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December 12

A&E Biography reference

I came across the following sentence that needs clean up in David Cassidy: According to a 2000 interview of his series' star on A&E Biography, Cassidy said that he wanted to hate his stepmother, but after his mother's real-life divorce, she immediately step in as he began to love her. I assume the end should read: she immediately stepped in and he began to love her. Could s.o. who has the original A&E Biography please verify. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 00:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two things. We're not generally supposed to be quoting exact text from sources, so even if it did say "step in" (highly unlikely, imho), there's no reason to just copy that error word for word. I suspect it's an editor's error in attempting to write good English. This is the sort of thing that should be corrected on sight, without any need to check sources. So, please feel free to change it in the way you suggest. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since the sentence had 2 snafus I just wanted to make sure that what I supposed it should read as was what it should read. Just checking. Correction done. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 05:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How do I beat level 7 in Wik fable of souls

i keep having trouble,epbr123 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yellojello3 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest a popular search engine for this info - type in the name of the game and also hints and tips - there's hundreds of sites and forums where they discuss these things - i used this for a few games eg GTA4 for the maps of the locations of the special items etc - really helpful... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gazhiley (talk • contribs) 12:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A term that will help you out when searching is "walkthrough" - This is the word most people now use when describing "how do I beat level X in game Y" -- 76.201.159.67 (talk) 18:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

other fictional airline

I know Oceanic Airlines is fictional. But I saw some promos for a couple CBS programs with another fictional airline. What was the fictional airline, and was it on Eleventh Hour or Without A Trace?72.229.139.171 (talk) 06:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of shows will use fictional names of airlines (or other companies) if the company is going to look bad as a result. So the fictional Oceanic is used in Lost because it crashed. If the airline is going to feature only to get the protagonists somewhere, while providing excellent service, then they will probably use a real name. Likewise if Law and Order have to investigate a fast food chain that is poisoning its customers you can bet it won't be a real one. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:29, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oceanic is an unusual case because the same fictional name has been used in multiple TV shows and movies, as explained in the article. This is because airplanes are expensive and the same shots of one have been reused. In general, shows wanting to use a fictional business name will make up a new one. --Anonymous, 05:28 UTC, December 14, 2008.

Alright. I'm still waiting to find out what the fictional airline name was in either Eleventh Hour or Without A Trace.72.229.139.171 (talk) 00:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Films about Nordic mythology

I'm looking for the films where the Nordic gods like Odin and Loki would be presented. No matter what country, no matter if silent or normal, I just need some films on that subject. I've tried to search myself, but I don't speak any scandinavian language. Does anyone know something that can be useful to me? Thanks a lot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.78.117.186 (talk) 14:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is not limited to films, but it might be a good start. Tomdobb (talk) 14:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thor's Hammer 194.80.240.66 (talk) 14:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And of course we have the upcoming Thor (film) BioYu-Gi! (talk) 21:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Valhalla (1986) for an animated Danish film. You can watch it with English subtitles on youtube. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:20, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You could check films based on Wagner (IMDb list), particularly Die Walküre and Das Rheingold. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 14:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I seem to recall hearing sometime that some of Shakespeare's work is based on nordic mythology. A quick search (without reading into them, just the search results) suggests Hamlet is based on an old norse myth. Might be worth looking into that perspective as most of Shakespeare's plays will have been made into films (either for cinema or for tv/video release). ny156uk (talk) 23:09, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But there are no Norse gods in Hamlet, or in the original story (which is told by Saxo Grammaticus by the way). Anyway, how about The Thirteenth Warrior, or any other films with Vikings? The gods themselves may not be present but they are usually there as part of the charaters' religion. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fritz Lang's Siegfried and Kriemhild's Revenge -- noosphere 09:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Purgatorio by Roberto Rochín Naya, any review available

I have been looking for some reviews on this film and find none. Certainly, this is not going to be an insignificant film. 59.91.254.11 (talk) 21:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Best I can find is this, near the bottom is discusses Purgatorio. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 18:09, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Les contes de Juan Rulfo.

Nous avons bien aimé le film, son originalité et son étrangeté. Pour ma part j'aimais des grands plans sur les visages, les paysages sobres, sombres et angoissants du Mexique et particulièrement la 2ème et la 3ème histoire, découvrant des excellents acteurs. Certains plans sont vraiment saisissants comme celui de reflets de silhouettes dans la flaque d'eau. On a bien aimé certaines réflexions comme celles concernant les hommes morts. Sylwia F (sept,2008)


Dans les années 50, sur sa voie vers la modernité le Mexique est touché par une transition douloureuse. Bonfilio quitte sa famille en la laissant sous la protection de son père, pour tenter sa chance au nord. Les conflits qui ont toujours existé entre lui et son père, sont résolus quand Bonfillio fait ses adieux. Lucia, la prostituée et Demetrio le fossoyeur, se retrouvent la nuit quand l'amour ne peut s'accomplir que lors de l'enterrement de Lucia par Demetrio. Don Julin, un propriétaire terrien, est rongé par ses remords, après le départ de Cleotilde avec laquelle il s'est marié en défiant les convenances.

Astra 28.2°E odd channel

There's an oddly titled channel amongst the free-to-air channels on asta 28.2E. It is called "coi tobacco dal". What a strange name! Nothing but rubbish on it, but what is it? A google search merely brings up listings of channels. Fribbler (talk) 23:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What channel is it on? DuncanHill (talk) 04:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


December 13

anti-drug videos

why is it that anti drug videos over exagerate so much? can't they just tell the straight truth? ps.there hillarious though!

