Talk:Saiga-12

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I removed the referance to "America's Army" as the Saiga-12 does not make an apearance in any version of the game. --Paulwharton

I changed the "shortcomings" section, which had previously stated that the Saiga-12 could not be loaded on a closed bolt. It's quite possible, if anyone would like to know how, leave a note on my talk page. As for the below, why is it not relevant for an encyclopedia? The opinions stated aren't relevant to the argument (and the Saiga-12 is not a "bigger caliber" than any other 12-guage). --rwjohnst

This Article is not relevant for an encyclopedia. I suggest the author moves it to a wiki for fans of fire arms. Further, this weapon is not good for anything but injuring/killing civilians. Shot guns for hunting don't need to be semi-automatic and have a bigger caliber and better effective range anyway. This weapon is only good for show-offs and other wankers. --braeutigam

Ah, but our very own page on the subject states that an encyclopedia "is a comprehensive written compendium that contains information on all branches of knowledge or a particular branch of knowledge"... While I'm here, would anyone be willing and able to come up with a good copylefted photo of the complete unit, rather than just the dismantled parts? --BobBQ 04:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the original author and would be glad to provide complete photos of my gun. Sorry, I should have done this originally.

This encyclopedia has contained information on firearms since its inception, presumably because firearms have played an important role throughout modern history and in general human affairs for several centuries. This entry discusses a significant member of the shotgun family.

Regarding this comment "Further, this weapon is not good for anything but injuring/killing civilians." I would remind you that self-defense is a perfectly legitimate civilian activity. Additionally, the same reliability and ergonomics concerns that make it excellent for combat also make it an excellent hunting arm. You can buy capped off magazines for hunting waterfowl.

Beerslurpy 01:22, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and youre correct about being able to reload on a closed bolt, but it is a pain in the ass and not something I would attempt under stress.

Beerslurpy 01:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the Saiga-12 and Vepr-12 shotguns are made in Russia and exported worldwide. I removed some US specific verbiage about importation and if anyone can find any further ways to make this more globally relevant, please post it here.

Beerslurpy 01:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article mentions which other calibres the Saiga line is availble in. While I know 7.62 NATO is nearly identical to .308, the product is chambered and marketed as a .308 but the article mentions 7.62. Should we change this to .308 (which links to 7.62 NATO) for the sake of accuracy?? Also is there any interrest in an article for the whole Saiga brand? GarrettJL 22:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Technically speaking, .308 Win and 7.62x51mm NATO are different specifications. Basically identical for all practical purposes the .308 Win spec was conceived as the commercial cartridge spec to fit the NATO chamber spec. It's certainly splitting hairs, but at the very least the.308 Win spec comes from Winchester and the 7.62x51mm spec comes from NATO. Regardles of what spec source Izhmash uses, they say ".308", thus, .308 needs to be used here.

As for non-military uses: clearly there are a large number of civilian semiauto shotguns for hunting or sporting clays. What makes the Saiga 12 superior to most other sporting semiauto is the price. Ignoring its Kalishnikov looks, a Saiga 12 is half the price of most commercial autoloaders, is more durable, and has a detachable magazine. It's not as pretty as some, but from a cost effectiveness stand-point, it is the best buy. Nwilde (talk) 18:02, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article for the whole Siaga line?

I agree with GarrettJL; there should be an article referencing the whole Saiga line of rifles and shotguns. --Neo3DGfx 04:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have a decent digital camera and I can take some pictures of a Saiga .223, external, action, etc. Whatever you guys need. Would be nice to get some more pictures of other calibres. The ones with wooden furniture are particularly photogenic. I would write the article myself, but I'm not much of a writer. If I did, it would need ALOT of work. GarrettJL 19:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

I added the infobox along with some basic information. --Neo3DGfx

Micro-8

[Tromix] lead delivery systems uses the Saiga 12 as the base weapon for a line of short barreled shotguns. I think that someone should add them in someplace.--Paulwharton 10:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of Saiga

Whats the purpose of having picture of somebodys heavily modified weapon as article picture? You people need to find better picture of a basic weapon, in out of factory condition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.231.217.247 (talk) 10:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That IS in "out of factory" condition, except possibly for the buttstock (most of the ones I've seen are solid instead of skeletal, but they all fold.) The "normal" looking Saigas you see for sale in the states are actually heavily modified from their original Russian design in order to comply with ridiculous legal restrictions and to appear less "militarized."

If you want to talk about truly modified guns, I'll second the notion that Tromix should be mentioned. It's nearly impossible to have a discussion about Saigas without someone bringing 'em up... regardless of whether or not they deserve their rep, they're extremely high profile. --Lode Runner (talk) 05:56, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]