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September 18

Dating and sex

How long should you date someone before sleeping with them? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 00:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's up to you and your boy/girlfriend/partner/whatever. Dismas|^(talk) 00:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

However long it takes you to feel comfortable. -mattbuck (Talk) 01:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on your own situation, feelings, beliefs, etc. There's no "right" answer to this. There are plenty of "wrong" answers. ;-) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know oodles of people who waited over a year, but there is no hard-and-fast rule. I also know plenty of people who had sex first and relationships later, and are very happy with the result. It is 100% up to you and your significant other. Plasticup ^T/C 03:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or your religion. Your parents might also have something to say about it, if you're not an adult, at least. --Anonymous, 04:10 UTC, September 18, 2008.

As short a time as possible?? Seriously though there isn't a rule, it's a case of when you both are ready to move things to that stage. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wait – dating goes before? —Tamfang (talk) 05:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you can stand waiting that long, you can't really go wrong with sex only after marriage. At least that way you know she'll be faithful, at least at first. But really, it's up to you. --Sapphire Flame (talk) 12:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Injured Rat

Hey

I believe my pet rat has been bitten by my large dog. Although he did not peirce her flesh she was very still and not moving after the attack. I began to notice her eye was unusually red and it began to bleed. Unresponsive to food, i lay her in her cage and kept her warm, the next morning she was walking around, cleaning herself and strecthing in her cage, although still moving very slowly and prefering to be still. Is it possible she has internal bleeding and is there anything else i should be doing ?

Thanks QueeniePen (talk) 03:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I see it, you have two options. Either take her to a vet or just hope for the best. If she is walking around a little more and generally showing signs of improvement, things might just be okay. Why do you suspect that she was bitten by the dog? Could her lethargy be caused by some unrelated incident? Plasticup ^T/C 03:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know she was bitten by the dog as she had his saliva on her mid body as well as hearing him running around afterwards. Ive known him to be snappy around her but this was an unfortunate event when someone had let him in the house unexpectedly. She is ok now roaming around and climbing, the usual. Its just her eye that keeps bleeding hopefully all goes well!

thanks for your help :) QueeniePen (talk) 08:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Take it to a veterinarian immedatly. Nobody here can give you the help you need because we cannot see the rat, nor are we qualified to give such advice. If there are serious internal injuries then there may be nothing that can be done to save it, but taking it to the vet is still better than letting it suffer. I had a pet mouse who had a tumor behind her eye, very similar to how you describe, but it died in surgery because it was just so small. JessicaThunderbolt 15:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sir Anthony Carlisle

Hello

I have my own website where I freely post much information about famous people and my own research in connection with an art collection.

However, I regret I do not really have the time to add to learn how to add the research to Wikipedia as well as my own website, which is at www.portrait-miniature.blogspot.com and has many supporting pages.

Quite a lot of the research could benefit Wikipedia. Thus I was wondering if there is anyone who would like to select and add information from my website to Wikipedia as they felt appropriate?

For example Sir Anthony Carlisle is only a small stub, but I have just published a lot of amazing information about him on a subsidiary website page at http://british-miniatures2.blogspot.com/2008/09/bone-henry-portrait-of-sir-anthony.html including his attempts to fly in 1796, his connection with photography, and his being the likely model for Dr Frankenstein.

If required I can be reached via email via my profile on my website home page.

Regards Don —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.154.153.220 (talk) 05:25, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nice article, but unfortunately Wikipedia could only use material directly if it was released under a free licence. The only copyright statement I could find on your site was:

Please note that Copyright for all portraits remains with the Owner, but images may be copied for private or educational research with an appropriate credit or an Internet link to this website.

This is not acceptable for use here as Wikipedia requires a free licence allowing any re-use, including commercial. If you were to release the text under a GFDL (preferably by putting a licence statement at the bottom of the appropriate pages) we could then use the text but the images are still problematic if the owners have not released them with a free licence. SpinningSpark 09:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid we're unlikely to use your site, good as it seems, because of our rules on self-published sources such as blogs. Thank you for the offer though. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't be too hasty, I didn't look too carefully but a lot of the material seemed to be referenced. While you are right of course that a blog should not be used as a source, it could be used as article copy if the refs to reliable sources were included as well. SpinningSpark 12:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

engineering jobs

lets pretend that I have a Mechanical Engineering degree. Where in the United States/English speaking world are places with high rates of engineering jobs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.8.100.90 (talk) 05:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Silicon Valley? --Blue387 (talk) 08:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Silicon Valley is not overly relevant for a mechanical engineer. The good news, though, is that such jobs are nearly everywhere. I would expect a high concentration, though, in major manufacturing areas (such as automotive plants) or the R&D facilities that support said manufacturing (Detroit). — Lomn 13:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If it's simply a degree in mechanical engineering (rather than a specialized degree in automotive engineering), I'd stay away from Detroit. Most of the jobs are for automotive engineers, and there are a number of colleges in the area that produce nothing else. --Carnildo (talk) 21:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oreo

Which side of an Oreo are you supposed to dunk, the creamed side or the other side? February 15, 2009 (talk) 08:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at the first few pictures here. Both sides are dunked together. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neither. You only dunk ginger nuts. -- SGBailey (talk) 14:24, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no cream side; the cream is in the middle JessicaThunderbolt 15:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For God's sake! No biscuit with cream should be dunked. What the hell is happening to the world! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.187.55 (talk) 18:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I don't know. It would be a good way to get some cream in your coffee. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 19:42, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Oreo filling isn't really cream. It's mostly shortening and sugar with some vanilla flavor. —D. Monack ^talk 22:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

86.4, I think, You're thinking of dunking in coffee or tea. He could be drinking milk. APL (talk) 21:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@JT: I think the OP twisted it first.

@86: I think the OP licked it second. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:30, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

shlungenfunger (phonetic): an African meat grilling tool

A world traveler friend who had spent a few years living and working in South Africa said they used a common meat grilling utensil termed a "shlungenfunger"(phonetic) and intended to patent and market it in the U.S. It was basically a handled long skinny metal rod with a sharp 90-degree hook at the end. One used it by grasping it with one hand and twisting the "hook" into the meat, lifting the meat off the grill, turning it over, and UNtwisting the meat back on the grill. I saw the prototype that was built but have been unable to "find" the word "shlungenfunger" (phonetic) anywhere on the web? Can anyone confirm the existence of the word in conjunction with the use stated above? Wikimoid (talk) 15:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, i have used one on many an occasion when in SA, didnt really have a name though, and its utillity was vastly surpassed by BBQ tongs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I don't know about the word, but the device is already sold in the US under the name "E-Z Hook", and another version (with rounded instead of squared handles) under the name "Pig tail". Wondrously good for grilling with; I give them as presents to fellow carnivores. The only South African term I've found so far for it is "gaffel", which appears to be the same word as wikt:gaffer. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, on a whim I tried an alternate spelling possibility and did find a German-sounding "Schlangenfanger" here as a brand name for a barbecue utensil. Afrikaans will possibly have an equivalent. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Schlangenfanger translates to "snake catcher"... --Janke | Talk 17:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Which sounds about right—you use long hooks like that ("snake hooks") to wrangle snakes. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Paul von Hindenburg

I was trying to read some quotes by P von Hind. but could only find the wikiquote section for him in German. Understandable, but being such a large historical figure there must be a english sectio on him.

Further more, was he the guy with the spiked hat in the simpson when Burns gets married and he is the only guest on Burn's side exept Homer, Homer says down in front and he say NEIN!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 16:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, that would have been Kaiser Wilhelm II (see here for an example.) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or Otto Von Bismarck. It was a common look at the time. As for quotes, there is no english wikiquote page for him, no. Googling will get you a limited selection. Seems he wasn't that quotable. Fribbler (talk) 17:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Distance from Brooklyn Bridge to...

Ground Zero? Anyone know? 80.229.160.127 (talk) 18:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it depends on where you measure. From the center of the World Trade Center site to the center of the Brooklyn Bridge would be almost exactly one mile (1.6 km). From the Manhattan shoreline to the east side of the WTC site would be about 3/4 mile (1.2 km). The bridge's approach roads extend still closer to the site. (Distances measured from the downtown NYC map in the 2001 edition National Geographic Road Atlas.) --Anonymous, 19:00 UTC, September 18, 2008, copyedited later for clarity.

Has any human being gone a lifetime without sleep?

I figure there must have been a few people out there with this odd, highly useful genetic quirk. There's certainly been a few that got by on an hour or two a night. How can you train yourself to do this? I, for one, would be extremely grateful, and would say even nicer things about you guys if you could simply give me a few more hours to my day.--Sunburned Baby (talk) 20:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have heard of well-documented cases of people who had some sort of accident or trauma and they never slept again. In one case the person lived for another 30 or more years, without a wink of sleep that whole time. This is of course exceedingly rare, and to my knowledge medical science has no explanation. Therefore, there would be no known method of making it happen deliberately. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd want to see a reference on that. My understanding is that an acquired inability to sleep at all, which can occasionally happen, is invariably lethal within a fairly short time (though it probably doesn't feel short — see for example familial fatal insomnia). Extrapolating and speculating, probably some babies are conceived without the ability to sleep, but they die before birth.

Summary for the OP: This is not a thing worth wishing for. --Trovatore (talk) 21:05, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Many people have gone from birth to death without sleeping. Algebraist 21:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a report of a 3-year old Russian boy who has never slept. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've only heard of such things happening after severe brain damage. While they are technically awake, they aren't actually able to function at all (a Persistent vegetative state, probably, although I don't know the exact definition of the term). --Tango (talk) 21:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard that you can reduce your sleep requirements by spreading your sleep out throughout the day. Rather than one 8 hour sleep, say, you'd have four 1 hour naps. I haven't read any real studies into it, though, so I don't know how well it works. --Tango (talk) 21:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You might find Polyphasic sleep interesting. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are a few people, such as Thai Ngoc, who claim they do not need sleep and have not for many years, usually as the result of some trauma. Sleep scientists tend to think they are either regularly napping without being aware of it or are just liars. An old Guinness book of records had some of these people listed along with short term sleep deprivation records from people like Peter Tripp but they have stopped listing them now as they believe they are a danger to health. meltBanana 03:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This week's Economist has an article that might be of interest: "THE function of sleep, according to one school of thought, is to consolidate memory. Yet two Italians have no problems with their memory even though they never sleep. The woman and man, both in their 50s, are in the early stages of a neurodegenerative disease called multiple system atrophy. Their cases raise questions about the purpose of sleep." DAVID ŠENEK 12:43, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are animals (Dolphins are one example) who sleep with only one hemisphere of their brain at a time - this enables them to be alert to danger yet still gain the benefits of sleep. Dolphins can't breath without conscious thought - so if they slept, they'd die. It's possible that some of these weird human cases are like that - but I suspect that most of their claims are simply untrue. Who is watching these two Italians for days and days to be sure they never take a catnap? People who (through some kind of brain injury) lose the ability to sleep usually die within a month or two. SteveBaker (talk) 20:41, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How quickly does Google recognise new words?

I thought about putting this question on the Computing desk and I'm sure there's a case for that, but on balance I thought Misc was more appropriate. Let me know if I made a bad choice.

I recently unintentionally coined the word novomundane, right here on good ol' Wikipedia. It was a nice surprise when I discovered it was unknown to Google. However, Google still produces no hits over 30 hours later. When could one reasonably expect it to have been recognised? -- JackofOz (talk) 20:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would expect in a month or so. I may have to use this word somewhere! Perhaps I should get back to writing my sci-fi novel for this reason...that is if I have your permission to use it. :PAvnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 01:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, Avnas Ishtaroth. Be my guest. Words belong to the world (and not just the New World, either). A month sounds a little slow if Google prides itself on being the best search engine in existence. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly, Google does recognize the similar "novimundanus" as part of a species name. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That is interesting. Thanks, Adam. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Google seems quite slow to pick it up; I don't know how long one would usually expect, but I wrote a WP article last week which showed up first in a search less than an hour later: and I wasn't searching by title, either, but for a name within the article I wanted further information on. Gwinva (talk) 01:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After a few searches, I see that Google picks up threads after they're archived. So after a few days, it should be there. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, ta. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:05, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's there. Gwinva (talk) 09:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

September 19

food cover name?

