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December 4

Ground transportation from Newark/EWR

How long does it take to get from Newark Intl Airport/ EWR to Penn Station via AirTrain Newark and New Jersey Transit? We're talking about afternoon/early evening of a weekday (start: probably 4:30-ish or later). Thanks! Thanks for answering (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

You will wait up to 3 minutes for the AirTrain. Depending on your terminal, it will then take you about 10 minutes to reach the NJ Transit station. You will then wait up to 20 minutes for a New York bound train, which will take a little under 30 minutes to reach Penn Station. Total elapsed time: 40–63 minutes depending on your wait times. Marco polo (talk) 01:59, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

How would one have built his own home in the 1920s?

Yes, it's me again, with family history inspiring another query, because the relatives living are still a bit young to know details.

I know that my great-grandfather built the house he and his family lived in - and where my great-uncle still resides - in the early 1920s. History says he built it "himself." (This, BTW, would be in a city of about 120,000, not rural but not huge, either.) It has a basement, which I'm perhaps most curious about of all.

How would one do this. If I ever hear from the one living there now, he might have some clue, but I was wondering if any of you knew any links that would tell how homes were built then. Obviously, it's different from today; not near as many contractors, permits, etc., but to build a house singlehandedly, especially digging a basement as part of it, seems like a lot of work. Especially since they didn't have the backhoe and other bg equipment yet. Would it have been mroe similar to a barn raising like one would see in rural areas?

Thanks in advance; this reference desk is really nice.Somebody or his brother (talk) 02:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure that "built it himself" means "did all the work?" Not to doubt your family story, just to point out that what that phrase means is not the same from one person to the next. My brother-in-law built his house, too -- and did a good deal of the custom carpentry himself. He did not pour the foundation by hand; he didn't do all the plumbing with his two hands; essentially he was his own general contractor. Yours could have, of course; I'm just saying people tend to remember impressions more than facts. IN a city of 120,000 (definitely not "rural" in 1920) he could easily have swapped labor with others, or hired cheaply to dig a basement. --- OtherDave (talk) 02:33, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

It's entirely possible. My spouse's great-uncles hand-dug a basement for their mother with buckets and shovels decades after the house had been built. Just takes perseverance - my brother-in-law a couple of years ago hand-dug graves in old cemeteries where equipment couldn't be used and a 6 foot by 6 foot by 3 foot hole could be dug in several hours. Rmhermen (talk) 02:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I have a family member who bought and build a Sears Catalog Home sometime around the 10s or 20s. I know they were relatively popular in certain rural areas of Saskatchewan.NByz (talk) 05:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

If he had experience as a carpenter, electrician, plumber, excavator, roofer, mason, and concrete installer, then he might have "built it himself." But many parts of erecting a structure require multiple sets of hands. I sincerely doubt that one person, unaided, erected the house described under the circumstances specified, unless he was Superman or Popeye on Spinach. Maybe he was the carpenter and general contractor. Edison (talk) 05:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Building your own home normally involves bringing in people to do specialized work and just being there to provide grunt help, or not even that if you're rich. I helped build my parents home which they designed themselves and we had people in for all stages. For me it involved lots of hard work carrying up buckets of cement and things like that. Things like plastering for instance really need an expert and it has to be inspected at various stages. Dmcq (talk) 14:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Having all that experience isn't that uncommon, even now. My father, grandfather, great-grandparents each built at least one home including doing at least part of every kind of work involved. Perhaps those living in large cities are less familiar but where I grew up working on your house was as common as working on your car or your barn or your tractor. It is a fair point that several jobs usually require more than one set of hands but even log cabins have been built by a single person. Rmhermen (talk) 18:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I think it's do-able. I built a garden shed starting with a pile of lumber and lots of boxes of screws over thanksgiving weekend. It's framed with 2x4's, properly roofed with shingles and has siding just like a house and I designed it pretty much as I went along. A basic "shotgun" style house would basically be more of the same. Electrical work is easy - I've wired up rooms dozens of times, sheetrock is hard work - but you can do it. The only thing I might need help with would be plumbing and plastering...but it's not hard to imagine someone who picked up on those skills too being able to do the whole thing. It takes longer if you LITERALLY have to do it yourself - but having an occasional helper to hold something while you hammer it into submission does help. The toughest part would probably be making sure everything's up to code and passing all of the inspections - but that wouldn't have been a problem in the 1920's. Digging a basement would be a lot of work - but given a few weeks of dry weather, you could do it. SteveBaker (talk) 04:54, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Good free chess computer game?

What the title says. I don't want to buy Vista but I feel left out that everyone at my school can play ches son their laptops, lol. 67.169.56.73 (talk) 02:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's always chess.com. Useight (talk) 04:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

GNU Chess is open-sourced - so it's free - and it's actually a pretty strong program. It's unusual in that the interface for the player is super-crude. You type in a move - it prints its move. No graphics - nothing. However, it's designed so that other programs can provide the graphics and fancy point'n'click stuff. There are MANY programs that do the job of providing graphics for GNU Chess...under Windows, you'd probably want to use WinBoard. In fact, there are literally dozens of 'chess engines' that use the same interface as GNU chess - so you can generally pick the 'engine' that you like and pair it up with the user interface you like to make your own setup. Our article Chess engine says that there are HUNDREDS of chess engines to choose from - and lists a couple of dozen of them.

Crafty is a pretty good chess engine (and it also works with WinBoard) - it has an Elo rating of 2608 - which means that if it was a human, it would be one of the top 500 players in the world. SteveBaker (talk) 05:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Are there any handicapped chess engines for the rest of us? Mine has levels but the computer still wins. I was thinking one where the engine makes random mistakes. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:15, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Sure. I'm fairly certain that all of the available engines have a way to do that. Mostly they have the feature there to speed up play. Sometimes it can take the computer a long time to figure out the best move when playing its strongest game. The "Deep Blue" computer that beat Kasparov so famously had all sorts of special hardware and was a massive mainframe computer...a typical PC can probably play that well - but it might take a week to make a move!

But the programmers don't dumb them down by making them make random mistakes - they simply limit the number of turns the computer looks ahead and perhaps also limit the number of promising board positions that it examines more deeply at each step. This makes the computer play more like a less skilled human player would...it's more satisfying to win by 'out-thinking' your opponent than by taking advantage of a single stupid mistake. Another way to dumb down the computer is to limit the size of it's "openings" database so it doesn't simply play like a grand master for the first few moves by looking up all the other games that people won that started out that way.

Of course if you're continually losing - even on the 'dumbest' settings - then you probably just need to practice some more! SteveBaker (talk) 13:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed! Thanks Steve, for your helpful answer, I'm on it. :) Julia Rossi (talk) 21:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

College football

Current African American quarterbacks in college football—Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.43.65.254 (talk • contribs)

What about them? If you look at all of college football (Div IA, IAA, II, III and NAIA), there are literally hundreds of them. Even in Division IA (can't bring myself to use the rediculous new name), there are probably dozens. What is your question about them? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:39, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

If you required a name of a current black quarterback in college, then Juice Williams of Illinois.--droptone (talk) 12:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Or Russell Wilson at NC State or Tyrod Taylor at VaTech or a whole bunch of others... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Daryll Clark at Penn State was under-appreciated this year. But Droptone is right, Juice Williams was definitely the most popular in 1A.NByz (talk) 19:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Here is a very extensive list of both current and historical black D-I quarterbacks. -Elmer Clark (talk) 21:48, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Relationship of Siblings

"Jacks" parents divorced and his dad married "Jacks" mother's sister. Two more sons were born during the second marriage. What would be the correct genealogical method to categorize the relationship between "Jack" and the two brothers?Ilprairie (talk) 06:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Besides half-brothers, they'd also be cousins. - 131.211.211.5 (talk) 08:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

131 is correct; Jack and the other two boys (Mack and Zack) share a grandparent (the parent of the mother and her sister) and so are cousins. I'd say the half-sibling relationship, through the boys' father, is a closer one than cousin, though. Tangentially, the article on I'm My Own Grandpa managed not to include the lyrics. --- OtherDave (talk) 13:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

We had a similar situation in my family. Two of my mom's brothers each married a mother and daughter. That made the older brother both uncle and (step)-grandfather to his younger brothers children. To be WAY confusing, the younger brother's kids call the older brother "grandpa" and my grandmother (i.e. the mother of BOTH brothers) "grandma". Of course, that also made my grandmother both the "grandparent" and "greatgrandparent" of the same children. These kids are both my first cousins (unremoved) and my first cousins once removed, at the same time. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

For a similar situation in popular culture, see I'm My Own Grandpa -- 128.104.112.113 (talk) 22:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Trans-Canda-Highway Toronto

1. How come the Trans-Canada-Highway doesn't go through Toronto, Canada's largest City, but goes through small virtually unknown villages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.0.42 (talk) 14:19, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about this highway in particular, but the general reason is that local traffic in those cities would slow down people who are just trying to drive straight through. Thus, the main highway bypasses major cities and a spur or loop connects the main highway to the big cities. (Those spurs or loops do still get bogged down with traffic at rush hour, but the main highway remains clear.) A secondary reason is that it's easier to obtain land for the highway far from major cities. StuRat (talk) 15:02, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I would suspect that it is because Toronto is located deep in southern Ontario, well off the east-west route across Canada. In order to pass through Toronto, the Trans-Canada Highway would approach Toronto along the shore of Lake Ontario. (Looking at the current map, I'd guess that you'd head southwest on Highway 35 from the existing Trans-Canada in Peterborough, and follow Highway 401 west into Toronto.) On reaching Toronto (from the east), the new route would then have to take a sharp right turn north in order to get around Lake Huron and Georgian Bay (not to mention the U.S. state of Michigan). It would lengthen the route by at least a couple of hundred kilometers. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:29, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

There is another important reason. Quebec and Ontario both have large and extensive provincial highway networks (the Quebec Autoroutes and the 400-seriesKings Highway respectively). The western provinces lack these extensive road networks, so there was a much more pressing need for a uniform long-distance route. In Quebec, Autoroute 20 and in Ontario, Highway 401 already serve these purposes. Canadian federal services tend to focus on the western provinces rather than on Quebec and Ontario; as the population density of those provinces means that they are more likely to provide their own services; for example the RCMP doesn't provide provincial level law enforcement in Ontario (where the OPP handles it) or in Quebec (where the SQ does). Canada, like the US, is a federal system, which means that, being a seperation of powers between federal and provincial governments, there are jursidictional issues as to why some things occur one way in some provinces but not in others... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the tiny map in our Trans-Canada Highway article, it looks like the southernmost branch goes closest to Toronto near the town of Sunderland, Ontario, approximately 100 km away. StuRat (talk) 22:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

It sort of does, since Yonge Street eventually connects to it. That is, you can drive from the edge of Lake Ontario all the way to the end of the TCH without really leaving the road. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:54, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

If you're driving across Canada, you only have a few choices for the 24-hour drive across Ontario. One of them is Highway 7, which actually joins Highway 12 a little north of Sunderland (10 minutes north of Saintfield, where I used to live!) and heads north to meet Hwy. 11 / Yonge St. north of Lake Simcoe, thence to North Bay and the big trek through Northern Ontario, where all the trucks go. The other choice is to follow Hwy 17 up the Ottawa River valley, through North Bay and Sudbury, over to the Soo, then all the curvy way around the shore of Lake Superior, up and down some pretty impressive hills. Those are your choices, there ain't no more.

In any case, the Trans-Canada highway was made for driving across Canada, so there's no need for the detour down to Toronto. And as noted, southern Ontario had a well-developed road network long before the TCH. Franamax (talk) 02:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

How much money does a Russian Citizen need to have on them when visiting the United Kingdom?

Hello, I was wondering if anybody could advise me how much money a Rusian Citizen needs to be able to show at border control in order to be allowed to visit Britain on a Visitors Visa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrissie11000 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I suggest you contact the relevant authority to enquire (details here). From my interpretation of what it says on that site (which could easily be wrong), you shouldn't need to show actual cash, but you may need to show you have access to sufficient funds for your visit (a bank statement, for example - you'll have had to show the same evidence when applying for your visa, just have that with you). --Tango (talk) 18:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The British embassy in Moscow should be your first point of contact - address here. As Tango said, I doubt you would need to show cash (though you will need to pay the Visa fee), but evidence of your intent to return home to Russia (eg. a return plane ticket) and sufficient funds to support your stay is usually all that is needed. Astronaut (talk) 21:31, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Josh sticks

I would like to know if josh sticks are harmfull to breath in especially for children? I know if they were harmfull they would proberly not be sold but if that was the case then cigarettes would not be sold too. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.235.138.149 (talk) 19:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd have thought it most unlikely that joss stick smoke would not have carcinogenic substances in it. I do not know that for certain. If so, they pose a risk to anything around them that breathes. I don't know of any work that's been done to quantify the risk. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:47, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Smoke in general is not a good thing to breathe, with the cancer risk (see polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon) being one reason, but far from the only one (see particulate and carbon monoxide). On the other hand everyone breathes some smoke — you have to keep these things in perspective. For me personally, I would not expose myself to it on a regular basis (and certainly wouldn't want it around kids on a regular basis) but it wouldn't keep me from going into the home of someone who used it on an occasional basis. That's just my personal risk assessment and is not based on any specific knowledge of this particular kind of smoke. --Trovatore (talk) 22:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know of any studies related to medical effects of incense on children. In most things moderation is a key. It is almost certain that an excess of incense would be bad for small children. I can't comment on the risk of a low key usage. Steewi (talk) 00:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Moderation and ventilation. More at joss sticks. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

From our incense article: "Research carried out in Taiwan in 2001 linked the burning of incense sticks to the slow accumulation of potential carcinogens in a poorly ventilated environment by measuring the levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (including benzopyrene) within Buddhist temples. The study found gaseous aliphatic aldehydes, which are carcinogenic and mutagenic, in incense smoke."--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

There was a story several years ago about a family that burned all sorts of incense and candles that they'd imported from who-knows-where over a period of maybe 10 years. When their kids started having educational difficulties, they were tested for lead poisoning (a common cause of their particular learning problems) and found to have dangerous levels of the stuff in their bodies. When their house was tested, it was discovered that every surface and crevice of the place had been coated with a fine layer of dust that contained lead and a number of other toxic heavy metals that had been deposited there by smoke settling out from burning all of these things over such a long time. The shocker was that the cost of cleaning up the toxic mess was so great that the house had to be demolished - and worse still, their insurance company wouldn't cover them for the cost. Candles with lead in them are now banned in the USA - but apparently, not from incense, joss-sticks or other things like that...also, many candles imported from around the world are not properly tested for lead and other heavy metals which are often used to make the flame burn more consistently. (Google 'lead candle wick' for a ton of references on this kind of thing).

