Talk:Pro Wrestling Illustrated

Awards pages

This article links to several different pages addressing PWI awards. Is there any reason the awards pages can't be streamlined into a single page? It's really not that much information, and each page linked to in the awards section ends up being quite small. Call it an annoyance if you will, but I was just looking through Wrestling Observer's awards list, and I personally find that format much prefered over the format used to list former PWI award winners. Smokachu 2:39, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Aren't the PWI awards just given out by staff writers? I've read several times that the results are chosen by the staff and the fans votes aren't actually counted. Has anyone else heard this? middleeasternfilms 23:04, 21 July 2007

Sweeping Statments

The article seems to make a lot of sweeping statements of dubious veracity, without backing any of it up, and sometimes contradicting itself. For instance, "PWI has always been a big seller," followed later by "But PWI still has enough sales to stay alive." In addition, the article reeks of bias, with statements like "They always have good pictures." According to whom? I am going to do some cleanup and try and make it more NPOV. Any thoughts? --Pathogen 05:38, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

I think you're right. The History section is particularly biased. Also, what are the "PWI years"? Is that just "since the early 70s"? — Gwalla | Talk 21:45, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Not having ever read PWI, I would imagine it means "Years in which PWI has been published." --Pathogen 19:34, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

The PWI years mentioned in the special was the 20 years the magazine had been published. I don't know why the 500 of the PWI years is listed as being in 03. I believe it was in the winter months between 98 and 99. --Talison 02:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, PWI is still around to this date. It's hard to find recent issues like the wrestling boom years of 1998-2001, but they're still around.--Raderick 05:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Publishing Date

Someone please explain, if PWI began publication in 1979, then why are there awards going back to 1972.?Vinnyxvincent 00:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Because PWI is part of a family of Wrestling Magazines that predate 79. The Awards are now exclusive to PWI, but I believe they were carried by the other magazines originally. --Talison 02:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Top 500 in 2006

The top 500 of 2006 has not been published, so Cena can't be the winner... (or Joe like I read weeks ago). I deleted it. (11/09/2006)

One more time I deleted the results of top 500 in 2006 ! Stop put Cena or anyone else because nobody has the results !(12 september 2006).

I change it one more time... It's vandalism, and I will tell it to the people concerned.(12 september 2006).

And one more, this time it's a warning. (14 september 2006).

PWI did not recognize three world titles to begin with

I'm 99% sure that the WWWF title was NOT recognized as a world title by PWI until well into Hulk Hogan's first title reign. Anyone back me up on that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.188.8.159 (talk) 03:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

Actually they recognized it from the beginning. At one point in Backlund's reigh they stripped recognition because Backlund had not defended against enough "scientific competitors." Recognition was restored around the time of Hogan's first reign and PWI has since stated that it was a mistake to remove recognition. They now consider the WWE Title's entire history as being a World Title. --Talison 02:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The table currently has the title recognised as a world championship from January 25, 1963 onwards, despite the fact that the WWE Championship didnt even come into existance until April 29, 1963. How did they manage to recognise a championship which didnt exist as a World Title? Then again we all know the PWI guidelines as to what makes a "World Title" are not taken seriously by anybody in the wrestling business anyway. SubzeroWrestling (talk) 22:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

January 25 (24 actually) is the date NWA champion Lou Thesz defeated Buddy Rodgers which led to the wwwf spliting from the nwa. I guess someone made a mistake. I've corrected the dates. As for PWI not being take seriously, I can see why, but the article never states that what PWI claims is the truth. This is simply an article about a magazine and its personal criteria. Secretaria (talk) 02:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Someone changed the Top 500 section

Singles Wrestlers

The top five singles wrestlers were:

1. Flag of United States The Shockmaster 2. Flag of Argentina Giant Gonzalez 3. Flag of United States Bastion Booger 4. Template:Country data parts unknown The Zombie 5. Flag of United States Brian Christopher

Who ever is in charge of this page should probably fix that.

Nhceltics 18:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• The list of 2007 is completely wrong. --84.185.97.36 (talk) 03:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I've brought in the tables from the merged articles

Seems like a no-brainer. That's what people who voted 'keep' wanted to keep, and we were starting to have a consensus formed when the AFD closed. I'm certainly fine with this, and at, now, 42 KB the article is big, but not excessively so. The placement and the heading hierarchy on the tables could probably use some work, but otherwise I think this arrangement ought to be satisfactory all around. It was certainly not helpful to simply redirect the old article titles to the sections of this one, which contained almost none of the content the old articles had (my apologies if further movement of content was planned but not yet executed), and as I said the article now is big but hardly massive. Sounds like win-win to me. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 10:07, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