Okay, so the title is lame, but that's what I need. It's for a project. I looked it up, and the best I can find is a picture, which is here. [1] yeah. so does anybody know what the formal name is for these things? A metal food cover. Like the ones you see in medieval movies, or fancy restaurants. Thanks in advance for your help, and if I could ask you, please post any answers you have on my talk page. I sometimes forget where to look for the answers. --Ninjawolf (talk) 02:46, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

dome plate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.8.100.71 (talk) 02:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cloche? --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ahoy, me hearty. "Dome cover" be what you're lookin for? [2] [3] , [4], [5] etc. Arrgh! (Shiver me timbers, it be International Talk Like a Pirate Day) Gwinva (talk) 03:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Avast & belay, Gwinva, all decent catering terms are french, arrrrr. Cloche. It be the plank for 'ee :) [6] [7] --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:16, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ahoy, cloches be for plants, Tagishsimon my matey, not food. Arrr, why do pirates need food co'ers, anyway? Aye. Gwinva (talk) 11:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Be this the Cloche of the Titans, ye scurvy bilge rats? Clarityfiend (talk) 16:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Domed serving tray" is the best I can find. Wedgwood (an up-scale tableware maker) apparently calls it a "Round Dome and Serving Tray", if their Amazon.com listing can be believed. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 00:39, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question about dish that is probably Korean

I'm reposting this question that was posted to the top of the page and probably wasn't seen before. Graham87 05:45, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I need help finding out about this one food dish (I believe it is Korean). It is gluttinous rice, molded and with some sort of thin, sweetened coat. The coat is very loose (like a dumpling), and it's brown. The rice is NOT ground or pounded. I've only eaten this dish once before, but couldn't get a name. If someone knows what I'm talking about, could you please tell me the name of this dish? I also heard that it is eaten with gimbap, but this may not be canon. Kikiluvscheese (talk) 05:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like inari [[sushi]. The brown coating is tofu. Is that eaten in Korea too? Saintrain (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that dish is a type of tteok, Korean rice cake. If these two are not the one you're looking for, you can browse Commons:Category:Tteok or Commons:Category:Cuisine of Korea. How does it taste? --Caspian blue (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sirutteok, steamed rice cake covered with azuki bean

Yes, yes! That's it, inari! I don't know why I was so sure it was Korean; that's probably why I didn't find it on my own. Thank you. Kikiluvscheese (talk) 03:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

why is attitude indicator set to 4 degree up in bell 212 helicopter

It is mandatory to put Attitude Direction indicator 4 degrres up in bell 212 helicopter. The reasons I have not been able to find out any where, but nevertheless the reason exists. Can anyone please help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.134.59.78 (talk) 06:19, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Without having found a specific source, it's likely a case of "true" level being distinct from the orientation of the gyros or whatever feeds the ADI on the aircraft. Maybe the 212 sits at a 4 degree angle when on the ground? It may also be a response to various 212 crashes -- I found examples of controlled flight into ground accidents that suggested the pilots were relying on the ADI for guidance when they crashed. 199.209.144.218 (talk) 13:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Zoosadism

I remember watching a history show a number of years ago and it detailed a famous historical political leader who as a child partook in zoosadism. Does anyone know who this was, it might have been Napoleon or some one like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 08:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

boredom

is it possible to acctually die of boredom? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 11:07, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indirectly, maybe. Boredom could cause depression, which could means you stop taking care of yourself, maybe even stop eating, and that could kill you. It would take days or weeks of boredom, though, one boring lecture isn't going to do it! --Tango (talk) 13:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. More like, depression causes boredom. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:04, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Although boredom is not mentioned you may find Motif of harmful sensation and Fatal hilarity interesting. -Phydaux (talk) 15:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you fell asleep at the wheel, that could do it pretty quick. --140.247.240.38 (talk) 16:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not, or I'd be a goner for sure. -- 79.71.223.82 (talk) 16:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

--Rustycoke (talk) 17:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you stop actively using your brain beyond what you can do alone, stop stimulating it (books, tv, social life, leaving the house once in a while, doing non-routine tasks, work, learning, etc.), then this probably could effectively also be bad for you. --Ouro (blah blah) 11:06, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I heard a story somewhere about two orphanages in Victorian England. One was much better funded than the other, but had a much higher baby mortality rate. It was found that, following contemporary ideas about child rearing, the attendants did not socially interact with the babies, who died from boredom/lack of attention, while the workers in the poorer institution were not so "enlightened". I have no idea if this is an old wives tale or what. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:39, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The story is interesting - but I don't think it answers the question. If the children were not regularly "interacted" with, then there would be a longer delay between one of them getting sick and one of the attendants noticing and summoning medical help - which would of course impact the mortality rate. The theory that it was "boredom" that killed them is still possible - but this anecdote doesn't really prove that. SteveBaker (talk) 20:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When you (anybody) are in a very stable place emotionally, see Harry_F._Harlow#Surrogate_mother_experiment. Saintrain (talk) 21:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't think so until reading this!

Walther Pistol

Have a MOD 1 Walther Pistol. Can't find it on any web site or when I took it to a antique road show. The paper in the box is two sided, one is in color with a blonde lady pulling the pistol out of her purse and an old black sedan.The other is a description written in german. Some one I found that knew a little german said he thought it was used during the nazi occupation and wasn't considered a real pistol becase they were outlawed at the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rustycoke (talk • contribs) 13:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a question? Algebraist 13:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We have a page on Walther arms - you may find the information you want there, or on one of the pages linked therein. If you want to know what the German writing means, you might want to ask at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 00:28, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Google Earth - how often does it update?

How long would I have to lie on my roof if I wanted to get onto the google earth? Do they update it bit by bit, or are they going to wait until they have everything at very high quality? Dolphus9091 (talk) 13:38, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Google Earth#Resolution and accuracy has some information. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 13:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you'd be better off tracking down the Google Van and getting on Google Street View. Useight (talk) 15:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2-3 years or so. You'll want to bring some snacks. Plasticup ^T/C 16:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Family History of James David Manning

Can you find out or direct me to where I can research the parentage of James David Manning? Below I have included the link to your article.

James David Manning

Abeytasback (talk) 18:00, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure, but if you knew his parents and where they were from, you might be able to backtrack a bit on ancestry.com, where you can view data from the 1880 and 1900 censuses mostly for free, and people in household for a few others. I'm afraid, looking at the article, he's going to be tough, though; probably too young for that, and not famous enough to be in one of the genealogy trees of famous people at www.genealogy.com. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.187.155 (talk) 20:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

chinese zodiac signs

I would like to find the characteristics of people born in the year of rabbit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.111.30.101 (talk) 23:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here you go (http://www.usbridalguide.com/special/chinesehoroscopes/Rabbit.htm) - the main characteristics it says are...Keen, Wise, Fragile, Tranquil, Serene, Considerate, Fashionable, Sneaky, Obsessive ny156uk (talk) 23:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or you could just walk into any cheap Chinese restaurant and look at the placemat. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:46, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

September 20

Political Surrogates

What exactly is the role/background of the term "surrogate" that I've heard used fairly often this election. Have I just missed it in previous elections or is it a new term? Is it worthy of a wikipedia article?

I-710 Long Beach Frwy extension

Will the I-710 in Los Angeles ever been extend? What does Pasadena have a big fight over extending the I-710? Is this because of houses or what makes it so arguemental to extend?Besdies neighborhood or what? is the I-710 extension further away from being successful than the SR 241 in Orange County?--57 Free ways 00:31, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So what's wrong with just putting the I-710 in. Elimination of many homes won't kill people. Do they have other excuse than just losing homes. pasadena just have strong opposition over the I-710 extension.--57 Free ways 00:41, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The obvious difficulty is that 'just losing homes' isn't really a small thing. If tomorrow you were told that you have 6 months to get out of your house because the land was being reclaimed for public-highways it might not be a big deal to you. If you've lived in the home for 20 years, or you feel a big sense of community around the local area then being made to leave the area to make way for a road-extension could be a big deal. Ultimately the government doesn't want to upset too many residents, doesn't want to get too much bad press, but will want to improve the road-networks. The counter-argument could just as easily be 'it's just a highway extension, other roads exist to get people where they need to go. Why do they need this road, not having it won't kill anyone'. There is no wrong and right, there is a need to compromise between both groups so that each can achieve something that is manageable and forward-thinking. ny156uk (talk) 10:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That extension would make my life much, much easier, but its not likely to happen. First of all the government would have to invoke eminent domain and evict alot of people from their property. This would mean kicking alot of very rich people with a whole lot of lawyers out of their homes. That means even getting the project started would cost millions in legal fees and a whole lot of bad publicity even before they pay for the property. Just because its not killing anyone isn't enough reason to do it, you're taking innocent people's property by force, you have to prove its justified. This means alot of expensive civil engineering studies to prove the benefits. It's a very long uphill battle before it gets done. -- Mad031683 (talk) 21:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Larry King

When you call Larry King, what are you asked? 66.53.220.172 (talk) 02:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Presumable to succinctly present your question/statement to the call-screener. If you want more detail I know a cheap way to find out. Plasticup ^T/C 04:32, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

City name

name of city or town that means dry grass and a cave. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.151.79 (talk) 05:01, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Created new section for question. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:25, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

?? Hayden, Alabama. Hayden, Arizona. Hayden, Colorado. Hayden, Idaho.86.4.187.55 (talk) 08:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Destructive power of securitization?

Can someone explain to me this section of our subprime article?

"Securitization is a structured finance process in which assets, receivables or financial instruments are acquired, classified into pools, and offered as collateral for third-party investment.[53] There are many parties involved. Due to securitization, investor appetite for mortgage-backed securities (MBS), and the tendency of rating agencies to assign investment-grade ratings to MBS, loans with a high risk of default could be originated, packaged and the risk readily transferred to others. Asset securitization began with the structured financing of mortgage pools in the 1970s.[54] The securitized share of subprime mortgages (i.e., those passed to third-party investors) increased from 54% in 2001, to 75% in 2006.[46] Alan Greenspan stated that the securitization of home loans for people with poor credit — not the loans themselves — was to blame for the current global credit crisis.[55]"

So let's say 2-3 million loans default and banks take the hit. Why would that effect be so much less dire than a securitized package failing?

Lotsofissues (talk) 11:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That loss would all be taken by someone that had consciously decided to take a high risk investment (in exchange for higher return), those that wanted a low risk investment wouldn't lose anything. It all goes wrong when far more people default that expected and the so-called "low risk" investments start losing money because all the high risk investments are used up. --Tango (talk) 12:03, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also note that large losses in the securitisation entity means that the low-risk tranches suffer mark to market losses even though they experienced no direct losses (all the tranches are revalued by the market after a certain "trigger event" occurs) and remember that the rating agencies gave these assets AAA ratings. These losses were very large over the last year or so becasue no one wanted to buy any tranches. And I think Greenspan was saying that the availability of securitisation enabled lenders to free up capital to underwrite more subprime loans. Much more than they would have if they had to keep all the original loans. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Securitization is awesome and is not the problem here. The problem is that people bought these CDOs without understanding what they were, and now the market for them has seized up. It is hard to mark to market when the market is totally illiquid! Some of the the underlying securities are solid, but no one can/wants to buy them. That is why the government bailout is such a great idea. The Government can buy tons of these securities, which gives the banks the cash they need now (saving the financial system), and the Government can hold the securities to maturity a probably reap a small profit. Hooray! Plasticup ^T/C 15:31, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately it is not at all clear that these securities are worth what the government is paying for them and it is also not at all certain that if the banks just get some liquidity they will be healthy again. Comrade Paulson is taking a big risk. 194.171.56.13 (talk) 19:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is infinitely better than the alternative. Plasticup ^T/C 04:13, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

September 21

How can there be more than one singularity?

Supposedly, at the bottom of every black hole, lies a singularity. A one point, eternal, foundation of nowhere and nowhen. How is this possible? Is it mathematically related to infinite subsets of infinity? i.e. {all even numbers}, {all numbers greater that 16} {all fractions between 1 and 2}, etc.

For that matter, what exactly is a singularity? I realize we're all gonna find out any day now, but it still would be nice to know something in advance. I'm not into visiting places on Earth I know nothing about, and I aint to crazy about being yanked out of town to visit Singularityville. So if it isn't too much trouble, please brief me a little about the weather, interesting places to visit, etc so I can at least make the best of it. :)--Dr. Carefree (talk) 03:42, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you've worn out this topic on the Science desk. Is that why you brought it here, or is your intention simply to share your irrational fear with others? --Scray (talk) 04:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You may find this interesting. --Tango (talk) 11:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Singularity" in the context of a black hole means a mathematical singularity. The theory (general relativity) breaks down there; nobody believes that it correctly predicts the "breakdown of the real world". So, it isn't possible. Also, we're not going to find out any day now, since (a) the LHC is currently out of commission pending repairs that will take months, (b) it will take months to years of data collection and analysis to identify new phenomena at a high confidence level, (c) it's very unlikely that the LHC will produce black holes to begin with, and (d) observing a black hole in the lab wouldn't tell us what's happening inside the event horizon. -- BenRG (talk) 11:56, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I brought this topic here because I wasn't quite sure if this was math, science, or what. Sorry if I was beating a dead horse, but yes, I've been thinking alot about black holes per my Science Desk posts. I'm a really curious person, and as any scientist can tell you, one question often leads to many others.

