Talk:Punk rock

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Post Punk

I don't know why Television should be considered "post-punk". They were playing at CBGB and Max's Kansas City before most other NYC punk bands existed. I suppose in retrospect they can be considered "new wave" but they were an integral part of what was later called the "punk" scene in NYC in the late 1970's. The problem with labeling "genres" of music (or any art form) is that it is really a practice of critics. In the late 1970's in NYC, the artists that played at the above-mentioned venues, (The Ramones, Blondie, Television, Talking Heads, etc.) did not originally refer to their music as "punk", "new wave" or whatever, but they, and other artists playing those clubs, (Wayne County, The Dictators, The Heartbreakers, The Shirts, etc.) seemed to know that they they were part of a movement that was outside the mainstream music of the time. I didn't want to necessarily edit the main article since I couldn't find specific quotes; I was just there at that time and remember it. Proclivities (talk) 13:13, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree; they were fully formed musically long before post-punk happened. Ceoil ^sláinte 18:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

The article makes clear that, in addition to Television, several other bands that existed before the punk movement or that emerged along with it "were retrospectively defined as post-punk": In England, "Some bands classified as post-punk, such as Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire, had been active well before the punk scene coalesced." In the U.S., "The later work of Ohio protopunk pioneers Pere Ubu is also commonly described as post-punk." These statements, like the one concerning Television, are all supported by citations of quality sources. The preceding historical discussion explicitly covers the very point you raise, Proclivities, that the band was "playing at CBGB and Max's Kansas City before most other NYC punk bands existed." Please take a look at the first paragraph of the Early history section, which begins with the New York City subsection. Best, Dan.—DCGeist (talk) 19:34, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Los Angeles

We need to get up a good section on the LA scene. I was surprised when I noticed there wasn't a subcategory for it. New York has its own tab, and so should LA. Instead, the subcategorization is in North America which is too broad. Tim010987 (talk), WikiProject Punk music, 16:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Timeframe and usages of the term "punk rock"

The first line says that "Punk Rock" developed between 1974 and 1976.... is quite simply crap. The expression "Punk Rock" was used long before Johny Lydon started dressing like Richard Hell. Likewise, some mention needs to be made of the fact that prior to people like Caroline Coon's misuse, the term "Punk Rock" referred not to a genre, but to a wide array of founds and ideas. 41.245.131.192 (talk) 10:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)