The truth about anything is usually pretty boring. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is the way that most teenagers connect with the world, psychologically speaking. Most drugs are not harmful in the short term; but are devastating if used for long enough. Heroin, Meth, cocaine, etc. all do some pretty nasty stuff if taken for years and years; and they're also all fairly addictive. However, a single use of any one of these drugs is unlikely to be very damaging. And that is the crux of the problem when trying to get teenagers to understand the dangers of hard drugs; psychologically teenagers don't often think in terms of "twenty years down the road"... They live in the here and now. Show them a picture of a 20-year heroin user, and they cannot identify with that. So it is unlikely to affect them in any way; seeing what someone's life is like after 20 years of heroin use, and most teenagers feel nothing about that. To relate to teenagers, you need relate to them in ways that affect them NOW. So advertising has to focus on what drugs can do to teenagers NOW, and thus have to exagerate the short-term effects of hard drugs. Which is not to say that hard drugs are harmless; their addictive nature means that an often cavalier attitude towards hard drugs in the short term can lead to long term addiction, the effects of which aren't noticable until its too late to do anything about it... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I remember seeing a more realistic anti-dope video along the lines of "we got stoned, no-one died, no-one started a fight, we just sat around" - then the actor saying that he wasn't doing the same tonight as he'd decided it was more fun to get out there and do something exciting. Exxolon (talk) 05:13, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I did particularly like that one... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, introspection and insight is just so boring. Better to go out and play football. -- noosphere 09:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Exaggeration ? Are you telling me that "Reefer Madness" isn't a totally factual documentary ? StuRat (talk) 06:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, of course not. But even with weed, some people have a particular sensitivity to it, and find themselves in hospital with a truly horrible psychotic episode after smoking a small amount that most other users would take in their stride. There's no way to know whether a first-time user will find themselves in this situation or not until they do it. OR prevents me from revealing my evidence, but I know whereof I speak. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

it happened to me one I went to see fantomas and the melvins and got so high I lost three days and was freakin the hell out bithing the heads off rats s Wochende (talk) 17:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody around here was so high on marijuana he ripped out his own eye. [1] Adam Bishop (talk) 16:55, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Were you, perhaps, withdrawing from severe alcohol dependency? -- noosphere 09:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


December 14

Shirley Temple

Why is there such a gap between the acclaim and love of the Depression-era and a modern "hatedom" represented by people cheering when she's eaten by King Kong in the Simpsons. Paul Austin (talk) 00:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't aware anyone really hated Shirley Temple. I always thought she was a fairly competant diplomat for the U.S. Represented our interests well abroad. Do people really feel that strongly about her? I would read too much into an obtuse reference in a Simpsons episode either... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say any overexposed celebrity causes people to eventually get sick of them, especially if they're typecast, as Shirley Temple was (I'd have liked to see her in a movie like "The Bad Seed", to change her image). Shirley wasn't able to make it as an adult actress, partially because of this. StuRat (talk) 06:20, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There's often a gap between popular opinion and that of the knowing ironic over-educated types who write for The Simpsons; they make jokes about lots of more recent celebrities, and the show probably reflects the writers' attitude more than perceptions of public mood (if you showed someone genuinely hated, like Adolf Hitler or Leni Riefenstahl or Myra Hindley it wouldn't be so funny or transgressive). Even in Temple's heyday as a star, some cynical intellectual types like Graham Greene were very rude about her[2].
The biggest celebrities of bygone days don't often keep their luster (erstwhile screen hunks like Rudolph Valentino, Alan Ladd, and Victor Mature are today variously ignored or mocked - all most people now know about Ladd is him standing on a box), and even stars who keep their fame like Frank Sinatra are fair game for the Simpsons (in fairness, Temple probably never had links to organized crime). People are particularly suspicious of old-style child stars and children dolled up in glamorous fashion following things like theJonBenet Ramsay murder and tragic Hollywood life stories like that of Judy Garland.
Furthermore, Temple films such as Reconstruction-era drama The Littlest Rebel may be viewed as racist or at least politically dubious by people today. So it would be surprising if Temple got much respect from the show's makers; she should be glad to have been mentioned at all. (I recall that at one point the young Montgomery Burns appeared with blonde curls looking surprisingly like Temple.) --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 13:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I believe young Burns had the Little Lord Fauntleroy look, as in this pic: [3]. StuRat (talk) 15:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Need help searching LexisNexis for Milo and Otis references

Back when I had access to LexisNexis I was able to find references to animal cruelty allegations against Milo and Otis:

  1. ^ Hobart Mercury; September 18, 1990.
  2. ^ The Sunday Mail (Brisbane); April 15, 1990

I need the titles and authors of these articles -- can anyone help?--The lorax (talk) 02:15, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know, but if you post your request on the Resource Request page someone should be able to help you. --Richardrj talk email 08:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for songs for a "fashion" mix CD

Hey all! I am prone to assembling mixes for my own and others' amusement and currently I'm trying to put together a collection of songs in a "matter of appearances" theme. Songs about clothing, jewelry, makeup, hairstyles, and other aesthetic matters. Here's a sampling of what I have so far:

Thanks for any suggestions you can offer! Esoteric, mainstream, songbook stuff, whatever you can think of! Poechalkdust (talk) 13:30, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pepso2 (talk) 13:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
--Shantavira|feed me 13:57, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
--Bus stop (talk) 14:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
--DuncanHill (talk) 14:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
--Bus stop (talk) 15:49, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Puttin' On the Ritz"
—Tamfang (talk) 22:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't seen any heavy metal yet, so let me nominate Hell Bent for Leather by Judas Priest. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:38, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And, to get as far from heavy metal as possible, Raspberry Beret by Mr. Nelson. You know, the kind you find in a second hand store?--Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Killers – Bling 2006
Paul Simon – Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes
speaking of the Hollies, Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress Julia Rossi (talk) 07:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two numbers from the Great American Songbook, for old time's sake:

---Sluzzelin talk 09:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(could be the title here, even) Julia Rossi (talk) 09:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For bikinis, there are "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini", and maybe "Rebel Girl" by Bikini Kill. But Gogol Bordello's fashion tip is "Start Wearing Purple" ("... for me now. All your sanity and wits they will all vanish, I promise, it's just a matter of time") ---Sluzzelin talk 09:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another Bikini song: The Cramps - Bikini Girls With Machine Guns --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

---Sluzzelin talk 13:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Depeche Mode, "Dressed in Black" and "New Dress", both on the Black Celebration album. --LarryMac | Talk 13:39, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Back in Black, by ACDC of course. DuncanHill (talk) 13:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Red Dress" by Alvin Stardust "Ride a White Swan" by T Rex (wear a tall hat like a druid in the old days/wear a tall hat and a tattooed gown) "I'm Too Sexy" by Right Said Fred ("I'm too sexy for my shirt" - and my god he is too!) --TammyMoet (talk) 18:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't believe nobody's mentioned the Thong Song. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 17:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Single Ladies

