Talk:Integrity

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Linguistic Note

From a purely linguistic view, "integrity" is an odd word. To define the word by part of speech, "integrity" is a noun; yet it is always used as a descriptor of nouns, both abstract and concrete. In other words, intergrity is only used in English in the "***** has integrity" format. But while the word "integrity" is always used to describe nouns, there is no adjective form of the word (ie., no integrious, integritious). This is especially odd if the etymology of the "integrity" is correct and it comes from the Latin adjective, "integer." I am certain there are more words like this. My goal is to collect all such oddities =)

Forgive my ignorance of customary formatting. Regarding the above linguistic note: You may want to look into ontology. The nouns you refer to are considered properties and only exist (depending on the theory) insofar as they are predicated of another existent. See also predication, universals, particulars. This is off the top of my head, but it might help you approach your goal.

As far as ontology/epistemology is concerned, what you said about ontology is valid only for nominalist and eventually for conceptualist theories. Realist theories say that properties really exist. E.g., the property of having beauty (being beautiful) is due to participating to the Idea of Beauty. Beauty exists in itself. Even the language tells it "She has beauty", i.e. she owns a piece of the Idea of Beauty. Altough, from a realist standpoint, more correctly it would be said that she participates in Beauty, or that Beauty has her.

Further, "quality" is also a noun. There is no "qualitous" or so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tgeorgescu (talk • contribs) 15:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Observation in respect to integrity tests

As said, there is an easy way to cheat at integrity tests. But not all answers have to be a 100% agreement with the mentioned attributes, because no person in that area is so dumb in order for him/her to believe in a 100% perfect integrity score. Tgeorgescu 10:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

irrelevant and bad english

"Integrity is when your trustworthy."

Integrity is when you are trustworthy. Also, this is completely irrelevant in the subheading mathematics —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.76.142.96 (talk) 01:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh... Citation needed. Muchly.

I think this article needs a little beefing out, and not in the form it has been getting recently. There are so many statements that are merely opinion, but stated as fact. I have no problem with this, as long as they are used as quotes of someone who thought that way. If you (67.183.136.6 and many others) want to create a page detailing why you think the way you do about integrity that is well written and presents its arguments persuasively on your own site and cite your opinion here, go ahead. Otherwise, keep the article clean.

Also, shouldn't there be separate articles for the different kinds of integrity? I was actually looking online for a good explanation of integrity as it applies to material science, and nothing came up at all. I can't find my copy of Engineering Alloys, which had an excellent definition if I remember correctly. If I find the book I shall make a page posthaste. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sortitus (talk • contribs) 04:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. There are some parts to this page that appear to be accurate but there are a couple of sections that could use major improvement. "Evaluating/measuring integrity" seems to be inferring much more than is reasonable from the use of language. I believe that integrity is generally viewed as being a continuous variable not "all-or-nothing." The "all-or-nothing" example merely demonstrates people using an extreme form when it is not truly intended that way. Similarly when people say "last scraps" of integrity, they are not measuring integrity in a unit called "scraps" nor are any properties of "scraps" implied by that usage. It merely means "a relatively small amount". The section "(Tests of) professional integrity" does not explain how these tests work or provide any citations. The first sentence in that section is ok and I think can be taken at face value. The rest as far as I can tell is wild conjecture so should be removed. 216.36.186.2 (talk) 20:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. This whole article reeks of exactly that which I suspected... that "integrity" is a weakly defined concept that noone really knows exactly what it is.

We need citations for this and lots of 'em. Otherwise thise whole article becomes a subject for deletion. --J-Star (talk) 14:03, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Disappearance of material

On 2008-09-26 at 0556 hours an unregistered Wikipedian using a previously non-editing IP address removed almost 50 percent of this article, obliterating multiple tags and eliminating various views of integrity without making any comment. Failing an explanation on the Talk-page, I propose to restore the deleted material. -- Pedant17 (talk) 04:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored the article from massive vandalism committed by a group of cultists called "Psycans", who spread their ideology as if it were a mainstream scientific fact. E.g., there are no (nummerical) measures for ethical values -- the edit made by Psycans is a complete rant. I suggest that this page become protected by moderators, and that the vandals (often known only by their IP's) are banned from Wikipedia. Tgeorgescu (talk) 13:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it plain vandalism? First, deleting relevant information without due reason (we may guess that the adepts of Psycanics feel extremely uncomfortable with mainstream viewpoints, thus seek to delete mainstream information from Wikipedia...). Second, as written by User:Hgilbert on October 29, 2007, "Wikipedia does have clear guidelines about an editor not putting in his/her own formulations, even if based upon a carefully built case and backed up with evidence; instead, we as editors should report on the conclusions drawn by authorities in the field. It's well worth reading the guidelines as to where the line is to be drawn between reporting on conclusions and drawing one's own. ... By the way, only peer-reviewed, print-published, non-polemical sources should be used; see Verifiability standards to clarify this (and for exceptions)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tgeorgescu (talk • contribs) 17:36, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Undoing my recovery of "Integrity"

I want to ask you what is the depth and the breadth of a value system? Are they measured in centimeters? Why value systems should be congruent "with a wider range of observations"? What does that mean? Does it mean that the subculture having those values has to generate realistic behavior (as opposed to idealistic behavior)? Does it mean that they have to behave as they preach? Why do people are required to account for the discrepancy between parts of a value system? Does it matter at all how they construct such account? Or they are simply hypocrite, regardless of how they account for this discrepance?

I remind you that "This article is about the ethical concept. For other uses, see Integrity (disambiguation)." So, I suggest to move the contributions about mathematical integrity elsewhere, or start an article Integrity (mathematics).

Further I do not understand what those titles Testing via... mean. Do they mean that one tests (measures) integrity? A scientific theory is falsified or not falsified, it is falsifiable or not falsifiable. So what is that discussion about testing (measuring) integrity? How does one measure how much scientific integrity some theory has? The scientific integrity means "The integrity of science is based on a set of testing principles known as the scientific method. To the extent that a proof follows the requirements of the method, it is considered scientific. The scientific method includes measures to ensure unbiased testing and the requirement that the hypothesis have falsifiability." I.e. integrity is specific to the scientific community when it operates 100% as it should (as in Merton's norms). It is not a characteristic of scientific theories.

A reader cannot understand what psychological integrity tests are about, as the article looks at this time. It writes: "Testing via Psychological Tests The pretension of such tests to detect fake answers plays a crucial role in this respect, because the naive really believe such outright lies and behave accordingly, reporting their past deviance because they fear that otherwise their answers will reveal it. The more Pollyannaish the answers, the higher the integrity score.[1]" This is too elliptic to be understandable. It does not say what these tests measure and what their use is.

Further, I know of no (serious) consistent values system. The more serious and respectable a value system is, the more contradictions it seems to contain. This is because the accuse of hypocrisy is itself hyppocrite, since nobody lives at the top (height) of his/her moral and political ideals, so it is hypocritical to blame others for not living 100% by their own book. Tgeorgescu (talk) 19:26, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]