I was more interested in the first question, anyways. Because, from a logical standpoint, "many singularities" doesnt seem to make any more sense than "many infinities". The second half was just a humorous attempt (note the smiley face) to pad a worst case scenerio so it can sit in my mind somewhat comfortably. I think about worst case scenerios alot, because like any uncomfortable guest, -once you stop paying attention, he's likely to trash the place.Dr. Carefree (talk) 18:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Many infinities does make sense, though. If we consider regular Euclidean space, you can think of an infinity in every direction - each direction yields a different point at infinity. Singularities can, in the right coordinate system, be thought of as points at infinity, and there can be more than one of them. Also, I don't believe there is any requirement in general relativity for there to exist a single coordinate system describing the whole of a given space, you may have to patch together different systems in order to describe the whole space - there could be only one singularity per patch. --Tango (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see how 'many singularities' makes any less sense than 'several units'. --ColinFine (talk) 22:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Damper Pedal

Well, about the squeaking pedal in this question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#Squeaking_Pedal , it's not the bottom part of the pedal squeaking, but the mechanism inside the piano. How can you lubricate the mechanism?

btw, I can't reach the thing inside ;) 220.244.109.31 (talk) 05:49, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that graphite powder is probably the way to go. Have you managed to get the front panel off? They usually come away quite easily without requiring any tools. Further to that I suggest you find a piano forum where you can get expert advice.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:38, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming it's an upright of normal design:

Open the lid
find the toggles at either end that hold the front panel in, and turn them to release it
lift out the front panel
the mechanism is held in by two or more screw fasteners. Unscrew these, and you can lift the entire mechanism out.

You'll find the pedal mechanism is a vertical rod at one side or the other, which lifts a lever on the mechanism.

Good luck --ColinFine (talk) 22:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Einstein refrigerator

Moved to the science desk. My mistake. --antilived^{T | C | G} 10:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"God created the inegers" by stephen hawking

Im thinking of getting this book. Do you think Id be able to understand it? Im an A-level student doing the sciences and maths. --RMFan1 (talk) 13:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've never read it, but it looks like it contains actual mathematical papers, so you will probably struggle to understand it all of it. However, that's no reason no to give it a go - try and understand as much as you can, and then come back to it in few years once you've got a greater mathematical background. I read a book on p-adic numbers in my 1st year of Uni that was very much over my head, but I'm now reading it again because I'm going to do my 4th year project on them - having read it before (even though I didn't understand much of it) meant I knew I found the topic interesting enough to do a project on, and gives me a head start in understanding the book the second time through. --Tango (talk) 14:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It depends what you are looking for. God Created the Integers is a collection of English translations of 31 important works in the history of mathematics, from Euclid to Alan Turing. There is some introductory material about each author written by Hawking, but it does not attempt to explain the concepts of mathematics in any systematic way. Some parts, such as Turing's paper On Computable Numbers, are reasonably accessible, but most parts are mainly of historical interest. If you are looking for a general introduction to mathematics you will probably be better off with something like Ian Stewart's From Here to Infinity or Courant and Robbins' What is Mathematics?. Gandalf61 (talk) 15:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The newly released Princeton Companion to Mathematics is also at about the right level, and looks very good (disclosure: I am acquainted with two of the editors). Algebraist 18:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you could rent it from the library (no charge!) and find out for yourself without dishing out X amount of dollars for something that might as well be in another language? --71.98.24.10 (talk) 02:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two questions regarding the movie - Wanted

1. Is it really possible to curve the bullet? 2. Is there a bath anything like that showed in the movie, that can refresh / cure your body? --V4vijayakumar (talk) 13:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1. Not practically. In order to change an objects direction, you need to apply a force when the object is changing directions. Once the bullet leaves the gun, any force given to the gun stops, leaving the bullet to travel in a straight line. Only forces which act on the bullet after it leaves the gun can curve its trajectory. One of these is gravity. Like any object, a bullet will curve downward in the shape of a parabola. (Not what you're looking for, though.) The only other force which can act is aerodynamics. It may be theoretically possible to get a "curve" on a bullet by shaping the exterior of the bullet such that it generates an aerodynamic force. This is what causes the curve of a curveball. Any force would likely be minor, though, and unlikely to do things like you see in the Wanted trailers. Additionally, most guns are rifled, to spin the bullet and stabilize it. You would need a special gun to shoot your curve-bullet.

2. Haven't seen the movie, but if there was a bath which had remarkable regenerative powers, Hollywood would be using it left and right, and we'd be plagued with late-night infomercials for "at home" regenerative baths. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 23:28, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, and no. And to preempt your next question, there is also no secret cult of assassins talking to God through a loom. Plasticup ^T/C 04:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But the movie is excellent, ain't it? --Ouro (blah blah) 06:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't think so, no. I even went in expecting a dumb and exciting action movie, but it had pretensions of being so much more. I don't mind dumb movies that don't take themselves seriously, but there is nothing worse than a bad movie that tries to be "deep". Plasticup ^T/C 04:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's possible (theoretically) to have a bullet curve in flight...but we have to be careful how we describe this:

Newtons' laws of motion requires that some outside force is applied in order to have the bullet change direction after it leaves the gun. A bullet fired in a vacuum would require little 'rocket thrusters' to apply forces to make it curve. But in air, there are some other options.

Soccer players and baseball pitchers can easily cause a ball to curve...to change direction after the 'projectile' has left the 'launcher'. They do this by spinning the ball and rely on the fact that air drag increases as the square of the velocity - so the side of the ball that's rotating forwards gets more drag than the side that's rotating backwards - hence the drag force through the air is asymmetrical and the ball curves in flight. It would be perfectly feasible to construct a gun that spun the bullet to make it curve in flight. However, that curve would be 'built in' to the way the bullet was spinning as it left the barrel.

However, one could imagine a bullet containing a gyroscope with a teeny-tiny motor and battery to change the rate of spin of the outside of the bullet by rotating the gyroscope in the opposite direction. A sensor in the nose of the bullet - or radio control from the gun - could cause the motor to spin up or slow down - and thereby steer the aerodynamic curve of the bullet after it left the gun. Alternatively, the bullet could pop out little fins and steer itself like a missile - or use tiny jets of compressed air to adjust its trajectory. So it's not 100% impossible...in theory at least.

If the bullet aimed itself using some kind of tiny thermal camera - then it's possible that it could be fired from a conventional gun. The spin imparted by the gun would greatly complicate matters - but an undersized and very hard bullet would fail to adhere to the spiral 'rifleing' inside the barrel so it wouldn't spin so much - and whatever gyro/thruster/fin mechanism steers it could be designed to remove any undesirable spin or account for it while steering.

SteveBaker (talk) 11:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the movie the bullet travels in a complete circle. I haven't taken a physics class in a while, but changing the direction that much would require as much energy as was originally put into the bullet, yes? Maybe? Plasticup ^T/C 04:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily. Planets don't require any energy to keep them in orbit. If you had some centripetal force (eg a piece of string fixed to a central point), the force would change the bullet's velocity but not its speed, and therefore not its kinetic energy. --ColinFine (talk) 22:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Applying to Cambridge

I got 3 Bs and a C at AS level but only because I had a shit year, didnt study much etc. But I am definitely capable of all As. So Im working my ass of this year and think I can end up with 3 As at A level and could get the C at AS up to an A as well. So I think I can get the grades required for a competitive application to cambridge but since i have to apply now, all they're going to see is what Ive got right now: 3 Bs and a C. Is there any chance of them giving me a conditional offer, the condition being I get my grades up to As or whatever? Or is there a way I could explain that I am capable of getting the required grades so that they at least consider me? From my knowledge of how applying works, I fear that as soon as they see my current grades they'll turn me down and I won't have a chance of getting in --RMFan1 (talk) 14:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that you may be right, Cambridge is likely too look at your current grades and your predictions and say, NO. You have a chance though if you got very good GCSE grades and write an excellent personal statement, you might get an interview, and if you do it had better go very well for yo to have a chance. But really, no I'm sorry it's not likely. Harland1 (^t/_c) 14:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They may consider your expected grades, rather than you currently obtained grades, do your teachers agree that you can get them to A's? I think you would need to give a very good reason for having done badly in the 1st year ("didn't study much" isn't going to cut it!). If they give you an offer, it will almost always be conditional (they sometimes give low offers (3 E's, say) to extremely good applicants that they really want and don't want to lose just because they have a bad day for the exam, but they don't give many of those). Cambridge will also require something more than just good grades to get in - if you have some impressive extra-curricular stuff it would definitely help. (Disclaimer: I applied to Cambridge, reached the interview stage, but was rejected, so I'm not an expert on how to get in! I suspect the lack of any good extra-curricular stuff let me down.) --Tango (talk) 14:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well my teachers feel the same way I do, I was too lazy at AS so until they see that I am working hard this year I dont think theres anything they can do. As for extra-curricular activities, rowing will definitely give me a boost, I am a prefect, and am taking part in other activities but i doubt that alone will make much of a difference --RMFan1 (talk) 14:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If it's just that you didn't work hard last year, I really don't think you'll be able to get in. You could try taking a gap year and applying afterwards once you have your A-level results and have done something worthwhile for a year, but it's a long shot (and they'll want to know why you didn't apply now and just defer, which is the usual way of taking a gap year). You're probably better off settling for another Uni. --Tango (talk) 14:38, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do have a good read through [8], as well as speaking to your school's careers advisor. DuncanHill (talk) 14:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If a selective school has a choice between an applicant who got bad or mediocre grades and has hopes or promises of getting better grades, and another applicant who got good grades consistently, the school is ikely to take the student with the unblemished record, unless there are countervailing factors in favor of the less diligent scholar, such as a desire for geographical balance in the student body, athletic prowess, influential relatives or relatives likely to donate huge sums of money to the school. It is pretty common for people who have had a bad year to aspire to do better. It does not always happen. Edison (talk) 15:25, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know the particulars of the English system or your personal resources but if you, say, were in the US, I'd tell you to try and find a real college counselor (e.g. the type that work for expensive private schools, not the schmoes they use at public schools who get paid a shit salary), because someone like that can really make the difference in applications and can tell you with reasonable precision what your options really are. Hiring one for personal work is not cheap but if you're serious about playing in the big leagues they can make the difference, at least in the US. Most people who don't experience with those sorts of institutions directly are not aware of how vital someone like that can be. It's not about shady dealings (at those levels of education, money doesn't mean much unless you've REALLY got it), it's about knowing exactly how the admission offices of these sorts of institutions work and knowing exactly how to market the student. (And knowing what's a lost cause.) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of anyone in the UK paying for someone to help them fill out Uni applications. Most schools/colleges will have people that can help, though, and it's a good idea to talk to them. --Tango (talk) 20:14, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The important step in getting into Cambridge is to perform well at interview, not to fill in the form well. There are certainly people who charge (a lot of) money to coach people for the interview. Of course, a good school will do this for free. Algebraist 21:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Even if you got 5 As at AS you would not necessarily get an interview at Oxbridge. But why fret about it? Sounds like you will get the grades to get into into a good "pre-1992" uni and so long as you work consistently you'll enjoy your time and do really well there. If that doesn't appeal, then consider doing an apprenticeship and earning some money straight away. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the benefit of non-UK readers, what is "AS?" In the US there is high school. Edison (talk) 23:01, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The last two years of what you would call High school is what we call sixth form. Just under half of 16-18 year olds take the traditional "General Certificate of Education Advanced level" university entrance route in this phase. They can study either in the same school where they were from 11-16 or in a sixth form college or in a further education college, depending on what the set-up is in the area where they live. After one year, students take Advanced Subsidiary Level (AS), usually in four or five subjects. Then in the second year they go on to take A2, usually in three to four subjects. The pass grades are A, B, C, D and E. You apply to uni through UCAS at the start of your second year (i.e. about now), when you know your AS grades and your teachers predict your A2 grades. The unis give offers conditional on obtaining certain grades at A2. Generally speaking, Oxford and Cambridge universities (the equivalent of your Ivy League) are looking for straight As. Other internationally-renowned universities might want ABB at A2. Even if you only get two Es, you can probably get in somewhere to do something, but at that point you really do need good careers advice. The above applies in England. Totally different in Scotland. Itsmejudith (talk) 23:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See also Advanced Level (UK), for examination & assessment details. Gwinva (talk) 23:22, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To the OP: if you really want to go to Cambridge, then give a shot...you'll never know unless you try. It might also depend on what school you now attend: in an attempt to widen the applications (ie get a balance of people from various education backgrounds), Oxbridge have in the past interviewed some students with low grades, if they believed they might achieve higher results given a better environment. But while Cambridge has a certain name and status, there are many other quality universities in the UK worth considering. Depending on your subject, your extra-curricular interests, or your socialising preferences, other universities might be more suitable (just one example: if you like city life, you might find Cambridge too small). Talk to people you know who have been to different universities. Visit some of them. Consider the lecture sizes, the pastoral care and support, the cost of living, the student facilities and accommodation, the availability of part time work to supplement your money, and so on. Gwinva (talk) 23:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You have other university choices to fall back on, so you might as well apply to Cambridge if you really want to. You will, needless to say, have to devote part of your personal statement to explaining your low AS grades, and it may be advisable to ring the admissions secretary or similar at the college you apply to (don't submit an open application in your situation) in order to clarify your chances. If you get rejected before the interview stage, then it is still worth attempting to ring up or communicate directly with the college to argue your case. As was mentioned before, however, I think it would be best to take a year out and wait for your A2 results before applying.--Diniz (talk) 23:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you're not familiar with Cambridge, go and take a look around, and also look at some other universities with good reputations in the subject you wish to study. If your heart is still set on Cambridge, I'd go for the year out option - the chances of being interviewed for Cambridge with BBBC at AS are slim; the chances of being interviewed with AAA achieved at A level are high, and you may be able to use the year out to gain some valuable relevant experience. If a year out isn't an option, then by all means apply to Cambridge, but don't expect too much, and look seriously at your other options - BBBC should get you offers on most courses at most universities. Part of my job involves working on university admissions; most of the advice above looks sound to me, but don't think of getting someone else to write your personal statement - we would take a very dim view of this, and have in the past withdrawn offers due to personal statements being plagiarised from websites. Warofdreams talk 09:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your advice guys. If I applied to the unis I want to go to this year including cambridge and say cambridge didnt give me an offer. Then at A2 I did in fact achieve all As and decided I wanted to take a gap year to try and get into cambridge the following year, would I be at any disadvantage because of the fact Ive already applied or would they still have to reconsider me? --RMFan1 (talk) 14:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't say for sure whether this would put you at a disadvantage, but I'm sure that Cambridge would have your previous rejection on file, and might choose to take it in to account. Universities have to, on request, give reasons for their rejections, and if this situation did arise, it might be wise to check the reason (to see if the rejection is solely on the grounds of your predicted grades), and enquire directly from the department you are applying to how they would view an application based on actual grades, after a year out. Warofdreams talk 15:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Laminated padlocks

