived at Royton Hall, and I have been able to confirm this in Burke and Fox-Davies. Interestingly, the leaflet has an earlier version of the coat of arms as used by the predecessor local board on its cover, and it is clear a number of errors had crept in over the years. Most striking is the fact that a giant bird of prey appeared attacking the boat, and a severed hand was added! I suspect these "evolved" from the sails and flag of the ship, as poor quality copy followeed poor quality copy. Lozleader (talk) 11:08, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I think our messages might have crossed there... You are right, most of these devices were locally adopted, often originating in a seal-engraver's imagination, and so little info can be found. Royton's were better than many I've seen: I once lived in a town that displayed a matress on its shield! Lozleader (talk) 11:35, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Boundary Park

Hi, thank you for your detective work on the location. However, why have you unlinked the dates? The purpose of linking in the form 30 July 2008 is so that it displays in accordance with user display preferences. UK pref users see '30 July 2008' while US pref users see 'July 30, 2008'. I agree that isolated years should not be linked but it is good practice to link full dates for this reason. Smile a While (talk) 01:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Rollback

Hi Jza! Thanks for granting this to me; looks very useful. I'll be very careful and cautious with my use of it - I'll certainly be reading the guides and making some test edits on the sandbox page first! I'll give it a try on Saturday when I have a free day. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 18:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Boundary Park

Hello there! I can assure you I'm as equally pleased resolving the location issue! This had been bothering me for a while! I would not have guessed it's wholly in Oldham proper, but I've seen it in black-and-white now.

Re dates, you ask a valid question - one that I asked when I saw such a change. The Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) changed about a month/three weeks ago, meaning that years and dates no longer require wikilinks. Key dates (emphasis), or articles about time or calander systems are still expected to have these linked, but in most topics, it should be avoided. I only found out because of a FA I was involved with recently. --Jza84 |  Talk  12:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for this constructive response. I guess that none of the dates in this article would be described as key dates so I'll leave things be. Smile a While (talk) 22:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Chesterfield

Hi again Jza84. Can you explain this edit? Is there a policy for unlinking dates in certain circumstances which I'vce missed? L.J.Skinner^{wot|I did} 16:43, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

GAN: Royton

Hi. I just wanted to let you know that Royton has passed GA. Great work! -epicAdam (talk) 18:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Oldham Werneth railway station factoid

Hi! Spotted the 1-in-27 gradient factoid you added ... I think I can find a steeper one. Will have to go through all my railway books, but I believe the London Blackfriars to City Thameslink stretch of the Thameslink route, newly constructed in 1987/88 in connection with the Snow Hill Tunnel reopening, is either 1 in 24 or 1 in 25. (It's certainly ridiculously steep - good job it's only a few hundred metres!) If I can find a source confirming it, I'll amend the wording to "one of the steepest". Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Royton

I've replied (sorry it's late!). ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 09:19, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

British Empire

Hey there. That Snowded chap is up to the same things at the British Empire that he was at United Kingdom - changing long-standing text [3] and not discussing first on the talk page. I've told him several times that I'm not permanently opposed to his changes, but that he needs to provide more sources and we need to reach a consensus first because I dispute that they are consensus in academia. Any help would be appreciated! (Not to argue for my point, just to ask him to use the talk page). Thanks. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 12:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

It's OK actually, we found a compromise. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 12:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Greater Glasgow

i have submitted a proposal for the wikiproject Greater Glasgow here and if you are interested please add your name to the support section?Andrew22k (talk) 18:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Crompton Local Board

1863: fortunately whenever an area adopted the Local Government Act 1858 it was gazetted, and the notice of adoption was dated October 20, 1863:

---

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT, 1858. NOTICE OF ADOPTION OF ACT BY CROMPTON, LANCASHIRE.

WHEREAS the Local Government Act, 1858, has been adopted by the township of Crompton, in the county of Lancaster.
And notice of such adoption has been duly given, and the other requirements of the said Act have been complied with:
Now, therefore, I, as one of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State, do hereby give notice, that the Local Government Act, 1858,
has been adopted in the hereinbefore-named township of Crompton; and that the said Act has the force of law within such township.

Given under my hand this 20th day of October, 1863.