Consequently, I strongly advise against burning ANYTHING like that indoors except perhaps on very special occasions. We get enough crap in our lungs as it is - you don't need to add to it.

SteveBaker (talk) 13:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

December 5

Why do conservatives tend to favor regressive taxes?

Why do many conservatives tend to have an affinity for regressive taxes? e.g sales taxes, especially on food and rent, or combining a property tax cut with a sales tax hike (which makes all renters worse off)

Fiscal conservatism (traditional 'republicanism', or 'right-wing thinking')in the United States is associated with supply-side economics and traditional and strict laissez faire policies. They believe that the least government involvement is the best way to lead to economic growth, which will, in turn, make everybody better off. That means that any tax levied should be "non-distortionary"; it shouldn't influence people's behavior. A progressive tax system tends to produce a distortion; it more highly discourages the next unit of output from the 'most productive' people (the people who are able to draw the highest wages). People who follow this ideology would prefer a "flat tax," (considering the net effect of sales, income, investment and other taxes) all else being equal.

Sales taxes are definitely regressive. But when put together with a progressive income tax, they may just end up flattening the whole marginal taxation curve. Even a 'flat tax' is progressive if there is a 'basic amount' that isn't taxable. The average tax rate goes up with income (even if the marginal tax rate stays flat).

The way I look at the battle between left and right is as one between equity and efficiency. There are plenty of 'equity' or 'equality'-based arguments that throw wrenches in the right-wing ideologies as the best means of 'increasing total utility' (a word for "happiness" or "usefulness"). For example, clearly a dollar of income is marginally more valuable to a low-income person than a high-income person. The condition for maximum utility, however, is that everyone's marginal utility be the same as everyone else's. This suggests that the best way to maximize total utility is for everyone's income to be the same. A supply-sider would say that situation would discourage further production and economic growth and make future generations (or future years for this generation) worse-off than they otherwise could be. Naturally, the only solution to this problem is to find out 1) by how much a progressive reform will reduce future production and 2) find out at what 'discount' or 'interest' rate we discount that future utility loss back to present value, and 3) set the "present value of the future loss of utility" equal to the "current gain in utility" that the progressive reform causes.

There is also the idea that income disparity leads to a system that is best described using a 'Class model' (lower class, middle class, upper class) where only the upper classes have access to the education needed to become that 'most highly productive worker,' resulting in other labour allocation inefficiencies.

It's best to not make judgments on potential policies based on any sort of underlying ideology. Rather, it's best to consider each from cost-benefit "present value of all future utility" point of view.

The progressivity of sales taxes can also be improved by exempting or zero-rating food, shelter and other basic goods.NByz (talk) 00:46, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

NByz is right to an extent, but I think it represents a particular world and moral view as well as an economic one. If the extreme of the economic left-wing is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" (a quote from Marx. Not accusing anyone of being Communist before you get all crazy) then the extreme of the right-wing would be "From each in his ability to each in his ability." Morally, the right wing beleives that one should be deserving of what they receive as measured by its usefulness to society. Ayn Rand (a laissez faire fanatic) said "Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

The question for many on the right is what is more just. Should someone who does a job that society doesn't value (a low paying job) contribute less to the upkeep of the government than someone who does a job that society values more? A person with right wing ideology would say no and would probably even prefer a user pays system. If the rich person eats well and gets lots of exercise why should they subsidise the extra healh care costs of the poor person? A flat "living in society" tax would be the ideal extreme right-wing tax. It does not discourage extra (marginal) consumption or production and it represents the equal rights/responsibilities of people within society. Of course such a tax would be unrealistic, but idealogically it represents the pure right-wing (and is certainly a "regressive tax")

Jabberwalkee (talk) 02:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I know for a fact that the moral view you mention is held among many. I organized a mayoral campaign for someone over this last year who - it slowly came out (in my eyes) - held it himself. He had some very good intuition about economics, and "the free market usually achieving the best resource allocation", but it was supported by his own competitiveness, not economic theory.

Also, a "living in society tax" (we call it a lump-sum tax, as opposed to the flat tax mentioned above) is certainly regressive. But in most economic models, it's - by far - the most efficient in the near term; it doesn't distort the free market resource allocation at all. It's only when you relax the (very necessary) assumptions within those models (perfect information, no administrative or transaction costs, the fact that individuals are not homogeneous and also experience diminishing marginal returns to income etc.) that they fare not as useful in real life. I stand by the idea that people who study economics do so in a very statistical and logical way. Normative Economics usually tries to present things in a way that accomplishes a socially responsible goal, usually "maximizing total utility." There will likely be many applications for Lump-Sum Taxes in the future that can take advantage of this efficiency gain, without being offset by a larger equity loss.NByz (talk) 03:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Surely the main problem with a lump-sum tax would be that it wouldn't make enough money. You can't set the tax amount higher than the poorest can afford to pay (not necessarily pay comfortably, but they need to have at least that much money, plus enough for the bare essentials that the state doesn't pay for), which would be quite a small amount (even if you take it to the extreme and say that those that can't afford to pay their way should just be allowed to starve to death - there's only so many people you can allow to starve before under-population becomes an issue). Your total tax revenue would then be that small amount times the total population, which isn't going to be enough to cover even those few things that really need to be state run (the armed forces, for example). --Tango (talk) 10:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the "people aren't homogeneous" problem (most economic models assume everyone is 'average'). But there are oligopolistic industries in which the firms are nearly homogeneous. Also, something like the window tax (in some sort of environment where people couldn't choose how many windows they had after the tax had been implemented) would achieve all of the benefits of a lump-sum tax (not influencing decisions) while remaining somewhat progressive. Maybe a "functioning neuron tax", assuming people wouldn't intentionally cause brain injuries... Keeping the idea of a lump-sum tax in the mind to address future taxation problems is useful (they're used in economics problems all the time). They remind us of the one extreme: perfectly non-distorting taxes.NByz (talk) 19:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I've always assumed that all the arguments of political conservatives for flat taxes and such are just a way to lower how much they pay, essentially selfishness. A true flat tax is completely unworkable, both because it would provide insufficient revenue and because the poor would be unable to pay. As noted above, it could work if you have a huge standard deduction, like with a nominal 50% tax rate with the first $20,000 excluded, but then this is just a progressive tax in disguise, with a 0% rate at $20K, a 10% tax rate at $25K, a 25% rate at $40K, a 40% rate at $100K, etc. While sales taxes probably charge a higher rate to the poor than the rich (since the rich spend less of their money on items which have sales tax), sales taxes still likely take in more total money from the rich. StuRat (talk) 13:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

While I tend to agree with your suggested motivation, not all political conservatives are wealthy - support for such policies also relies on those who are less well off but like to imagine that they will soon be rich and will then benefit from flat or regressive taxation. Warofdreams talk 14:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right that a flat tax is a progressive tax (but perhaps not in disguise!). Like I mention above, a flat tax with a large excluded amount means that the average tax rate increases for every dollar above the basic amount, even though the marginal tax rate stays the same. Most proponents of the flat tax use this argument often. Like I mention above, though, it's best not to be a proponent of anything, but rather examine each individually. Maybe I'm biased, but I rather like the tax system we have in Canada: A reasonable basic amount, and only three brackets. I would just prefer fewer services and lower marginal rates in each bracket.NByz (talk) 19:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Whereas opposition to tax simplification is motivated by what, a desire to pay more (or perhaps to spend more on compliance)? Is selfishness legitimate for some voters and not others? —Tamfang (talk) 06:46, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

If you set a generous tax-free earnings amount (say £15k) and then everything above that is taxed at a constant rate you have a simple tax system (at least on earnings). If you have a tax-free bracket, a 10% rate on the next X then a 20% rate on the next Y and then a 40% rate above Z you have a more complicated process. The benefit of the flat-tax is that it simplifies the tax system. It can allow for the poorest in society to pay (in wage-income terms) no tax. People appear to have preconceptions about how the tax would be implemented and ignore that the idea itself is a reasonably simple theory - the implementation will vary depending on the political party proposing/bring in the tax. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:20, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

That "simple" argument is used a lot, but I don't rteally buy it. Calculating tax in three brackets is really not that tough, it takes about 6 lines on my tax form. There are at least 400 lines in all, if you include all the schedules, special deductions, blah, blah. There are many other ways to simplify the income tax system than making 3 numbers into one. Franamax (talk) 17:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

It does add some confusion if you have a PAYE system and multiple sources of income. It's not too difficult to deal with, though, which is why the simplicity arguing rarely gets much support. --Tango (talk) 18:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand the simplicity arguement. If you are talking about compuational simplicity vs complexity, that arguement went out with the invention of the calculator. If you're talking about complexity of the law and the inability of people to understand it, that arguement goes back at least as far back as Cain pleading that he didn't fully understand the strictures and consequences of murder. Many laws are as complex as the tax code, that's why we have lawyers. Phil_burnstein (talk) 03:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sure, but if you made the tax code simpler you can spend less money on lawyers (and accountants). Having different bands for income tax doesn't make a great deal of difference to the tax code, though, it's the various deductions and special rates and things that complicate matters. --Tango (talk) 16:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think mainstream conservatives in any country favour regressive taxation. There is a global consensus for moderately progressive taxation. Compared with the extremes of earlier times, disagreements over the level of progression in modern debate are minor questions of degree. Abberley2 (talk) 18:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Buses in my city travel 100+/mph

How can I stop these crazy things? I think the drivers are all mad at thier Xs or something cause they sure bring out the ol' leadfoot. I aint lookin for no legal recourse here, and wouldnt get advice from y'all nohow. Are those things that the cops use to kill engines available to the public?--Sunburned Baby (talk) 01:10, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by NByz (talk • contribs) 03:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I can see it now, SB, duelling universal engine-killing remotes flicking out all across the lanes. Zap! no zap you! Zap you m...f... – so expect to get a badge before you get the tools. But I could be wrong, it's a big world. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:08, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it all buses or just the ones with Keanu Reeves on?-- WORMMЯOW  08:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually very surprised that there are busses that can make it up to 100mph - and even more surprised that they don't have speed regulators on them. I suspect our OP is exaggerating somewhat. SteveBaker (talk) 13:08, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Bus drivers are expected to keep to a certain schedule, so if they get held up in traffic, they probably try to make up the time on the open stretches. Their sheer size (the buses, not the drivers) and the fact that they usually travel in the curb lane may also make them seem to be going faster than they are.

You should talk to your city council, or call a newspaper and see if they will assign someone to check with a radar gun and write a story. Advocating for your local transit to have the little gizmos that delay traffic-light changes until the bus gets through the intersection would also help the buses to keep to their schedule without having to speed. Franamax (talk) 17:47, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Christmas in Australia

Christmas in the United States is marketed and celebrated with songs and decorations focused on winter. For example, Santa Claus is pictured in a heavy wool suit and cap driving a team of reindeer on his sleigh through the snow (or the air). People wear Santa-like wool (or faux wool) hats. Buildings are decorated with evergreen branches and wreaths as a reminder of the one part of the landscape that remains green through the winter. Many Christmas songs refer to snow. I happen to live in a part of the United States where snow is a real possibility and cold weather a near certainty at Christmas. However, I lived for several years in coastal California, where snow is almost unknown (except on distant mountain peaks) and lots of plants not only remain green but turn green during winter. When I lived in California (having grown up in a snowier climate), I found the wintry and snowy iconography of Christmas weirdly out of place. Still, while California has a mild climate, even in California, the nights are longer, the days are shorter, and there is sometimes a chill in the air in late December.

In Australia, on the other hand, Christmas, a holiday that probably originated as a winter solstice celebration, is celebrated near the summer solstice, when days are warm and long, nights are short, and people can frolic comfortably in the surf in just a bikini. Do Australians sing Christmas songs about sleigh rides in the snow or about the "deep of winter"? Do they picture Santa Claus or Father Christmas driving his reindeer down the beach in a heavy wool suit? Wouldn't he be sweating uncomfortably? Don't those songs about snow and winter seem completely out of place? If Christmas in Australia is not associated with images of winter, what images do Australians associate with the holiday? Thanks! Marco polo (talk) 03:03, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Some of this is answered in our article on Christmas worldwide#Australia. Nanonic (talk) 03:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I haven't read that article. But as someone who live in Australia, the answer to most of your questions is yes. Our Christmas images very much come from the Northern Hemisphere. So all images of Santa show him in a think coat and what not. - Akamad (talk) 06:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Agree. The article mentions that television ratings crash (as of this past week I noticed) to the level of unabashed repeats of old shows willy nilly. Families can be individually creative about the emblems of Christmas, but households in some neighbourhoods make decorating the outside: the house and garden flashy and families drive around to see the displays. Christmas dinner can be anything from a seafood buffet to barbecues to the traditional roast dinner – with paper hats, candles, green and red everywhere and the classic northern hemi christmas tree. Media advertising is pushing the Santa in board shorts near a red/white caravan and a clothesline before a surfboard magically appears in his arms and he heads to the surf. But that's advertising... Some community groups hold carols in the park around the suburbs. It's sweltering day this minute, Julia Rossi (talk) 08:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm reminded of the Rolf Harris song "Six white boomers" (1961) which claims that when Santa crosses the equator to head down to Australia, he swaps out the Reindeer for six snow-white "boomers" (Adult, male kangaroos are called 'boomers') to pull his sleigh. The names of the boomers - and whether any of them has a glowing nose - is sadly not recorded in the lyrics. SteveBaker (talk) 13:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Another Australian Christmas song that parodies images of santa riding on a sleigh in Australia is Christmas where the Gum Trees Grow. An American song on the same theme is Santa's Gonna Come in a Pickup Truck - pickup trufcks are similar to what Australians call utes. We have other Australian Christmas carols, and a tradition of Carols by Candlelight.