What exactly is a laminated padlock? What is the lamination, that is :-) Thanks! ╟─Treasury§Tag►contribs─╢ 15:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The word "laminated" appears to be in the sense of "flat plate" (which I think is what a lamina is but haven't looked it up). Thus a laminated padlock is one made of stacked metal plates instead of a solid block of metal. Look at "laminated padlock" on Google Images. Also, this on Answers.com has a clear explanation (paragraph beginning "In the early 1920s...").--212.248.232.249 (talk) 16:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, thanks. Would you happen to know what the security benefit of such a structure is? ╟─Treasury§Tag►contribs─╢ 16:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There may be better answers, but my sense has always been that they are easy to manufacture, but not the ideal design from a security standpoint. --Scray (talk) 20:23, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From Master Lock: About Us: "In 1919, locksmith and inventor Harry Soref had a thought: if bank vault doors and battle ships were built in laminated layers of steel for greater strength, why not make padlocks the same way?" Note that this is compared to the hollow locks then in use - no word on if laminated locks are better than solid locks. However, constructing the lock out of many thinner layers may allow you to use a better grade of steel, one that might be impossible or very expensive to machine a solid padlock from. So while a solid padlock made of the same material might be better (although I can't say for sure), at a given price point you may be able to afford a better quality laminated lock than a solid lock. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 23:14, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With the laminated locks, you only have to hacksaw or drill through the two rivets that hold it together. Those don't seem to be as hard as the shackle - and they probably can't be because they have to be soft enough to form as rivets. So for that reason, I presume the laminated kind are somewhat less secure than the solid body kind. However, it's possible that some detail of the construction of solid padlocks makes them less secure for some other reason. SteveBaker (talk) 00:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One possibility is face-hardening: you can only face-harden the surface of a piece of metal, but a laminated lock has far more faces to work with, so you can make hard all the way through, rather than just having a hardened outer shell. --Carnildo (talk) 22:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2008 China Milk Scare

Generally speaking, will the babies that are affected by the melanin in the 2008 China Milk scandal recover from their kidney stones? Or will they suffer permanent kidney damages? Acceptable (talk) 15:59, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since, as far as I know, there were some deaths reported among the infected babies, I'd say the damage is rather permanent. Start here. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From melamine: "these melamine cyanurate crystals don’t dissolve easily. They go away slowly, if at all, so there is the potential for chronic toxicity.", so I'm guessing yes. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shipping cost, cheapest prices

What would be the cheapest way to ship a 20" - 24" CRT television from Colorado to Texas? Ground shipping would be the cheapest, of course and I am pretty sure USPS would be the cheapest carrier. However, I am not familiar with the way I can minimize my shipping costs. Please advise. Kushal (talk) 16:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend using eBay's "Shipping calculator". The cost depends on both the size and weight of your package. I'd guess that a 24" TV would need a 30"x30"x30" box and probably weighs about 30lbs. That's too flat out too big and too heavy for USPS. UPS Ground will charge you $130! (UPS Air, next day deliver is $750!!!) No matter what, something that heavy will be costly to ship. Have you considered selling your TV in Colorado and buying a new one in Texas? You can pick up a used 24" TV in Dallas for ~$35 (I looked on Craigslist for about 30 seconds and found three at around that price) - you could do even better if you spent an afternoon cruising local garage sales. I'd be very surprised if you could ship your TV to Texas for as little as $35 - so even if you gave away your TV for $0 - you'd still be better off! Another consideration: Dunno whether you intend to get cable or satellite when you arrive in Texas - but remember that the impending change to digital TV in February means that there will be an awful lot of old Analog TV's on the market very soon! SteveBaker (talk) 21:08, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I do have cable, SteveBaker. I am not worried about the transition at all (who watches over the air, anyways?). A second television would be great. I can certainly wait for the old Analog TVs. Do you have any idea when this junk will start arriving in the market? I am giving the TV in Colorado away. There's no point. Kushal (talk) 22:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Full-power terrestrial broadcasts using the analog NTSC standard will be required by law to cease by February 17, 2009." (see List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country#United_States). People can buy convertors - and there is a government voucher program to assist people with buying them - and cable/satellite TV will support analog TV for some time to come - so it's not like analog TV's suddenly become worthless. However, the end of the line for analog TV is on the horizon and people will presumably start replacing them as the deadline looms. So I presume (without proof) that the cost of used analog TVs has already dropped - or will soon start to drop.

At any rate - the answer to your original question remains the same - don't ship your TV - dump the old one and buy a used one in Texas to replace it. SteveBaker (talk) 23:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, Steve. You have been most helpful. Kushal (talk) 21:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Roommates and Sex

What does one do when one has been walked in on by one's roommate during sex? There was a warning sock on the door handle, so he just misunderstood, but I have no idea whether I should apologize, or leave for a week, or what.

So, what does one do?

146.57.84.68 (talk) 17:49, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Laugh it off? You should probably talk about it to ensure it won't happen again - clearly he wasn't familiar with the sock convention. --Tango (talk) 18:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've always thought it was pretty mandatory to have a "sex talk" with the roommate early on. Make sure you're on the same base with the conventions (socks on doors) and some basic rules (stay in your own bed, be courteous about how you are forcing people out of the room, don't be a pig about it during exams, etc.). Figure out, say, whether it is acceptable to have people occasionally spend the night (which is a burden on the other roommate and so should probably be limited). You probably should have already done that but now that you've had this you should confront it directly and have a good sit down over it. Don't overreact and don't be overly embarrassed but try to be sympathetic to your roommate, esp. if he is not actually going to likely be having over many ladyfolk of his own. In almost all roommate interactions the best policy is to know where the boundaries are and to then respect them—that way there are no surprises, no irritations, no awkward moments. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My kid just started at college and although they have individual bedrooms, they do share apartments. The college gives every student a copy of "The Naked Roommate: And 107 Other Issues You Might Run Into in College" by Harlan Cohen. It's a really good book (and funny too) that covers exactly this kind of situation. I strongly recommend it for both you and your ~~victim~~roommate. SteveBaker (talk) 20:46, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Get a room! Your roommate is paying as much as you are. The only excuse for excluding the roommate from enjoyment of the premises is that the roommate has an equal expectation of privacy for such lyrical interludes as yours that that was briefly interrupted. You certainly have no expectation of seizing exclusive use of the room overnight, with the roommate left to sleep in a chair in the lounge. Get the dirty deed done, and send the correspondent on the "walk of shame" back to his/her residence. Edison (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You could always invite him for a threesome I guess. -mattbuck (Talk) 23:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd never heard of the sock convention. Good thing to know (although I think it unlikely I'll ever be living in an American dorm). Steewi (talk) 23:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My room mate and I were able to talk about it. Whenever one of us had a friend over the other would sleep on the couch. Neither of us really abused the situation, and it worked out fine. It doesn't have to be a big deal if you both talk sensibly about it. Plasticup ^T/C 04:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Any Way I could hear how this sounds?

Image talk:Lead Sheet.jpg Could someone upload a music file playing this short? (I'll give you a barnstar!)--Ye Olde Luke (talk) 19:26, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I made a MIDI file. www.geocities.com/bavi_h/Lead.mid --Bavi H (talk) 01:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar pimp! Plasticup ^T/C 04:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

that actually sounds pretty cool. Thanks Bavi! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ye Olde Luke (talk • contribs) 23:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I want this headwear

[9] What's it called? Looks like I'll head to Turkmenistan one day. Lotsofissues (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This page says it's a 'telpek'. Steewi (talk) 23:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

September 22

Health draw (dessin santé)

I m wondering if the "sun"; that suposed to reflect the father; could reflect "autority" too? Thank you for your time and devotion, Marie-Eve —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.55.245.184 (talk) 00:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Son or sun? Plasticup ^T/C 04:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Potentially, both. The ambiguity is possible when the picture on French website dessin santé is read by an English speaker. But I don't think we can give an answer, as the point of the website seems to be that your personal interpretation of the picture is supposed to reveal insights into your psychological make-up. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which means, yeah, if you see a way that it could reflect authority, then it does. It depends entirely on whomever is viewing the picture. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 23:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Debt (and more)

Since the United States has such a staggering debt and is spending so much money on things such as bailing out gigantor bank companies and fighting terrorists in the Middle East, why can't the treasury just whip up a $50,000,000,000,000 bill to cover the debt and save all the failing companies? 75.169.212.113 (talk) 02:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because that would reduce the value of all the other money. It's is called inflation, or even hyperinflation. The Weimar Republic used that trick once. Zimbabwe is using it now. The consequences are disastrous. Plasticup ^T/C 03:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply. Just curious, if you don't mind my further inquiring, how does this devalue all other money? Why does this devalue money? It would seem that, with the elimination of debt that an economy would perhaps rebound, but apparently not so? 75.169.212.113 (talk) 03:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Think of it this way. You have one vase. It's so beautiful that someone will pay you $100 for it. If you had two then you should get $200, right? Not really. Because the person buying it wants that one special vase. The more there are, the less someone will pay for it. Some economist is probably going to tell me that my comparison is flawed in a lot of ways but the basics are basically the same. If you pour a bunch of something into a market, the price or value should go down. And I think that Plasticup meant the Weimar Republic. Dismas|^(talk) 03:46, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I did mean the Weimar Republic, and you edit-conflicted my correction! Plasticup ^T/C 03:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Imagine that a market is selling 5 apples. 5 people show up, each with $1. The market equilibrium price is $1 per apple. Now imagine that the government prints a whole load of money, and everyone at the market has $3 each. When they show up to buy the 5 apples each of them can offer more, trying to outbid the others, and the market equilibrium price will rise to $3. Dismas's explaination is pretty good, just backwards. Plasticup ^T/C 03:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If the government prints more money - then someone somewhere ends up with more money - that eventually gets into the economy and makes lots of people have more money. Suppose everyone magically wins a million dollars - nobody will go to work for $10 per hour - if nobody works, no food is grown, no products are on the shelves - we all die. Hence salaries have to go up enough so that people will work - $1000 an hour will do that. That'll drive prices up. Pretty soon, people will need to work because a loaf of bread costs a thousand dollars.