(Signed) G. Grey.
Home Office, Whitehall.

---

First time I've ever seen the term "hereinbefore"!

Lozleader (talk) 11:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Kirkcaldy

Thought you may be interested that the tags regarding copyediting and citations on the Kirkcaldy article were removed (I've replaced them), in conjunction with a tag being placed on the discussion page for nomination as a good article. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

thankspam

Thanks to everyone who participated in my RfA, regardless of their !vote. I have withdrawn the nomination as a failure at 19 supports, 45 opposes, and 9 neutral statements. As has been written and sung, you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need — and what I need is to go back to working on our shared project. Not everyone has to be an admin; there is a role for each of us. After reflection, I feel I don't have the temperament to secure community consensus as an admin at any point, and I will not be applying again in the future — and hey, that's all right, 'cause I stay true to the philosophy that adminship is no big deal: I tried, I failed, and now I'll return to doing what I've always done. I have an extremely strong belief in the consensus process, and the consensus was clear. I will be devoting my energies to volunteering at MedCab and working up a complete series of articles on the short stories of Ernest Hemingway, among lord knows what else. Thanks again to everyone who spared the time to weigh in on this one. It was made in better faith than it probably seemed. Mr. IP 《Defender of Open Editing》 14:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for !voting. I didn't mean to violate POINT — I considered and rejected the possibility that I was doing it — but it looks like a lot of users in good standing disagree, so I am going to shut up and take the criticism. Cheers, and hope to see you 'round. Mr. IP 《Defender of Open Editing》 14:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Seaforth/Kenny Everett

I notice you and your cronie Kitchen Knife are being smart arses again by changing edits on Liverpool,,,,furthermore because I happen to have edited on the article. In this instance Seaforth maybe in Sefton that is not questioned. Kenny Everett was on a documentary a few months ago of how fond he was of John Lennon as they were all 'from Liverpool'. Your intense scrutiny over these borderline districts is pathetic. Should someone else come along in the future and challenge you I hope you are not as juvenile as you are here. I take issue because of your continued interference. Does Wikipedia not have a vast array of topics that you constantly pop back to Liverpool to mess around? Dmcm2008 (talk) 23:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but from my position on the sidelines it appears that you're asking Jza84 (and others) to step aside so as to allow you to add your personal opinions and unsubstantiated "facts" to whichever "Liverpool" articles you take a fancy to. And you're throwing the word "juvenile" around? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

You are entitled to your opinion...I dare say any edits I make are weighed with personal opinion ie I am passionate about Liverpool (and for those that do not count places like Seaforth as neither Liverpool or A suburb of Liverpool - I am passionate about Liverpool and surrounding districts and towns). So i object to the way in which some editors are behaving. It is clear to me JZA wishes to play games. To suggest Kenny Everett is not a Liverpudlian is utter rubbish but I agree Seaforth WAS Lancashire when he was born. So be it. However the other edit like on Waterloo shows a problem JZA has with the Liverpool area. I am also well aware of your pally status with JZA so if you come to Jzas aid that might be expected. Dmcm2008 (talk) 00:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

You are blocked for 31 hours in accordance with WP:BLOCK and WP:NPA. Do not return here or anywhere else on Wikipedia with abusive comments please. If you do so again, I won't hesitate to prevent you from making disruptive and abusive edits for a longer period. You've been warned that there is an electric fence - it is now turned on, high voltage. Reflect and reform, or go away - the choice is yours. --Jza84 |  Talk  01:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems that these charges of croneyism have become endemic, and I am frankly tired of them. Jza84 and I have not always agreed, and there are some things that we will very likely never agree on. But we have been able to do something that I hope you will also be able to do Dmcm2008; to discuss, present our points of view, and then to reach a reasonable compromise. That is surely the essence of wikipedia's collaborative nature. It makes for a far more pleasant and productive environment when you can work with others instead of looking for enemies behind every rock. We're all here because we want to make wikipedia better, not because we want to do down Liverpool, for instance. And to suggest otherwise really does you no credit. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 01:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I am my own crony. The point is that in order for wikipedia to be consistent we have to define everything and for this purpose Liverpool has the very tight meaning of the borough, If you look on the Liverpool page it say "Liverpool is a city and metropolitan borough of Merseyside, England" so when ever you use the term on Wikipedia it has to conform to that definition.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 14:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Nimbley

Do you want to take a look at these edits [4] to see if they meet the requirements you set for Kristopher Nimbley? The IP address and editing is similar to his. Thanks, Alanraywiki (talk) 17:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Shaw and Crompton again

I've had a first run through the article and made a few changes. Hopefully I haven't made too much of a mess of it.