Here in Perth, it's usually between 25 and 35°C (77 and 95°F) on Christmas day, but the conditions vary within Australia. It snowed on the mountains on Christmas day, 2006, but temperatures have been as high as 48.3°C (118.9 °F) in Gascoyne Junction, Western Australia, on Christmas day (see this radio program transcript). You can find averages and extreme temperatures for many Australian places at on Christmas day this site by a climatologist who is now at the Bureau of Meteorology. Graham87 14:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

It's been known to snow in Hobart on Christmas Day (or at least on Mt Wellington). In Canberra ("the heart of the nation"), where I lived for many years, it can be stinking hot at Christmas, but the really hot weather tends not to start till early January, and I have many memories of surprisingly cool Christmas Days there. The Australian Christmas Carols of William G. James became very popular, particularly the one that starts "The north wind is tossing the leaves, the red dust is over the town ...". -- JackofOz (talk) 21:29, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I live in New Jersey, which I dislike, and had to work late on Christmas Eve two or three years ago. It was snowing here and believe me, I wasn't the happy man. I had on internet radio a Sydney station, I think it might have been 2GB Racing (Does that sound familiar?). Callers, already celebrating Christmas, were describing their day, which seemed to run thusly: 1-- Open presents. 2-- Hop down to the market for fresh seafood. 3-- Eat the fresh seafood. 4-- Head off to Bondi or wherever for a day in the sun and sea. Envious I was, envious I am. 98.235.67.132 (talk) 06:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Note that Australia isn't the only country in the world that celebrates Christmas in summer: see South Africa, Brazil, etc etc. In South Africa a lot of the carols focus on the story of christmas, but sadly there are still a few that talk about dashing through the snow etc etc. The explanation is simply that these songs and themes are all American because America has been the biggest developer of the modern Christmas affair. Rfwoolf (talk) 05:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Rail intersections with no switches

Are there any surface rail intersections that do not have switches or any other interchange mechanism, or where the switches are unused, but where both tracks are in use? NeonMerlin 03:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I guess you mean an intersection at the same elevation...Railroad switch has a lot of information - but I think what you want is a Level junction - there are four of them in the photo over HERE====>

And if you read the article, you'll see that they are not all that uncommon, particularly when the two tracks were built by different companies.

Here in Toronto I can think of a place where there are two such rail intersections close together, as a double-track CP line running roughly east-west crosses two CN lines running roughly N-S and NW-SE. The first is near Lansdowne Avenue and Dundas Street (at latitude/longitude coordinates 43.66729,-79.44904); the second is half a mile west of there (at 43.66723,-79.46).

If you look an aerial view of the second junction (in Google Maps, say), you will see that there do seem to be junction curves connecting the two lines. But if you look more carefully, you will see that they do not touch the straight double track of the CN line. Instead they lead to other CP tracks which run alongside the CN tracks, on the west side south of the junction and on the east side north of it. I remember when there was also a single track across the center of the junction, connecting those latter two CP tracks to each other -- it crossed the east-west double CP track and the NW-SE double CN track on the level in almost the same place, effectively a six-pointed arrangement! The railways must have decided that this was not used enough to be worth the cost of maintaining such an expensive bit of specialwork and taken it out.

--Anonymous, 05:05 UTC, December 5, 5005... er, I mean 2008.

Verst

Is the verst still a standard unit of measurement in Russia? The Wikipedia article refers to it as obsolete, but it's used in the lead section of Tsarskoye Selo. I figure it should probably be removed anyway per WP:UNITS, but now my curiosity's been piqued. --Fullobeans (talk) 05:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The Soviet Union abolished all but metric units in 1924. Chances are it has survived as a customary unit. Shouldn't be in that article anyhow. Fribbler (talk) 21:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! --Fullobeans (talk) 18:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Piglets and other baby animals

Eating Lamb is pretty normal and Venison (Calf meat?) isn't that unusual, but I have never heard of eating Piglet. Is there a special name for meat from young-pigs like there is for meat from sheep/cows? Also what other animals are routinely eaten that are eaten in both young and old form. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

For eating young pigs, see suckling pig. (Warning - if you don't like the idea of food that looks back at you you may find the picture at the top of that page unpleasant.) Gandalf61 (talk) 11:37, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Poussin aka Spatchcock. Julia Rossi (talk) 11:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Note that calf meat is called veal, while venison is deer meat. --Sean 14:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Do eggs count? In some cases though the eggs may be eaten but the bird is not, gulls eggs for example. Duck and duckling. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 17:27, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

How about duck eggs where the embryo is almost fully formed and the egg is pickled? I believe it's a Chinese delicacy (though it makes me shudder just a bit). Franamax (talk) 17:36, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Worst is the indonesian delicacy which can be found with the street vendors as well they call it BALUT which is a completelt formed chick within the egg after hatching for 14 days, they are boiled and eaten juicySeekhle (talk) 20:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I live Indonesia and I never heard any such food. Isn't that Phillippine? Salbazier (talk) 20:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Our article balut supports Salbazier on this - balut appears to be eaten in the Philippines, Cambodia, and Vietnam. DuncanHill (talk) 20:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Chapan article

In the article "Chapan", It said that Hamid Karzai wears a grey colour karakul cap which means it represents the Tajiks, so what Pashtuns, Uzbeks and Turkmen; Baloch and Hazara people? Also, you said chapan is Uzbek. So, what about Pashtun, turkmen, Baloch, Tajik and Hazara? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.204.74.239 (talk) 17:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Where can I get some flamethrowers?

I promise to use them responsibly.GarageShipbuilder (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

From our article on flamethrowers, there appear to be several different kinds of flamethrowers; it would help answer your question if we knew what you are planning to do with yours. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 19:35, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Just guessing - does he want to build ships in his garage? Itsmejudith (talk) 20:41, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

It used to be possible to buy small flamethrowers for killing weeds in your back yard. Nothing very exciting - but possible. SteveBaker (talk) 21:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Seriously? That's just a way to convince your wife to let you buy a flamethrower, surely? --Tango (talk) 21:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm - it turns out that you can still get those things...This one produces a 2' long 5" wide flame, half a million BTU's of 2000 degF flaming death!...OK, not exactly a full-scale military flame thrower - but pretty impressive for killing weeds! Yours for $50 from Amazon (you have to provide your own propane tank). This [2] review of the beast is pretty funny. SteveBaker (talk) 03:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

This thread (including SteveBaker's link) once again proves that the Reference Desk is great stuff to read over breakfast. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

naa, people, zippo lighter and supersoaker water pistol. fill it with parafin. use duct tape to fi the lighter to the water pistol and bobs your uncle. tried and tested, though original research is discouraged.

Devaluation (of national currency).

I am in the UK where the Bank of England have just reduced the base rate to 2%. I lived through the Wilson years when he told us "the £ in your pocket is still the same" (despite it being worth less in international currency markets by about 14%). I am also reading that China has beeen gradually reducing the value of the Yuan so as to retain its export market - and the expression used on Wiki is "beggar my neighbour", such that further devaluations by China will have a de-stabilising effect on world economies (Obama). My question is, if other major international currencies keep getting devalued by their respective governments as a ploy to gain an increased export market and reduce relatively expensive imports, where does it all end? And secondly, again in the UK, what is the effect of a national base rate of 0% interest? Does that mean I can borrow money without paying any interest on the loan? 92.20.50.40 (talk) 19:56, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

A drop in the purchasing power of a currency in its domestic market is called inflation. Devaluation of a currency doesn't necessarily cause inflation - it makes imports more expensive, which could increase the price of any product that has imported components (which is a large number of products in most countries today), but there are many other factors affecting inflation, so it is impossible to say exactly what would happen to prices if you devalue a currency. The way China's government keeps its currency artificially low is by buying up any foreign currency at an artificially high price. Obviously, buying something for more than it is worth is a very expensive thing to do, so there is a limit to how much it can do so before it runs out of money (and would have to print more, which would cause inflation), I'm not sure what the cost is or how much more they could afford, but there is a limit somewhere (the lower the price of Yuan is compared to its real value, but more it costs the state to buy all the foreign currency, so they can't devalue it too far). Also, the foreign currency the Chinese government buys is pretty useless to it - it can't convert it back to Yuan without driving the value of the Yuan back up, so instead it just has to hold onto it, which is why China has such massive foreign reserves. It can invest it overseas (in US treasury bonds for instance), but it can't spend it in China. This gives it significant influence on the international stage, but isn't much good at home. The other side to keeping exports cheap is that imports are expensive, so standard of living is reduced for the Chinese people. The economic growth that the large exports allow compensates for that, but only so much, if they took it too far things would get very bad for the Chinese people (some would say they are already very bad - I don't know enough about the situation to comment). Oh, and a zero percent base rate means banks can borrow for free, it doesn't mean you can - the banks will charge you interest in order to make a profit. --Tango (talk) 20:30, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

In the case of China, there is no need to buy foreign currency at an inflated price to suppress the yuan. China has a large current account surplus, because its exports are worth more than its imports. As a result, it earns more foreign currency than it spends. Normally, a Chinese exporter would convert the foreign currency into local currency, and this would drive up the price of China's currency. Instead, the Chinese central bank in effect prints yuan, exchanges them for the foreign currency (usually US dollars) and uses the foreign currency to buy government bonds (mainly US Treasury bills) to its already massive reserves to keep the yuan from appreciating. To answer your question, no one knows where it will all end. The world's central banks seem to be launching a mutual campaign of what is called competitive devaluation. Their goal is not only to gain advantage for their exporters but also to prevent deflation. There is some danger that competitive devaluation, if unchecked, could lead to inflation or even hyperinflation in some countries, and trade barriers to protect domestic industries in others, both of which would disrupt international trade. So competitive devaluation is likely to be self-defeating in the long run. Marco polo (talk) 21:26, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

What you're describing *is* buying foreign currency at an inflated price. If the central bank wasn't offering a higher price than anyone else, exporters wouldn't sell their foreign currency to the central bank. They would sell it on the free market, driving up the value of the Yuan. --Tango (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

In a sense, the price that the central bank pays is inflated; however, exporters (or more accurately, I think, their banks) don't have a choice in the matter. In China, they are required to hand over their foreign exchange to the central bank. Marco polo (talk) 23:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Tango, the Chinese government isn’t at all worried about converting its dollar holdings into renminbi and having the result of driving up the value of the currency. As in all supply and demand cases, if you add dramatically to the supply (convert dollars to renminbi), the price falls (depreciation) relative to other prices (inflation). However, more to the point, there is no reasonable appreciation / depreciation of the renminbi (say, under 50%) that is going to have a significant impact on China’s exports. Its competitiveness is far more broadly based than mere exchange rate measures. Finally, the Chinese consumer really doesn’t care much about the price of imports; Mrs. Zhou Sixpack doesn’t buy much from abroad. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:13, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Bank difficulties with home loan (EMI)

What is the difference between the floating rate of interest and fixed rate of interest? as i have a home loan with Citibank india and as the economy has crashed should i assume that the rate of interest i need to pay will be lower now, i have had no information for this from the bank so far.My monthly EMI was increased substantially the last year, i believe it should be decreased now? Can i do something about it? any advices pleaseSeekhle (talk) 20:16, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Read your loan documents carefully. It is doubtful that anyone here knows specifically what it says in the contract that you signed. For anything you don't understand, call or visit the bank to get a clear explanation. --LarryMac | Talk 20:37, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The economic troubles don't necessarily mean interest rates will decrease - central banks around the world have been lowering the rates they charge banks, but that doesn't mean banks are lowering the rates they charge customers (some are, certainly, I have no idea what is going on in India at the moment). You are currently on a floating rate mortgage, which means your interest rate changes as the economic situation changes. You could switch to a fixed rate mortgage (they may well be administration fees, etc., to pay to do that) which would stay at the same rate for a given length of time - this is a gamble, if interest rates go up, you've saved money, if they go down, you've lost money (I'm not going to try and guess what they're going to do - see a financial advisor if you want detailed advice). It may also be possible to get a "tracker mortgage" which is a fixed amount about the national base rate set by the central bank, that's similar to a floating rate except the central bank makes the decisions rather than your bank. What it is best for you to do will depend on the details of your situation, so I can't really advise you - you'll have to see a professional financial advisor. --Tango (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You will have chosen either fixed rate or floating (variable) rate when you took out the mortgage. You might have changed that if you renewed the mortgage. Your mortgage documents will tell you which. Note that even if interest rates change, your mortgage rate may not necessarily change, or it may not change for quite a while (seeks or months). Ask your mortgage company about anything you don't understand. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:12, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Rate of Fire of a Micro Uzi

per http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28053216/

In an article pertaining to a gun related accident, Hampden District Attorney William Bennett said in a news release regarding the Micro Uzi, "It is not a hunting weapon. It has a rate of fire of 1,700 rounds per second."

I don't know much about firearms - but 1,700 rounds a second seems beyond ridiculous. The artice on Uzi states 600 rounds per minute. Is 1,700 rounds a second possible? By the way which submachine gun has the highest rate of fire (and what is the rate)?Bikingshaun (talk) 20:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The rate of fire article has some useful information, including this: "Another factor influencing rate of fire is the supply of ammunition. At 100 RPS, a one-second burst from the M134 [a type of minigun mounted on helicopters] would use approximately 2.5 kg (5 lb) of 7.62 mm ammunition; this alone would make it an impractical weapon for infantry who have to carry a reasonable supply of ammunition with them." I'm sure he must have meant 1,700 rounds per minute (28.33 RPS). Recury (talk) 20:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

1,700 rounds a *minute* might be possible, per second sounds unlikely. Our article Rate of fire, gives lots of numbers in the range of 1000s RP*M*, it's only example of RPS is 100 RPS in an example of something that isn't possible (due to the sheer amount of ammunition you would get through). I expect he misspoke and meant per minute. --Tango (talk) 20:54, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The M61 Vulcan cannon used to hold the record for the highest rate of fire (perhaps it still does - I'm not sure). But it shoots 6600 rounds per minute...that's 110 per second. So so our rate of fire article could use some work!

STOP PRESS: the Russian Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-23 claims 10,000 rounds per minute (166 per second!!). Running out of ammo is certainly a problem - the MiG 31 carries only 2 seconds worth of ammunition for it's Gsh-6 cannon!

But certainly an Uzi hand-gun can't possibly come close to that...no way.

SteveBaker (talk) 21:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Um, the sentence about the MiG 31 in that article is very confusing, but it does not appear to say that this aircraft carries a GSh-6-23 with 2 seconds' worth of ammunition. --Anon, 23:36 UTC, December 5, 2008.

