Talk:Shot heard round the world

World War One

Interesting little article. But, from my UK perspective i somehow associate 'a shot heard around the world' as the murder of archduke whatever (ferdinand?) of Austria, which started world war one. Sandpiper

After a little googling I found out that others share this perspective. The Times of Zambia uses it here: http://www.times.co.zm/news/viewnews.cgi?category=8&id=1110179227, but...Emerson came up with the diaria almost 80 years before the archduke was assassinated, and (for what it's worth) google shows the phrase receives about 500-1000 times fewer hits refering to Ferdinand than to Lexington and Concord. The phrase has also been used to describe other assassinations. Still...I think if someone can come up with a good source that compares the usage of the phrase for the two war-related events, this alternate meaning should be in the article. The fact that the later meaning is more prevalent in the UK is really interesting! Flying Jazz 03:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was still thinking about this today and came to the conclusion that maybe in some dimly remembered lesson about the american war we might have been read the poem. However, i stick to my immediate reaction, when I saw the link in the american revolution article, WW1 was what came to mind. No doubt people have taken a very memorable image and used it for all sorts of things. An Americanocentric view would obviously be much more likely to give it its original meaning. But might be possible to collect other events it has been used for. It could have been used as a book title. Don't recall exactly how I heard it used. Maybe it'll keep bugging me and I shall think of something else. Sandpiper 21:31, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It would seem you're not the only one who associates it with the Great War. That was the phrase I remember being taught as part of High School history in Australia. There are also WWI websites that refer to the same context [[1]] ~~Brother William 28th April 2006 05:30 (UTC)

Proposed rewrite

After discussing the phrase with friends in the UK and Australia it seems that, despite the Emerson origin of the poem, outside of the US the phrase "the shot heard round the world" is more associated with World War 1 rather than the Revolutionary War (many were not even aware of the association with RW in the first place). I'm proposing to rewrite the article with a view to showing more on the international usage as well as the US one. Alternatively I could re-activate the disambiguation page and write a seperate article in a similar vein to the Assasination in Sarajevo page. ~~Brother William 3rd May 2006 00:12 (UTC)

I like the idea of showing more about the usage worldwide, but I think doing this in a disambiguation page would be a mistake. This is an opportunity for Wikipedia to teach different things to different readers in one article. I agree that the current article has big problems. It lumps both sports and Ferdinand's assasination into an "Other Uses" section, and I don't think that is appropriate. My suggestions: I hope that you divide up the article into sections in a more appropriate way in your rewrite, I hope you include some other notable assasinations besides Ferdinand's where the phrase has been used, and hopefully add more references. I hope you try to get some input about usage of the phrase from sources that are neither American nor from Commonwealth countries. This would truly represent an international perspective. It is possible that cultures with historically strong British ties would be more likely to embrace a non-Emerson usage and teach that usage to their children. Of course, it should be possible for the article itself to not be Americanocentric and still be about a phrase that originated in an Americanocentric hymn. Flying Jazz 08:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

References

Original research is strictly frowned upon and against Wikipedia policy. Also, this site needs some help with sources and citation. (Looks like it hasn't been touched in awhile though). Colonel Marksman 00:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are right that original research is frowned upon. What part of the present article constitutes original research? Flying Jazz 08:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed extreme minority sports usage

I removed the basketball, soccer, and cyberathlete references. None of these have invaded and persisted in the culture of the particular sport like the baseball and golf usage. Flying Jazz 05:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I returned the soccer reference - it is a VERY common usage in the soccer world when referring to Caligiuri's goal. I agree on the other two, especially the "cyberathlete" reference, which is far too niche. - RPIRED 20:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would debate the soccer reference being given equal prominence - I'm sure it is very commonly used indeed among U.S soccer fans but most fans outside the CONCACAF region - i.e at least 90% of soccer fans worldwide - won't have ever seen the goal, and in many cases wouldn't have heard about it either - CONCACAF games get next to no press NOW in Europe, despite the region's strength having vastly improved in the last 17 years. Baseball and Basketball are so US-Centric at the top levels that fans of the sport everywhere are aware of what happens there - the reverse is not usually true for soccer, and certainly wasn't in 1989

Modern usage

I've added the reference to the most notable use of the phrase with reference to Dick Cheney. If you google "Shot heard 'round the world" +cheney you get over 14,000 hits.--Brother William 13:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Shot at Concord not Lexington

