Talk:Zimbabwean dollar

Coins

Will the 1¢ and the 5¢ coins going to go back into circulation and are they introducing new $5 coins to circulate with the old $5 or not? (I'm getting confused with all the articles about the new dollar). Also you can see the old coins at [1]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by $1000000000ten0one1 (talk • contribs) 03:46, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I think they are still legal tender, but 5 Zim cents is about 0.1 US cents and soon to be much less, so I'm not sure it really matters. --Tango (talk) 23:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The RBZ's website says that 10 cent, 20 cent, 50 cent, $1, $2, and $5 coins of the first dollar are now legal tender, at face value (effectively a 10 trillion-fold increase in value!), and says that $10 and $25 coins will also be introduced. I wonder whether they'll actually make those coins, though, given how quickly they'll be worthless. So, 1 cent and 5 cent are not, apparently, even theoretically legal tender. Nik42 (talk) 22:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually I have some hopes Zimbabwe finally found to a kind of stability of the currency. Look at the OMIR. When did you see the last time that the highest OMIR goes to more than two weeks back?(it was July 22nd).--Alexmagnus2 (talk) 22:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Because the OMIR is determined by stock prices it varies quite wildly. The July 22nd peak was probably just the stock market making a mistake, it happens. I'd love it if the Zim economy stabilised, but it's not going to happen spontaneously. --Tango (talk) 18:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Still bearer cheques?

Are the new banknotes still bearer cheques,or are they actual real banknotes with no expiry dates, as last issued in 2003?Tarcus (talk) 22:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I think they're real banknotes. --Tango (talk) 23:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes the new banknotes are real "banknotes". $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 01:54, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Zimbabwe exchange rate

Why has the RBZ not issued a rate since 5th Aug? $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 06:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess the try the fixed rate again. Like they did at the beginning pf the second dollar.--Alexmagnus2 (talk) 09:37, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Inflation Quotes

The last CSO figure was 9,030,000 %. However siyabonga is using a 100,000,000% rate. Does anyone know how siyabonga gets its rates? $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 21:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

BBC [ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7569894.stm ] stated that the official figure went to 11.25 million % Ruby Cored (talk) 13:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

XE.com

Why are we reporting the XE.com as an offical rate source? Aeiuo (talk) 06:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't know. It can't really be official, as the only source for this rate is the RBZ

I have no idea. What actually is XE.com's rate? I think xe just makes its own offcial rates (that aren't really offical). $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 04:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Should we consider deleting XE.com's rates? Aeiuo (talk) 04:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I've removed them. --Tango (talk) 04:06, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Zimbabwean currency

I have found scans of the New (third) dollar at [2]. Should we replace the $250 million banknote in the table. $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 08:00, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the $250,000,000 should be replaced by a third dollar banknote. I think the $100 banknote should replace the $250,000,000 banknote because it is the highest valued note there is a scan of and the other banknotes are practically worthless. However the $1 banknote is the base unit of the ZWD so maybe it and/or the $1 coin shold replace it. What banknote and/or coin should replace the $250,000,000 banknote? Aeiuo (talk) 09:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree we should use the $100 banknote. $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 11:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Two different rates on RBZ site

Has anybody noticed, the RBZ home page quotes a different rate to the one linked to on the foreign currency page? The former currently quotes:

FOREIGN CURRENCY RATES 01/09/2008 Interbank Exchange Rate ZWD 37.15 per US$1

While the later links to a page [Daily Interbank Exchange Rates Z$ per US$ Monday 01 September 2008] which quotes:

34.83 Z$ per US$

Is this perhaps an explanation for XE's rates being different to RBZ? BTW, as both unofficial sources now quote >> ZWD 100 per USD, should not the ZWD return to the Least valued currency unit page TiffaF (talk) 13:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The cutoff for that page is 1000, not 100, give it a few more weeks! --Tango (talk) 21:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, looking at the numbers I see it has gone over 1000 in the past couple of days, I guess that was just a typo on your part. I suggest waiting a few days to make sure it's stable above that rate, as it does sometimes drop down soon after a massive increase, but we will probably need to add it again soon. --Tango (talk) 00:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Well they used the 28th rate twice (28 & 29th and both were even dated 28th) so the 34.83 rate might actually be the rate for the 29th and the 37.15 rate the rate for the 1st. $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 23:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Banknote value