Indeed. It seems to say they can carry a maximum of just over 5 seconds worth. I don't know where the 260 rounds figure came from. --Tango (talk) 00:26, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm - the MiG-31 article has the same confusion. In the body of the article it says it carries 800 rounds - but in the summary table at the bottom, it says 260 rounds. There is a discussion about this on the article's talk page - it's a mess! Someone says it's 800 PLUS a further 260 in an optional external pod...someone else says this is impossible - the weight/bulk of 800 rounds of 23mm ammo is too much...sounds like nobody really knows. SteveBaker (talk) 03:10, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

1700 rounds per second is impossible; he made a mistake. Per [[3]], the Micro-Uzi is capable of firing at 1250 rounds per minute, which personally surprised me as I had expected it to be lower. Acceptable (talk) 05:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The other problem with very high rates of fire is that the barrel overheats, warps, cracks or blows apart. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Skins

I changed my 'skin' to 'MySkin', but unfortunately it does not offer the choice of 'preferences' etc., that you normally get. Nor does it offer a search box. Now, how do I change this bloody thing back to normal, without the 'preferences' thingy? Bloody annoying!--KageTora (talk) 20:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Does this link work: Special:Preferences? Algebraist 20:29, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, just for future reference, you should probably ask this at the help desk. Thanks, Genius101^Guestbook 22:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

American and British english

what are the most fundamental differences between a british and an American english verbal and written,which can prove as a foundation or a starting point for the training i will want to impart to few people involved in mailing the American as well as British customers.Can anyone suggest me from the training perspective?eagerly waiting and thanking you in advanceVikram79 (talk) 20:37, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

A good starting point would be our article American and British English differences. --LarryMac | Talk 20:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The differences come in at all levels of language.

• We represent things differently in writing - for example, 12/6/08 is the sixth of December in the US, but it's the twelfth of June in the UK.
• We spell things differently ('color' vs 'colour' is the most well known one - but consider 'plow' versus 'plough'). Most words that end 'ize' in US english are 'ise' in UK english. US english has gone through a partial effort to simplify it and make spelling fit pronunciation more accurately - but the effort was rather half-hearted, so now we have all of the disadvantages of different spellings without the advantages of a streamlined, cleaned-up language.
• We pronounce things differently (many Americans do not pronounce the 'h' in the word 'herb' - but all British people do - the word 'garage' has a very soft second 'g' in the US - in the UK, many people would pronounce it 'garridge'). Some pronunciation differences are so extreme that they've essentially become new words entirely. The last letter of the alphabet is 'Zee' in US english and 'Zed' in UK english.
• There are a few subtle differences in punctuation.
• We use different words (my favorite example (for which there is a long and highly embarrasing story) is the word 'rubber' - which is a condom in the US but a pencil eraser in the UK) - parts of cars are the most confusing 'hood' becomes 'bonnet', 'trunk' becomes 'boot'...there are probably 100 words for car parts that are different. Some of these things are quite subtle. We both use 'ocean' to talk about the Atlantic and Pacific and 'sea' to talk about the Mediterranian and North Sea - but when you are talking generally about large bodies of non-specific salty water - Americans always talk about 'the ocean' and the British talk about 'the sea'.
• We phrase things differently (in the US, a baby 'learns to speak' - in the UK they 'learn to talk').
• We handle slang words quite differently. Slang in the US changes very slowly - it takes 10 to 20 years for a word to gain popularity and fade out again. In the UK it happens much faster.
• People have larger vocabularies in the UK than in the US.
• We have different accents (of course) - but dialects and accents are much more varied in the UK than in the US - in some places in the UK, you can tell where someone comes from to within a few streets by their accent...but in the US, you're lucky if you can nail it down to within a single state.

You could spend a lifetime learning the differences. I'm a Brit living in the US and although I've been here 15 years, I still find new things that I hadn't noticed before. SteveBaker (talk) 21:03, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

That thing about what a baby learns seems dodgy to me. And I'm afraid I'll have to slap a "citation needed" on that vocabulary claim. --LarryMac | Talk 21:10, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd like a citation for the "Brits have a larger vocabulary" bit as well. Dismas|^(talk) 21:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm an American, and while there is a British stereotype that Americans have a limited vocabulary (perhaps based on a certain American president), I have worked in the UK and the States as an editor and doubt that the stereotype is true. Marco polo (talk) 21:17, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd like a source on the existence of the stereotype. Algebraist 21:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I've certainly never come across that stereotype (well, I've come across the stereotype that Americans are generally less intelligent than other nationalities, I guess it could be a sub-stereotype of that [of course, I've come across the same stereotype for the Irish, the French, Belgians, people from rural areas, people from cities, etc.]). British English may well have a larger lexicon overall, due to the greater number of and variation between dialects, but I doubt there is much difference between individuals. --Tango (talk) 21:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

sorry, sorry; the people responsible for perpetuating that stereotype have been sacked. It is, in fact, llamas that have a larger vocabulary. --LarryMac | Talk 21:35, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, we knew that! --Tango (talk) 22:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• My favorite (favourite) is the British equivelant of voicemail - answerphone. Love it! Bikingshaun (talk) 21:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Ansaphone. Algebraist 21:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The essential difference is that our (British) English is right :p -mattbuck (Talk) 21:26, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed - English is the language spoken in England, anything else is wrong. :) --Tango (talk) 21:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Of course, strictly speaking, the language should have been renamed "American" at the end of World War II. But you know, all that paperwork, plus we were feeling generous. --Trovatore (talk) 22:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes, it would have had to have been the *end* of WWII, wouldn't it? ;) --Tango (talk) 22:58, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Note to Americans - stop claiming that you, personally, rescused Europe from the Nazis. It was 60 years ago, the rest of us have moved on. (I post this here as I reply elsewhere). -mattbuck (Talk) 01:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Who said anything about the Nazis? World War II was when we took over the world. --Trovatore (talk) 02:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly, mobile phones seem to always have voicemail, never an answerphone. I think answerphone really refers to the device, voicemail the function. --Tango (talk) 21:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, answering machine makes explicit a distinction related to that: that 'voicemail' involves a central server.

Interestingly, 'answerphone' is an example of a particular subclass of differences: words that are originally trade names, but used more generally only on one side of the Atlantic. (I knew that that 'answerphone' was derived from the trade name 'Ansaphone', but had supposed that this was a British company. However, from this it appears I was wrong). Others are 'Hoover' ('vacuum' to Americans) and 'Kleenex' ('tissue' to Britons - we recognise the name, but don't normally use it generically). --ColinFine (talk) 22:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Bandaid is in the same category as kleenex. Algebraist 22:57, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Then there's pavement vs. sidewalk vs. footpath. Just imagine if Freddie had sung "I have often walked down this street before, But the sidewalk/footpath always seemed to stay beneath my feet before ..". But apparently the Philadelphians knew what he was singing about. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's not that we don't have the word pavement. It just doesn't mean sidewalk. It means the stuff the sidewalk (or the street) is made out of. And that makes perfect sense in the context of the song. --Trovatore (talk) 23:54, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. The sidewalk article seems to suggest it is the U.S. version of pavement, from my reading. Maybe it's in need of elaboration. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

That is the case. However, the Americans also have a word 'pavement', which means something else, as Trovatore explained. Algebraist 02:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking about it, and there's a subtlety here that I can't quite pin down. The simple thing to say would be that a Commonwealth speaker can understand how an American hears the line by singing ...but the concrete always stayed beneath my feet before. But actually that's not quite right; that's too materials-oriented.

In the style of analogies tests, I would say that sidewalk:trail :: pavement:ground would be a good analogy. On the other hand sidewalk:trail :: pavement:dirt is not quite right. I can't put my finger on what exactly is the distinction. --Trovatore (talk) 20:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

...on the roadway, or on the pavements gray... sounds redundant to my ears. A better comparison might be 'dry land' vs. 'the waters'; the world is divided into that part which has been paved, and that part which is not (yet). Another use would be: 'a place for victims'; as in he was found face down on the pavement, often covered in blood. A paving material would be a distant third, and most would simply say asphalt.—eric 22:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The British seem to have sometimes taken the first popular brand name for 19th/20th century inventions as the descriptive noun: Gramophone, Hoover. It reminds me of old folks in rural areas who called a refrigerator a "Frigidaire." Edison (talk) 00:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

My personal favorite (favourite?) comparison is this: If a man says, "I'm mad about my flat," in the U.K. he is saying that he likes his apartment, while in the U.S. he is angry about a punctured tire (tyre?). — Michael J 01:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I have but one more comment: Ghoti. -mattbuck (Talk) 01:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

How is that relevant to the American/English dichotomy specifically? Algebraist 02:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

He wants us to explain that 'Ghoti' spells 'Fish':

• GH as in enouGH
• O as in wOmen
• TI as in staTIon.

But that's the same in both dialects of English. SteveBaker (talk) 15:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I knew that. Even if I didn't, we have an article. What I don't know is how ghoti is relevant to the matter at hand. Algebraist 15:41, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't see the link between that and American vs. British English, but some fish does sound good right now. I could really go for some baked salmon. Useight (talk) 02:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Vikram (you remember him? the person who asked a question?), you mention training people to respond to customers from the U.S. and from the U.K. I know something about the training field, and I'm going to guess you're not in either country for the sake of this response. Tell your staff not to try and be what they're not. A native of either of these countries, in another part of his own country, will give himself away by accent or by figure of speech or some other regional anchor. Americans who grew up in the midwest hear "have a catch" when the poor fool clearly meant to say "play catch." New Yorkers queue up by waiting on line, and think it's a peculiarity that the rest of the country waits in line.

It does make sense to know relevant differences, though "relevance" depends on your products and your customers. (UK visitors must be shocked when they get biscuits here.) Concentrate on the big picture and on solving customer's problems, and no one will care if you don't use English in the same way as the children back in/on the street where you were born. And remember, that fop Freddie grew up to be Sherlock Holmes. --- OtherDave (talk) 04:27, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, and in real life Jeremy Brett was married but had sex with other men. Not that there's anything wrong with that (apart from the adultery issue), but if Freddie had done it, I'm sure Eliza Eynsford-Hill née Dolittle would have been most unimpressed. Maybe that's why he had difficulty in "showing her" his feelings, and could only talk about them.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 23:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The difference between American and British English: The British invented the language, the Americans perfected it. You may now return to your regularly scheduled jingoist debate. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

You'll have perfected it when you stop forgetting the letter "u". -mattbuck (Talk) 12:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

When you think about lift vs elevator it's hard to decide which dialect got it right as they both make sense. When you think about hood vs bonnet in the context of the engine compartment of a car, it's hard to decide for the opposite reason in that neither dialect makes any sense at all. The same applies really to the old color vs colour - if you're really going by how the ending is pronounced, it's probably the O that needed dropping, so unless someone spells it colur we're back in the land of "everybody's wrong!". :D ~ mazca ^t|c 12:53, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

How about colə? Why spell a schwa using a couple of hundred different combinations of vowels and consonants when we can just write 'ə' and be done with it? --Tango (talk) 13:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Careful, some dialects pronounce the r. Algebraist 15:41, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, damn, I forgot about the rhotics... There's just no end to how wrong people can be, is there? --Tango (talk) 15:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Some of us pronounce -r- as -w-. DuncanHill (talk) 15:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Even at the end of a word? --Tango (talk) 16:05, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, something like Grrrr I would :) DuncanHill (talk) 16:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Let us not forget that English was not standardized until after the American Revolution (up to that point, it could be "color" or "colour", standardized or standardised, etc), and that glamour is more common in the US than in the UK, where you are more likely to see glamor... Also, English is the dirty back-alley whore of languages and in fact is mostly made up of stuff stolen from other languages, not to mention the fact that it is a decendent of Germanic languages. Ergo, the creation of English would not be possible had the Brits not taken it upon themselves to modify a language which was not originally theirs. :P --69.146.230.243 (talk) 21:05, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Glamour is British English - have never seen glamor in British use. DuncanHill (talk) 21:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

No, glamor is not common anywhere. It doesn't fall into the same category as words like honor, color, labor, which are all Latin words that the Brits semi-Gallicized, back when they thought the French were cool, and which the Americans took back to their roots. But glamour was never Latin. It was, IIRC, a Scots word, cognate to grammar, and meaning something like magic spell (of course, you won't have much luck casting magic spells if you do them ungrammatically). --Trovatore (talk) 21:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Chambers Dictionary has glamour, but glamor for the US spelling. It actually derives from the Middle English word grammery, skill in grammar, hence magic. DuncanHill (talk) 21:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I wanted to say the dictionary is wrong, but on reflection it depends. If it's saying that glamor exists as a US variant, I suppose that's probably true. However, by a large margin, it is not the preferred spelling in the States. This is my impression, at least; I don't really know how to check it.

It also occurred to me that there are some -or versus -our words that don't fit the model I described. Honor, color, labor, odor, and tumor all fit that model, but neighbor and behavior do not (neither is a Latin word, nor has a French cognate, and for that matter I don't know a French cognate for labor though surely there must be one). So they must have come along for the ride, so to speak, and it wouldn't have been unreasonable for the same thing to happen to glamour. But for the most part it didn't. --Trovatore (talk) 04:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Chambers simply says "in U.S. glamor" - the same as it does for honor and labor. It would be interesting to know what an American Dictionary on historical lines said. As for labour - it derives from the Old French labour, labeur, ultimately from the Latin labor. Neighbour is from the Old English neahgebur - from neah meaning near and gebur meaning farmer. Behaviour is formed from behave, and derives from the prefix be and the word have - one of the earliest meanings of behave is to bear, or carry. I think the transition from that meaning to a sense of holding or carrying oneself well is fairly straightforward. DuncanHill (talk) 11:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

My 2000 edition American Random House says "glamour or glamor," but "glamorize or glamourize" and "glamorous or glamourous." That's in keeping with my experience; "glamour" is a common American spelling but "glamourous" looks completely alien to me. --Fullobeans (talk) 17:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't remember exactly where I read that, but I do distinctly recall it being said that glamor is more common in the UK, and I have never once seen it used in the states... But regardless, it's still a word which contains a u after an o that is commonplace in the US, and you're all ignoring the point I was trying to make anyway: we didn't "change" the language, we simply standardized variations of it that already existed, and the Brits did likewise. We just so happened to standardize different variations. We didn't mess up the language any more than it already was, and it's really, really irritating when people get all huffy about it and complain about how Americans have ruined English. Augh. --69.146.230.243 (talk) 02:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The French cognate of labour is labourer, to plough (or to plow, coincidentally taking us back to a different US/UK variation). Itsmejudith (talk) 09:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I should have come up with that. Margot, labourez les vignes, vignes, vignes, vignolets//Margot, labourez les vignes bientôt. --Trovatore (talk) 20:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Shoes

Do women's shoes tend to last longer than men's? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.100.123.154 (talk) 21:34, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

A totally uniformed opinion: I imagine that equivalent styles are made to an equivalent standard. There is a stereotype / perceived impression that women have more shoes than men and thus wear each pair less often than a man does, so equivalent styles would last much longer. On the other hand "fashionable" shoes may be designed for prettiness rather than strength and thus may not last as long - and a fashionable lady may only want to wear them a small number of times. Thus I think your question is too imprecise to answer categorically. -- SGBailey (talk) 21:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I think it's very variable. In my experience, women often buy cheap shoes on an impulse as they walk past the shoe shop, they where them out for one night and the heel breaks off. If a woman buys good quality shoes, though, I expect they last just as long as good quality men's shoes. --Tango (talk) 00:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Might it have something to do with the number of pairs owned by women compared to men and thus the consequent lower use of any one pair of shoes thus giving the impression that women's shoes last longer. Richard Avery (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I assume it is, yeah. My shoes don't last long chronologically even though I wear them until they're falling apart and look like pieces of dead whale: because I only tend to own two pairs of shoes at any given time. So the shoes actually rack up an awful lot of mileage in a short amount of time. ~ mazca ^t|c 14:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

December 6

Marriage

Oh my god, I love my girlfriend!!!!!