Hello, does anybody know the names or stage names of the two Ladies (especially to Beyoncé's left hand side) next to Beyoncé in her Video "Single Ladies"? – http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=5N-T3CG0SOY – Thank you, Doc Taxon (talk) 14:19, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Clone Wars

I missed Star Wars: Clone Wars on friday. Can anybody tell me when Cartoon Network will show the episode on it's site? I know it's on again tonight but so is the last episode of Survivor: Gabon and I want to watch that too.--Pufferfish4 (talk) 19:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The episodes usually appear a few hours after broadcast, though episode 10 doesn't appear to have been added. You can watch it here on supernovatube or maybe find a torrent. SN0WKITT3N 13:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

December 15

Question about Terminators

Are Terminators supposed to be anatomically correct and fully functional? I've only recently started watching The Sarah Connor Chronicles and there has been a couple of scenes where the Terminatrix, Cameron (Terminator) has been dropping heavily suggestive hints to John Connor. Could a human actually 'do it' with a Terminator? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.92.203 (talk) 01:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Being fiction, I suppose the writers could do whatever they wanted. If it made more people watch the show, the writers are bound to do anything they want...--Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The T-800 apparently looked anatomically impressive on the outside, judging from the lady bikers' expressions in Terminator 2. Otherwise I would have to agree with Jayron - if you can believe that a time-travelling robot can look like Cameron, why not believe that John can have sex with it? Adam Bishop (talk) 08:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This has been the subject of much debate on the forums and discussion boards, and while the writers of TTSCC have not confirmed either way, most of the evidence suggests she is anatomically correct. When Cameron approaches the guys in the pilot episode she is fully naked and if she wasn't anatomically correct their reactions would have been a lot different from what they were. Also, as Adam Bishop said above, in T2 it is conveyed to the viewer that Arnie's Terminator is all there by the expression on the waitress's face when she sees him naked; but whether he is "fully functional" is a different matter. Also remember that Terminators are not only designed for combat but also for long term infiltration, so being anatomically correct would greatly aid in posing as human. In the episode Vick's Chip they hack into a T-888's chip to learn about it's mission, and discover that he was in a relationship as part of his cover. It is heavily implied that he was fully functional and that he was able to pose as the husband of a woman who was believed to have contributed to Skynet. Additionally, if Skynet has gone to the trouble of creating Terminators which are specifically designed to be and act female (skin, hair, facial features, ect) then it would seem plausible that it went all the way in designing them. As for if they would actually "do it", it looks like a relationship is possible as they both have showed at some interest ("I'm good now, I don't wanna go! I'm sorry, that wasn't me, I'm fix now I ran a test! Everything's perfect you can trust me! I love you! I love you please, I love you John and you love me"). Also, they always give each other those looks and it seems as if Cameron is jealous of Riley. Even Sarah has noticed this, saying to Cameron "I don't like the way he responds to you". I suppose the only things standing in their way is the stigma of dating a robot (Futurama: "Don't date robots!"), Sarah Connor's obvious disapproval and the fact that Cameron is posing as John's sister so there is that eww factor from onlookers who are unaware of the real situation. SN0WKITT3N 12:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Probably. It'd be a good way to kill someone, lure them into sex and then kill them while they are...um...entranced.  Buffered Input Output 17:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Except that if a Terminator got that close to someone who it was supposed to kill, what would be purpose of having sex before it broke your neck? SN0WKITT3N 18:07, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Because the punters might want to see that? Because casual sex often equals death in this area of storytelling? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 18:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
From my occasional browsings of the TTSCC forums, it would seem that at least half the people that watch the show only watch it because they want to see a torrid John and Cameron romance. Or simply because they want to see John voiding Cameron's manufacturer's warranty (or whatever humorous euphemism for man/fem-bot sex you choose). The writers would annoy a heck of a lot of fans if they didn't write her as being 'anatomically correct and fully functional' - though I doubt we'll see them actually doing anything until the end of the series. Shows have a habit of going seriously downhill when the unresolved sexual tension is resolved. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 18:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, the whole Cameron and John romance is extremely delicate and awkward. I wish she'd gone to the prom with Morris. SN0WKITT3N 18:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

German language film: devotion

I am looking for information on agerman lnguage film called devotion. The film primarily stars 2 characters who have sex and continually play games with each other —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.19.237 (talk) 07:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An IMDB search on that title draws a blank, as does a search for possible German-language equivalents. Are you sure about that title, and do you have any more information about the film? --Richardrj talk email 08:58, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Matthias Glasner's 2005 film Free Will ((Der freie Wille)[4] seems much darker than your description. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Devot[5]? The word is German BDSM slang for a submissive (German Wikipedia). --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 13:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pride & Prejudice

Can someone please name all the actresses that appear in this poster of the 2005 film adaptation of Pride & Prejudice? David Pro (talk) 15:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From left to right: Jena Malone, Carey Mulligan, Keira Knightley, Rosamund Pike, Talulah Riley (I think) ---Sluzzelin talk 15:37, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I dream of Keira, nightly. StuRat (talk) 21:26, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Little too skinny, but she's all right. bibliomaniac15 04:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

that was it thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.19.237 (talk) 07:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chipmunks/Beatles sales records

In 1958 the Chipmunk Christmas Song (Christmas Don't be Late) was the #1 seller of all time, with 4.5 million records sold. I undrestand that the Beatles beat tehm out in about 1963. What Beatles song out-sold Christmas Don't be Late?12.31.231.168 (talk) 16:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you talking about sales in the USA or elsewhere? List of best-selling singles in the United States gives Hey Jude as the only Beatles track to sell more than 4 million, but it was released in 1968. The list doesn't mention the Chipmunks, but their single may be too old.
List of best-selling singles worldwide gives The Chipmunk Song (Christmas Don't Be Late) at 5.5 million in 1958, and for the Beatles I Want to Hold Your Hand (1964) at 12 million and Can't Buy Me Love (1964) at 6 million; I Want To Hold Your Hand was released first, and so presumably would have outsold the Chipmunks first. However sales figures from that long ago are likely to be very inaccurate and to miss out sales in many markets. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 17:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Beecham Messiah (1927) and the BBC Choir and Symphony Orchestra

Hi, I recently acquired a copy of the 1993 Pearl re-mastering of Sir Thomas Beecham’s late 1927 recording of Handel’s Messiah (http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Messiah/dp/B000000WVM). According to the artist notes given by Pearl, the recording includes “The British Broadcasting Corporation Choir” and “Symphony Orchestra”. I took this attribution for granted; however, since then, I have learned by chance that the BBC Symphony Orchestra did not come into existence until 1930 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/symphonyorchestra/about_us/history.shtml) (I am not sure about the ‘BBC Choir’ – but the Symphony Chorus apparently began in 1928 http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/symphonyorchestra/symphonychorus/history.shtml). I have been looking online, but the only attributions I can find given of the orchestra and chorus used in the 1927 recording are those given by amazon and other music sites selling the Pearl transfer which follow the pearl issue by citing the BBC Choir/Chorus and SO.