If those were the only consequences, maybe we wouldn't care - just write an extra zero on the end of all of the bank notes every year and nobody cares - right?

Sadly, no. The process of money losing value is devastating. Anyone who has been saving suddenly finds that the money they had doesn't buy anything anymore - inflation is like stealing money from careful savers and rewarding people who run up large credit card debts. However, many of the people who are sitting on large piles of "saved" money are banks and investors who lend it out to people...when they see their large pile of cash shrinking in value due to inflation, they try to make it grow more quickly by pushing up borrower's interest rates. That means that the people who have shrinking debts now get stung with high interest rates on those debts - which is bad for them too. All of this is disruptive and scares people - confidence in the currency is lost - other countries no longer want to trade X of their currency for Y amount of dollars - they start to demand 2Y dollars. As your currency falls in value, initially, it seems like a good thing. Your goods that you make for Y dollars now sell for X/2 in other countries so your exports start to look attractive. Sadly, things you used to be able to buy for Y dollars from China - now cost 2Y dollars - which pushes prices up...more inflation.

Inflation is tough to control - prices go up - people demand more wages - that increases prices - round and round. Government is not immune to price rises - they have to buy stuff too, but increasing taxes while prices are spiralling upwards is VERY unpopular. So instead of raising taxes - they print more money. The more money they print, the worse things get. Pretty soon it takes a wheelbarrow full of dollar bills to buy a loaf of bread...then a truckload. People DARE not save...as soon as they get their pay, they must rush out and spend it all on...anything...because within a few days, it's going to be worth nothing. Now nobody dares to save - so there is no capital to be had to start businesses, to buy machinery. Industry is rapidly crippled. Unemployment and food shortages are inevitable. Before you know it, you're a third-world country.

So you can't print money to get yourself out of a crisis...although that is precisely what the US government are doing.

SteveBaker (talk) 03:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, you are describing hyperinflation, which is many many orders of magnitude larger than regular old 3-20% inflation. Mild to moderate inflation isn't that bad, especially when it is steady. Secondly, that is not what the U.S. Government is doing. They are financing their debt through the sale of securities, not by printing money. Your solution causes inflation, their solution causes a government deficit. Plasticup ^T/C 04:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So with the Government's staggering debt, how do they correct it? How can they possibly spend so much money when they are trillions of dollars in debt? I'm not really sure how the system works. --71.98.24.10 (talk) 22:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Government debt takes the form of "promises to pay", known as bonds. Basically, somebody has loaned the government $10 trillion, and the government is going to pay it off (with interest) over the course of the next fifty years or so. The money for payoff comes from taxes and from issuing more bonds (and other, more complicated sources). --Carnildo (talk) 23:05, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, basically, being $9.7 trillion in debt is a lot less bad than it sounds? --71.98.24.10 (talk) 02:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's normal for governments to operate with a certain amount of debt. During recession, this usually increases: deficit spending can be used to restimulate, or at least hold up, the economy. See also Keynesian economics: a theory/model which illustrates how deficit spending works during recessions. Gwinva (talk) 03:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gasoline Consumption

What would use up more gas: using the air conditioner or wind resistance from having the windows down? i must know, i live in the freaking desert!the juggresurection ^{(>-.-(Vಠ_ಠ)} 03:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would imagine that this depends on how fast you go, the faster you go, the more effecient the AC becomes when compared to opening the windows, since the wind resistence will increase with the speed of the car. - Akamad (talk) 03:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

well, on my way to my college campus, i encounter speed limits varying between 35 and 55 mph. the juggresurection ^{(>-.-(Vಠ_ಠ)} 03:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This was covered by a Mythbusters episode. According to our article, windows down is better below 50 mph. As I recall however, they didn't test it in the desert. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:24, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

cool. thank you, as you can imagine with gas prices these days, any kind of gas reducing technique will help. the juggresurection ^{(>-.-(Vಠ_ಠ)} 03:27, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mythbusters did a really careful set of tests on this and decided that there was a threshold speed - above which closing the windows and turning on the AC was more fuel-efficient than turning off the AC and opening the windows. However, what that speed is will depend on the kind of car you drive. I believe that the threshold is likely to lie somewhere between 35 and 55mph though - so you might find yourself opening and closing windows like a madman as you do your daily drive in an effort to optimise your gas consumption. That would be bad because every time you open the windows, all of that cool air spills out and when you close them again, the AC will have to work hard to get the temperature back down again. I suggest that a simple rule would be to close windows and turn on the AC for freeway driving and open the windows and turn off the AC when you're in town. Sadly, I find that the reverse is comfortable. Here in Texas, 110F daytime temperatures are possible. At low speeds, the airflow isn't enough to compensate for the higher air temperatures so I NEED the windows to be closed and the AC to be on. Airflow only cools you down when the ambient air is below body temperature - once the thermometer hits 100F - forget opening the windows! But the savings are of the order of 5% for small cars and much less for big SUV's - so it's not that big a deal. You can get better fuel savings by driving a manual transmission car and shifting so as to keep the RPM's solidly in the 2000 to 3000 range (especially when accellerating). SteveBaker (talk) 03:34, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really like that Mythbusters experiment: the 2 car experiment they did had the AC on full blast for the whole journey, and they had to wear heavy jackets and things to keep warm. Who would do that? If the AC was left at a sane setting I think it would have lasted a lot longer. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:13, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I live over here in central Arizona, and at this time of the year, its starting to get cooler out, so i might not have to worry about it for very much longer. but as far as what car i drive, its a 1992 Ford Crown Victoria LTD Police edition. not very car savvy so i couldnt tell you the engine size or anything.the juggresurection ^{(>-.-(Vಠ_ಠ)} 03:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why do American Colleges have two people per dorm room?

Why do American Colleges have two people per dorm room? It also can happen in the UK, but 1 per room is much more common and generally the two per room only applies to non-first year students who choose to do this. -- SGBailey (talk) 05:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's pretty obvious that the reason to stuff multiple students in a room is money. As to why this would be different between the States and the UK, I don't really know, but I can speculate that more of the American dorms were built more recently, and the market conditions had changed (though I don't know in exactly what way). As a possible data point, at Caltech, where I did my undergrad, there were two groups of houses (see House System at the California Institute of Technology), called the old houses and new houses. The old houses were built in the 1930s and had mostly single rooms; the new houses were built in the sixties or so and had mostly doubles. --Trovatore (talk) 07:25, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dorm rooms for more than one person are the norm in Poland wherever you go, with fairly typical rooms having 2-4 persons, in a variety of configurations (i. e. two double/triple rooms sharing a bathroom and kitchen area). The obvious reason is money, furthermore it's easier to build fewer doubles than more singles, and allows to house more people in a building of roughly the same volume. Rooms for multiple persons can also induce socialisation, which is what dorm life is about after all. A single room is considered a luxury here, although I have had the pleasure of living in a single room in a dorm in Cologne in Germany, where nine single rooms shared a common room, kitchen and four bathrooms on one half of a dorm floor. Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 09:31, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think there's a supervision aspect to it, as well as the financial one. Roommates watch each other. Suicidally depressed people often get reported to the college authorities by their roommates, etc. Darkspots (talk) 10:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So we have several reasons for having double rooms, but none for why they should exist in some places but not in others (Trovatore's speculation fails, alas; many UK universities have been built since the '60s, and the rest all have lots of new accommodation, but little of it is double-rooms). Here's my random try: is it normal in the US for undergraduates to be offered accommodation by their college throughout their degree? It isn't in the UK, so that could explain the difference. Algebraist 11:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When I was at an old UK university the newer dorms almost all had single rooms, whereas the older ones had shared rooms. I was told that the older shared rooms used to be single rooms, because pre-launderette and pre central heating one person would need the space for coal scuttles, ash pans, drying racks and ironing boards. In the 70s my clothes never saw an Iron unless I went home to my parent's house but in Victorian times evidently suite shirt and tie and neat appearance was the order of the day. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is a false premise here. Not all US colleges work that way. My son is at the University of Texas at Dallas - they have apartments with four small study/bedrooms for four students. There is a shared kitchen, laundry-room, balcony, storage space and lounge area plus two full bathrooms. The apartments are unfurnished - although they come with a full set of appliances (Cooker, fridge, washer, drier) and there are built-in desks in each bedroom. The bedrooms are small - but perfectly adequate for one person. SteveBaker (talk) 11:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The premiss can, I think, be saved by the word 'usually'. I don't have figures (does anyone here have them?), but I believe this practice is quite normal in the US, while to me (in England) it is almost unthinkably barbaric. Algebraist 14:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

At my UK Uni (Durham) we have some shared rooms, but they're a tiny minority, and you only have to share for a maximum of one term unless you volunteer to share again. --Tango (talk) 14:32, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because two dissimilar people sharing one room is a theme of American comedy? (i.e. don't watch too much American television.) Adam Bishop (talk) 11:41, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So far as I can tell, the norm here in Ontario is to have two people per room. At Wilfrid Laurier University we noticed that the pairings were not random, but rather generally followed a rule of thumb: same or similar major, one person local and one person from far away, one person from a large city and one person from a rural area or small town. Not always; the numbers just wouldn't work all the way through, but often enough that it was obviously intentional. Worked well! Matt Deres (talk) 20:46, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Folklore^{[verification needed]} has it that my college, once upon a time, had four persons in one room in a boys' dorm - an altogether of eight people sharing a common bathroom. Even if it really happened, it did not last long and things went back to four people sharing a bathroom really soon. It seems that at least on-campus freshmen are supposed to have roommates, unless they specifically request to have a room by themselves. Kushal (talk) 21:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you can request a single room, why doesn't everyone do so? --Tango (talk) 21:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably because, as we are discussing, in the US (but not the UK) it is considered normal and healthy for students to share a bedroom. Algebraist 21:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On-campus student accommodation in North America tends to be very low-grade compared to normal people's housing -- typically crowded and dreary. This is considered part of the college experience, at least for the first year or two. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Single rooms are more expensive. --Nricardo (talk) 02:32, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When I was an undergraduate, the supply of single rooms was limited, and preference was given to upperclassmen. When I was a freshman, some friends of mine got singles in the middle of their sophomore (2nd) year. But I couldn't get one until my senior (4th) year, due to higher demand. (The singles also cost more, as Nricardo said.) -- Coneslayer (talk) 11:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I assume that "upperclassmen" means 3rd or 4th years, not aristos? DuncanHill (talk) 12:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. If we had any aristocrats at my large state university, I expect they lived in nicer off-campus apartments or houses, not the dorms. (Actually, I recently found out that some of our undergraduate football players live in on-campus "graduate student apartments", which are much nicer than the dorms. I suppose they are our aristocrats.) -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably, then, part of the reason is that US students have less money than UK ones. In the UK the student loan is usually easily enough to pay for university-provided single accommodation. Algebraist 12:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not really, at least in my experience. It was simply a matter of there not being enough single rooms. (Perhaps it's not clear—the single rooms were physically smaller than the normal double rooms. They accounted for maybe 10–15% of the rooms in my dorm. There was no provision for getting a regular double room to yourself.) -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But why do UK universities build lots of single rooms and US universities not? --Tango (talk) 22:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps because fewer UK institutions are campus universitites, so it is easier for students to live in privately rented accommodation, and the universities need to work harder to make their rooms desirable? A few years ago (and perhaps still), Warwick had a substantial number of shared rooms, and that's one of the few out-of-town campus unis. Warofdreams talk 16:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Islamist bias in Muslim countries

"In Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Algeria, a man with a long beard is often treated as an Islamist — and sometimes denied work. Not here in Dubai." [10]

I've been to the Levant and don't remember seeing long beards but also don't recall hearing anything about discrimination against Islamists. I always assumed many people would identify as such. Background behind that passage? Thanks.