It seems that it is quite popular to say the shot heard round the world was at Lexington, but this is simply not true. The shot heard round the world was in Concord at the North Bridge. The shot it's referencing was the first shot fired by a colonial militiaman that killed a British Soldier. The statue that the poem is on is on one side of the bridge, while the grave of that British Soldier is on the other side of the bridge. The poem mentions the bridge, the farmer and is called the Concord Hymm. I think the article should be clearer in saying which shot is the actual shot heard round the world, and then mention the phrase being attributed to the Lexington shot as being a common misconception. Comment was added by Noldrin (talk • 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The Concord Hymn is not about one farmer killing one British Soldier with one shot. The plural "the embattled farmers" fired "the shot." The issue of Emerson's usage vs popular usage seems to be addressed by the current version of the article. I think that labelling the popular usage (the first Lexington shot) a "misconception" would be too much of an academic POV because I think that's what the phrase means to very many people. It would be a misconception if people thought that this was what Emerson meant. Please take a closer look at the relevant parts of the article. Flying Jazz 14:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Figurative language

This article is just insulting to the reader. The shot wasn't really heard around the world? Shocking! Some guy 01:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest that this article is just fine. While it may be true that the "shot" wasn't "heard" in places not proximal to the battle, the use of figurative language, especially within poetry, it not only normal and acceptable, but also recognized as demonstrative of the maturity of the writer. In this case, regardless of the underlying "facts" the phrase accurately describes the net effects of the battle, regardless of the various ways it might be interpreteted. The very validity of the phrase is only enhanced by the fact it has been pirated in so many other venues. There is nothing in the article that isn't adequately factual for inclusion. Wood Artist 04:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tagged for tone

"While it is true that "the pen is mightier than the sword" (and this anomaly is proof), it is also true that the first shots of the American Revolution, though not "heard ‘round the world", were the first in a war for freedom that, ever since and forevermore, will be written in blood on the hearts of every man, woman, and child." The above is a prime example of an extremely non-encyclopedic tone that persists throughout the article, and definitely needs to be attended to. Tozoku 20:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Urban Myths and Legends"

I deleted a section of text that is very similar to those popping up across several articles related to the Battles of Lexington and Concord. An editor or group of editors is determined to "debunk" the idea that these battles marked the outbreak of the American Revolution, asserting instead that the Revolution began with an insurrection at Fort William and Mary. The fact that this claim is nonsense aside, this "debate" has nothing to do with Emerson's poetic phrase, which is the subject of this article. The text was inappropriate for this topic. Venicemenace 11:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Shot heard 'round the world → Shot heard round the world — The spelling 'round instead of round is a hypercorrection by those who mistakenly believe the word is an abbreviation of around. It may well be that "Shot Heard 'Round the World (baseball)" is canonically spelled with the spurious apostrophe, but as a generic phrase not specific to baseball it's inappropriate. The original Emerson poem doesn't have it. —jnestorius^(talk) 13:12, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The title with the apostrophe became the name of the article as the result of an IP user's cut-and-paste move in 2005. I'll restore the page to the original title and merge the histories, as there doesn't seem to have been much interest in discussing the request here. Dekimasuよ! 08:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

tone or whatever?

i find it disturbing that an article on wikipedia, the source of all official possibly misleading information yet entirely allowable nonetheless, would, even COULD have a tone that was unfortunate, unsettling, distasteful, disgraceful, even outright silly.

when you have voluntarily put up the equivalent of an encyclopedic tagger wall what do you expect?

quit flaggin the shit and just goddam fix it if it aint to your damn standards.

me, i know that there are some people you just don't let into your house 'cause you know they will fuck it up. case in point? that colbert guy. the elephant thing. remember? you know some of the rest. i dont give a damn how good u are, you don't know the all of them and you don't have time or knowledge to find them. just rest assured i aint one. i only look here for references from the posts. you know, the ones that can't be fucked with on a whim. like books. and stuff.

right now i'm laughing my ass off for two reasons. first, you know (probably a while back) that i'm right to a good degree, and second, that you put up with my deliberate childish phrasing and lack of punctuation which i also know probably got on your nerves too. so do us all a favor and FIX THE SHIT INSTEAD OF TELLING EVERYONE THAT IT MIGHT NOT BE UP TO YOUR STANDARDS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

PS- i haven't looked but i bet the ron paul page is about 980000 feet of real paper long about now... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.110.227.11 (talk) 07:32, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(cough cough) WP:CIVIL (cough cough) --Jayron32|talk|contribs 06:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of link to band named this

There have been repeated attempts to add a link to the website of a musical group names "Shot heard round the world". There is no evidence that such a band is notable in any way, and without such evidence, the link is inappropriate. This sort of blatant advertising and is not what Wikipedia is about. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 01:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Shot

I had always understood the phrase to refer to one specific farmer who fired the first shot back against the British, or more accurately the first shot across the bridge ("By the rude bridge that arched the flood") where the British were turned back and began their long bloody retreat to Boston. And if that is the case, it was a singular shot. I believe that I have read the name of the Minuteman who fired it, but my copy of _Paul Revere's Ride_ is packed away right now.