What I would like to know, then, if anyone can tell me, is this: what orchestra and chorus are featured in the 1927 Beecham recording of the Messiah? Is it the BBC SO and Chorus (and if so, how? Were they, for example, a part-time organisation before 1930?)? Or is it a different set of musicians, e.g. the London Phil (who were Beecham’s orchestra at the time) or the LSO (with whom he performed Messiah the previous year)?

144.32.157.60 (talk) 17:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Monica (Friends)

How did Monica lose SO MUCH weight? It doesn't mention on the article on Monica. Thanks :) 122.162.175.73 (talk) 19:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By taking off the fat suit. You do know it's a fictional show, and therefore any answer isn't going to help anyone else lose weight? DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:33, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I know that. I just think their must be some plausible explanation offered for such an extreme transformation. 122.162.175.73 (talk) 19:44, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In the show it was a comment by Chandler calling her Ross's "fat sister" that finally gave her the resolve to lose weight. I would guess diet and exercise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 19:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's the big deal with whistling in an elevator?

In the play, Death of a Salesman, they seem to make a big deal about not whistling in an elevator. What's the big deal? 216.239.234.196 (talk) 20:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whenever I hear a man whistling in the elevator, I'm afraid he's going to pee there. StuRat (talk) 21:34, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Being a confined space, elevators by their nature cause all people to intrude on each other's personal space. People don't feel comfortable thinking about that, and so do their best to "ignore" the other people. Whistling destroys the illusion that you are alone on the elevator, and therefore makes others uncomfortable... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 22:10, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Talking would also destroy that illusion, but there seems to be no general taboo on talking in an elevator, even if most people pretend there's nobody else there to talk to. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It wasn't that long ago that I saw a study that found people could tune out conversations between multiple people performed at half the volume of a single person talking on a phone. This leads me to believe that people may be able to tune out conversations when all people involved are in the elevator, but not when the person talking is on a phone. -- kainaw™ 23:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It should also be noted that social mores have changed dramatically between the time period in Death of a Salesman and today... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Whistling (humming, singing, talking to yourself) in an elevator is noise for the sake of noise; it is intrusive and essentially dismissive of anyone else on the elevator. Talking to another person also on the elevator is somewhat less dismissive, as it includes at least the one other person, but it still creates an "us and them" in a very confined space. Taking a telephone call is in the same league. All of it is basically selfish behaviour and inconsiderate of others who are forced to share your space, voice and thoughts. Unless you know everyone on the elevator, you are best advised to keep your music and your thoughts to yourself. (How's that for a "bah! humbug" response?) ៛ Bielle (talk) 04:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm gonna agree with Bielle on this; its a lot like talking to a guy at the next urinal. Do some people do it? Yeah. But should you. Hell no... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that depends ... no, I'd better not go there. :) But seriously, would anyone already in a lift (so much shorter to write than elevator) object if the doors opened and in walked 2 or more people engaged in conversation, who continued to talk after the doors close again? It certainly wouldn't bother me. Two people who commenced a conversation after they were already inside might be a little different, but again, it wouldn't bother me as long as they spoke quietly and didn't overwhelm the whole carriage with their talk. That in itself seems to be a growing problem these days, since the advent of mobiles, and we see all sorts of commentary and complaints about people who feel the need to include the whole world in their mobile conversations. That can happen anywhere, and does, but I agree it's especially annoying in a confined space like a lift or a train. By the way, has it become socially acceptable to rip their mobile from their hand, fling it to the ground, stomp it to smithereens, and shout in their face "SHUT THE F***K UP!!!!!" - and if not, when will that happy day arrive? -- JackofOz (talk) 05:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(after ec) This discussion may be enlightening. Grutness...wha? 05:52, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Responding to Jack, I actually prefer two people engaged in their conversation to one or more silent companions in an elevator. The talkers make it easier for me not to "be there", while the confined intimacy of shared silence (occasionally broken by throat-clearing, gulping, and other bodily sounds) makes me feel more uncomfortable. Whenever possible, I take the stairs (stairwells often have great acoustics for whistling too). ---Sluzzelin talk 06:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I love whistling and whistle anywhere. And when I come across someone whistling in a shopping centre or street, I like to think there goes another whistler. We're a rare and uninhibited breed. On the question though, in Death of a Salesman ("Bob Harrison said you were tops, and then you go and do some damn fool thing like whistling whole songs in the elevator like a comedian") the drift is that it's déclassé or immature to whistle at work or in public, so it's a personal criticism. At this site[6] newsroom people discss a supersition about whistling in their particular workplace. Julia Rossi (talk) 07:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Whistling#Whistling_and_superstition also mentions superstition about whistling indoors in certain Eastern European cultures. My host in Budapest was confronted by his 80-year old neighbour who wanted to know why the foolish stranger insisted on whistling in the stairwell. I've been more self-conscious about whistling ever since. While we're at it, another whistling phenomenon that has fascinated me since I can remember, is that it can be subconsciously contagious, like yawning. When you're whistling, often someone else nearby will start whistling their own unrelated tune, without noticing the clash of the melodies. ---Sluzzelin talk 08:07, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
<whistles pitch-bend up with downward glissando> Mind boggling. Julia Rossi (talk) 10:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've never known it to be contagious. But, my experience with it was a few years of constantly whistling the theme to the Smurfs while I was in the Marines - specifically to annoy everyone else. Nobody else started whistling along with me. I just remembered another note on whistling... The Smothers Brothers had a skit that talked about whistling the dirty words to songs as a kid because they weren't allowed to sing them. So, if you hear some kid whistling a song, give him a good whack because he probably thinking of dirty words. -- kainaw™ 13:36, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think the deal with whistling stems from the fact that, like with playing the violin, you're either good at it or horrible. When an "amateur" whistler starts hitting the upper registers you can get a fingernails on chalkboard sort of resonance happening. I have no problem with two people carrying their conversation on in an elevator (with me also on board), though I'd be annoyed by a whistler going on in a confined space; it's easy to get a feedback pattern in there with all those flat hard walls. It would be like someone singing to themselves in my immediate personal space: a strong "shut-out" signal combined with an auditory assault. Matt Deres (talk) 14:37, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see much online about this, but there's an old belief that whistling conjures up the Devil. Whistling was certainly associated with the Devil in some operas, notably Arrigo Boito's Mefistofele. The article makes no mention of it, but at "Mefistofele has been thwarted; he disappears back into the ground as Faust dies", it perhaps should say that Mefistofele (the Devil) disappears while whistling. Debussy started work on an opera The Devil in the Belfry based on Edgar Allan Poe's story, with the non-singing role of the Devil being played by a whistler, but died before it was finished. Maybe any whistling indoors was considered bad luck, and was therefore relegated to outdoors. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:05, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If I may follow-up on my original question, why does Arthur Miller include this as part of the play? Whistling in an elevator (even if impolite) seems to me to be a pretty trivial matter. Is it possible that Miller is using this as a device to illustrate that Willy Loman and his sons are detached from reality by focusing on a trivial matter than say more valuable interview advice [7]? 216.239.234.196 (talk) 17:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you taking into account the vast social difference between the Lomans, their status and their era and 2008? People didn't have access to the internet and the reservoir of over-produced information necessary to confidently apply for jobs. They mainly relied on each other for help and support. The quality of that was determined by the people involved, social strata, interfamily relations and how in touch with reality anyone was. Miller is attacking the "American dream" along with the dreamers it seems. They are also attacking each other. Maybe there wouldn't be a play like that if Willy had simply said, Go to the local job centre and they'll get you organised, son. Not that families are free of personal criticism today, I'm just saying about the play, Julia Rossi (talk) 03:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I linked to an Web article because it was easiest for me. They had newspapers and magazines back then, did they not? Yes, Miller is attacking the American dream but disconnection with reality is also a key theme. Willy tells his wife that he took down his car window and then later states they haven't made cars like that in years. In the restaurant scene, Willy has a flashback to when his son caught him having an affair and the waiter finds him babbling on the floor of the restroom floor. Not to mention all the delusions where he has long conversations with his dead brother. There's lots of common sense advice one can give someone about an interview without even needing to consult a newspaper or magazine. Show up on time. Give a firm handshake. Sit up straight. Be polite. Instead, all Willy says is don't whistle in an elevator. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 13:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