Lotsofissues (talk) 07:14, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In at least two of those countries (Egypt and Syria), the main Islamist party is an illegal organization. Algebraist 10:27, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But is the ban on the Muslim Brotherhood directed by anything resembling popular opinion? Lotsofissues (talk) 07:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Earliest Egyptian Sea Voyage

When was the earliest Egyptian sea voyage? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.91.37.33 (talk) 11:41, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The ancient Egyptians probably sailed in the Mediterranean and the Red Sea their entire history but like other ancient people they most likely never went far out to sea preferring to stay in sight of land. It is likely that their furthest voyage was to the Land of Punt and as that article says that was first recorded in the 25th century BCE. meltBanana 23:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Space exploration

_{<Question Moved to the Science Desk> Fribbler (talk) 12:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)}[reply]

irish surnames

[[11]]. I am concerned that the 5th and 20th name are in fact the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.148.143 (talk) 16:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They are the same. The list has been mangled by repeated questionable edits. And the original source from The Observer, I can't seem to get that on their website any more. Fribbler (talk) 17:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to go back through the history to figure it all out. It appears that 19 and 20 should be Quinn and Moore - and that even predates the addition of the reference to the Observer list. I also was unsuccessful in located that original source. I am almost positive that 20 shouldn't be "Smidt". Who knew such a trivial article would attract so much vandalism? --LarryMac | Talk 18:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I corrected it from the http://www.newsuk.co.uk/ website as it apparently was a separate supplement not archived on the Observer website. meltBanana 20:27, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name of model

I'm looking for the name of the model in an advert. It's a strange ad because there is no apparent brand name or product being sold. It features a scantily clad woman holding the moon in her hand, and the word "diesel" below her. Any know it? It's in England BTW, I saw it on the Tramlink. 79.76.159.93 (talk) 19:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you certain there's no brand name? -- Coneslayer (talk) 19:47, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you looking for the name of the woman, OP? OR the brand that is being marketed? Kushal (talk) 21:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The first sentence of the OP's post is "I'm looking for the name of the model in an advert" (emphasis added). Dismas|^(talk) 03:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is apparently a brand of jeans called Diesel. Their advert here involves the moon or some similar celestial object. Did the word "diesel" look like the logo on that image? Was the model in the advert wearing jeans? (Oops, I just noticed that Coneslayer has already pointed you in the same direction.) Deor (talk) 13:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know the ad you're talking about. I'll try and get a picture on my way home so others might be able identify for you. JessicaThunderbolt 13:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry it's bad quality but there were quite a few people on the platform and I didn't want to be hanging around like a weirdo taking photos of sexy adverts ;) Here's the photo AND it's at a tram stop; how freaky is that! Could it be the same one? I don't know the models name but someone might. JessicaThunderbolt 19:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NFL and MLB

Why some teams are belong to American side and others are belong to National? What is the difference between National and American? Why Toronto is called an American while Montreal was called National? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.204.74.94 (talk) 20:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your title references the NFL, but your question doesn't seem to mention anything about (American) football. Major League Baseball (MLB) comprises two leagues, the National League and the American League. The Montreal Expos were created as a National League team simply because they applied for membership at a time when the NL was undergoing expansion. Similarly, the Toronto Blue Jays were awarded their franchise at a time when the AL was expanding. --LarryMac | Talk 20:34, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the NFL side of things, the league is divided into two conferences, named the National Football Conference and American Football Conference. Unlike MLB, these are not distinct leagues -- rules and suchlike are identical between them. The names, however, date back to the AFC's origins as the American Football League, an upstart competitor of the NFL that became significant enough that it forced a 1970 merger. At the present time, though, a team being "American" or "National" signifies nothing more than its present conference affiliation. — Lomn 20:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The only significant difference between the American and National leagues is the use of the designated hitter. Rmhermen (talk) 21:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The National League of baseball was founded in 1876; the American League became a major league in 1903. Until recently, these were two separate organizations with their own umpiring crews and rulemaking bodies. Why were the Expos assigned to the NL? Don't know; I'm sure there was a reason why Montreal and San Diego were put in the NL while Kansas City and the Seattle Pilots were put in the AL. Toronto was added to the AL because that was the only league that expanded in 1977. They added two teams, and it's hard to make schedules for an odd number of teams, so they added both teams to the AL. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another difference is the "1 o'clock" AM rule in the AL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.88.205.224 (talk) 12:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The correct date for the American league becoming a major league is 1901; 1903 was the first World Series between the two leagues. Montreal ended up in the National League because the AL was first to chose its expansion teams in 1968, picking KC and Seattle. Montreal joined the process late and the two spots left to fill were in the NL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.236.147.118 (talk) 18:29, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are two conferences in the NFL, the National Conference and the American Conference. The two conferences came about when the old American Football League was folded into the National Football League, most of the teams in the American Conference were AFL teams at the time. In order to even out the number of teams in each conference, the Cleveland Browns (now Baltimore Ravens), Baltimore Colts (now Indianapolis Colts) and Pittsburgh Steelers, who were NFL teams at the time, were moved to the American Conference. Since that time, there has been expansion. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Seattle Seahawks were expansion teams, with Tampa initially added to the National Conference and Seattle to the American Conference. Since that time, conference and team alignments have been modified. The Carolina Panthers, Jacksonville Jaguars, Houston Texans and new Cleveland Browns are teams which were added since the merger. Corvus cornix_talk 22:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Paying rent

My 24 year old son (from a previous marriage) lives with my husband and I. He pays us $200. a month in rent. Not because we need the money, more to teach him responsibility. He started working out of town this week (he pays for a hotel room 4 nights a week) and doesn't plan on comming home most weekends (opting to stay with friends in the area instead). Should he still pay us rent even tho he is basically never here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.20.248 (talk) 21:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why would he pay you rent if he's not living in your house? This seems a very strange question... --Tango (talk) 22:24, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

-There may the occassional weekend that he does come home and the majority of his things will still be here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.20.248 (talk) 22:39, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you could charge him for storage and per night, but it would seem petty to me. He's not staying with you because he doesn't want to support himself, he's just coming home to visit his parents, by the sound of it. Most parents complain their children don't visit enough, charging him to visit would be an unusual parenting style... --Tango (talk) 22:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks....I agree with you. I'm simply gathering ammo for the possible disagreement that may occur with my spouse. lol Thanks again! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.20.248 (talk) 22:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The storage is probably most likely to be an issue - your spouse might not like having your son's stuff stored in the house as though he's living there when he's not actually living there. Perhaps you could entice him to pack a lot of his stuff to be kept as storage. That might ameliorate the issue a bit more. Steewi (talk) 02:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If he had a traditional landlord/tenant relationship, he would still owe the landlord the rent every month. If you're trying to teach him responsibility, why not charge him the $200 each month whether he's there or not? What are you teaching him otherwise? That as long as he's related to the landlord, he can get free storage for his stuff whether he "lives" there or not? That's not how the outside world works, so what really are you teaching him? Dismas|^(talk) 03:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, the "outside world" includes families and most families won't ask for storage charges or put a kids belongings on the front lawn as soon as he moves out. Depending on the space you have I would get him to go through his belongings and pack them in crates you can store in the attic or somewhere. When my daughter moved out we got her to sort things into categories of rubbish, e-bay, charity shop, things to store and things to take. She made £50 on e-bay, a considerable donation to charity and had a surprising amount of rubbish tucked away in her room! We now store some crates in the attic and will probably keep them until she has a more permanent address. -- Q Chris (talk) 09:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also disagree with Dismas. One's parents can never be traditional landlords (which doesn't mean I'm against charging rent to adult children who live with their parents). Providing free storage for stuff is part of what family members sometimes do for each other. One way you can show your husband that your son has moved out, is by starting to use the room, for instance for storing some of your own stuff there. Keep the bed there of course, because I guess you still want your son to be able to stay the night when he comes. Good luck with your husband! --Lova Falk (talk) 18:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If the rent really isn't about the money then continue to charge him rent but keep the rent money stashed away. You could always return it to him when he wants to put a down payment on a house or security for his own apartment.--droptone (talk) 11:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He's already paying rent for the hotel room, if its not about the money, how does charging him more money teach him any more of a lesson? The only lesson I'd learn from that is that my parents are jerks. He's working, he's going out on his own, the last thing he needs is another financial burden. If you said it was about the money I'd say charge him, but I just don't see what lesson there is left to learn. -- Mad031683 (talk) 20:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mad03 - It would teach them about the 'real world' (oh how old i've become). In the real world If i go work in another city for 3 months my mortgage (and bills) still cost me money - EVEN if I have to pay for the hotel room whilst i'm working away. My bank don't say "oh well if you're paying for a hotel then we'll pay the mortgage for you - thanks for letting us know". If you've got a good mortgage they might say "take a payment holiday, you can always make up the difference later", but in general the answer is much like Paulie would say in Goodfellas "Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me". Now whether or not that lesson needs to be 'shown' in this instance isn't something i'd like to say but the lesson would be - that's what this 'real world' would be like if you had a house of your own. ny156uk (talk) 22:12, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is a big difference between mortgage payments and rent - at the end of paying a mortgage, you own a house. Also, you could let out your house for those 3 months and probably cover the mortgage (or at least most of it, depends on current market conditions). --Tango (talk) 22:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

pebble tec

folks have made comments about the swimming pool finish called pebble tec, but i cannot find them ... HELP???

http://www.pebbletec.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.20.248 (talk) 22:41, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear OP,

Please explain what your did to try to find this? I mean, I went to the most well known search engine on the planet (Google.com) and typed "pebble tec" into the only available space and pressed the RETURN key. http://www.pebbletec.com was the first AND second result it returned. How the heck did you not find them? Your computer skills are clearly good enough to find the Wikipedia help desk. How the heck is it possible that you didn't try google?!?!

SteveBaker (talk) 00:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible this is an advertisement? --Scray (talk) 01:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

's good to know that Wikipedia is more popular than Google or that swimming pool finish (thing). --Ouro (blah blah) 05:53, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

September 23

McCowan Subway Station

Why is there a McCowan and Scarborough centre station if they are 600 metres apart, there is an elevator at the Scarborough Centre Station, the 4 bus routes that stop at McCowan also stop at Scarborough and there are 9 more stations there and a bus terminal? Also there is connection to Go transit and a mall from Scarborough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.0.42 (talk) 00:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, crossing the road either way is kind of a pain in the ass, so maybe it was useful to have another stop after the mall (although according to McCowan (TTC) it is one of the least busiest stops). Maybe the RT was supposed to go farther, it's not unheard of to have stops that close elsewhere, like downtown; maybe they expected Scarborough to grow faster. Maybe McCowan was supposed to be the spot where the trains turn around, not a station, but they put one there anyway. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bush's SAT Scores

What did President George W. Bush score on his SAT I and II's? Acceptable (talk) 01:19, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bush is about 30 years to old to have taken those tests. Rmhermen (talk) 01:25, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Say what? Bush would have been at the age to take the tests in around 1963 or 1964; the tests certainly existed then. Of course they were called something slightly different (probably Scholastic Aptitude Test and Achievement Tests). --Trovatore (talk) 01:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The SAT I and II were created in 1994 according to the article. They are not scored the same or cover the same subject matter as the old tests. Rmhermen (talk) 01:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's an absurdly pedantic approach to take to the question. The SAT I and II are the direct successors to the Scholastic Aptitude Test and the Achievement Tests. --Trovatore (talk) 01:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, if it's not pedantic non-answers, it's not the Ref Desk! --98.217.8.46 (talk) 02:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

566 verbal and 640 math. And here is his transcript from Yale. Plasticup ^T/C 03:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it rational to hypothesize that being the son of the President certainly aided in his entry into both Yale and Harvard Business School? Acceptable (talk) 03:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As his father was not President at the time of his admission to either of those institutions, no. Plasticup ^T/C 03:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is worth mentioning that in 1964 Yale wasn't requiring (or paying any heed to) SATs. Jews were doing well on standardized tests and the entrenched antisemitic establishment was rejecting the tests as a way to keep them out. Interesting, Jews are now one of the most over-represented minorities in current Ivy League faculties. Some prejudices dissolve away so fast, yet others persist for centuries. Plasticup ^T/C 03:38, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is rational to hypothesize that his being a legacy student helped (legacy preferences are often an "affirmative action" for the rich and white). And his father being politically connected (and rich) couldn't have hurt. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting fact. At Yale (and presumably other Ivy League schools) legacy students have higher test scores than non-legacy students. Make of that what you will. Plasticup ^T/C 16:12, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His chances of admission may have been helped by his Granddad, Prescott Bush and his great uncle being on the Yale Board of Trustees [12]. Average SAT scores should be more than enough for such an applicant to get admitted. In those days the SAT had a nominal or desired average of 500 and a standard deviation of 100. You could work out approximate percentiles from that, assuming the supposed transcript is legitimate. A 566 verbal would be a Z score of .66 for approximate 75th percentile. A 640 math would be a 1.4 Z score for approximate 92nd percentile. [13] gives an actual 1964 SAT verbal average of 467 and a math sat average of 486. [14] says the "median standard deviation," whatever that is, for unspecified SAT test in 1964 was 140. These figures would give a verbal Z score of .71 for a verbal percentile of approximately 72 and a math Z score of 1.1 for an approximate math percentile of 86. For a "non-legacy" student applying to a highly selective school which considered SAT scores in 1964, these scores would have been a detriment in gaining admission. Yale may have considered other factors than scholastic merit. Edison (talk) 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Admission rates have steadily fallen through this decade, but I cannot find any data on historically admission rates. There were a lot fewer people going to college in 1964, so perhaps the Yale class was less competitive than it is today. Plasticup ^T/C 00:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Subsequent question on Bush's SAT