One thing I noticed is that you're using both the {{cite}} family and {{citation}}. The MoS says that you should use one or the other, not both in the same article.[5] --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

That's a new one on me! I hadn't noticed there was a difference! Infact, I can't understand why there is two different systems! That said though, which would you recommend to use as the sole template? Do you mean in the bibliography or in the individual sources? :S --Jza84 |  Talk  19:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

My preference, since being introduced to it during a marathon session on Samuel Johnson is to use the {{citation}} template for everything, in the bibliography and in the individual sources, together with the {{Harvnb}} template. You can see an example in my favourite article. It's got the really cute feature of automatically linking the notes to the bibliography as well. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe you just used the word "cute"' for some strange reason (I think it's the Malleus) I always think of you as a formidable, Longshanks type character!!... anyway, thanks for that advise. I had noticed that system creeping in. What's annoying me is I've written FAs and in some cases I used a system of citation I used in my studies, i.e. without page numbers. I'm worried that Oldham lacks page numbers and some of the books I used for it are back at the library... I'll see if I can work out the Harvnb system and get it working on Shaw and Crompton, as well as Milnrow and Royton. Thanks again, your input is much appreciated. --Jza84 |  Talk  19:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I think of myself more as an Eric Bloodaxe kind of a character—tough, brutal, but like Eric able to forgive because of a poem. Longshanks probably fits just as well though. The citation requirement for GA does now demand page numbers, and they'll certainly be asked for if ever a GA Sweeps reviewer comes along. As one inevitably will one day. I had the same problem with Trafford Park, scratching my head wondering where the hell I'd come across something or other that needed to be cited during its GA review. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Okie dokie - I think I got most, if not all of them with the new system. Also tidied some of the other refs up too, which I'm pleased with. Kinda annoyed with the Oldham article now, but give me time, I'll see if I can fix it up. I'd feel better if you took a quick look to double check I've hit the spot! --Jza84 |  Talk  21:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

That's pretty much it. The only problem is that you now have a mixture of ISO dates and regular dates in the references, and the MoS says that date formats have to be consistent. I've changed the first few citations as an example of how I'd fix that. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Joy.... seems odd to me that there are so many systems floating around. Yes, I love this new style, and I'll adopt it going forwards, but why isn't this widely used already? Bit of poor organisation on the part of that corner of Wikipedia methinks. Might be worth retroactively applying this citation style to our other GA/FAs, Peterloo and Stretford come to mind, and I'm not convinced Manchester is as good as it needs/ought to me. Nev1 might want a nudge about Sale too - I'll do that. Thanks again, --Jza84 |  Talk  21:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree, we need to maintain the standard of our FA/GAs. BTW, with my excrutiatingly picky FAC reviewer hat on, is this right?

"In memory of the men of Crompton who fought and gave their lives to free mankind from the oppression and brutal tyranny of war,. 1914–1919."

Is there really a comma and fullstop at the end? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

User:Peteb16 may know. I believe he added this. I can ask him? :) --Jza84 |  Talk  22:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I've checked the citation, and it has the same punctuation error. I very much doubt that the actual inscription does though. Wbat a dilemma. To go with common sense and what can be seen on the war memorial, or to stick with what is plainly incorrect, because there's a reliable source for that misinformation. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll remove the comma. I think this is a case of WP:IAR. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  12:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Very well

I read my blocked message. I am personally disgusted by the systematic reversals over my edits by the user I have come to find difficult. He may be very educated in the Wikipedia world but not in the locality I have worked on. Simple time will tell. I will leave alone now because I have to admit I am made not welcome by this editor so what is the point. As anyone who defends Jza will say dont let the bastards get to you. So I won't rise to it have it your own way. Dmcm2008 (talk) 13:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note