What is the best way to tell her that I want to be with her forever? Account only to be able to create redirects while drunk (talk) 00:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, a ring comes to mind. You know, the ones that signify to the world your intention to commit to her by the formal ceremony you link in your post here. You could also actually say something to her like "Oh my god, I love [you]... I want to be with [you] forever."--71.247.123.9 (talk) 01:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

You could slip off the condom, knock her up, and then say "Now your stuck with me FOREVER! YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE ME. MUHAHAHAHA". Or, you know, you can get a ring and take her out for a nice dinner and propose marriage and that sort of thing. Whatever works better for you. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion: not on Facebook, MySpace, or Wikipedia. --- OtherDave (talk) 04:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Yahoo! Answers would be perfect. --Fullobeans (talk) 06:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Also make sure your not creating redirects when you make the decision (and pop the question) Nil Einne (talk) 11:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

After all this excellent advice I would humbly suggest you check her feelings and commitment before bombing in at the deep end. Richard Avery (talk) 13:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Alfred Hitchcock Mystery magazine

Some 20 years ago,I remember seeing an Indian edition of the Alfred Hitchcock Mystery magazine being sold at Indian railway stations. I tried to find out whether it is still being published or if not, about its fate. I tried googling , with no success. Can anyone help me on this? sumal (talk) 04:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Our article Alfred Hitchcock's Mystery Magazine lists the publisher and the website for the magazine - but that's probably not the Indian edition. However, there is a "Contact Us" and "Customer service" link there with email addresses - so if I were you, I'd email them and ask. The US edition certainly seems to be in print and thriving. According to their site, they accept both US and overseas subscriptions - so you could certainly obtain it anywhere in the world via mail. SteveBaker (talk) 15:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I have already written them following your advice. Thanks a million!! sumal (talk) 10:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

holding pages together through history

How old are three-ring binders? I was surprised to see Artemus Gordon use one in "The Night of the Falcon". —Tamfang (talk) 06:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

According to the Wikipedia article, a patent for a ring binder was issued in Germany in 1886. --Fullobeans (talk) 08:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Off by about a decade, then (it's well established that Ulysses Grant is President at the time of the series). Thanks. —Tamfang (talk) 08:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Why do many free-market conservatives oppose free markets in housing and land use?

That is, why do many of them support exclusionary zoning and NIMBY policies? Even Thomas Sowell, in Markets and Minorities, has noted the upward redistributive effect of such regulations. I thought free-market conservatives oppose redistribution, so I don't understand why they would support it in these areas.

Whom have you in mind, and what's your reason for using the "free-market" label? Republicans may like to paint themselves as defenders of free markets, but for the most part such a claim is either hypocritical or clueless. — I'm curious about "even Thomas Sowell"; do you see him as less of a free-marketer than most conservatives, or what? — It's hard to say which is scarcer in politics: putting principle before interest, or willingness to follow a chain of consequences beyond the first step. To get to the point: Most people who advocate the policies you mention, if they consider anything beyond the immediate effect on themselves, probably see them as preservation rather than redistribution. —Tamfang (talk) 07:13, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Duchin Silver

I have a pair of sterling silver candlesticks with the name Duchin - weighted on the underside. They belonged to my grandmother and I would like some information on the company that made them. I have googled and all I find is eBay to buy or Peter/Eddy Duchin the musicians.

Thank you for any information you can provide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.248.53.172 (talk) 07:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Using Google is an art...try searching for Duchin silver candlestick - I got close to a thousand appropriate-looking hits. Lots of the hits are auction sites - but you've got to expect that - people don't often write web pages about particular kinds of candlesticks unless they are trying to sell them to you! So search for Duchin silver candlestick -auction -ebay - the minus signs mean "NOT" - so that finds sites that are not auctions or ebay - and you still get 270-ish hits. Good luck! SteveBaker (talk) 15:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Euthanasia in Andalusia

How legal is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.177.41.94 (talk) 13:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Not at all legal in my recent experience. There is still much Catholic Church influence in many of Spain's socio/criminal laws and this is a good example 86.4.188.125 (talk) 13:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

At the movies with The Fat Man Who Never Came Back

In the hopes of nabbing an Oscar nomination, studios release a good number of serious and high-quality movies at the end of the year. The Fat Man enjoys these sorts of movies, and his tastes tend toward the dark and gritty. In December of 2007, he enjoyed There Will Be Blood and Eastern Promises and, to a slightly lesser extent, Control and No Country for Old Men. However, this year, the Fat Man has not left his apartment except to go buy cheese and more alcohol and is unaware of what movies might be out there at this time. Besides the typically dark/sweeping film noir stuff, he also enjoys very small, intimate movies about adolescence/family drama, etc. (for example, this year's The Wackness was excellent). Over-the-top dark comedies are nice too. Recommendations please?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 15:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

We seem to have compatible tastes but it has been a terrible couple of year for movies looking at the big picture. So much retread and unwillingness to bet on anything but lowest common denominator formula (which includes The Dark Knight, though I know 99% of humanity disagrees with me). The best I can think of within your parameters of recent times is Tell No One (though a foreign film) on the dark and gritty front, Hot Fuzz and Burn After Reading on the comedy front, and The Squid and the Whale on the intimate adolescence/family drama front. You asked about recent films, but given your tastes, have you ever seen Blood Simple? (in my opinion, the greatest example of gritty noir ever). I would also recommend Miller's crossing from the same directors.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I've seen all Coen Brothers films, most of them many times, with the exception their last one (which you mentioned above)--was it any good? Keep in mind that right now I am only asking about 2008 films I could go see in a theater (though if, as you suggest, there are simply no good movies out there, I'll have to accept that). Your have offered some good Netflix recommendations, but that's a different question entirely.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 17:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Tell No One was released in the US in 2008 and is still playing near me, though I am in NYC, which offers a moviegoing selection many other locations do not. I have not seen a great deal of what is playing right now, so following your clarifiction that it must be in theaters now, I have little to offer. Everyone's raving about Slumdog Millionaire though. Burn after Reading was quite enjoyable but not anywhere in the league of, for example, The Big Lewbowski. Sorry for the general irrelevance of my post.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't irrelevant; I've been meaning to see The Squid and the Whale for some years now and have now added it to my Netlfix queue, thanks to you. I need to read a couple reviews of Tell No One and Burn After Reading; they might be up my alley. Nothing in this world will ever the surpass The Big Lebowski, so I have no such expectations. My favorite lesser-appreciated Coen Brothers offerings are Barton Fink (love the surreal/nightmarish quality and the writer's block angle) and The Man Who Wasn't There (gorgeous, mundane and tragic).

Back to the topic at hand, If anyone knows anything about recent Oscar-worthy releases, please weigh in.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 17:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Milk (film) is in theaters. Not a lot of blood, but I hear you can see Sean Penn's donger. My town is too small for a film about an openly gay man to be shown here. The local gentry shall have none of that kind of controversy because the simple folk are not able to handle entertaining depictions of people who are different than they. I have to wait 2 more weeks I think. Roger Ebert gave the film 4 stars. If you see it, read my 2-month endeavor. --Moni3 (talk) 17:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

That sounds like a very good idea; I love Sean Penn (the actor; not the surly RL know-it-all--was that a BLP violation?). As someone who grew up in a backwater wasteland, I sympathize with your having to wait many, many months before seeing a film of any redeeming quality. It's far too easy for city slickers like Fuhgettaboutit and me to take these luxuries for granted; since I have the world at my fingertips, I figure I should leave the apartment every now and then (even though it costs eleven bloody dollars for a ticket these days).--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 17:58, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

And as usual, beautiful work on the Featured Article, Moni3.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 17:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm also an admirer of The Man Who Wasn't There—another reason I'm glad I supported you for ArbCom. Unfortunately, I, like you, very rarely make it to the cinema these days, so I have no recommendations whatever for you. Deor (talk) 22:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not exactly in the line you mentioned, but I'm really looking forward to seeing the current release Synecdoche, New York, which is directed by Charlie Kaufman, who wrote my favorite-movie-ever, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. --Sean 23:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm a big Charlie Kaufman fan; that one is going at the top of my list.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Let us not forget Australia (2008 film), Frost/Nixon (film), Doubt (film), Seven Pounds, The Wrestler (2008 film), and Revolutionary Road (film) . Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 04:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Please add Wanted to the list of movies worth seeing this year, I'd also recommend American Gangster although our article says it's a 2007 film. Apart from this I'd also say that in recent years nothing special was to be seen - with the exception of (IMHO that is) Crash. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow, those all sound promising (I especially like the idea of a tragic story of a professional wrestler, treated seriously); I wasn't even aware of most of those films. Also, during Milk, which I saw yesterday at Moni3's recommendation, I saw a preview of Sunshine Cleaning, which intrigues.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

May I recommend Let the Right One In —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.250.62 (talk) 09:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree on Let the Right One In. Very interesting. Vancouver dreaming (talk) 15:11, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

After re-reading the OPs question, I'm putting forward... Let Them Chirp Awhile, Adoration and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.250.62 (talk) 20:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Fur coat terminology

Is there a special term for the kind of fur coat which has the heads(and sometimes the paws) of one or more animals still attached to the collar? 69.224.113.5 (talk) 17:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

"Fur protestor baiting coat"? ~ mazca ^t|c 18:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I think the term is "full pelt". Marco polo (talk) 03:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

If the article Pelage is more than live animals, perhaps the distinction can be included there. Julia Rossi (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

How about "Trophy coat" ? DOR (HK) (talk) 09:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Food stamps a hurdle to unemployment compensation

If i were to be approved for food stamp benefits after already getting unemployment would i no longer be eligible for UC. What i want to know is if i have to report any food stamp funds when filing UC claims. This relates to the SNAP federal food stamp program.--logger (talk) 22:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

We are not able or qualified to provide legal advice, but my understanding is that your eligibility for unemployment compensation in the United States is not affected by other benefits or sources of income such as food stamps. As I understand it (and I may be wrong, so you might want to check with a professional, such as a social worker), your eligibility for unemployment depends only on whether you were laid off or fired for a reason (you get benefits only if you were laid off), and the conditions of your employment (how many months you worked for your employer, how many hours you worked per week). The exact eligibility conditions, I think, vary from state to state. You might do a Google search on the terms "unemployment compensation eligibility <name_of_your_state>", e.g. "unemployment compensation eligibility California". Marco polo (talk) 23:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I found what i was looking for in my state UC is considered unearned income when determining eligibility for food stamps.--logger (talk) 23:46, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Point of information: Earned income is given a preference in food stamp calculations. For example, in my state (not sure whether there is a uniform national standard), only 80 percent of earned income is counted when calculating food stamp benefits. Also, disabled individuals are allowed to count medical expenses (thereby effectively reducing their income counted for food stamps)```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomerpdx (talk • contribs) 00:14, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Unemployment compensation may indeed affect eligibility for food stamps. I thought that the question was whether getting food stamps affected eligibility for unemployment compensation, which I'm fairly sure it doesn't. The scenario Logger gave was that food stamp benefits were approved after getting unemployment comp. So obviously the unemployment comp did not disqualify this person for food stamps. Nor should food stamps affect eligibility for unemployment comp, since food stamps are not employment. Marco polo (talk) 03:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I just want to be sure that getting food stamps will not stop me from being eligible for UC. I decided to go for food stamps after being determined eligible for UC.--logger (talk) 05:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

December 7

micronation thingies

1. What would be the appropriate way to declare that one has just created a micronation?

2. What are the requirements (are there any?) to be on list of micronations?

3. What is the appropriate way to declare war on someone? I am having a land claim dispute over the southern hemisphere of Pluto and all the lands within a 100 yard radius of the south pole of Mercury, and would like to be able to not only declare a war, but also to do it right. and...

4. Do most people know what a flame war is? Because I don't want to have to define it in my war declaration... flaminglawyer^cneverforget 00:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

You may find Constitutive theory of statehood and Declarative theory of statehood worth reading. The requirement to be on our list of micronations is to be recognised as such (not necessary legally valid as such, though) by reliable sources (newspapers, say). This may help you with point 3 (you won't be a signatory to the Hague Convention of 1907, but it's a good guideline anyway). As for part 4, that would depend on who your intended audience is. You may also want to read Extraterrestrial real estate if you haven't already. --Tango (talk) 00:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

As for 3) - when I was at Grey College, the JCR declared war on Switzerland by passing a motion. I forget how exactly we told the Swiss about this, but as I recall one of the JCR officers was himself somewhat Swiss, so that probably sufficed. DuncanHill (talk) 01:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

As for the link to extraterrestrial real estate, I have not signed the UN's Outer Space Treaty, so their control over my ownership of a planet is therefore disputable. flaminglawyer^cneverforget 05:18, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

So you seriously believe that a treaty doesn't apply to you if you haven't personally signed up to it? Hmmm...well, good luck with that. It doesn't matter a damn whether YOU signed the treaty - what matters is whether the people you'd like to recognise your state signed up to it...the other nations of the solar system for example. Do you seriously believe that your claims will be worth ANYTHING at all if it came to any point when it actually mattered? At any rate - by the very definition of the word, you can't have a 'nation' (micro or otherwise) unless someone lives there - check out the definition of 'nation' in Wiktionary - and sovereignty. So unless you have people who are loyal to you living in these bizarre places - you don't have a nation - so your question is entirely moot. By all means treat what you're doing as a fun game between people with a shared interest in planets (or whatever) - but please don't delude yourself into thinking that it actually MEANS anything. SteveBaker (talk) 06:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

You need to have a population and you need to have territory, I'm not sure the population needs to live in the territory (it probably depends on your exact definition). Of course, a claim on land you have never even visited is never going to be recognised by anyone that matters. --Tango (talk) 13:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Somewhere on the article micronation, it says something about them being "not real nations but more like hobbies." That's what I'm doing. I'm not trying to get any nations to recognize me, or anything spiffy like that. It's just a hobby. And yes, I seriously believe that the UN treaty doesn't apply to me (not that it matters; note that I will in no way be able to enforce these land claims). And, for Tango, I have a population of 8 (not including non-humans) and territory measuring about 6 ft². flaminglawyer^cneverforget 21:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