Given that i've heard the 'because of his daddy' thing about a milion times from people and considering the above responses here's my Q: Was Bush's SAT (or whatever) scores notably worse than his fellow students at Yale joining that year? What % of students entering Yale that year had scores around his level? What % of all students entering the university system had scores at his level? I would note - I don't understand the idea that Bush is unintelligent. His academic skills may (if the evidence mounts up) be lacking, but it seems evident that he is at least socially-intelligent. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 13:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Out of a country of 300 million people wouldn't it be possible to find a person who was both socially intelligent and actually intelligent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ Clayworth (talk • contribs)

This shows current ranges for the middle 50% of Yalies. Of course the test has changed, but the scores are (I assume) normalized. With that in mind, Dubya seems to be, as Bob Uecker used to say, "Just a bit outside". Clarityfiend (talk) 17:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The scores were recentered in 1995, so you can't directly compare scores from the two eras. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Percentile scores would be a better basis for comparison. The unverified above average but not stellar scores reported above and the mediocre high school class rank would not get an ordinary applicant beyond the slushpile of automatic rejections at a selective college today or in 1964. There appears to be a book "The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton," by Jerome Karabel. New York: Houghton Mifflin, 2005. 711 pp. ISBN 0618574581 reviewed in the Journal of Higher Education [15] which discusses G.W. Bush's admission to Yale on pages 344-345. Perhaps someone can find a copy. Edison (talk) 23:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The relevant pages can be viewed at Google Book Search [16]. P344: Bush got 566 on SAT verbal, which would put him in the bottom 10% of the Yale freshman class. He never made honor role in high school and was a "mediocre student" with no "outstanding extracurricular talents." Policy at Yale then was to also consider the father's "whole record of service both to Yale and to American society." Bush's father and grandfather had been members of Skull and Bones at Yale and his grandfather was a school trustee. Edison (talk) 23:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Taming budgerigars/parakeets

I have 7 baby budgerigars (yeah, that's what happens when you have a boy and a girl) and I was wondering what the easiest way to tame them was. They're pretty afraid of me and when I try to take them out of the cage they fly around. I don't want to traumatize them being to forceful trying to take them out, and I want them to be able to trust me enough to not fly away. Do you have any advice for me? --Sapphire Flame (talk) 12:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This site seems okay. Hope it helps! Utan Vax (talk) 13:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BA planes that fly from Heathrow to Munich

Can anyone tell me the make/type of short haul plane that flies from Heathrow to Munich for BA? If it helps, the flight numbers are usually around BA0948 to BA0956. I've tried looking at the fleet on the BA website, but to no avail. Any help much appreciated, thank you in advance. Utan Vax (talk) 12:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Go the BA website, and start booking flights from Heathrow to Munich. After picking your dates, it will list all of the flights on each day. Click on the flight number (e.g. "BA0950") and you'll get a pop-up window that includes the equipment type. It looks to me like Airbus A319/A320 are typical. -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's great! Thanks very much. Utan Vax (talk) 14:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indian book

Dear Wikipedians,

i'm still searching for a book, which is mentioned in this online article: 125 years later Indian circus struggles to survive, The Hindu (2004): Pravin Walimbe: The World of Circus. Well i've searched in all online catalogues I know (WorldCat and so on) and with search engines but I couldn't found anything. I've written to The Hindu but no answer. Maybe it's on hindi? I've found alternative spellings (Praveen Valimbe or Pravin Valimbe). Any indian librarian here ;) ? I want to know the publisher, the publishing year and maybe (if it’s given) an ISBN. Or maybe somebody can find a contact adress of the author. Thanks in advance for your help! --130.133.152.127 (talk) 13:46, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This blog mentions "two books on Circus World (by Mr Praveen P. Walimbe)" and it says he contacted Rambo Circus (whose website seems dead) to obtain a copy. So you could either email the bog or Rambo Circus itself for details. meltBanana 19:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Democracy and Republic

I don't see much difference between these democracy and republic political philosophies. Is it really possible to directly relate, election campaigns, or the way candidates are going to solve national issues (like outsourcing, energy, global warming, etc.) to these philosophies? --V4vijayakumar (talk) 13:48, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean US Democratic Party and US Republican party and their political philosophies? I don't know about the US but in the Uk major political parties produce an Election Manifesto that outlines their policies and ideas for how to deal with the major issues/running of the country. I suspect the same will be true in the US. The parties will be looking to offer policies that are popular with their core voters and also popular with swing-voters. They will also use their own political compass/ideological beliefs in how they decide what policies to promote, and the 'inner workings' of them. Traditionally parties are aligned on the political 'wings' (usually defined on the left wing or right wing). Of course parties change and there is much movement around by parties historically as the public and media influence what policies are 'important' and thus (to a degree) that dictates how the parties line-up. E.g. in the UK nowadays most major parties seek to be 'low tax' - because that is what is favoured by much of the public. Previously this was not always favoured and the Uk was more 'socialist' in its taxation policy. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

At the bottom of the two parties' articles linked above, you will find links to their "2008 National Platforms". These, I think, are analogous to the "Election Manifesto" mentioned above. The describe each party's philosophy and policy goals. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Many political commentators (such as Fareed Zakaria) argue that the party system in the US is long dead. Running as a candidate on a party platform is really more of a mechanism to get quick access to a support base. It used to be that republican and democrat referred to decentralized and centralized philosophies of government, respecitvely, but today they relate more to conservative and liberal, respectively. This is why liberal republicans (see Republican In Name Only) and conservative democrats (such as Joe Leiberman) are often regarded as wolves in sheep's clothing. --Shaggorama (talk) 06:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

how to place an ad?

<This question has been removed since it was an advertisement and I the poster should not receive any sort of PR however small from this question> Gunrun (talk) 17:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is the reference desk of Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It is not a paper of any sort, and it won't advertise your book for you. Algebraist 17:08, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oil Depletion tax allowance.

Back in the 70s, as reported in Phillip Stern's book, "The Rape of the American Taxpayer," oil drilling companies could automatically write-off 22% of the monies they made BEFORE paying taxes. Does an oil depletion tax allowance continue to exist and if so, what is the current write-off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.213.229.211 (talk) 18:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know who Phillip Stern is, but that is obviously a gross over-simplification. Besides, you can't write off a profit and you don't pay taxes on a loss, so the idea of writing something off before paying taxes on it is... well... absurd. Plasticup ^T/C 21:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I won't get into more detail but this (http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3704) seems to be a good forum discussion on the matter. In particular there is an example that could be of interest:

Bryce gives an example in his book how the oil depreciation allowance works. "An oilman drills a well that costs $100,000. He finds a reservoir containing $10,000,000 worth of oil. The well produces $1 million worth of oil per year for ten years. In the very first year, thanks to the depletion allowance, the oilman could deduct 27.5 per cent, or $275,000, of that $1 million in income from his taxable income. Thus, in just one year, he's deducted nearly three times his initial investment. But the depletion allowance continues to pay off. For each of the next nine years, he gets to continue taking the $275,000 depletion deduction. By the end of the tenth year, the oilman has deducted $2.75 million from his taxable income, even though his initial investment was only $100,000." ny156uk (talk) 22:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The oil depletion is not the only "depletion allowance" ever used in the US income tax system. I know someone who bought a farm. He immediately sold the marketable timber for, about $10,000, but did not have to pay taxes on 10000 in income from the sale because he argued that the value of the farm had decreased by the amount of the sale. The growth of the timber each year would be the "crop" he is harvesting. If you sell the minerals (or oil) under the ground, it is not all profit, because the value of it was figured into the purchase price, and the land is worth that much less afterwards. With minerals there is exploration cost and many dry wells. This notion may have been stretched to the advantage of those in the "oil bidness" in the writing of the tax codes. Edison (talk) 23:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

source code for the c program

• Search for c source code for the function will accept character as a parameter, returns 1 if an alphabet is an char, 2 if alphabet is number and 3 if it is special symbol and in main accep character till user enter EOF and use the function to count total no of alpha,digits,and special symbol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.161.19.148 (talk) 20:51, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You'd have better luck with this question on the Computers Ref Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 21:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt it. --Sean 21:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

main () { printf ("Do your own homework."); } Clarityfiend (talk) 00:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To be unbelievably generous to someone who is clearly trying to get others to do their work, go and look at the built-in functions that test character types in C. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or look at an ASCII table, this is about a 15-20 line program, if you can't figure this one out you are going to have a great deal of difficulty later, this is basicly a while loop, a scanf and an if/else if/else or two, and that's way more help than you should get. -- Mad031683 (talk) 16:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ASCII? The OP's system could use EBCDIC for all we know. That's one of the reasons that the functions DJ mentioned exist. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

True, I oversimplified based on the fact that when I was given this kind of assignment they intended us to check ASCII values, so that's my default assumption. -- Mad031683 (talk) 19:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. Automobile Statistics

How many privately-owned automobiles (i.e., no taxis) were registered in the U.S. in 1940? How many privately-owned automobiles were registered in the U.S. in 1950? How many privately-owned automobiles were registered in the U.S. in 2008? NeedToKnowInAlbuquerque (talk) 21:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The best I could find is this (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s1064.pdf) but it only does 1980-2005 so doesn't cover any of your things. Still I thought it might prove useful as a starting point for search terms in google (also census.gov. might be a good place to look for stats like this). Good luck ny156uk (talk) 22:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. Tramway/Light Rail Statistics

How many miles of commuter/light rail (subway, tramway, streetcar, elevated train, commuter rail) lines existed in the U.S. in 1930? How many miles of commuter/light rail lines existed in the U.S. in 1960? How many miles of commuter/light rail lines existed in the U.S. in 1990? NeedToKnowInAlbuquerque (talk) 21:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Eratosthenes

Why was being a librarian back in his time a title of more respect than it is now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.172.201 (talk) 22:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because historically libraries were extremely important places. Books were expensive and rare, a commodity only the richest could afford. Nowadays every homeless person in the world seems to be reading something and charity shops sell books for less than it costs to buy a chocolate bar. As a result the 'social standing' of a librarian has also changed. A library is now no longer the sole source of information for the public/people. There is the internet, tv, cheap books. Not to devaluing being a librarian - I was one myself for a few years and enjoyed it myself. ny156uk (talk) 22:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And keep in mind that literacy was a mark of education which itself was a mark of some wealth for quite a long time. That started to change in the late 19th century but it didn't become totally passé until the 20th. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's interesting. Are librarians still somewhat revered in countries with high rates of illiteracy? Plasticup ^T/C 00:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would suppose the opposite: that librarians are much more respected in countries with high literacy rates, because higher literacy means more people are actually interested in being guided through the vast libraries, that might only rarely be found in countries with lower literacy rates. IMHO. --Ouro (blah blah) 09:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I meant in the sense that they would be revered as keepers of information, as 98.217.8.46 suggested they used to be. Plasticup ^T/C 15:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

$700 billion mortgage bailout

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has requested that $700 billion be used to buy "illiquid" mortgage backed securities of uncertain worth from investment banks. Until May 2006, Paulson was head of Goldman Sachs, one of the main beneficiaries of the bailout. Paulson's net worth is about $700 million, per the bio article in Wikipedia. Is any of it in Goldman Sachs stock? Edison (talk) 22:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's his most recent financial disclosure form: [17]. "Goldman Sachs" appears not infrequently. --Sean 00:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Goldman Sachs doesn't own any of these securities. They will not be getting any of that $700bn. They benefit from this in the same way that you and I benefit: by the financial system recovering and general liquidity being restored. Plasticup ^T/C 00:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If they don't own them, why are they desperate to sell them? The Miami Herald [18] says Goldman Sachs' trading division included the mortgage bonds. The New York Times [19] said the plan calls for the government to "buy bad mortgages and other rotten assets held by troubled banks and other financial institutions" so as to "improve their balance sheets." The Globe and Mail says [20] "Fears that Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley might collapse was one of the key triggers for the U.S. government's decision to buy up bad loans." Thinkprogress.org says [21] "Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley may be among the biggest beneficiaries of the $700 billion U.S. plan to buy assets from financial companies.."MarketOracle says [22] "Banks are unhappy with the size of their bailout (of which they deserve zero), simply because Goldman and Morgan are getting a bigger bailout (of which they equally deserve zero)." [23] So does Goldman need no such help? Has their CEO rejected any share of the $700 billion proposed bailout? Edison (talk) 06:11, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said, they need the bailout in the same way that you and I need it. Goldman Sachs did not own lots of mortgage back securities. In fact, when the crisis hit they had a net short position on them. In those first couple months when everyone else was going down in flames, Goldman made a fortune. But their problem now is more subtle. Even though they played their cards well, the rest of the banking system is collapsing around them. No bank can exist in a vacuum. They need other functioning institutions around them to provide a marketplace. They need everyone else to have liquidity. So they are 100% behind this bailout not because they will get their hands on some of that $700bn, but because when that money stops the Great Depression Part II it will save you, me, and them as well. Plasticup ^T/C 15:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

September 24

Top 25 Militaries

List of countries by size of armed forces Of the top 25 countries, which ones do you suppose go overkill w/ the military thing (I mean to say which countries have a large military but live in relatively safe neighborhoods and/or have few enemies).

