Talk:Sathya Sai Baba movement/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Sorry

Sorry

apologies accepted. the confusing title should have been changed much earlier. Andries 13:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

See Talk:Beliefs_and_practices_in_the_Sathya_Sai_Organisation for old discussions. Andries 13:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC) See Talk:Sathya Sai Baba movement/Comments. Andries 00:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

See here for the history of this article [1]

Proposal for renaming this article into Sathya Sai Baba movement

See [2] [3] [4] [5] Andries 10:38, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below, and per naming conventions. -GTBacchus^(talk) 02:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Title should be Sathya Sai Baba movement

The title should be Sathya Sai Baba movement. Not The Sathya Sai Baba movement. See Wikipedia:Title#Avoid_the_definite_article_.28.22the.22.29_and_the_indefinite_article_.28.22a.22.2F.22an.22.29_at_the_beginning_of_the_page_name. Andries 18:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

• Support. Agree, "the" must go. If Kkrystian will agree, I'd say go ahead and move it back. However, looking through the history, I see that this article has already had many name changes, is there anyone supporting a third option? --Groggy Dice T|C 09:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose: Sathya Sai Baba movement sounds ungrammatical to me Kkrystian 19:01 (UTC+1) 4 Jan 2007
  • I think Krystian's argument is suspect because s/he is not a native English speaker. Andries 13:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support - per naming conventions. We simply don't use "the" in at the beginning of the title. -Patstuart^talk|edits 18:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Ekantik ^talk 02:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merge from Sathya Sai Baba

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was No consensus to merge. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 04:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

See talk:Narayana Kasturi. Please comment here. Andries 17:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• I do not support a merge. The person is not the same as the movement, and the movement is evidently pro-Sai Baba, whilst there may be people who are interested in him as a being (whether avatar or human), but not into the movement around him. Keeping separate allows for different points of view. In religion and faiths in particular there is also a tendency for the movement to evolve into a different creature over time (especially after the leader/founder's death) which may not be compatible with the teachings of the originator of that religion. Just as Jesus Christ and what he taught is not the same as the teachings of Catholic chruch for example, which has evoved a much more complex system of religion, many aspects of which one would find difficult to relate to any atributal teachings of Jesus. The term Christianity however is a direct reference to that man. In this same way, it is possible that the "Sai Baba Movement" may diverge from the teachings of Sai Baba, who is already a perticularly syncretic guru, and an apparent reincarnation of an earlier Muslim saint, Shirdi Sai Baba.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Organizations section

I copied the organizations section from Sathya Sai Baba because they are better suited here. I still have to check some of the sources that strike me as doubtful e.g. chennai online. Andries 22:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Sathya Sai Organization

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was No consensus to merge -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 04:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

See Talk:Sathya_Sai_Organization. Please discuss here. Andries 15:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• See my comments in the proposed merge above - same principles apply. Beverley.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Still contains some original research/personal interpretations

I am busy removing the remaining original research and personal interpretations from the article. I hope that I will be finished before I get banned by the arbcom that will most probably lead to a complete stand still of this article. Andries 19:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I am bold in editing, but I want to improve the article before I get banned, because the history of the article shows that only I am interested in the article. It will probably remain in its somewhat sorry state for a long time if I abandon it. Andries 20:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I made some mistakes in citations with Bowen, Babb, Nagel, and Kent. I also have possibly misinterpreted their works. I hope that I will be able to fix it before the ban take its effect. In the meantime I will give a warning on the article page. Andries 21:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

My assessment of sources: Kent, Bowen, Swallow

• Kent:
  • found only minor inaccuracies.
  • Hardly information about the life of SSB.
  • Book was published in 2005 but research took place between 1996-1998
  • Book has an index
• Bowen:
  • throughout the whole book SSB's paranormal powers are described as siddhis, though SSB denied in the 1976 Blitz interview that his powers are siddhis.
  • compares and explains Shiva and hence SSB with Dionysos in his conclusion. Implausible and unpractical; it is like explaining contemporary cars with chariots from Ancient. The conclusion is not or hardly suppported by his other writings.
  • Gives a timeline of SSB's life and the movement
  • Lengthy and no index
• Swallow
  • Implausible theoretical speculations about the meaning of SSB's claim to be an incarnation of Shiva

Andries 09:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sathya Sai Organisation official logo.jpg

Image:Sathya Sai Organisation official logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:15, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorted. Ekantik ^talk 22:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Kent "wrongly" describes the Sathya Sai Baba movement in Malaysia as a "Hindu Revitalization movement."

Kent wrongly describes the Sathya Sai Baba movement in Malaysia as a "Hindu Revitalization movement." Whilst local Hindu practices have indeed been encouraged, it would be wrong to use this term because Sai Baba has encouraged people of all religions to adhere to their own religions and has often quoted from the Bible and the Koran in his discourses. Furthermore, the official symbol of the Sai Baba organisation has the symbols of the five major world religions in each of the lotus petals so it is clear that it does not merely promote Hinduism.

sources please for the word "wrongly". Even if there are sources this cannot be written down as fact. I am aware that most (or many) devotees would disagree with Kent, but Babb disagrees with the viewpoint of the devotees on page 174 of Redemptive Encounters he writes that "this cult [is] deeply and authentically Hindu". Andries (talk) 08:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

The viewpoint of devotees is already in the article, properly attributed and sourced, (but with bad grammar)

"According to Kelly, they [ Sathya Sai Organization ] see its founder as the "living synthesis of the world's religious traditions" and prefers to be classified as an interfaith movement."

Andries (talk) 10:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)