So what do you want to actually achieve? If it's just a bit of fun, it doesn't matter how you do it. If you want to get a certain degree of fame out of it (and get on our list) then you need to do something interesting enough to get journalists to write about you. All the basic stuff has been done before, you need to come up with something new. --Tango (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

 Done OK, I'll stick a done tag on it and say it's done. Get ready to see something crazy done my new little nation. :) flaminglawyer^cneverforget 00:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

LOL, so someone could just unnoficially declare a country and automaticly it's notable? :-) ~AH1^(TCU) 00:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Anyone can declare a country, it doesn't necessarily mean it counts for anything! If other people start to notice it and it gets mentioned in press, yep, it could become notable. For example Kingdom of Lovely, which was started by Danny Wallace on his tv show How to Start Your Own Country (TV series), Something I really enjoyed watching!-- WORMMЯOW  10:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

what is a Freeman-on-the-land

I've heard this word somewhere, i dont remember where and i want to know what is? Exdeathbr (talk) 03:37, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't mean this to be rude, but if you are internet savvy enough to post here, then I can't imagine why you didn't just plug the expression into Google to get your answer. A bounty of links to explore come up immediately, such as this explanatory one on the first results page. A 2-second search here also comes up with Beneficiary (trust)--71.247.123.9 (talk) 03:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Help improve Wikipedia

There are multiple sources showing that Ibyuk, located in the Pingo National Landmark, is the worlds second-tallest pingo and this is just one. What and where is the worlds tallest? I can't seem to find anything to indicate it. Of couse the answer will be added to the articles so it will actually improve Wikipedia. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 05:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Damn Canadians—they'll tell you that theirs is the second tallest but won't give the tallest one of all any publicity, eh? My Googling is, like yours, coming up empty on this; but there's at least one source—the 2003 Guinness World Records—that says that Ibyuk is the "largest" pingo in the world. The snippet view on Google Books doesn't allow one to determine what, if any, distinction between largest and tallest they're making, though. The Science Desk may be a better forum for this query; I, at least, have nothing better to offer you. Deor (talk) 06:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I noticed that several hits said it was the largest but there does appear to be a difference between that and the tallest. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

My google-fu is better this morning:

Pingo 18 (Ibyuk Pingo), whose summit rises about 49 m above the surrounding drained lake flat (Fig. 56), is the highest known pingo in Canada. The world's highest known pingo is Kadleroshilik Pingo which is 40 km southeast of Prudhoe Bay, Alaska. Its height, as given on a 1975 topographic map (Beechy Point (A-2), Alaska, scale 1: 63,360), is about 54 m above the adjacent lake plain or about 5 m higher than Ibyuk Pingo.

—J. Ross Mackay, "Pingo Growth and Collapse, Tuktoyaktuk Peninsula Area, Western Arctic Coast, Canada: A Long-Term Field Study," Géographie physique et Quaternaire 52.3 (1998).[4]

The Google cache version I've linked to above doesn't show the journal's page numbers, but the search results page indicates that the passage appears on page 311 of the issue cited. Deor (talk) 13:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Addendum: I couldn't get the PDF version of the article to load earlier, but here it is if you want it. (Its pagination doesn't match that of the journal appearance; the passage I've quoted can be found on page 41.) Deor (talk) 14:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks. I'd been through the google search several times but had never been able to come across the name before. I had assumed that due to the overwhelming results of Ibyuk that the highest would turn out to be some un-named pingo in Siberia. It's interesting that it is a place that is relatively accessible. Interesting what marketing will do. Though I suspect that it has more to do with the number of pingos available at the landmark. I grabbed the pdf and will read it properly later. I had a quick look and I'm hoping it gives some idea of the actual growth rate. Again the Ibyuk one is the only sourced pingo with a give growth rate. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 22:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Has Wikipedia spread the sum of human knowledge?

Just a thought that occurred whilst browsing Wikipedia - has the relatively recent availability of knowledge-based-sites such as Wikipedia helped to spread, and thus increase, the sum of human knowledge; or have they merely diverted knowledge seekers away from other information sources such as libraries, encyclopaedias etc? I suppose what I am really asking is whether the sum of human knowledge is much the same as pre-internet, but more widely spread and readily available? 92.23.209.233 (talk) 13:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

What does "the sum of human knowledge" means? If last year 10,000 people could correctly say whether the miner's museum in my home town was previously a railroad station, and this year 12,000 can? Or, if last year I knew 50,000 facts and Fred knew one, and this year's totals are 100,000 for me and 1 for Fred, has the sum of Dave/Fred knowledge doubled -- and if so, so what?

Being listed in Wikipedia doesn't make something factual, let alone widely known. Such listing could increase access to that information, on the assumption that more people can reach Wikipedia than could find the same information at a library or in a print encyclopedia. That access, and tools to increase the power of that access (through filters, tags, correlation, and so on) are probably the most significant contribution of the internet to human knowledge. --- OtherDave (talk) 14:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it's hard to quantify knowledge. But when you think about the time it takes to get to the library, look up a particular topic, find the appropriate books, and browse through those books to see if they contain the information you're looking for, and then you think about the number of Wikipedia articles you could have read in that time... well, it's impossible to deny that the internet, and especially knowledge-based sites like Wikipedia, have made general information more readily available. Moreover, Wikipedia doesn't replace libraries any more than print encyclopedias replace libraries. But it does offer immediate answers to casual inquiries, which is something that cannot be said for libraries (or encyclopedias, unless you have the privilege of owning one). I'm constantly running to the computer to look up things I'm idly curious about; ten years ago, was I constantly running to the library? Heck no. And that's despite having flexible work hours and a library a mile from my house, which are two things most people cannot boast. So I guess my answer to your question is this (and this is entirely supposition): Wikipedia has made college students more lazy. College students typically have extraordinary access to print information and online catalogues which most of us do not, and they are probably, yes, availing themselves less of those resources. College students are also, however, a relatively small subset of the population. For the majority of the internet-using public (primary and secondary school students, working non-academics, computer-savvy seniors, etc), general information is now empirically accessible on request in a way that it previously, quite simply, wasn't. Are we all availing ourselves of these resources? Probably not. But information is something that spreads virally, so even if only a smattering of people in a given community regularly obtain and retain accurate information from the internet, much of that community will then be able to access that information interpersonally and to perpetuate it in other ways. But there's misinformation in there too, and plenty of other factors which make a cut-and-dry answer to your question impossible. So: have we increased the sum of human knowledge? Who knows. But I do think we've made widespread ignorance less excusable. --Fullobeans (talk) 17:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• I am of the opinion that Wikipedia has helped spread knowledge, but there's still a long way to go. For a start people still need to learn what makes information and sources reliable and how to search for information in libraries, papers, journals and encyclopedias when the internet doesn't have it stored somewhere accesible. A lot of people still believe everything they read and give up if they can't google something. - 87.211.75.45 (talk) 16:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

One of the things that Wikipedia should be thanked for is the ability to collect a lot of disparate information about a subect in a way that enables a bigger picture to be built up, and to make it available to the world immediately. There are many examples of this, but take one I have been recently hard at work on. I came across a reference to a man named Werner Reinhart while researching another topic. The name meant nothing to me, and we had no article on him, but I had reason to put him on my "Names to Research" list. I found there is a French biography of him, but nothing in German (he was Swiss) or English. But there are all sorts of snippets about him if you look hard enough, and all it takes is someone with sufficient interest and time to hunt them down and write a coherent article about him. Although virtually unknown nowadays, Reinhart was still very notable by our standards, and his influence on many important 20th century cultural figures should not be forgotten. Without the internet, I would almost certainly never have come across his name at all, or if I had, it would have taken me literally years to find what I've been able to find about him in just a few days. But having gathered all this information, what would I have done with it if Wikipedia did not exist? Who would I tell? If I were connected to the academic world, it might have found its way into some learned journal, but even then, those without subscriptions would have been denied this knowledge. Thanks to Wikipedia, I don't have to worry about who may or may not be interested in this guy. Those who see the links I've created in other articles will, if they're interested enough, click on them and learn about this significant cultural figure. And who knows, this may spark more research and a resurgence of interest in him. It's early days, but I'm sure, in time, others will add to the miserable stub I've created. To me, this process is definitely about adding to the sum of human knowledge. The "net sum" view (verifiable information minus misinformation = net sum) may have some validity, but creating verifiable information is always a worthwhile thing to do. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

People read Wikipedia - they occasionally learn something - obviously, if Wikipedia didn't exist, they might look up (and find) the knowledge someplace else - but there must be cases where people look things up ONLY because it's so convenient. So I think it's safe to say that the knowledge humanity has is certainly spread over more people because of Wikipedia.

However, the sum total of things that humans as a species know is not increased by Wikipedia (or at least it's not supposed to be). We work hard to only include knowledge that has been reported in other places. I suppose we might retain knowledge that otherwise might have been forgotten - so perhaps in that regard we increase the total amount of knowledge that's RETAINED at any given time - but even that is unlikely because it would require that somehow all of the documents we cite as references were somehow destroyed as well as all human memory of the fact. In such cases, it's debatable whether we'd keep the fact anyway. Since the reference(s) are no longer checkable - we have no way to know that the fact was ever real - so we might well delete the last remaining note about the fact and destroy some human knowledge. But that's a bit of a stretch. SteveBaker (talk) 04:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Sliced bread

One used to have a choice between thin-, medium-, and thick- sliced bread. Nowadays, alas, one is denied the thin option. Why is this? DuncanHill (talk) 16:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• I'm assuming you're referring to US bakeries? In the Netherlands, you get just one choice, the setting on the slicing machine. -- 87.211.75.45 (talk) 16:56, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, should have been specific - I meant grocers' and supermarkets in Britain. DuncanHill (talk) 17:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I can't say I've noticed (I normally buy medium), but if it has happened it will be because there weren't enough people buying thin cut bread (perhaps because it falls apart too easily). --Tango (talk) 17:09, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

An interesting question this : I like Asda's wholegrain bread but it comes unsliced though they will, if you ask, unwrap it and slice it on their single thickness slicing machine before re-wrapping it for you. The best medium thickness sliced loaf has surely got to be the Co-op's Granary Loaf - and a second runner-up has got to be Morrison's wholemeal granary loaf though it does tend towards being very small. 92.23.209.233 (talk) 17:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In Australia, pre-wrapped sliced bread comes in 2 thicknesses: "toast" is a little thicker than "sandwich". Not every brand has both, but if you're looking for one or the other thickness, there are plenty of options to choose from. Thanks for the opportunity to use the word "thicknesses", which is, I believe, a first for me. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Jack, have you found "café thickness" for fruit infused bread? A slice is about the thickness of a 300+-page book.

No, I can't say I've ever seen that precise term on a packet of bread, but the fruit bread/raisin bread etc is almost always of the more thickly sliced variety. Maybe I've seen "café style" or something like that. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In the US bread is almost always pre-sliced, and they don't specify the thickness of the slices on the package. It seems to me they are all similar thicknesses, with the exception of "diet bread", which is sliced thinner. StuRat (talk) 00:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was confused when I saw this thread since I’ve never heard of such a thing. --S.dedalus (talk) 01:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In the U.S., Pepperidge Farm does offer a line of thin-sliced breads, but generally most pre-sliced bread is all roughly the same thickness. Of course, if you go to the bakery at the grocery store yourself, they will slice an unsliced loaf to any thickness you request... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

For the record, in NZ most bakeries can slice to preferred thickness, and pre-sliced packaged bread (from supermarkets etc) come in "toast" and "sandwich", with some brands offering "extra thick" or "extra thin". But the ultimate is Vogel's Original which comes in Toast, Sandwich, Very Thin, Long Cut and Unsliced. Ymmm.
But to get back to DuncanHill's question, it probably comes down to demand. Shops stock what people want. If no one wants thin sliced bread anymore, they don't stock it. Gwinva (talk) 03:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

See also Texas toast, sold in many U.S. stores. Edison (talk) 04:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah surrenduh. Yet anuther kahnd of thickness raised in Texas. someone had to do it *sigh* Julia Rossi (talk) 04:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas! SteveBaker (talk) 13:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In stores here is North Carolina, they sell "New York Brand Italian Texas Toast". If that doesn't make your head spin... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Eeyee! My head hurts. So the 'brand' is Brand and 'toast' is Toast?! SteveBaker (talk) 21:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In the US, you can buy "sandwich sliced" bread, which is thinner than the regular kind. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 00:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I noticed here that the breads seem to match StuRat's comment in that the diet breads are the thinest cut. The are at more than CAN$6.00 a loaf the most expensive. The medium cuts at CAN$3.00 a loaf are the cheapest. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

So when they say "half the calories of ordinary sliced bread" - what they actually mean is "half the bread of ordinary sliced bread"?! SteveBaker (talk) 13:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

That's right. A large percentage of "diet" products simply have smaller servings. Which can mean thinner slices, added water or air, or simply stating that there are more servings per package on the nutritional label. You can offer a chocolate bar with a 0.1 gram serving that has no fat, sugar, or calories, when you round down, of course. StuRat (talk) 17:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Seems they're on to the same strategy as the dietician Marjorie Dawes (Matt Lucas) in Little Britain, who came up with the wonderful idea that to halve your calorie intake, all you need to so is cut your portions in half; and then, because you're consuming so many fewer calories, you can eat twice as much food. I like that kind of logic. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

how to achieve this haircut

how can i do this

i need instructions

http://www.4hairstyles.com/mens/xshort/3.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.18.60.32 (talk) 20:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Go to a barbers/hairdressers and show them that picture and say "I want this". They will then cut your hair appropriately and show you how to gel/wax it (they'll probably even sell you (massively overpriced) gel/wax). --Tango (talk) 21:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

If you can't or don't want to go to a barber, just look closely at the picture: the sides are uniformly short (I'm sure the back is too), whereas the top is a few inches long. I'd say clipper the sides and back (assuming you have electric clippers) and trim the top with scissors until it's the right length (or, if your hair's really short, leave the top alone and let it grow out). You'll probably want to trim (with scissors) the "border" of the long part so that the long part fades into the short part instead of just stopping suddenly. And, most importantly, go down to the pharmacy and buy some styling products-- you want something with a name like "wax" or "putty", maybe one that imparts "gloss" or "shine". The guy in the picture also has some understated highlighting going on, but I wouldn't try that at home. Bad highlights can be more disastrous than a bad haircut. --Fullobeans (talk) 04:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