What Happend To This Table

i used to view a pwi list of world championships regine by lenth but a few days ago i tryed to find it and got reverted to this artical could some one tell me where that table is i found the table of world champions and how many they have but i'm after the one that says john cena 770 days —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.202.181.53 (talk) 23:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I've added the list of world title reigns by length in the number of reigns list. Secretaria 18:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

---

Link redirects Here

refering to the messiage above there was a table that states each world champions lenght in days and everytime i find the link it redirects here --KCDavis (talk) 23:24, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

PWI Recognizes Angles NWA Title Win

http://pwi-online.com/pages/readastoryleft.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.11.251 (talk) 19:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the nwa mentio is a mistake. The article calls him an 8-time world champion ( WWE (4), WCW (1), World Heavyweight (1) and TNA (2)) so they must've put nwa by mistake. It's weird. PWI can't recognise a reign that's not recognised by the NWA. I always assumed that angle's victory had been nullified when cornette stripped him of the title (like jericho when he won the wwe championship in 00, owen hart in 94 or goldberg in wcw in 00). Since the article contradicts itself I don't think it should be accountable. Secretaria 23:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Well this page is about what PWI thinks, not the NWA, TNA also recognizes it. And maybe they wrote this article before he won back the TNA title, hell sting had it for only 2 weeks so maybe they just forgot. But it does say NWA--Tboneangle (talk) 21:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's just your guess. An article with contradictions is not valid proof. This is an encyclopedia not the "user's guesses website". Until PWI makes a clear statement about it we should just say we don't know PWI's view on the subject. Secretaria 16:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I just ordered the PWI 2008 Almanac,if this says he was an NWA champion then it will be final!--Tboneangle (talk) 22:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

How do you figure that? PWI's interpretation of the history of a wrestling championship doesn't supercede that of a promotion or governing body that owns it. In every article, the view of the promotion or governing body which owns a title takes prescadent over the views of any other source, even if it's a view that PWI might not necessarily agree with. The fact that the National Wrestling Alliance considers the NWA World Championship to be a "world" title and PWI doesn't is a good example of that. You don't see the NWA dropping "world" from the title's name just because PWI doesn't recognize it's "world" title status.Odin's Beard (talk) 00:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

well this article is about what PWI considers,so if pwi considers Angle to be a former NWA champion, then we put it in.Im not saying NWA considers it,but sincce thsi IS the PWI page, even if PWI said they consider Shark Boy to be a WWE champion, we put it in.--Tboneangle (talk) 19:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, not a PWI forum. Information that is knowingly false can't go into the articles. Kurt Angle can't be referred to as a former NWA World Champion if the NWA doesn't recognize him as one.Odin's Beard (talk) 22:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Odin's Beard has a point. The article lists what Pro Wrestling Illustrated is about, it's various awards, and which championships it recognizes as World championships. PWI, however, doesn't determine who wins a championship and who doesn't. That falls squarely within the boundaries of whoever owns the championship in question, not industry trade magazines.4.225.11.8 (talk) 01:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

then why have a list of wrestlers who have held belts and how many times they have had it?--71.139.15.212 (talk) 07:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It takes more than merely having physical possession of a championship belt to be recognized as a champion. The promotion or governing body that controls a championship must recognize the win and reign. By PWI's recognition, Ric Flair is a 16 time World Champion. WWE also calls him a 16 time World Champion, but these view points aren't "official" because there's nothing or no one in pro wrestling that can ultimately dictate which title is or isn't a "world" championship. It's something that', technically, is completely arbitrary. Flair's actual tally of winning championships bearing the name of a "World Heavyweight Championship" is 21. Wikipedia doesn't exclude the "World Heavyweight Championship" wins and reigns with championships PWI doesn't recognize. There are wrestlers listed in the championship history of some articles that aren't officially recognized by the promotions because they did have physical possession of the titles after winning matches. As I aluded to earlier, however, a championship is just a hunk of metal and leather without company recognition. We can include those wrestlers and mention in their articles, like Antonio Inoki, the incident regarding the WWE Championship. But Inoki can't be called a former WWE Champion by us because the WWE doesn't recognize him as so. Doing otherwise would be substituting our personal opinions over that of WWE, which owns and controls the WWE Championship. Exact same thing goes with PWI and the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. It's mentioned in Kurt Angle's article the incident involving the NWA World Heavyweight Championship, but that's it. He can't be a former NWA World Heavyweight Champion, at least by Wikipedia, if the NWA doesn't recognize him as one.Odin's Beard (talk) 23:43, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

This discussion can finally be settled. From PWI: June 17: Kurt Angle defeats Samoa Joe, A.J. Styles, Christian Cage, and Chris Harris in a “King Of The Mountain” match at Slammiversary to become the first official TNA World heavyweight champion one month after his NWA World title victory had been declared null and void. Secretaria (talk) 03:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

But where is your link? 41.245.156.70 (talk) 10:14, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Kane?