Acording to the Least valued currency unit page the current highest valued banknote ($500) is only worth 2¢ (on the blackmarket). Does that make it the least valued, highest banknote? $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 05:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

1,000 dollar note Setp 19 2008

Why was my edit removed? The new highest value note in Zim is the 1000 dollar note. "Due to spiraling inflation on September 18 the federal bank of Zimbabwe issued a 1000 dollar note, and raised the maximum daily withdrawal rate to 1000 dollars as well. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.251.87.214 (talk) 19:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it was just a mistake - the edits after yours were vandalism and someone just revert too far. Feel free to put your edit back, it looks like useful information to have in the article (and thank you for referencing it!). --Tango (talk) 21:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Decimal Places

The figures quoted on SWRadioAfrica, Siyabonga-Tatenda and OMIR (Zim Equities) are really intended as rates against GBP Sterling, which are then converted into Z$-USD rates by dividing by the GBP-USD rate. Since the Z$-GBP rates are currently quoted to the nearest approx 1,000 I am not sure why it is necessary to quote the Z$-USD rate on wikipedia to the nearest 0.01 This page is about the Z$, not about the latest fluctuation in the GBP-USD exchange rate. Could we ensure the quotation of the Z$-USD rate is of a comparable level of accuracy as the originally source Z$-GBP rate ? The GBP-USD exchange rate is never quoted on an interbank basis to more accuracy than about 0.0025 % I would suggest that with USD-Z$ currently around 70,000 we quote the USD-Z$ rate to the nearest 1 rather than 0.01 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.186.86 (talk) 02:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

In case of the OMIR, the rate gets calculated with highest precision for both GBP and USD. --Alexmagnus2 (talk) 11:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Another milestone...

With the massive devaluation over the last few days, the ZIM$ has now surpassed the Brazilian hyperinflation of the 80s/90s and has moved into 3rd place on the list of all-time record hyperinflation (surpassed only by the Yugoslavian and post-WW II Hungarian hyperinflationary periods). One US$ is now worth more than 2.7 Quintillion 1st Zimbabwe $. If inflation continues at current levels, the all-time Hungarian record will be broken sometime next April.

At OMIR rates, the highest value Z$ banknote is now worth around 1/3 of a US cent. Does anone know if additional new banknotes (e.g. 100,000 / 1,000,000) are currently planned ? Passportguy (talk) 15:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You can't measure hyperinflation by just looking at exchange rates - I believe the Z$ is plummeting not only due to inflation but due to a massive trade deficit as well. --Tango (talk) 17:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You are correct that official inflation numbers are better, but as there are none (or only falsified ones), OMIR is the only reliable indicatior of inflation that gets published regularly. You can't get an exact number from it, but whether YOY inflation is at 765 billion % or "only" at 500 billion is almost a mute point.... 91.37.161.242 (talk) 20:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The difference between the devaluation of the currency and inflation could well be quite a significant factor - orders of magnitude, even. Measuring inflation is very difficult because most of the economy is now black market - the official inflation is calculated based on the prices the shops would be selling things at if they had anything to sell, which results in a pretty meaningless number. As the economy becomes more and more dollarised, however, the devaluation of the currency will get closer to inflation, since they would then be measuring the same thing (since everyone would, in effect, be priced in hard currency). --Tango (talk) 21:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Another interesting milestone is the massive gap between the official rate and the parallel rate -- the parallel rate is now over 1000 times what the official rate is! 220.104.132.239 (talk) 21:48, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

It's been worse. Before the official rate was "floated" in May, the parallel rate was over 6000 times the official rate. It won't take long to get to that level, though - the official rate is increasing linearly while the parallel rate increases exponentially (or even faster at times). --Tango (talk) 23:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

If the ZIM$'s parrell rate is now 1000 times higher than the mid market is the ZIM$'s offical rate really floating? $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 01:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