December 16

Comparing boxing and wrestling

Why is it that professional boxers generally only have one or two fights a year, when professional wrestlers seem to be able to fight every couple of weeks? --81.76.54.220 (talk) 01:37, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because boxers are actually beating each other's heads in, and wrestlers are not. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:36, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To expand on what Adam Bishop has noted; in professional boxing, the outcome is not predetermined(well, not SUPPOSED to be) and the boxers are really trying to win by beating the other guy senseless. This, even for the winners, can take a terrible toll on the body, and professional boxers at the highest levels often do need months to recover from a fight. Professional wrestling is basically soap-opera. While the exhibition is physically demanding, the outcome is pre-determined and the wrestlers are play-fighting according to a script. This is a physically demanding venture, but no more so than say, a football game would be, and as such professional wrestlers have a much shorter turn-around time between matches. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's much much more simple than that: Money. The top boxers need to limit supply to increase demand. Amateur boxers and other combat-sports competitors can take part in fights at least monthly. As our Nigel Benn article notes he won 22 fights from 1987 to 1989. His record (http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=739&cat=boxer) shows 12 fights in 1987 alone. The reason is not so much physical, as it is financial. The biggest fights need to occur reasonably infrequently to maximise demand, and thus increase revenue per fight. If you look through the records of professional boxers they'll doubtlessly show a similar theme - more fights in the early professional years and less as they get higher up the 'ranks'. I'm sure fatigue from the fight plays a part but realistically all the other fighters manage so it must be (primarily) a monetary reason. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 11:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That does seem to play somewhat of a role as well, but also consider that early fights tend to be short (3 round) fights, while at the highest levels, championship fights can go on as long as 12 rounds. Thus, as their careers progress, the fights also become more physically demanding. Its likely some combination of the two. While a championship fighter could likely fight more than twice a year, boxing a 12 round fight every month may be excessive... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:08, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wrestling matches also don't last as long as a normal boxing match. In professional MMA, the bouts are indeed spread out to help increase the demand per fighter's appearance. They can, and do, fight on much shorter intervals when the opportunity arises. But MMA fights are in many ways less brutal than a boxing match; the ref is more likely to stop a fight for the health of a fighter and the fact you can fight all-out makes it easier to end a fight quickly, both in the sense that a knee to the head can end a fight in one shot and in the sense that the lesser athlete will gas themselves much more quickly and so get taken out. Boxing seems designed to drag out each fight, perhaps to help compensate for the fact each man only fights once or twice a year. Wrestling combines the all-out style of MMA without the fear of serious personal injury (well, less fear; accidents happen). Five minutes of posing for the droolers, five minutes of play-fighting, and five minutes of theatrics offstage; that's not exactly a punishing schedule for someone in good physical shape. Matt Deres (talk) 14:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Silent Night, Holy Night in a film

I seem to remember a film which has a part where kids run downstairs in slow motion to open their presents while this song plays. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? I may be wrong on the details a bit, but I think it's something like this. Oh, and it might be a very obvious film, just something that has slipped my mind. Thanks. 68.50.107.144 (talk) 01:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conway's Game of Life

Moved to Computing Reference Desk: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing#Conway's Game of Life. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GTA 4 Theme Song

What is the song played in the first GTA 4 trailer?Neon6419 (talk) 12:52, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arm in Arm by The Boggs. SN0WKITT3N 17:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Girl in the 2008 VGA's