And just in case you're really, really new to this: cut your hair one small piece at a time, pausing frequently to check that the pieces are the same length. Don't cut too much off at once; you can always go back and trim more later. And it's possible to rig up a system of mirrors so you can see the back of your head, but it's easier just to have someone else do the back for you (or check that it looks ok once you're done). --Fullobeans (talk) 04:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

And finally, if you manage to show up in person in front of this very WP:reference desk for miscellaneous hirsute matters, we do have trained librarians of encyclopedic skills at your disposal who cut your hair, iron your knickers, defluff your belly button and tickle your armpits in the futile pursuit of providing greater knowledge for humankind. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Bikini waxing responsibilities have been transferred to the entertainment desk. --Fullobeans (talk) 04:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

what size of object can a tapir pick up with his nose?

what size of object can a tapir pick up with his nose? FireSkater (talk) 22:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In Tapir, the nose is used to grasp leaves. It's a herbivore, foraging for "fruit, berries, and leaves" as well as river plants, and depends on the nose to smell. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

We had this question just a few weeks ago. You might want to check the archives. SteveBaker (talk) 03:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

OK - August...not "a few weeks ago": Try this link. SteveBaker (talk) 03:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It appears that our OP is a sock puppet of the (indefinitely banned) user who asked the question last time around. You can run but you can't hide. <sigh> SteveBaker (talk) 17:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ditto

<moved, here you go[5]> Julia Rossi (talk) 00:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

You should ask this as the Entertainment desk. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

December 8

White Representatives representing majority-black districts in the US Congress

The article on Steve Cohen states that he is one of two such representatives currently in Congress, but does not list the other, nor does its reference. I wasn't able to find out who the other one is using Google, either - the closest I could find was Chris Bell, whose district became majority-black after Tom DeLay's infamous Texas redistricting, but he was defeated in the 2004 primary. Anyone know who the second Representative is? -Elmer Clark (talk) 02:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, this New York Times article seems to contradict the article's reference and claims that Cohen is the only such Representative. It could be that the reference and our article are just wrong. If no one comes up with a second Representative, I'll bring this up on the talk page. -Elmer Clark (talk) 02:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It may be true if you consider strictly majority black districts, of which there are VERY few. I did some mostly hunt-and-peck research using this map and this website. I found VERY few districts which were actually >50% black; many with sizable non-white population reported large (15-20%) "Other Race" data, making it unlikely to have ANY majority race in such districts. However, if we consider districts that are only a plurality black (that is, black is the largest single racial group, but not necessarily >50%) then José Serrano, a white Puerto Rican of New York's 16th congressional district, which has a 36% Black/20% White/34% Other breakdown, would qualify. There may be others like this. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I think it might be referring to Bob Brady, who represents Pennsylvania's 1st congressional district, which is 45.9% black (and 37.1% white), although that isn't quite a majority. This New York Beacon article (written before Cohen's election) calls Brady the "only...White representative of a majority Black District." Perhaps it was majority black at some point in the recent past. -Elmer Clark (talk) 06:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Music in Rolls Royce video

Can someone please tell me what is the music in this video with the matte black Rolls Royce Phantom? It sounds vaguely familiar to me. --Blue387 (talk) 06:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Some good music id-ers are at the Entertainment desk. Julia Rossi (talk) 06:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

bulb explodes?

I have experienced a few times that life of Incandescent light bulb ends when filament breaks typically while switching it on (it turns on for split second and then goes off). But this time, when I switched on this bulb, it exploded and I heard pieces of glass falling on ground. The circuit breaker tripped and all other lights went off, therefore I could not see whether the bulb fall down and then pieces spread around or they were thrown away due to explosion (around 5 to 6 feet away). The cap of the bulb was still there properly in the bulb holder. The bulb was in use for more than a year but generally only a few hours a week. The bulb was on ceiling, no water contact or any other physical damage. What are possible reasons for explosion of incandescent bulb? manya (talk) 06:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In some bulbs the filament is not straight; for example, it may be supported on a little stand in an arch shape. If such a filament breaks, the broken pieces may fall together so that they touch each other and make a short circuit within the bulb. The resistance is less than it would be with the normal filament, so it burns hotter and brighter (and sometimes you can hear it making a sound, too). It can get so hot it causes damage. The one time I saw it happen, it burned brightly and made a sound for a few seconds first, and then a chunk of filament blew out and made a hole in the bulb. But you can see that an even shorter circuit might make enough heat to explode the bulb before your breaker can trip. --Anonymous, 07:28 UTC, December 8, 2008.

(ec) Unfortunally the link just leads to the Philips site and asks me what language I want. If for example though you were using a Halogen lamp it's possible that you may have touched the glass at an earlier time which might cause it to explode. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

(slightly related) - I was once bored at a friends house and knocked his lightbulb with my knuckles, for some unknown (to me) reason the bulb got about twice as bright. It stayed that way from that point forward. Just to add - no it wasn't on a dimmer switch, just a standard on/off switch ceiling light bulb. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I've seen the same phenomenon before. At university, we'd take to swatting each other's lamps to achieve the effect. The bulb typically burned out rather quickly afterwards, sometimes on the order of hours or days, though some lasted out the semester. Matt Deres (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the inside of a light bulb is incredibly fragile compared to the outside. --Sean 13:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it's also possible that the glass had cracked or the seal at the base had failed and that air had leaked into the bulb. The filament burns up incredibly quickly in air...maybe fast enough to make the glass shatter. SteveBaker (talk) 13:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't discount the idea of leaking water, as it would explain both the bulb imploding (not exploding, since it's under a vacuum) and the short circuit that you seem to have experienced. Water from condensation (are you boiling water or using a humidifier ?) or leaking from the roof (caused perhaps by an ice dam) can make it's way along a floor/ceiling into a light fixture on the ceiling and cause just such problems. If it was only a drip or two, all evidence may have evaporated after the bulb imploded. One other comment, light fixtures do normally have a cover that goes over the bulb to prevent falling glass, they aren't just for collecting dead bugs. StuRat (talk) 16:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It's been a long time since light bulbs were evacuated. These days they are filled with some kind of inert gas. Argon, Neon or Nitrogen typically. So water could crack or even break the glass due to thermal shock - but that would not be either an explosion or an implosion (although it might appear to be so to the causal observer). SteveBaker (talk) 17:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I believe they do both. That is, the fill them with an inert gas then evacuate it. This way there is very little gas in it, and none of it is oxygen. StuRat (talk) 17:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

How strange, I now have a vision of various inert gasses looking out a train window as it pull out of a London station with Vera Lynn singing in the background. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 13:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you all. After reading your comments, now I think I know what happened. On previous day, I had switched it on and off for couple of times in few seconds, before finally switching it off. The bulb may have developed a crack then due to rapid changes in temperature, which later resulted in explosion. manya (talk) 04:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Testimonial: this happens in my home every so often (and for a dog owner, even once is too often ;-/ We've considered it to possibly be caused by power surges in our electrical supply, a known problem in our semirural area. Perhaps you have a similar situation? (This might better be asked on the Science Ref Desk.) Deborahjay (talk) 19:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Tungsten is used in modern incandescent bulbs. It is rather brittle. If you flick the bulb,the vibration might cause the filament to break. As Anonymous said, a broken tungsten filament, being a long coil, can vibrate around and the broken piece touch a part of the filament or a filament support and weld itself there, creating a shorter filament which draws more current and burns brighter. This could explain 194's observation. In the earliest days of tungsten filaments, it was common try and repair them this way to get longer life, by getting the broken ends to reattach. If the resistance is too low, or if a broken piece bridges a short space between the leadin wires near the base, it could amount to a short(er) circuit than the bulb can tolerate or the breaker can supply, resulting in a small explosion. Modern bulbs other than the smallest wattage ones are filled with inert gases to slightly below atmospheric pressure. If the nitrogen (argon, etc) leaked out and air leaked in, the heated tungsten might combust causing an explosion. Edison (talk) 07:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

jewish

i was looking for a book written by a german author about a country he has never step foot on..could it be hitler with the main kampf? please help cos i never got an actual answer from you gyus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.87.158 (talk) 08:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Our answer was: no, we didn't think that fitted. Mein Kampf is not about a country. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The archive is here[6]. Hitler's name came up often in that thread and he qualifies as an author even though that book was not about the country, he writes about the Jews and others; but Karl May got an airing too and Hitler read his stuff. For my money, it's still on Adam Bishop's offering since you'd have to be a deep trivialist to get the others. Just guessing, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that Sluzzelin's suggestion of Kafka was a good one—Amerika is a pretty famous example of an imaginative construction of a foreign setting that the author didn't have too much actual knowledge of. Whether K. qualifies as a "German author" is disputable, but he did write in German. Karl May is also a good suggestion, but the singular "a book" in the OP's question makes it unlikely that he is the writer the question's poser had in mind. The problem with the question is that it has a number of plausible answers. Deor (talk) 13:21, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I notice that you include other information this time around. The first time, you neither mentioned "Jewish" nor "German" directly, though you did give "relation to Hitler" as a clue. You also asked for "a book about a people", this time it's about a country. These might seem like petty details, but the exact wording of the question does make a difference. Is this a question you have in written form, or is someone (you or another person) trying to remember a book they once heard about? Giving us context and details might help us find your one answer among the many plausible ones, as pointed out by Deor. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:11, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

This really could be anything. Theodor Mommsen never stepped foot in ancient Rome, how about that? Adam Bishop (talk) 02:17, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Completely off-topic here, but I have to say this reminds me of one of Douglas Adams' great lines: The past is truly a foreign country. They do things exactly the same there. If you haven't read the book, don't bother trying to understand it :-). --Trovatore (talk) 02:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Aunt Millie's strategy

In the US there's a bread maker with an unusual strategy, they position a product to directly compete with just about every other product on the market. That is, they have products that look like Sara Lee and Pepperidge Farms breads as well a generic brands. Are there any other products that have used such an aggressive marketing strategy ? StuRat (talk) 17:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It is not addressed in the article, however Walgreens seems to have a store brand for many of the items they sell. For example, they have "Wal-zyr" as a Zyrtec equivalent, and Wal-adryl for Benadryl. Many of these are listed at their own site. --LarryMac | Talk 18:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Most store chains in Canada have the same kind of thing LarryMac describes; Zehrs markets have "President's Choice" brand everything, Sobey's has "Compliments" brand everything , etc. but I'm not sure that's what StuRat is talking about. Is Aunt Millie available at different stores, or is it a store brand as LarryMac and I described? TBH, what you describe doesn't seem that odd to me; a start-up soft drink company (for example) would have to make cola, clear, root beer, etc lines to compete with Coke/Pepsi and that just what the folks at RC Cola and the other companies do. I'm not familiar with Aunt Millie, but if I was starting a bread company, I'd certainly want to offer a full range of products, including those already made by competitors (if they make it, there's obviously some kind of market for it), though I get the feeling I've misunderstood the question. Matt Deres (talk) 19:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not looking very far - almost all large corporate chain stores over here have own brands of practically everything - Lidl, Tesco, Carrefour - though one should be wary not to choose those items, as they tend to be (very) low quality. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily. A lot of "own brand" products are made by the same manufacturers as "brand" products. Most supermarkets have three levels of quality - the "standard" range, the "luxury" range and the "budget" range - even the budget ranges can be perfectly acceptable quality. Exxolon (talk) 01:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly (though a little off-topic) in Canada, "President's Choice" products (Loblaw empire) are uniformly quite high-quality, just cheaper to buy. Franamax (talk) 21:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I think I know what StuRat means: purposely making your products look similar to your main competitors. Take the Sainsburys brand in the UK: compare dishwasher lqd with leading competitor's. Compare colours chosen for beetroot: [7] against [8] and spaghetti [9] vs. [10]. (Just three examples). Packaging isn't designed to create an unmistakeable "Sainsbury's brand", but to look similar to main competitor at first glance. Gwinva (talk) 21:57, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

@Franamax, problem with that (here in Australia anyway) is that when producers sell in bulk to the chain (for its own generic brand) for x amount which goes on to retail at 2x amount, they are forced to make up the discount they have accepted by selling their own branded product for 2x + amount, affecting their ability to compete, afaik. @ OP, I guess the brand mirroring is something to do with a "tailgating" marketing strategy, scooping up the benefits of brand-building from the forerunners, and gaining sales/exposure by association. Hardly seems legal and I wonder if it's too close, would it stand a legal challenge, or whether companies let it go to benefit from shared exposure. Julia Rossi (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, Aunt Millie's isn't a store brand. and, in any case, the store brands I've seen only imitate a small portion of the products out there. Generally they will have one store brand of bread, perhaps in white and wheat, for example, not imitate every competitor on the market, as Aunt Millie's does. The soft drink case would be another example. While Coke and Pepsi imitate each other, I don't believe they imitate all their smaller competitors, like Faygo Redpop. StuRat (talk) 01:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

repair clay tile roofs

How do I walk on a clay tile roof to make reairs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.25 (talk) 22:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Generally tradesmen use a "walking board / roof ladder" which is strong enough to support your weight and which itself is suported by the weight bearing parts of the roof - whichever they are - presumably the apex. They also often (always?) hook over the apex to stop them sliding. Whatever you do be very careful on a roof. If in doubt, don't. Consider employing a tradesman. -- SGBailey (talk) 23:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The trick is definitely to spread your weight across as many tiles as possible - a large thick board - or planks will do that. Crawl rather than walking to spread your weight out still further. But the problem is to avoid whatever you're walking on slipping down the roof and carrying you with it. It's pretty dangerous work. I've seen people do it with a pair of ladders. One stands against the edge of the roof from the ground and must be tied firmly to some part of the structure so it cannot move. (One way to do that is to place a scaffold-pole horizontally inside a window and to tie the ladder TIGHTLY to that.) A second ladder is laid flat onto the roof and it's lower end rests against (and is firmly tied to) the upper end of the first (which is why that first ladder has to be very firmly attached). That's enough to get you to some point on the roof (eg to replace a single tile or fix up your TV antenna) - but for serious jobs, you need to use proper scaffolding setups that give you a horizontal platform to work from. (Like this Image:Dachtreppe_Fanggerüst.JPG)...but this is exceedingly dangerous stuff and I don't recommend doing it unless you really know what you're doing (which you don't - or you wouldn't be asking us!) SteveBaker (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Steve, How the heck did you come up with that image just when you needed it to illustrate a point? -hydnjo talk 04:35, 9 December 2008

(UTC)

I typed 'scaffolding' into WikiCommons and looked at the gallery of pictures it produced in the hope that one of them would illustrate my point. Just as there are articles about EVERYTHING in Wikipedia (if you know how to search), so there are photos of EVERYTHING in WikiCommons...if you know how to search! SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

A wonderful image indeed. What I can't understand is why the small steps have been so carefully inserted under the tiles in a slightly uneven line when laying a ladder up the roof would have achieved a much better access. It looks more like an art installation than a serious roof access method. Richard Avery (talk) 08:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I've seen serious roofing people doing that. It allows you to stand upright on the roof and walk across the roof as though it was a staircase. If you are carrying heavy loads of replacement roof tile - or bricks for a chimney - a sloping ladder limits you to carrying just one or two bricks/tiles each trip. It's OK for a quick job - but for anything serious, you need something like the gadgets illustrated in the photo. SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

You may be able to use two cushions from a sofa. Remove the covers, using only the foam. You can use them like you would use snow shoes, only laying down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JelloTube (talk • contribs) 10:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

No! Cushions would just bend under your weight and apply 100% of your weight to a single tile - which would then break. You need something stiff to transfer your weight outwards - planks or a ladder or something like that. Depending on the age and quality of the tiles - you might need to spread your weight out over a dozen or more of them. I suppose snow shoes might work - but I wouldn't want to risk it! SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Snowshoes would be worse than cushions: on a hard surface, all your weight would be applied to the cleats or to the frame, depending on the design, and either would provide a greater load concentration than ordinary shoes. --Carnildo (talk) 23:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

December 9

usa elections 2008

please can you inform me about the percentage of youth ( less than 25 years old) that vote to President Obama —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.42.134.224 (talk) 00:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Since the US ballot is secret, that information is impossible to know. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 01:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

(Rolls eyes) Ever hear of an exit poll? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Exit polls give an *estimate* of how many people *claimed* to have voted for a particular person. That's pretty close to what the OP asked for, but it's not the same. --Tango (talk) 01:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

According to CNN's reportage of exit polling, 68% of voters under 25 voted for Obama, in comparison with only 30% for McCain. (I found this by just Googling for "obama exit poll age", for future reference in your investigations.) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

What is Christmas in France like?

traditions, religious events, gift-giving, etc?

