Talk:Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing

Vandalism

This articals facts were vandalized under gass price modifiers, someone has messed with the numbers by adding more didgits. Can someone correct the facts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.172.80.4 (talk) 16:29, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's still something wrong there. "not"s seem to have been inserted everywhere...

Average gasoline prices around the world

1. correction Iran The CNN Money link states Iran feul price is US0.33per gallon.

2. Addition Brunei Could someone please add Brunei feul prices to the list of current prices. It adds to the the SE Asian list. I quote the IHT http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/26/business/AS-FIN-Brunei-Fuel-Prices.php "Energy Minister Awang Yahya said that subsidies in 2004 totaled 50 million Brunei dollars, but the figure has since skyrocketed as Brunei maintained retail gasoline prices at 53 Brunei cents (US$0.40; €0.25) per liter, or 2 Brunei dollars (US$1.51; €1) per gallon, despite soaring global prices." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.54.214.54 (talk) 01:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of discussion

Wow. The lack of discussion on Gas Prices is surprising. This page has been faithfully and objectively updated, but is lacking in a longer history on prices and consumption rates, either per person or combined countrywide.

Also, a discussion of causes in price fluctuations in the US, from the start to today, including the following major events:

The introduction motor cars (increase in demand)
The consolidation of gas companies (reduction in competition)
The breakup of Standard Oil (return of competition)
The rationing of WWII (increase in demand, black market coupons)
The method of delivery to customers through branded stations (reduction in competition)
The creation of suburbs (increase in car ownership, increase in usage, increase in demand)
The rise of the Middle East powers (increase in foreign dependency)
The creation of OPEC (increase in costs, reduction of competition)
The "Gas Crisis" of the 1970s (shortages leading to cost increases)
The multiple mergers of oil companies and multinationals (reduced competition)
The politicization of gasoline (removal of lead, different formulas for environmetal guidelines, lack of new refineries, ANWR and the Florida coast drilling, "No Blood for Oil", Iran hostage crisis, conspiracy theories)

I am guessing that some of this already exists in the pages of other Wikipedia articles, but this would be a good central point for all of this. I know, be bold, but I usually defer to the regular creators of a page before jumping in. After all, there might already be a page called "History of Gas Prices" or something like that which I am unaware of. CodeCarpenter 21:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that a large section on pricing at the pump had been deleted from the filling station article in January without discussion. I've reinstated it there, with a note on the talk page, but this article might be a better place for it. --Tysto 17:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More to the first editor's point:

It would be interesting to see a discussion these additional pricing-related topics: 1. How in the US retail per-gallon prices are universally expressed in cents plus hundreds of cents. How did this get started? Why does it persist, as a lone example of pricing weirdness? 2. How filling station owners set the price of gasoline daily. Specifically, (a) what inputs are they using to tell them that overnight (or in the middle of the day) the retail price of gasoline should/could move up? In changing prices they often seem to be responding to events far beyond the local market for gasoline, e.g., you'll hear that gas prices rose on a given day because of "concerns" about potential supply disruptions in the Middle East (or am I misinterpreting things here -- is it just the price of oil that's affected?). OK, but how does my local gas station owner know how to react to that, by raising the price three cents, say, versus ten cents? Do the oil wholesalers, for instance, supply price data down to the local level? (b) If gas station owners are buying gasoline in large quantities (think of the big tankers) at wholesale, do they ever lose money because they paid $X/gal expecting to sell for $X-plus-something/gal when subsequent supply/demand dynamics push the retail price down to $X-MINUS/gal? Or do they have ways of protecting themselves against this sort of thing? This seems like a huge risk. McTavidge (talk) 04:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References

I do no know how to add references but this is a decent source: http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-291.html

The following document gives prices for nearly all countries of the world as of November 2006: [1], see the graphic on page 97 for a summary; or a shorter summary: [2]. If I ever get time I will update the figures in this article, or somebody else can.

P.S., can we please have prices per litre (as in above document). I can convert currencies, but a U.S. gallon is meaningless to anyone outside the US, most of the world sells petrol by the litre. TiffaF 13:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Opening Paragraph

shouldnt "...amounting to 44% of the total U.S. consumption of petroleum products." be "...amounting to 44% of the total world consumption of petroleum products."

?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.162.204.52 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 10 July 2007.