Does anybody know the name of the girl that was dressed all in white and had black hair in the 2008 VGA's? She was in the commercials(moving around those panels like it was a touch screen) and showing the catagories for what award was being presented (on the touch screen).Neon6419 (talk) 12:52, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

texan lesbian prostitutes

i have heard of a film about texan lesbian prostitutes and apparently there is a scene which is artily shot. she has a dildo in her ass and is tapping it on a mirror but it is filmed in the mirror. what is this film called? Wochende (talk) 16:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can't find any mainstream movies with this in, could be wrong but this sounds like a standard porn movie. Google it and you'll get loads of results. SN0WKITT3N 17:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's the problem. If you google texan lesbian prostitutes dildo ass you will probably get thousands if not millions of hits. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 14:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I can't wait for the next instalment in the series, "Texan Lesbian Prostitutes with Dildos in their Asses Survive the Texas Chainsaw Massacre". I might give a copy of the DVD to my grandmother for Christmas. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I got Zombie Strippers on Blu-Ray from Netflix the other day, but haven't watched it yet. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 13:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Magic: the gathering

Here you will see at the lower left corner a 1/1 below a spear. What does this mean?96.53.149.117 (talk) 18:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)96.53.149.117 (talk) 18:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)96.53.149.117 (talk) 18:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)96.53.149.117 (talk) 18:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's some kind of joke card so you'd need to ask its creator, but on a normal Magic card that number would represent the card number within a set - ie in this case it is card #1 in a set of 1 card. ~ mazca t|c 09:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What does a flaming 8-ball symbolize?

I've seen loads of people around with tattoos of an 8-ball with a trail of flames behind it (Google image seach for 'flaming 8 ball' for examples of what I mean). I've also seen the symbol used on jackets, caps, cigarette lighters and once on the gas tank of a bike. What does it mean? Is it some sort of drug-related/occult symbol? Or prison ink? Or something related to biker gangs? Anyone know? Thanks. --84.69.203.30 (talk) 22:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here[8] two years ago, the answer was that it means the person "can smoke an entire 8-ball (1/8 of an ounce) of dope". Julia Rossi (talk) 03:49, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is that a lot then? DuncanHill (talk) 03:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not for this guy... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
for cocaine it's vaguely, 2-4 inches long: Eightball ('Ball') - 1/8 ounce (3.5 grams). And for marijuana, the same weight and twice its usual cost. Since they're both friable materials, it's like Jayron says. I have the mental picture of him shovelling it off the table with his arm while sniffing. Gahd, Julia Rossi (talk) 08:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

December 17

Renee Richards

Hi I want to write an article about Uk Porn-star Renee Richards Who recently won Girl of the Year award at the UK Adult Film and Television Awards. As there is already a page regarding another famous Renee Richards, it does not give me the option to write a new article about the pornstar Renee. How is it possible to produce this new article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jesspassiton (talk • contribs) 11:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You need to make the article title slightly different. I think the standard affix is something like Renee Richards (porn star). That link should be red and allow you to edit. Make sure you have reliable sources to reference your article. Matt Deres (talk) 12:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's also a good idea to tie the two articles together with "hatnotes", as I've just done using the {{for}} template. If there were more than two people of the same name with Wikipedia articles, creating a separate page titled "Renee Richards (disambiguation)" would be a better choice and then you would make the hatnotes all link to that, probably using a different template. --Anonymous, 21:32 UTC, December 17, 2008.

michael jackson

why is it that even though Michael jackson was found not guilty of touching the kids, people still assume he did it? Wochende (talk) 12:49, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

because society tends to prefer scandal to truth when the truth isn't as interesting... Gazhiley (talk) 13:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You shouldn't mistake acquittal for innocence. Tomdobb (talk) 13:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For me, it's because no adult heterosexual man would want to sleep in bed with a boy (at least not related to him). I get frequent hard-ons in the middle of the night and the idea that some boy might notice it or accidentally rub against it totally grosses me out. I should also point out that I'm a long time MJ fan. Thriller was the first album I ever bought, I memorized the dance moves in the video and own ever single MJ album and Jacksons album released over the last 30 years and greatest hits albums for the music before that. I still listen to his music, but I certainly think he's guilty. I rationalize it with myself on the grounds that just because someone is a pervert doesn't mean they don't have any artistic talent. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 14:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, without the artistic contributions of pervs, we'd be without the films of Roman Polanski, the books of Lewis Carroll, and the paintings of Paul Gauguin. StuRat (talk) 15:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They had an interesting discussion about this on newsnight where adult men sharing with boys was defended ( I can't remember on why grounds annoyingly). In any case, Its a shame that someone can be accused of something so horrendous and despite having been acquitted, still be 'deemed' guilty in the public conscience. makes me wonder why we bother with the 'whole trial by jury' thing.. 82.22.4.63 (talk) 00:17, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because a criminal trial in the US does not determine guilt. It determines whether the prosecution can prove guilt. Further, the standard by which is proving beyond a reasonable doubt, not preponderance of the evidence. So a jury can feel that a defendent is probably guility, but still acquit. It's also important to note that a jury never rules that someone is innocent, only not guilty. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 13:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, but that still proves my point doesn't it? 12 ordinary men and women, having seen all the evidence and heard all the arguments, believe there is insufficient evidence to prove someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Yet joe public, having read a few tabloid stories, thinks he has all the evidence he needs to assume guilt or, as you put it, "certainly think he's guilty". Like i said, I wonder why we bother...82.22.4.63 (talk) 14:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you're incorrect to assume that people simply drew that conclusion from "a few tabloid stories". Jackson's trial was highly publicized and covered by numerous reliable sources on a daily basis for the entire length of the trial. You should note that OJ Simpson (also highly covered by reliable sources) was found not guilty by the standard of reasonable doubt (in the criminal trial) and guilty by preponderance of the evidence (in the civil trial). Joe Public is free to set whatever standards they like. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 16:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I, for one, think that the most important factor that determines whether you're found guilty in court is how wealthy and famous you are, not your actual guilt. An illegal immigrant who doesn't speak the language or have any money can be convicted of murder and sent to death row because he vaguely matches the description and was found within 10 miles of the crime. Meanwhile, a celebrity can commit just about any crime and be acquitted, if it even makes it to court. The one positive note on the acquittal of Jackson and Simpson is that it shows the system isn't racist, except in that minorities are more likely to be poor, and thus be convicted without a fair trail. StuRat (talk) 16:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In this case in particular, the jurors based their decision on the evidence: A man with a 3-floor bedroom (larger than many large houses) invited boys to stay the night in a slumber party. He had multiple beds in his bedroom, but most boys preferred the big bed - one that is larger than a large bedroom and easily sleeps dozens of people without touching. The public, on the other hand, based their decision on the tabloids - a man had a boy in his bed. -- kainaw™ 18:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why Batman & Robin wasn't successful?