Thailand comes to mind. What's the worst Cambodia can do even if they don't get along?

Lotsofissues (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If we are only considering direct neighbors, what is America so worried about? Plasticup ^T/C 00:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Especially now that Alaska has Canada flanked.

Anyway, regarding Thailand, it's adjacent to Burma, which has been ruled by a military junta for the last 45 years. That can be plausibly construed as a cause for concern. Additionally, Cambodia was home to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge -- another unpleasant neighbor. — Lomn 12:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Armies aren't always for defence from outside attack. They may be used to control internal divisions, or to form a political class, for public works, or a source of public prestige. DuncanHill (talk) 13:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For example, Thailand had a military coup just two years ago. Were I Somchai Wongsawat, I would think several times before cutting army spending. Of course, another use for armies is for attacking other countries: that's the reason for the enormous US military, for example. Algebraist 13:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it was to keep the Military-industrial complex happy. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That too. Anyway, it's not for defence. Algebraist 20:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

website

is there a website where they show all the adult sites by category such as latina, asian, indian, black, white, petite and etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.130.50 (talk) 00:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Damn. Corvus cornix_talk 05:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Although, I doubt that anyone has a comprehensive list of every adult site. Dismas|^(talk) 05:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think Google may come close. -Phydaux (talk) 11:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why do people wearing a fedora always tip thier hat?

And why do they feel compelled to do it every single time? Whenever I'm out riding the bike, or walking around the block just mindin my own business, Tipmaster Tony has to show me the bald spot! And not just today. Check out those old videos from the 30's and 40's where you can clearly see these people with thier "good day madam" bullsh*t. Sinatra was the only one who had the dignity to leave it on (maybe that's why he was considered cool?)

And it's only a fedora. You see dudes with baseball caps, hardhats, Abraham Lincoln stovepipe thingamajigs (on Holloween and the Big L's birthday), and they're not tipping it. Sometimes when they're high or drunk they do, but then as only a diversion to look away from the mailbox they crashed into. The only exception is a magician's hat and they only tip it after a great trick. Or a screwup (there it's clearly a diversion). Why does this continue to happen in the modern era, and who can I blame for starting this rediculous custom?--THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk) 01:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by THE WORLD'S MOST CURIOUS MAN (talk • contribs) [reply]

Tipping one's hat is good manners - a sign of respect to the person tipped at (the tippee?). As to why fedora wearers should have better manners than folk in baseball caps, I really couldn't say. DuncanHill (talk) 01:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On the other side of the coin, I always wonder why many sportspeople conduct indoor post-match press conferences with their caps sitting tightly on their heads. This is surely poor form, no? And surely unnecessary for indoor wear in any case. Many of them don't wear any headwear while out there competing, but indoors they cover up. Crazy. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it is that whilst playing the sport they aren't concerned with the appearance of their hair, but post-match they don't have time to 'sort' their hair so rather than looking scruffy/sweaty-haired on tv they cover it up with a cap? That's always been my assumption anyways. Oh and the potential they are paid to wear it (I think it is F1 where they have to wear they are given a cap and watch they have to wear on the podium/post race stuff). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's very bad manners indeed, but I suspect that they get paid to wear them. DuncanHill (talk) 02:31, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While historically it may be considered bad manners, it is now considered just part of the uniform. Therefore, they don't generally take it off when they are in uniform. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Military officers remove their caps when giving press conferences. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It becomes second nature after a while, especially if your a historical recreationist. Steewi (talk) 03:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strips of the world

If you take a land mass (e.g. the mainland of Australia), draw lines of longitude that pass through its most easterly and most westerly points, and extend them north and south, you get a vertical strip of the world that includes all or parts of: Indonesia, East Timor, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia, Brunei, Micronesia, Guam, the Marianas, the Philippines, China, Japan, North and South Korea, Mongolia, and Russia. I exclude Antarctica because every such longitudinal strip would pass through it, and it's not a country anyway.

Doing a similar exercise with lines of latitude drawn through mainland Australia's most northerly and most southerly points gives me a horizontal strip of the world that includes all or parts of: Vanuatu, Fiji, New Zealand, Tuvalu, Kiribati, Tonga, the 2 Samoas, Cook Islands, French Polynesia, Pitcairn Island, Easter Island, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Tristan da Cunha, Angola, DR Congo, Zambia, Malawi, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, Lesotho, South Africa, Madagascar, and Mauritius. Papua New Guinea might just scrape in, but I haven't done the research to confirm this.

I may have omitted some small countries, but you get the idea. Do such "strips of the world" have a name? And which land masses would have the least number and the greatest number of other countries or parts thereof in their longitudinal and latitudinal "strips"? Which would have the greatest and least number relative to their own size? Ignore Antarctica, because it would include every country in its N-S strip and probably zero countries in its E-W strip. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if such strips have a name, but I can pretty much guarantee that Russia dominates the vertical strips. It gets eastern Europe, all of Asia, all of Australasia, and all of the Pacific Islands. Plasticup ^T/C 03:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You could find some of this information by comparing list of countries by northernmost point and list of countries by southernmost point with extreme points of Australia (or whichever landmass you are considering). This suggests that the Australian mainland extends from 10°41'S to 39°08'S, giving some overlap with countries including Papua New Guinea, Tanzania, Kiribati, Indonesia and Tuvalu. Warofdreams talk 11:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I never heard of a name for such strips, but they could lead to some interesting experiments. For example, a north-south strip of Chile would be very narrow and not intersect many other countries, but the east-west strip would include far more. (Maybe I should count them!) — Michael J 18:11, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By coincidence, User:The Anome has just published a list of the minimum and maximum latitudes and longitudes of all countries here. Someone with time on their hands could take this & work out all manner of JackofOz Strip (as I believe they should be coined) intersections. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All excellent lists, which would be a good starting point for anyone who wanted to work all this out. I was really only thinking of contiguous land masses, not necessarily political territories, because one does not normally think of, for example, the UK extending as far south as South Georgia, and there's a lot of non-UK in between. I surely can't be the first person to have ever wondered about this exercise. Or is my strange little brain really that strange? (Don't answer that). I might have to see if The Anome is aware of any work that's already been done. What I have discovered from comparing lists is that the 2 countries closest to the Equator that are wholly in the northern and southern hemispheres are both in South America - Venezuela and Peru respectively. I never knew that. I respectfully decline the eponymisation suggested above because, well, it sounds ... crap. But thanks anyway. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

inbound call centres

What is the average amount of calls an inbound call centre operator takes in a day (8 hours)? Are these statistics recorded anywhere? I would prefer Australian stats if possible.

Thanks a lot. 203.202.144.223 (talk) 03:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What type of business is the call center for? I've worked for a gift company in their call center and the number of calls varied drastically between December (Christmas time) and July (no large gift related holidays). On the other hand, a credit card company or something like that probably has a more steady stream year round. Dismas|^(talk) 04:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking more like a customer enquiry line fora government organisation or say for a internet service provider. 203.202.144.223 (talk) 04:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Drinkability of 40 yr old gin, whiskey and SoCo?

Hi all,

I was cleaning out my grandmother's house and found three bottles: a Seagram's Crown Royal Whiskey, a Tanqueray Gin and a bottle of Southern Comfort. There are no dates on the labels, but I'm guessing they're from around the 60s or 70s. Anyone know if they'll still be good to drink? Or even better now? I think they've been fairly temperature-controlled (and the Seagrams is even still in it's little purple pouch with it's certificate).

Thanks! — Sam 11:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Have they been opened? That can change things. If they have not been opened then they should be just fine. If they have been, it's a toss up. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You should submit them to an expert for extensive testing. I can be contacted by email or on my talk page :) DuncanHill (talk) 13:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't guarantee it, but I would be surprised if there was anything harmful about them (assuming they're still sealed), but they may not taste too good. I don't think they'll be any better for being older - the age of a whiskey is how long it was in the barrel, once it's in a bottle it stops changing, I believe - gin is probably similar. In addition to temperature, the other thing that could harm them is light - if they were in a dark cellar, they are likely to be better than if they were in daylight. --Tango (talk) 14:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last year a friend of mine found a 22 year old bottle of André. That stuff retails at about $4. Although it tasted awful it didn't make anyone sick. Now something like whiskey which is meant to survive for years is probably okay. I would be very surprised if it wasn't. Plasticup ^T/C 15:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thanks for all the advice. The bottles are unopened (I would have mentioned if they were) and as far as I know have been in the dark. Sounds like I'll have to crack one open now... sigh... — Sam 16:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Although there are no dates on the bottles, are there any codes or other identifying marks? You might be able to contact the distillers to determine exactly when they were bottled. — Michael J 18:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Renewing car registration in CT

The city of Stamford is saying that I owe a car tax on a vehicle I haven't owned in a year in a half. I just off the phone with the tax collector and she pretty much said so what, you still have to pay the taxes in order to renew the registration on your current vehicle which is due this month. After I pay the taxes, what do I have to do? --Anilmanohar (talk) 14:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Try calling the DMV at 800-842-8222. --LarryMac | Talk 14:27, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

we cannot give legal advice —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's the problem? As long as you don't move out of state, you can claim the equivalent credit on your CT state taxes. (I did, when I lived there.) Clarityfiend (talk) 19:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Supernatural

I am trying to find pictures of people performing supernatural acts such as levitaion, spoon bending, telekenisis, ect ect ect or anything in this vein. preferably on wiki thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A Google video search for David Blane might have something for you. If you are looking for still images, try the wikipedia commons category commons:Category:Magic. Plasticup ^T/C 15:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

computer

where can i get an answer to this question (history of computer in the past ,present and future?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tesybless (talk • contribs) 16:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You'd be well advised to start by writing a question. Then, from wikipedia, you could search for "history of computers" or similar, which might give you pointers to such articles as:

As for the future, maybe:

and I'm sure many other articles which will be linked to the seven or so that I've listed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to the links Tagishsimon posted, you may also be interested in Quantum computer. Laenir (talk) 18:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's the time in Antarctica right now?

and in the North Pole? --190.49.126.98 (talk) 19:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stations in Antarctica generally keep the time of their supply bases; see South_Pole#Time, for instance, or Time zone#Additional information. No time zone has been set for the north pole - see North_Pole#Time--Tagishsimon (talk) 19:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Antarctica does not have a time zone, although Graham Land is technically at Universal Coordinated Time minus three hours. Plasticup ^T/C 19:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

nursery rhymes

what did Tom, the Piper's son play in the musical rhyme —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 19:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pipes, like his pa. "Tom with his pipe did play with such skill" [24] --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

nursery rhymes 2

what was the only song that Tom, the Piper's son could play? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 20:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Over the hills and far away, noted in the fourth line of the rhyme - Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

nursery rhymes 3

accourding to the nursery rhyme, who put pussy in the well?

Little Tommy Green, as is evident from a cursory reading of the rhyme. Please think about whether you could answer any of these by doing a modicum of research, such as reading the rhymes, first. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Racoons

what is the collective term for a group of racoons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 20:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gaze, according to [25]. Google is not broken tonight. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sporting ground

what sporting ground is The Nursery End, the Pavillion End and St john's Road linked with? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.11.58 (talk) 20:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lord's Cricket Ground. Tell me you're doing a pub quiz... -Tagishsimon (talk) 20:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Women leaving the Roman Catholic Church.

Dear Reference Desk.

Can you send me infornation on: Women leaving the Roman Catholic Church.

I understand that this situation is getting worst year after year, but this year, it is at its highest.

Thank you. Joedemarco00@AOL.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.234.97 (talk) 20:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

what is a concise recapitulation of the patients course in the hospital? a. discharge summary b. medical history c. social services record d. progress reports