No. The 44% is the fraction of U.S. petroleum consumption that goes to gasoline (as opposed to fuel oil or diesel fuel). This is the ratio of the U.S. consumption of gasoline, 3.3 billion barrels / year (531 billion liters/ year) to the total U.S. consumption of petrol products, 7.6 billion barrels/year (1.21 trillion liters/year). EIA data for 2005

The fraction you're thinking of is the ratio of the total U.S. consumption of all petroleum products (1.21 trillion liters / year) to the world production of petroleum, which is [3] 84.21 million barrels / day (4.89 trillion liters / year). This ratio, the U.S. share consumption of all petroleum products, is 25%. Whosasking 16:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Price variability

I have moved the following text from Gasoline usage and pricing to Talk:Gasoline usage and pricing because it appears to be missing assumptions that would give it logical sense. One assumption could be that taxes outside the US have a flat component but the text does not state this. It needs rewriting, with sources, to make meaningful sense. For example if gasoline costs one dollar per gallon in the US with zero taxes and one dollar in the UK with 100 % taxes (so costing 2 dollars to the consumer), other costs being the same, then an increase in oil cost of 50% makes gasoline cost 1.50 in the US and 3.00 in the UK. In both countries the consumer price has increased by 50%, and there is no difference in percentage variability. Maybe "greater" should be replaced by "the same", or the percentage clause just removed? The absolute variability being less would be true, but to me seems unimportant as taxes always increase the absolute costs, and therefore the variability, to the consumer. It seems to reduce to "Increased taxes cause reduced retail price variability in absolute terms." Is this worth explaining here?

"Because a greater proportion of the price of gasoline in the United States is due to the cost of oil, rather than taxes, the price of the retail product is subject to greater fluctuations (vs. outside the U.S.) when calculated as a percentage of cost-per-unit, but is actually less variable in absolute terms)."

-Wikianon 11:50, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But, continuing your example, the UK government could reduce the tax to limit the increase in cost to the consumer. (consider: the US price goes from $1 -> $2, a 100% increase. The UK price would have gone from $2 -> $4 (100% increase), but the 100% tax was cut to 50%, so it went from $2 -> $3 (50% increase).

This year, the UK government had planned to increase the fuel tax in April, but instead decided to delay the increase until October. Haulage companies are complaining that the tax shouldn't be increased at all, but their main complaint seems to be that foreign lorries (via the English Channel on ferries or trains) bring a full tank of cheap fuel with them to reduce their costs, which the UK companies can't compete with. As the £ continues to fall against the € their argument weakens. [[4]] -- I notice that several western European countries are now more expensive than the UK, according to the article.ƕ (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What will happen in the future if there is a real shortage on oil production? At present with the high prices, people curse, but still drive to work and other places and heat their homes with oil (in the winter). The price can get extremely high before people really lower their demand. What do think is the price 20 years from now? --BIL (talk) 21:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The use of units: Joules and kWh

In this article (on Wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_price) you say "This corresponds to 18.5 Exajoules per year, or 600 Gigawatts." I thought that watt is the rate of work done and joule is the total work done. 1J = 1Ws (Watt x second). In South Africa we use kWh to measure electrical energy consumed, so 1kWh = 3600kJ. Please explain why many people (in many sources) use kW as a measure for energy and not a measure of power. Thank you! Thermofan (talk) 23:02, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A 'joule' is indeed a measure of work done, but a 'joule per year' is a rate of work done. If you do work at a rate of 600GW all year, you'll have used (very approximately) 18.5EJ.

People using kW as a measure of energy are just wrong! I don't know why — probably they didn't listen at school. ƕ (talk) 18:30, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wondering if information on pump discrepancy fits here

Potentially useful citation for your consideration: Michael Gromley (2008-04-27). "Gas pumps may give less for more". DelawareOnline. Albany, New York: Delaware News Journal. Retrieved 2008-04-27. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Korea

This article has no numbers for either country on the Korean Peninsula. This is a conspicuous absence considering which nearby countries are listed. What's going on?Youdontsmellbad (talk) 00:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added them for you. There are lots of countries missing. There's a document listed that gives prices for 171 countries in 11/2006. If you see a glaring omission, feel free to add it. Also, if you know someone in Korea, or who can find the right website, feel free to update the Korea prices to 2008. NJGW (talk) 03:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

TEAMWORK!Youdontsmellbad (talk) 10:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

European Fuel Taxation

This page should have the European Union nations, Middle East states categorized by region since there is a price differentiation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.138.68 (talk) 21:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Longer Term Price Adjusted for Inflation