Why? 200.50.33.55 (talk) 13:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Budget of $140 million, and worldwide box office take of $240 million. Why do you consider this to not be successful? --Onorem♠Dil 14:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The film's article actually has a lot of information on this. Give the Release section a look. Tomdobb (talk) 15:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Bat-nipples, Bat-butts and Bat-crotches. Kreachure (talk) 21:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Christmas medley containing "While Shepards Watched" AND "Hark the Herald Angels Sing"

Which Christmas song includes the lines “While Shepherds watched their flocks by night” and “Hark the herald angels sing”? Perhaps there was a medley by someone? 195.167.178.194 (talk) 15:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well "While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks" and "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" are both full Christmas songs in their own right. Regarding medleys of Christmas songs, there is long tradition of mixing and merging Christmas carols into medleys. Usually this is so unremarkable as not to warrant a specific title, rather being referred to simply as "Medley of (French/English/Traditional/etc.) Christmas Carols". It happens with such regularity that I wouldn't be surprised if there was three or four different medleys which incorporated both "Shepherds Watched" and "Hark". Unless you have further information about the particular medley you're thinking of, it is unlikely that we'll be able to narrow it down. -- 128.104.112.113 (talk) 22:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It could possibly be a medley by Trans-Siberian Orchestra, which is known for repackaging several christmas songs into a single tune. For example, their most popular tune is probably Christmas Eve/Sarajevo 12/24 which is a medley of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen and Carol of the Bells. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for dark comedy film

Hi, I'm looking for a dark comedy film from early to mid-90s about a couple driving around trying to dispose of a middle-aged lady's body. They try to throw the body from a bridge, bury it, and other things, but every time the body returns to them through quirky circumstances. That's all the info I have on it. Thanks in advance, Kreachure (talk) 21:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could it be Enid is Sleeping ? 93.96.152.255 (talk) 07:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Throw Momma from the Train starring Danny DeVito and Billy Crystal? Come to think of it, probably not. Astronaut (talk) 13:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably "Enid is Sleeping". I'll check that one out, thanks. Kreachure (talk) 14:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

December 18

The minor fall, the major lift

I know what a fourth and a fifth are, but what are a minor fall and a major lift? --Tango (talk) 00:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

this post suggests they are just the feelings that come with using the minor (this is the relative minor of the tonic methinks) and then going back to the fourth. I tried playing it on my keyboard here and I didn't feel particularly fally or lifty. I'll try the guitar. There sure are a lot of blogs and stuff talking about it. NByz (talk) 00:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If I remember right, Cohen is describing the chord changes in the song itself. Its been a while since I played this one, but it goes something like this:

....G...................C..........D
It goes like this the fourth, the fifth
.....Em.................C....D
The minor fall and the major lift

The song uses the basic "pop song" 4-chord progression (I IV V vi). In the key of G (which is how I always play it) the root is G, the 4th chord C, the 5th is D, and the relative minor is Em. The idea behind the "minor fall" is a drop into the relative minor key (Em for G) and the major lift is a return to the major key (in this case G). I could probably come up with about 100 songs that do the same basic progression (I-IV-V on line 1 and vi-IV-V on line 2); which is of course the idea behind the song. He's lost his girlfriend and he's trying to show her how much he loves her (I heard that there's a secret chord/that David played and it pleased the Lord), but he recognizes the futility (but you don't even care for music, do ya) and indeed that the commonness of the song is unlikely to contain that perfect chord (The "it goes like this" part). He feels lost and confused (the baffled king (i.e. the narrator of the song) composing Hallelujah...) One of my favorite songs, BTW. Great tune. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's pretty much my take on it, too - at least as far as the chords go. As far as the message of the song overall goees, there's also of course direct Biblical allusions (in a way, it's almost as dense with them as James Joyce's writing, though a lot easier on the brain!). There's a good article on the song on the BBC's news website at this url, BTW. Grutness...wha? 02:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC) (who has yet to hear a better version of this wonderful modern standard than John Cale's)[reply]
I have heard Cohen talk about the song, and he called it something like "a four-minute orgasm" and explained the meaning as using religious epiphany as a metaphor for orgasm (Think also the same metaphor in the Nine Inch Nails song "Closer", though its certainly more explicit THERE). The whole thing is a juxtaposition of the sacred (the story of David and Bathsheeba) and the profane (sex), and all of that is wrapped around what is essentially a break-up song, again the breakup of a romantic relationship as juxtaposed to one "losing their faith" and losing their connection with God. It is dense with meaning, and yet beautiful and simple at the same time. And I've always been partial to the Jeff Buckley version, myself... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know the song, but fwiw the progression I-IV-V-vi looks like a standard deceptive cadence. Pfly (talk) 08:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much, that makes a lot of sense! --Tango (talk) 11:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Methods used to Compose Classical Music

I usually write songs by trying to find unusual patterns (usually in unusual time signatures) and then build on them. I will often compose the leads by just whipping out the guitar and playing around. Earlier this week, I decided I wanted to try to compose a song in a classical style - a song that would "sound like classical music". It seems like many classical songs were composed as simple arpeggiated chord patterns on a clavichord or piano, with "mono-line" instrumental parts over them, passing the "lead" back and forth. This is how I've started off, and it's pretty interesting, although I wouldn't say it's my best work to listen to (Interestingly enough, re-rendering the midi of the whole project into a voice that can only play one tone at a time yields a pretty wicked dance-sounding song).

I was wondering if this was the usual way that classical music was composed, or if anyone had any other suggestions for a method of yielding a song that sounds 'classical' (other than "using classical instruments, of course" :) ). NByz (talk) 00:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to take a look at the articles Fugue and Sonata. If they don't help, let us know. Deor (talk) 03:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I had never been to that fugue article before. Thanks! NByz (talk) 04:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See also Alberti bass for your 'simple arpeggiated chord patterns'. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arnold's shotgun in Terminator 2

I was watching T2 on DVD last night and I found myself wondering if and how it's really possible to cock a pump-action shotgun one-handed by spinning it around a finger.