Thanks for the note. I tried to add to the ANI thread but it was archived during my post. No problem. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 21:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

It was at the original place just long enough for me to read it! White Rose was a 'gimme' really, but the others are new to me. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 22:06, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Couriouser and couriouser. One of Yorkshirian's socks, Cradashj, is mentioned as the sole remaining opposer at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-08-02 Sicani. Also mentioned on that page are User:Soprani who is User:Daddy Kindsoul, and User: Kyarichy who is User:Fone4My. Mr Stephen (talk) 07:56, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Another vandal account

Hi, I've found another account User talk:Liamsmith50 that is being used purely for vandalism see his contributions at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liamsmith50 - could you block it? Richerman (talk) 22:58, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

His last bit of vandalism was to scramble the warnings on his talk page. The last one was blocked without further warning as it was identified as a vandal only account or something like that. Personally I'd go for knock down and kill rather than stun -but that's probably why you're an admin and I'm not :-) Richerman (talk) 23:58, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Our mutual friend

I'll keep an eye out. I suspect he may be back.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 13:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Sale

Any thoughts on Sale, Greater Manchester? I'm tempted to plunge back into FAC after having addressed the points Richerman and Parrot of Doom raised, although perhaps the flow could use a bit more ironing out. I'm eager to give it a go ;-) BTW your work on Shaw and Crompton reminded me that at some point I'll have to try to find some page numbers for Altrincham. Nev1 (talk) 15:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I had noticed the geograph pictures, I'm thinking of uploading all three to commons as it'd be nice to have a bank of pictures (in fact I'll do that now). I particularly like the one of the church, I'd been thinking of using it instead of he present one in the religion section. Nev1 (talk) 15:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Socks of Yorkshirian

Wow. I'm amazed. At least we know it wasn't personal. I see lots of disputes and fallings-out with several of these user names in other areas and with other editors. Total lack of respect for (almost?) all WP policies. MRSC • Talk 15:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

It makes me wonder if there are any more so far undiscovered, and the pattern of behaviour does seem to be similar to others, though they are probably unrelated. There does seem to be something seriously askew with the kind of mindset I imagine drives this kind of behaviour on this kind of scale. How on earth do they find the time and the mental capacity to keep on top of it all?  DDStretch  (talk) 15:54, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

(There could be only, say, 1000 genuine editors on wikipedia, you know.... 8-) ).  DDStretch  (talk) 15:56, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I suspect that there are even fewer than that. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 16:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Well you three seem to be decent, hardworking, and otherwise agreeable editors... hold on, perhaps you three are all one-and-the-same! --Jza84 |  Talk  16:11, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I suspect there are some who probably think that we're all your sockpuppets. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 16:14, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

erm... no comment. :P --Jza84 |  Talk  16:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

"When Solipsism, Wikipedia, and Multiple Personality Disorder Collide: The story of an editor beside himself with anger." Due to be published next week, no doubt.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

More socks than M&S. Mr Stephen (talk) 20:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

(hit the wrong button there ...) I'm sure there are a lot more of his socks around. While looking for likely candidates I came across several cases where a user came from nowhere, made a shedload of edits to one or two articles in double quick time, then disappeared forever. CU would be stale now, and I think he uses a dynamic IP anyway. Mr Stephen (talk) 20:04, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know much about checkuser, but if it's just a check on IP addresses then it's going to miss an awful lot of abuse. It's exceedingly easy to anonymise an IP address. I've toyed in the past with the idea of analysing writing style, which is much harder to disguise. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Just compare the style of language and editting on User_talk:Soprani#Blocked (read onwards), with Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Yorkshirian#Statement_by_Yorkshirian. I'm not trained, but I see more than a few comparisons! --Jza84 |  Talk  20:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