AlexBriggs12 (talk) 01:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

You might start by taking a look at Wikipedia's brief description of Christmas in France. If you can read French, you might take a look at the French article on Christmas. If you can't, it seems some of the key elements of the French Christmas are the Midnight Mass celebrating the birth of Jesus, the construction of nativity scenes, the myth of Santa Claus (known in French as Père Noël, or Father Christmas), setting up of Christmas trees, giving of gifts, and a festive meal consisting of turkey and a bûche de Noël. Marco polo (talk) 01:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

There are a few subtle differences - but no greater than you see from one English-speaking family to another within (say) the USA. My wife is French and we have a mixed anglo-french celebration. As already mentioned, one must have a bûche (it's a rolled up sponge-cake with a thick buttery chocolate frosting - dressed up to look kinda like a log). Gotta have a Galette des Rois also. But we also have a christmas pudding from the UK tradition (complete with sixpences, carefully hoarded since pre-decimalized currency in the UK). I'd say we pretty much do what most other people do. But all in all - I see much bigger differences between the way Xmas is celebrated between the USA and the UK than between either of them and France. SteveBaker (talk) 02:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I live deep in the Midi (on the south coast of France) and down here Christmas used to be celebrated with a huge log (the Yule Log) that burned from Christmas Eve. Today the celebration is confined to Christmas Eve. Traditionally families gather and eat their way through the evening. No turkey, instead fillet steak, after foie gras. Many go to the Midnight Mass and then return home for dessert and presents. The party continues until people fall asleep - kids and all. No Boxing Day - just back to work (a bit blurry) on the 26th. Crackers are unknown, though sparklers and party poppers are here. Wife & I are honoured this year by an invite to a family on Christmas Eve. A rare event.90.9.81.70 (talk) 15:41, 9 December 2008 (UTC)DT

Yeah - I've done that too. But it's not that different. Most Brits do the whole celebration on the 25th - but quite a few Americans open presents on Xmas eve. Some Brits don't do present opening until after Xmas lunch - others suffer the kids waking up at 5am to do it! Also, I've not yet met an American who celebrates "boxing day" - that seems to be a uniquely British thing (although perhaps the Australians have retained that excuse to carry on partying). Americans eat turkey for Thanksgiving - and much, much less often for Xmas...Brits pretty much universally go for Turkey on the 25th. Hence my comment that the difference between French customs and British are no greater than between some Americans and some Brits. I'll say this though - in my experience - NOBODY parties like the French! SteveBaker (talk) 02:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

To Steve: Boxing Day is celebrated in most Commonwealth countries. And, despite what the article says, not all of us attend shop sales. In NZ, for example, it's common to have family picnics at the beach. Gwinva (talk) 03:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

In Canada, Boxing Day is just another day off work. Lots of people go shopping, but now that the sales continue during "Boxing Week", shopping on the 26th isn't necessary. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

why are pineapples called pineapples?

I just want to know why are pineapples called pineapples. I would be happy for you th email the answet for it to <email removed>. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Js47588 (talk • contribs) 05:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Please read the instructions before posting here. Never put your email and always search Wikipedia first. If you'd bothered to do that you'd see the answer is in the first major section of our Pineapple article - see Pineapple#Etymology. Exxolon (talk) 06:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Exactly where are (were) the Bluezes and Chimney Sweep (Bronx, New York)?

Some years ago, in a Congressional Directory from (I believe) 1947, in the library of a previous workplace, there is a locational reference to "the Bluezes and Chimney Sweep" as being contained within a particular Bronx, New York congressional district. Several islands were also listed in that district, including Rat Island.

This recently came to mind, so I decided to try Google, and found three references in Google Books, all in similar geographical descriptions of legislative districts. These references were even older, going back to 1914, making the circa 1947 reference the most recent known to me.

So I am guessing that these terms are obsolete and have been in disuse for at least several decades. I'm also guessing that these terms may refer to channels of water, and not to land.

Any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomerpdx (talk • contribs) 07:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

This [11] has:

• The Chimney Sweeps Islands, New York is a pair of tiny islands in the northern part of City Island Harbor. They and High Island divide City Island Harbor from Pelham Bay. They are made of bedrock entirely. The two islands are inhabited by Gulls, Skuas and Great Blue Herons.
• The Blauzes are two tiny islands in City Island Harbor, off the northern tip of Hart Island. They are made totally of bedrock with a slightly blueish tint and are oddly semi-hemispherical in shape. They are jokingly referred to by local residents as the Blue Breasts because their very odd shape resembles that of a voluptuous woman's busom. They are inhabited by two Great Blue Herons in the day, where they sleep if there are no humans. Fishers use them by day. The islands were privately owned in the 20th Century, but may now belong to the NYC Parks Department.. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Ichthyophobia

I have a form of relatively mild icthyophobia. I do not like touching fish, at all, and even looking at them can, especially if they are in close view, go 'ick' with disgust. I am a heterosexual male, past my teenage years. I should really be beyond these things. Furthermore, in recent years/months, I've almost entirely stopped eating fish due to my dislike of them. When I used to eat fish, I enjoyed it very much as a food, and also think there are health benefits of eating fish. It's so unfortunate then that I can't bring myself to eat fish because I'm so disgusted and freaked out by them for inexplicable, childish reasons. It's almost like a mild phobia. Believe me, it could be a lot worse, but when I see them gulping with their beady eyes, and I think 'people EAT those things?' it just puts me into a state of disbelief. I have no problem with eating shellfish, prawns, chicken, pork, lamb and beef, although pork sometimes freaks me out as well when I realise it's a pig. My favourite meats are chicken, lamb and non-fish seafood. Can you help?-Proactive primrose (talk) 23:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

You might want to read our article on desensitization therapy. Our articles seems rather sparse, so I will describe the method myself. You would slowly increase your exposure to the thing which you fear, until that fear goes away. In your case, you might start with a picture of a fish, then a frozen fish, then a thawed fish sealed in plastic, then actually touch a fish, then take one bite of tuna, etc. However, if this fails to work, is it really such a bad thing if you never eat fish again ? Many people have some food or the other they hate, and get by just fine without that food. StuRat (talk) 00:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it makes you feel any better, at the moment many of the health benefits of fish are markedly depreciated due to the declining health of the world's oceans, fish farming, etc. Many of the fishes that were once considered most healthful should now only be eaten sparingly because they have high levels of mercury, etc. But anyway, really, you should probably talk to a specialist about this, they can probably recommend a good path of action and help you get to the root of the problem. It could be something very simple, it could be something very complicated, it could be something that you can't really see very well from your perspective (e.g. a form of OCD or something along those lines). A professional opinion would be worth a lot more than the opinion than random people on the internet. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm intrigued as to why you mentioned your heterosexuality. I'm not seeing any connection between this sad condition and any aversion to fish. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Because being scared or fearful of a particular type of animal is seen as a womanly, or camp, thing.-Proactive primrose (talk) 12:21, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

JackofOz, I trust we have an encounter related to "this sad condition" to thank for your presence here (on Earth)! --Sean 13:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Cooking with white wine

I've got about half a bottle of a decent Chablis that I don't want to drink. What can I cook with it? Thanks 86.7.238.145 (talk) 23:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Put it into salmon tagliatelli pasta, lol.-Proactive primrose (talk) 23:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Googling "white wine sauce" brought up quite a few results. I've had some good garlicky wine-based sauces on linguini in the past, and I often throw some white wine in pasta salads, dressings and the like. I could be imagining things, but I find that wine cuts the sharpness of vinegar without canceling the flavor. I can't think of any one recipe that would use the whole half bottle, though, so you might be better off just mailing it to me. I'll drink it. --Fullobeans (talk) 00:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it's decent and you don't want to drink it, why would you want to eat it? Julia Rossi (talk) 10:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it is a half bottle of Chablis, you would be better off giving it to a friend/relative who appreceiates good wine, and getting something cheaper to waste in your food :-) Astronaut (talk) 12:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

December 10

Irish not jewish

i was looking for a book written by a German author about a country he has never step foot on..Please help cos i never got an actual answer from you guys. New Clue it's about the Irish People the book that is,, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.1.26.36 (talk) 00:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

You'll never get an answer if you keep changing the question! APL (talk) 02:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Strangely enough, I think a book about Irish people might refer to Ireland. Gwinva (talk) 03:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

But you should keep trying to get a clue. --- OtherDave (talk) 04:04, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I think you're now talking about Verarschen können wir uns selbst by Johann Wolfgang von Trollfutter. I read it for a while, but probably won't be reading it again. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it "Über Irland" by Karl Gottlieb Küttner, "the first German travel book to deal exclusively with Ireland"? Adam Bishop (talk) 04:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

No, he actually traveled to Dublin one stormy July 1783 and wrote about it in Briefe über Irland ("Letters on Ireland"), published in 1785. These days, the most famous book on Ireland by a German author is probably Heinrich Böll's Irisches Tagebuch ("Irish Journal", 1957), but Böll did visit Ireland. Sorry about my fictitious and angry answer above; I guess I lost the assumption of good faith this time around. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it involves Irish people, perhaps it's Thomas Mann's version of Tristan and Isolde titled Tristan. I've never read Mann's version myself, but I assume it to share the same common plot elements of most versions. Though Tristan is almost always a Briton, the main plot of the story always involves his adventures in Ireland. I don't see anything in Mann's biography that he ever visited Ireland, though he lived in Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Lithuania, and the U.S. If its about a German, writing about Ireland, though he never visited there, I'm going with Mann... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, good guess, but that book has nothing to do with Ireland. Anticipating The Magic Mountain, most of it is staged in a German sanatorium called Einfried, here an allusion to Richard Wagner's home named Wahnfried. The title is a reference to Wagner's music: In a key scene one afternoon, Detlev Spinell listens to Gabriele Klöterjahn perform the "Liebestod" motif from Tristan und Isolde and is transfigured in ecstatic adoration. Of course there are other parallels to the Tristan and Iseult theme, but it's more of a parody on Wagner's version, and Ireland is far away. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, very good guess. The answer might simply be Richard Wagner who of course wrote the libretto to Tristan und Isolde ("Irische Maid, Du wilde, minnige Maid! - Irish maid, my winsome, marvelous maid!" in the opening scene). I don't think Wagner ever visited Ireland. Then again, nor did Gottfried von Strassburg, but the Hitler connection fits Wagner better. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I like that idea, but can Wagner's libretto to T&I be properly called a "book", or can we interpret that word with a little more latitude than we normally would? Was it ever published as a literary work, separate from the opera for which it was written? -- JackofOz (talk) 06:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It's a "little book", literally :) ... Yeah, nor is Tristan "about the Irish people", but the clues haven't been that reliable so far, ... I don't know what to think. Maybe Tristan's crew fished for red herring while "the Irish people" were chasing wild geese. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not a book—at this point I'm not sure that matters, though—but a number of those stupid circulating lists of (extremely dubious) "strange facts" contain the statement "'When Irish Eyes Are Smiling' was written by a German, George Graff, who never set foot in Ireland."[12] Our article on the song attributes the lyrics to Chauncey Olcott and George Graff, Jr., the latter of whom is called (in the article on him) "a United States songwriter." Deor (talk) 13:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Gacy

Does anyone know where to get the floor plan for John Wayne Gacy's house? I'm reading a book about the killings and a floor plan would help. 8213 West Summerdale, Des Plaines, Il. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.225.133.60 (talk) 09:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Just to make it clear to whoever answers, 8213 West Summerdale was John Wayne Gacy's address - I nearly removed the address to protect the OP's privacy! Astronaut (talk) 12:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

GST refund in singapore

I am a PRC citizen holding Singapore Student pass. My friend told me that I cannot claim for tax refund when leaving Singapore during holidays, but I found a website, it says You are eligible if you are not a citizen or permanent resident of Singapore, and if you have not exercised employment in Singapore during the past 12 months. but it does not mention students. Am I eligible?--Bencmq (talk) 12:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

More info at http://www.customs.gov.sg/leftNav/trav/Tourist+Refund+Scheme.htm William Avery (talk) 12:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Midtown Manhattan restaurants

We're taking the kids to Rockefeller Center this weekend and I'm looking for any recommendations as to restaurants that are geared towards children. It's been some time since we've taken the kids to midtown, and I can't remember anything of note. Price isn't that big a deal, although I'd rather not pay an arm and a leg for chicken fingers and fries. The only thing I can think of is the food court at Rockefeller Center. If the Fat Man wants to take a break from his campaign and chime in, that would be most welcome. Thanks. 98.235.67.132 (talk) 13:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)