This is the shotgun that Arnold's T-800 uses in the first half of the movie, btw. Most famously when he's riding his Harley through the drainage canals while being chased by the T-1000 in a truck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.195.17 (talk) 06:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The shotgun used in the movie isn't a pump-action, it's a Lever-action (if you recall his method of cocking from the 'gun hidden in the box of roses' scene). The imdb entry for T2's goofs notes that two types of cocking lever were used, one normal lever that closely fitted Schwarzenegger's hand for the normal scenes and a larger one for the motorcycle scenes. Whether or not it is possible to cock it one handed, I don't know, but it looks physically possible. Nanonic (talk) 07:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And from our article on Terminator 2 - "The sawed-off shotgun used by Schwarzenegger throughout the film was a modified Winchester Model 1901 10ga lever-action shotgun, modified especially for the film to allow it to be "flip-cocked" by the actor in several of the film's scenes." Nanonic (talk) 07:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot. I thought that the gun he had in the box of roses at the beginning was a different gun to the one he had when he was on the bike. I guess that I wasn't paying attention. --84.68.195.17 (talk) 07:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If it is possible to cock the gun in that way, I suspect you would need long arms and be very careful not to accidentally fire the gun while twirling it around. Astronaut (talk) 12:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
YouTube says 'maybe'. FWIW, during the final confrontation with the T-1000 at the steel mill in the movie, Sarah ably demonstrates how to cock a pump-action shotgun one-handed (I've no idea if you can do that outside of the movies). She'd have to toss it up in the air and catch it by the grip in order to fire it with the same hand though. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 07:31, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
When you have questions about guns in movies, always check out the Internet Movie Firearms Database. And they have a page on Terminator 2: Judgment Day as well.--droptone (talk) 13:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Before Terminators are sent on missions, they are required to watch John Wayne movies. ;-) The "flip-cock" move was of course made famous by Wayne in True Grit (see also this), if not other films. —Kevin Myers 15:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I thought the 'flip-cock' was something else entirely Wochende (talk) 17:28, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

December 19

Songs

There was a song that was played at Boston Pizza in Timberlea in Fort McMurray at around after 3:00 P.M. Mountain Time (anyhow, my time), and the singer sounded like Lights (like how she was singing, just not her voice) in Drive My Soul. And the song is electronic. Who is the artist and what is the name of the song?

2 years ago, in a cafe on 104 St. in Edmonton, Canada, a song was played at around 6:00 P.M., (maybe), and it sounded like Fischerspooner's A Kick In The Teeth, with the alternating "octaves" (what is this called? It's not sol do (solfege), because that's only one octave), at the start, just the alternating notes, but throughout the song, it is a female sounding voice and a male sounding voice, not just a male voice (maybe it is, maybe it is not, Fischerspooner's).96.53.149.117 (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)96.53.149.117 (talk) 00:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which version of All Along the Watchtower is better - Bob Dylan or Jimi Hendrix?

I like both. I like both a lot. But if I'd have to go with one, I'd go with the Bob Dylan version. Which one is in the eyes of critics considered the best, can anyone tell me?--Nubile Servant (talk) 00:52, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The instructions at the top of the page say "The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions or predictions about future events. Do not start a debate; please seek an internet forum instead." Perhaps this question is better suited for somewhere else... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. You are asking for opinions, not the facts that the ref desk is designed to provide. I actually prefer a different version, but I'm not going to buy into this. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 01:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)::[reply]
No, I'm asking for the opinions of established music critics such as Lester Bangs, and to see if anyone can provide them here. I'm not asking for the original research of your opinion, say.--Nubile Servant (talk) 01:41, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Then you've misphrased the question. "Which version of All Along the Watchtower is considered better by the majority of established music critics?" would be how to ask this. Exxolon (talk) 02:07, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me but that's exactly what the OP asked in his question. He didn't ask it in the header, granted, but the header is just a summary of the question anyway. --Richardrj talk email 08:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Dylan performed it first. Hendrix expanded on it. Dylan then absorbed a lot of Hendrix' version into his live performances. So, Dylan appears to feel that Hendrix improved on the original performance. -- kainaw™ 13:53, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Song in this video,

What is the name of the song and the band in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpZvzDVxRc 85.220.43.26 (talk) 07:03, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's All Star (song) by Smash Mouth. Nanonic (talk) 08:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I love this song. 85.220.43.26 (talk) 09:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Out of MS-DOS, Macintosh, Apple II, Amiga, Commodore 64, and all those other old computer operating systems, what was the most used one for games from companies like Sierra and Infocom?

  • Back in those days games weren't limited to one single operating system. I used to have a Commodore 64 and an Atari system and I played different games on each. I guess that whatever system was used most was the one that was sold most because games were usually played on the system you had at hand. - Mgm|(talk) 08:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how you would quantify "most used one for games" other than based on sales by OS. I have no idea where you would find those numbers. I was an Apple ][ guy back in the day. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Infocom

Why was Infocom so-called? More specifically, what does the name "Infocom" mean? 124.180.116.201 (talk) 07:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What does "Microsoft" mean? What does any random corporate name mean? It sounds vaguely computer-y. That's about it... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In this PDF linked in the Infocom article, this sentence is found - "A company was thus born: Infocom, 'the name least offensive to everyone.'" There is a footnote indicating that quote comes from an article in The New Zork Times. I've searched through a few of the other links, and links from those links, but can't really find anything definite. I am pretty sure I still have all my copies of the NZT (and The Status Line as it was renamed after a certain large newspaper got cranky); perhaps I'll be able to find them over the holidays and update the article. --LarryMac | Talk 13:52, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yogi Bear episode

Does anyone recognized this episode which featured Yogi Bear? I only saw a clip of it. Here's how it went. Yogi was searching for his friend Boo Boo in the forrest. On his way, he notices some bears obliviously slurping nectar with some flies on themselves. Yogi approaches some of the bears and started pulling back his index finger in front of them repeatedly. Yogi then hesitates, points his finger at one of them and shouts "Homewrecker!" One of the bears around sneaked behind him and bit his foot. Yogi started running in terror, passing by trees that have faces. 210.4.123.128 (talk) 13:35, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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