There's a bit of a push on to find ways of indentifying the authors of anonymous emails. The idea is that you would have access to all the emails sent by a group of people and then you could identify quirks of everyone's style. Then you could attach probablilities of author matches to the anon email, then more traditional techniques (thumbscrews, etc) would take over. I once looked at it a bit, but reckoned I had too many new things to learn to make it interesting. Mr Stephen (talk) 21:15, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Have you come across the stupid filter project? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I hadn’t seen that before, but it looks like a worthwhile project. I think I like it. All the buzzwords seem to be there, 'Support Vector Machine', 'Bayesian probabilities' and the like. I am reminded of a cartoon called 'Albert the Experimental Rat' which I found in an old copy of New Scientist (c.1990). One of the rat's pals is instructing a mobile phone to call Albert. The call passes through a 'nonsense filtering satellite', which quickly cuts them off with Digital Dorothy informing the pair that their conversation is "meaningless and very boring". Voice commands are here, but where is that satellite? Could the TIF bid include some research? Mr Stephen (talk) 07:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for keeping me informed. He is basically a troll, with nothing better to do than goad people who are engaged in a collaborative project and generally waste our time. You are right, he will not go away easily. Worse still, it appears the subject focus shifts in order to allow this sad abuse to continue. This is how he gets his kicks. At least we are armed with this information now. MRSC • Talk 05:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello and thank-you for the welcome message

Hello. I appreciate your welcome message, but I don't understand the change you made in the 'healthcare in the united kingdom' article. I read the policy about lists and it speaks about lists that are there to help navigation. When I added the list of the 4 related articles I thought it would help anybody who wanted to find out more about healthcare in the different parts of the country. Having worked in the health service in both England and Scotland makes me aware that there are some real differences, and anybody wanting to find out more needs to be directed to the appropriate article. I've reversed your change, but if you still think the lists would be better removed so be it - but why change the whole lead as well? I thought it was good the way it was and your changes - a framework of healthcare... what does that mean? Anyway, thanks for the message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.202.178 (talk) 21:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello again. Sorry I missed your messages. It's no big deal about the changes you made. I thought I was being helpful by providing direct links but so be it. I have never bothered registering because I don't really want to get too involved - I prefer to feel I can make a contribution as and when, and move on. I don't think I very experienced but I learn quickly by copying clever things I see in one article if I think they would work in another. I don't regard myself as a nationalist (infact I was in the Labour party until Tony Blair got rid of clause 4) but I do live in Fraserburgh in North-East Scotland which is a very strong nationalist area so I may have been influenced by nationalist thinking more than I realised! I'll try to watch out for that in future. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.202.178 (talk) 22:22, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi there - a strange question!

Hi there. No offence taken from the question. I can't say I've noticed the issue you raise because I just notice editors who I come across regularly - like yourself. I hope the following is useful.

I only edit Wikipedia at home - even if I had the time at work I couldn't anyway because the Academy I work in is always blocked on account of pupils causing vandalism! I have a shortcut saved on my desktop at home that means I don't have to log in every time I decide to look on Wikipedia. There have been occasions when I have had to delete stuff in my computer memory when I have had security alerts and the like to keep out pop ups etc, but generally I should only be editing with my own username. I use fishiehelper2 because I started as fishiehelper1 but then forgot my log-in details and had to register again! I am aware that some of my smart students made a few edits as fishiehelper3 on articles they knew I watched, but that was clearly just a one-off attempt at humour! (I doubt if anyone is trying to copy my edit patterns or anything now!)

Is that helpful at all? If not, please get in touch again. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 22:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi there!!! I see what you mean! All I can think of to account for the pattern is that the way I have my watch pages set up means that when an editor makes a change to a page I have 'watched' I check out the change to see if it looks good. Often I'll then make a change to that edit or that article while I am there.

Is there no way to find out any more about the editor(s) - you say the ip address is not static - does that mean that editing is being done from different computers? Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 22:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi again - no need to apologise! Infact I have looked into some contributions of the 86 addresses and it is quite worrying. It appears that Fraserburgh and Aberdeenshire are both articles that he has an interest in - I also live in Aberdeenshire! Thanks for bringing this to my attention though I now feel quite unsettled! Cheers for now. Fishiehelper2 (talk) 00:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Not gone yet