No, hence the quotes. --Tango (talk) 01:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Talking about (pseudo)-milestones: today the year-on-year increase of the OMIR exceeded one trillion percent...--Alexmagnus2 (talk) 15:26, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

It's two trillion now... and it's been only a week! Ruby Cored (talk) 13:09, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

And just under 3 trillion tonight ! Passportguy (talk) 17:51, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Raise you another trillion to 4 trillion!!! (3.979 trillion % as of today) Ruby Cored (talk) 16:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll bet 10 minutes work on a backlog of the winner's choice that it's over 10 trillion by the end of the week. Any takers? --Tango (talk) 16:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Good job no-one took me up on that bet, I was a (working) day off... --Tango (talk) 12:56, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

The Zimbabwe Dollar's devaluation is reaching record speeds. Last month's the inflation of the price of the US Dollar (OMIR) was roughly 422 % p.m. Annualized, that translates to an unbelievable ~ 3.19 x 10^31 or 31,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 percent.

I.e. : If neither the rate of inflation changes nor a revaluation takes place (which is almost certainly going to happen) the ZIM$ will trade at ~ 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 45 undecillion per US$ on October 1, 2009. Measured in Z-1 Dollars the rate will have gone from roughly 1:10 in the late 80s to 450 sexdecillion (4.5 * 10^53). Passportguy (talk) 12:47, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

You mean 422-fold, not 422 percent p.m. (that is 42100%)... still the other numbers are correct, excet that it will be 3.19*10^33% (...*10^31-fold)...--Alexmagnus2 (talk) 13:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. I must have lost those last 2 zeros somewhere amongst the 30+ others... Passportguy (talk) 14:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

New $10,000 and $20,000 banknotes

Today according to [3], Zimbabwe introduced new $10,000 and $20,000 banknotes and raised the withdrawl limit for induvisuals to $20,000, however Z$20,000 (only) = 3.6¢US. I wonder if the paper used to make the banknotes is acually worth more than the value of the banknote. $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 03:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know where they're getting their banknotes these days? They must have run out of the ones they had stockpiled from the German company by now. --Tango (talk) 14:51, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The notes are being printed on ordinary paper with no security features [4] 193.1.209.200 (talk) 12:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

A question on coins : Were they ever actually issued ? Given the expense of production and the rate of inflation I somehow doubt they ever went to the trouble. Assuming a 1 cent coin were to weigh around 2 grams, you'd now need 200,000 kilograms or 200 metric tons of metal to buy something the value of 1 US$ ! Passportguy (talk) 12:57, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

They re-monetised all the old coins, but I doubt they issued any new ones (they were foolish if they did, but that doesn't say much). I expect the coins were used a little in the first couple of weeks, but after that inflation made them worthless again. --Tango (talk) 15:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

The coins were used quite often in the first two weeks.(I have even read articles that at the redemonation the most common unit of currency was 50¢ coins.) When the exchange rate fell to Z$34 = 1US$ you only needed 6 kg (compaired with 200,000 kg, now in 1¢ coins) for 1 US$. $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 23:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

the $10,000 still have the security thread and both have the watermark; but you're right; they're printed on much lower quality paper than other denominations of the series. Ruby Cored (talk) 12:25, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Official rate frozen?

Where is the source for the newly-appeared statement that the official rate git frozen at 57 (???) Z$ per US$ on September 23? The RBZ site didn't change its rates since September 19 - and there the rate was 96.43...--Alexmagnus2 (talk) 10:55, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I saw that rate on xe.com, however the offical rates are from RBZ. It must not have been changed since 23 Sept. $1000000000ten0one1 (talk) 12:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Unless there is an official announcement that it has been frozen, Wikipedia shouldn't report that it has been frozen. 96.43 is still the rate shown on the RBZ's home page, so I'm going to remove the other rate from the article. Piccadilly (talk) 12:44, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Cato Institute publishes inflation index for Zimbabwe

The Cato Institute has published a website which lists the current annual inflation rate for Zimbabwe :