Some longer term history of the price of gas over history adjusted for inflation would be more useful. For instance gas was regullary $3.15+ in 2008 dollars back in the early 1980's. A little perspective is always nice. An example chart of more longer term data is shown here: http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm File:Http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Inflation adjusted gasoline price.jpg

A wiki-usable image would be nice to include in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.130.174.146 (talk) 03:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Usage data only given for US

The title of the page is "Gasoline Usage and Pricing" and extensive global data is given on pricing, but usage data is only given for the US, other than anecdotal information. Shouldn't more usage data for other countries be given to make it comparable in content to the pricing data? Or should this page be split into two separate pages, one on pricing and one on usage? Dru007 (talk) 03:25, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Units

According to the GTZ document referenced in the article, fuel is sold in:

US Gallons in Belize, Columbia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Liberia, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, Puerto Rico, Sierra Leone, USA
Imperial Gallons in Antigua and Barbuda, Guyana, United Arab Emirates
Litres in 151 other countries.

I've changed the table to have $/litre first, and added automatic conversions to $/US-gallon for every country listed. Hopefully this will be easier to maintain than everyone having to convert currencies and volumes! ƕ (talk) 16:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So the second column is in US Gallons? I think we should put a note of what gallon it is, and perhaps an Imperial Gallon column if it's not too difficult so that everyone can have it in their own units. koolman2 (talk) 21:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Technically, $/kg would be the most accurate since the volume changes significantly (meant literally) with temperature. 24.7.178.142 (talk) 02:58, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gasoline doesn't mention it, but the volumetric CTE appears to be 950×10^-6/K[5][6][7][8][9] (none of those cites are authoritative, alas), which is very close to 0.001/K. Which means a change in temperature of 10C (18F) is a change in volume of 0.01 or 1%. That's the equivalent of about four cents a gallon with $4/gal gas. It seems like gas stations would be in their rights to correct for this so that you effectively buy by weight. —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 10:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Following the money with rising pump prices

I gather from various news sources that individual gas stations aren't the ones getting rich off of the present high prices. So who is? What does the supply chain look like and what is a typical cut at each step along the way? It arrives at gas stations on tank trucks that drove from... where? —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 04:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is the world market price for crude (raw) oil that increases. So I assume it is the producers of crude oil, the owners of the oil sources, that get rich. Not really the gas station owners, maybe it varies, but where I am from they have a fixed margin of about 0.10 € per litre. --BIL (talk) 17:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

moved United States gasoline price images

Overnight gas price hike shown at a Chicago area BP-Amoco station (background) on August 12, 2005. The Shell station (foreground) has not yet posted the 12 cent price hike.^{[needs update]}

By 2008, prices had risen to levels thought impossible a year earlier,^{[citation needed]} this picture taken in California, USA, at the end of May 2008 contrasts sharply with the earlier picture above^{[clarification needed]}

I've moved these two US gasoline price images from Price of petroleum to Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing because that article deals with petroleum and not petroleum derivative prices. However the two images look like they go together and could be used here, maybe to illustrate the impact of Petroleum prices on a typical derivative? -84user (talk) 16:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion

Someone has done a super great job on this webpage "Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing." If there was some way to get whoever did this page to include the gas taxes in the "Average gasoline prices around the world" that would be even greater. This information is really timely and people need to be able to look at a schedule like this and know that nearly all people the world over are paying about the same price for the gasoline itself less the taxes except in a few cases where gasoline is supposedly being heavily subsidized.

Thank you for considering my suggestion.

Jim

I think you're suggesting something like this:

Country/Territory	US$/L	US$/gal	Local units	Amount of tax in consumer price	Date of price	Sources
United Kingdom	2.33	8.82	£1.19/L	57.3%	2008-06-30	[10]

It's not simple to calculate. For instance, the UK imposes a fuel duty of £0.5035 per litre on normal petrol, and 17.5% VAT on the retail price. The average consumer price on 2008-06-30 was £1.18845 per litre. Take off the VAT: £1.18845÷1.175 = £1.01145. Subtracting the fuel duty gives £0.50795 per litre (so that's the cost of the petrol, plus the delivery costs, plus the costs and profit added by the retailer). So, 57.3% of the consumer price is tax.

If the price goes up to £1.20/l next month (and the fuel duty and VAT rate stay the same), the amount of tax will change to 56.9%.

There is good data on the price and taxes for the EU [11], but adding this information will make the page harder to maintain. ƕ (talk) 11:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]