Hello JZ. Thanks for the message concerning my ban on certain topics. I don't leave for Aussie till Saturday but will be quite busy up till then. I saw the discussion at Matt Lewis's talk page and left a message there. If you could take another look at the ban I would be grateful, although to be honest I worry my past indiscretions may follow me. Thanks again. Jack forbes (talk) 23:41, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Cheers! Jack forbes (talk) 23:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi JZ. A change of heart. I would rather you didn't lift the ban, some things are just not worth the hassle. I would like to thank you for the fair and honest treatment you have shown me, and I'm sure we will bump into each other in the future. Thanks. Jack forbes (talk) 06:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, just not worth it. It is people like that, that make others decide to use another username (Sockpuppet?). But I am more honest than that, because I promised you I would not do that, and I keep my promises, always. How can I carry on when someone like him is always going to be on my back? Jack forbes (talk) 00:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Wales

Hello, administrator. May I know where did you find this type of outline map which shown urban and rural areas (e.g. Image:Edinburgh outline map.png) ? I want to make a location map for Wales, but cannot find a good outline map yet.{S19991002 (talk) 05:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose on Nev1's RfA

I have clarified my oppose here.  Asenine  10:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello!

Hey there, hope you're doing good! I know I asked this ages ago, but could you move the Welsh Bridge (Shrewsbury) page back to Welsh Bridge? When I asked you a couple months ago you were (rightly) concerned that the editor who did the disambiguation initially would soon make the Welsh Bridge (Iowa) page. However, after a while I redirected the Welsh Bridge 'disambig' page to the Shrewsbury article and nothing else has happened with the development on the Iowa bridge (after 3 months). I hope you decide this is enough grounds to finally get rid of that pointless disambiguation! :) Regards, Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 17:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much! :) Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 19:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Yorkshire Regiment

Hi James! I'm curious on your editing just now to this article, you have removed all the WP:DATE autoformat dates and also removed a factual item in the Yorkshire Beer info, saying it is a free unsourced advert, whereas there was a ref source provided? Also you have removed historical date regarding the area covered, beside Yorkshire the antecedent regiments also recruited from Northumberland, Cumbria and Lancashire. Richard Harvey (talk) 23:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello. The Manual of style on dates changed around a month ago meaning that dates no longer require wikilinking. I ran a "script" through the article which makes the page MOS compliant.

With regards to the Yorkshire Beer info - please double check. I can safely say that there isn't a single inline reference in that section. An editor of your stature must be under the impression that this is appropriate content for one reason or another however. Could you ensure that this section is referenced ASAP?

Finally, with regrards to "historical areas", we need to ensure that this material is compliant with WP:PLACE, i.e. the modern counties are used as the primary geographic frame of reference. The ancient or former counties can (and should) be included, but as an afternote.

Hope that helps, --Jza84 |  Talk  18:50, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Manchester Mummy (again)

What what do you think of it now? I nominated it at WP:GAN earlier; I think it deserves to make it. Though I say it myself who shouldn't, it's far and away the best and most comprehensive account that I've come across. Not to say that it can't be improved though. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Re:Jza

Hey, thanks Jza. It was a good holiday, though back to reality now. See you around. :) Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 03:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Oldham CB CoA

File:Oldham County Borough Council - coat of arms.png

Before

After

Hi. I did a job on the Oldham CB coat of arms image as it was fairly inaccurate. The "chevron invected plain cottised Or" is a flat chevron with an invected (wobbly) edge and two straight cottises or skinny lines following the shape of the chevron on either side, with the black shield showing through between them, rather than a lumpy rope thing: no doubt there are carvings round the town like this, but they are wrong. I changed the owls to white in colour per the blazon, and corrected the spelling of the motto. Hope that's OK!

Lozleader (talk) 13:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Castleford

Have edited your addition to Castleford page linking urban renewal to gentrification because there is no evidence of gentrification taking place in the town. There isn't evidence to date of the town moving from a low to a high value neighborhood. There is evidence of public sector investment and private sector follow up in improving the town's public realm: suggestion that the market failure that has dogged the town since the closure of the mines is starting to turn. Where this ends up is anyone's guess. And the likelihood is that it isn't going to end up with gentrifiers occupying the town but low/mid income key workers who can't afford to live in Leeds. Hope my editing doesn't annoy. It's just that the work gentrification in the U.K., as you know, is a pejorative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrdavidbarrie (talk • contribs) 19:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)