"The last official inflation data were released for June and are hopelessly outdated. The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe has been even less forthcoming with money supply data: the most recent money supply figures are ancient history—January 2008. Absent current official money supply and inflation data, it is difficult to quantify the depth and breadth of the still-growing crisis in Zimbabwe. To overcome this problem, Cato Senior Fellow Steve Hanke has developed the Hanke Hyperinflation Index for Zimbabwe (HHIZ). This new metric is derived from market-based price data and is presented in the accompanying table for the January 2007 to present period. As of 26 September 2008, Zimbabwe’s annual inflation rate was 531 billion percent." (see http://www.cato.org/zimbabwe)

The 531 billion figure is based on inflation from mid-September 07 to mid-September 08 and is likely to rise significantly over the coming months. As the official data by the RBZ is outdated and likely deliberatly understating figures, I suggest we list the Cato number on the main page box in addition to the official figure. Passportguy (talk) 20:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you mean 08, Sept 09 hasn't happened yet ;). I think we should use this measure alongside the official one. It would be good if we can find independent reliable sources referring to this index to prove notability. --Tango (talk) 21:13, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Yup, I've corrected the typo in my above comment Passportguy (talk) 21:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

As for reliablity, see Cato Institute and Steve Hanke (author of the index). As for other sources mentioning this index you can find the usual newspaper menntions, e.g. [5], but you won't find many publications mentioning it as it is quite new and only of interest to a very limited amount of people. Passportguy (talk) 21:25, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

It looks like that newspaper article was written by the creator of the index, so that one won't do it! Independent newspaper articles would be fine. --Tango (talk) 21:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

There are now a variety of sources quoting the figure, e.g. The Zimbawean, the Harare Tribune and others. So I'll put the figure on the main page for now. Passportguy (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Btw : I just checked the Cato site, and the inflation figure has now been revised upward - from 531 billion to 2 trillion % Passportguy (talk) 14:45, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

No more Siyabonga?

According to their website; the RBZ has "temporarily" stopped all RTGS transactions so there would be no updates from them for a while... Ruby Cored (talk) 12:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess we'll have to start scouring the newspaper articles looking for cash rates again. Either that, or stick with just the OMIR - other than being more volatile, it seemed to roughly agree with the parallel rate. --Tango (talk) 12:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Cash rates

Should we be reporting the cash rates somewhere? According to [6] the exchange rate for cash is about Z$1000 per US$. Interestingly, compared with the electronic rate of Z$650,000 per US$ given in that article (seems a few days out of date), that means a Z$1 note is actually worth Z$650 - supply and demand applied to notes! --Tango (talk) 13:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about these newspaper article rates. They've always been significantly lower than quoted bank rates, even before the current cash crisis. And consider this. If they actually were such huge diffeneces in rates, why wouldn't people buy dollars for Z$ at a rate of 1000, then travel to South Africa, wire the money back in via Siyabonga and then get payed 1,000,000 for the same amount of dollars ? You've made 100,000 % in just a few days ! I.e.l If you started off with US$1000 you now have US$1,000,000 ! I realize it wouldn't work right now, as the banking system is defunct, but it would have until a few days ago, and I somehow do see millions of rich Zimbabweans around. So I'd strongly suspect these rates, most of them quoted by journalists outside of Zimababwe, are just very out of date, and/or are heavily reliant on official government sources, which tend to grossly understate inflation and exchange rates. Passportguy (talk) 15:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Read the article I linked to, it talks about people doing just that. The bit you're missing is the withdrawal limits. You need to be able to withdraw the cash in order to exchange it at the cash rates and unless you have the appropriate government contacts you can only withdraw $20,000 a day (which you need to use to buy food, so can't use it for currency dealing!). If you do have those contacts, though, then you can make massive returns and according to the article people do. There has been a massive cash shortage in Zim for months if not longer - that's why they have withdrawal limits. --Tango (talk) 15:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

New 50,000 Dollar bill coming up

According to AFP a new $50,000 bill will be issued today. Passportguy (talk) 13:35, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I reas an article (International Herald Tribune maybe) saying they were on the streets as of Monday morning, some befor banks opened due to corruption. Tarcus (talk) 20:21, 13 October 2008 (UTC)