Should not be listed as a 2-time World Champion. I would edit it, but am not sure how to do it without messing everything else up.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.158.152.207 (talk) 09:56, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Currently, PWI doesn't recognize the ECW Championship as a "World" championship. Labeling a title as a "World" title is something that is completely artitrary. There is no one source for all of pro wrestling that decides which titles are "World" titles and which aren't. What that means is that if I ever began a wrestling promotion, I could declare my primary singles and tag titles to be "World" titles and it would technically have as much validity as any "World" title that PWI recognizes. The WWE, I believe, does consider the ECW Championship to be a "World" title. At WrestleMania, the Big Show was referred to as a 5-time World Champion. As a singles wrestler, he's won the WCW and WWE Championships each twice. So, the fifth "World" title the WWE referred to has to be the ECW Championship. But, we can't state in this article that Kane is a 2 time "World" Champion because we can't dictate PWI's standards for world title recognition. Now, if there was one single entity or organization or official governing body or committee or something that all of pro wrestling could agree upon to recognize "World" titles, then that'd be a different story.Odin's Beard (talk) 13:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The table isn't consistant anyways because it also says Rob Van Dam and Vince McMahon won the ECW title when it had world status, but Big Show, Lashley, Nitro, Punk and Chavo aren't on the list. (I'm not saying they should be on, I'm just saying the table is wrong.) Kirby17 (talk) 16:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The table is fixed. Secretaria (talk) 21:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Gold Standard

What makes the PWI the gold standard why do they get to decide what a World Championship is? Isn't a World Championhip a title that is defended around the world? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.202.133.230 (talk) 23:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It's their own criteria, it doesn't mean anything nor is official. But this is a page about PWI and their criteria should be included. Secretaria 05:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

2008 PWI 500

Randy Orton is #1 according to the PWI website, not Edge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.173.51.246 (talk) 03:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

ECW championship

PWI now recognises the WWE's version of this championship from June 13th last year onwards, someone needs to add these previous and the current ECW champions to the table of world champions —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nosnekid (talk • contribs) 17:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Post a source and I'll do it. Secretaria 2:56, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Is this mentioned in a magazine, or online? Also, why June 13 2007? 41.245.156.10 (talk) 07:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I noticed it in the paragraph above the table of world champions, but I am unaware of it's source or who posted it. Although since then this information has been changed to July 1st 2008. I don't know which is true but did feel there needed to be something done about it Nosnekid (talk) 12:51, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah some guy made several edits claiming that PWI started to recognize the ecw championship as a world title since July 1 a few days ago without a source. Until someone give a source I'm gonna revert the info. Secretaria 17:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

June 13th, 2006 was the night that Rob Van Dam was presented with the ECW World Title on the very first episode of ECW on Sci-Fi live in Trenton, NJ. He won the WWE Championship on 11/6/06 at One Night Stand for the ECW Brand, but was not declared the ECW Champion until Tuesday the 13th when Paul Heyman awarded him the ECW title and made him a dual champion. http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/archive/061320061/ - June 13th 2006 ECW Report http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/history/ecwchampionship/ - ECW Title History from the WWE Website (which incidentally, is the correct version as accepted by the wrestling industry and traces the lineage back to the original ECW) SubzeroWrestling (talk) 21:58, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Jerry Lawler

Could someone please explain why Jerry lawler is listed as having 2 AWAv World Championship reigns please. His page, the AWA Championship page and the USWA Unified World Heavyweight Championship page all indicate that he only held the AWA World Championship once, and i don't believe (which i know counts for nothing but nevertheless)that PWI ever recognised the USWA Champinship or the WCCW Championship as World Championships, and if they did that would mean Lawlers World Championship count would be far greater than 2. Theincomparablebigci —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.17.102 (talk) 16:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, actually you saw it wrong. Lawler is listed as a one time AWA world champion, but he's also a former TWO time AWA tag team champion so it's you probably saw the wrong board.Secretaria (talk) 20:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Way too long

I think we should put the lists back into their own articles, it takes too long to scroll down and just looks cumbersome, especially the Tag title list, because everyone has a tag title and doesn't need to be mentioned on this page. This page should just be about PWI the magazine, with links to both lists. It's just more convenient to make this shorter, but then again, the wrestling pages have really steered clear from convenience in favor of stupid rules these days.

Donco (talk) 21:15, 31 August 2008 (UTC)