Talk:Bektashism

This page should be renamed "Bektashi Order of Dervishes". Either that or "Bektashi Islam". In addition it should be accesible by both Bektashi and Bekteshi spellings as the original Albanian can be translated differently. freestylefrappe 02:18, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

In Albanian it's bektashi, but I don't see why couldn't have a redirect. If you want to move it feel free, I just picked the most common name. Dori | Talk 03:51, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

I would if I knew how... freestylefrappe 00:54, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

Bektashi are not Sufi order. Sufi are Mevlevi Order

I can add some things I know about Bektashi similiarities to other religions but it would be helpful if it was re-termed by someone that knows what and how Bektashi see it. Example: confession was clarified to read, "yearly confession to a baba". The names of the rites that Bektashi do would be better named by bektashi names. I don't know them.

Baptism was taken out by the next edit. Is this untrue?

Other similiarities I will add to the article with input from others:

Shared reverence for Cosmas of Aetolia (Shen Kosma or Choban Baba) and Spyridon (Sari Salltik) as well as many saints with Albanian Orthodox Christians.

Religious imagery of saints.

Secretive baptism in water mixed with the essence of roses. Those who go through it don't say what goes on.

The use of the Christian Gospel of John.

The use of the greeting, "the Lord is risen." on Christian easter.

Some Bektashi(s)? claim lineage to Adam through Seth.

I wanted to get feedback from others before putting this in the article.

Bektashi similarities

I think too much has been made in the past regarding alleged borrowings or similarities with faith traditions outside of Islam. As a Bektashi, I can assure you that every aspect of Bektashi thought can be backed up with some sort of Islamic precendent. For instance there is no such practice of “Baptism” in Bektashism, unless the aspirant’s making ghusl and wudu’ right before initiation is considered as such. The popular use of images of Imam Ali, the Twelve Imams and other saintlu personages is widespread throughout the Shi’i world and it appears to be something of a more modern phenomena and originating from Turkey. I know of no Bektashi ritual that utilizes amy of the previously revealed scriptures, although mention is often made in Bektashi and Alevi poetry of the “Four Books” (the Torah, Psalms, Gospel, Qur’an). I have never heard of, or experienced, Bektashis using the greeting "the Lord is risen." on Christian easter, nor have I heard of any claims to a primordial lineage that goes back to Seth, other than ones found in traditional Islamic legends. The phenomenon of “saintly borrowings” is, however, wellknown, and Hasluck made a determined study of it at the start of the last century. However, it must be known that these saints are venerated as Muslim holy men (and women) not as Christian ones.

And, yes, the Bektashis have traditionally been seen by Muslims as being a Sufi order, although in post-WWII Albanian and the Balkans it has evolved more into a sect rather than and order.

Humor & Legacy

May I learn what was "racist" in the sample jokes I put in Humor & Legacy section and why they were deleted? I can't believe this is serious. I am strongly offended with this meaningless accusation. I guess you consider them offensive against sunni muslims, but they are not considered offensive by sunni muslims in Turkey, these jokes are also common among them. Moreover, bektashis and sunni muslims share the same religion, ethnicity, and culture, so there is no western-sense "racial" discrimination between them. Even if we assume that the jokes could be considered offensive today from a universal perspective (which I don't agree as a muslim), this wouldn't make inclusion of them in an encyclopedia "racist", because they tell something about the culture and its history. Censoring these jokes simply means ignoring the culture, which is indeed anti-democratic, let alone being unrealistic. Will we delete the article about "Satanic Verses" because it is considered offensive by many muslims? Whatever your response is to my opinions, regardless of how we end up with this article, I am expecting an apology for the "racism" comment. It should not be this easy to label people as racist. I recommend Freestylefrappe's version be kept with the addition of two sample jokes, which were deleted by them. The text of the jokes could also be revised to remove any language that can be considered offensive. AldirmaGonul 04:44, 6 October 2005 (UTC)