Talk:Muhammad

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Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

Important notice: Prior discussion has determined that pictures of Muhammad will not be removed from this article, and removal of pictures without discussion at Talk:Muhammad/images will be reverted. If you find these images offensive, it is possible to configure your browser not to display them. Discussion of images should be posted to the subpage Talk:Muhammad/images.

The FAQ below addresses some common points of argument, including the use of images and honorifics such as "peace be upon him". The FAQ represents the consensus of editors here. If you are new to this article and have a question or suggestion for it, please read the FAQ first.

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Frequently asked questions

Many of these questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Muhammad.

To view an explanation to the answer, click the [show] link to the right of the question.

Q1: Shouldn't all the images of Muhammad be removed because they might offend Muslims?

A1:

There is a prohibition of depicting Muhammad in certain Muslim communities. This prohibition is not universal among Muslim communities. For a discussion, see Depictions of Muhammad and Aniconism in Islam.

Wikipedia is not bound by any religious prohibitions, and it is an encyclopedia that strives to represent all topics from a neutral point of view, and therefore Wikipedia is not censored for the sake of any particular group. So long as they are relevant to the article and do not violate any of Wikipedia's existing policies, nor the laws of locations where Wikipedia's servers are hosted, no content or images will be removed from Wikipedia because people find them objectionable or offensive. (See also: Wikipedia:Content disclaimer.)

Wikipedia does not single out Islam in this. There is content that may be equally offensive to other religious people, such as the 1868 photograph shown at Bahá'u'lláh (offensive to adherents of the Bahá'í Faith), or the account of Scientology's "secret doctrine" at Xenu (offensive to adherents of Scientology), or the account at Timeline of human evolution (offensive to adherents of young Earth creationism). Submitting to all these various sensitivities would make writing a neutral encyclopedia impossible.

Q2: Aren't the images of Muhammad false?

A2: No claim is made about the accuracy of the depictions of Muhammad. The artists who painted these images lived hundreds of years after Muhammad and could not have seen him themselves. This fact is made absolutely clear in the image captions. The images are duly presented as notable 14th- to 17th-century Muslim artwork depicting Muhammad, not as contemporary portraits. See Depictions of Muhammad for a more detailed discussion of Muslim artwork depicting Muhammad.

Similar artistic interpretations are used in articles for Homer, Charlemagne, Paul of Tarsus, and many other historical figures. When no accurate images (i.e. painted after life, or photographs) exist, it is a longstanding practice on Wikipedia to incorporate images that are historically significant artwork and/or typical examples of popular depictions. Using images that readers understand to be artistic representations, so long as those images illustrate the topic effectively, is considered to be more instructive than using no image at all. Random recent depictions may be removed as undue in terms of notability, while historical artwork (in this case, of the Late Medieval or Ottoman period) adds significantly to the presentation of how Muhammad was being topicalized throughout history.

These depictions are not intended as factual representations of Muhammad's face; rather, they are merely artists' conceptions. Such portrayals generally convey a certain aspect of a particular incident, most commonly the event itself, or maybe the act, akin to the Western genre of history painting. The depictions are, thus, not meant to be accurate in the sense of a modern photograph, and are presented here for what they are: yet another form in which Muhammad was depicted.

None of these pictures hold a central position in the article, as evident by their placement, nor are they an attempt to insult the subject. Several factions of Christianity oppose the use of hagiographic imagery (even to the point of fighting over it), but the images are still on Wikipedia, exactly for what they are—i.e. artistic renditions of said people.

Q3: How can I hide the images using my personal Wikipedia settings?

A3: If you do not wish to view Muhammad images, you can hide the depictions in this article from your personal account by following these steps:

Sign in or create an account
Click on this link to modify your personal CSS stylesheet (if no page is there already, just go ahead and create a page)
Click the edit button, and add the following line: .page-Muhammad .depiction {display: none;}
Click Publish changes or Publish page to save the preference

Please note that this will not hide the images for other users, or from yourself if you log out of your account.

Alternatives: If you do not have an account, and do not wish to register an account, you can disable all images on Wikipedia by going to the mobile version of the website (en.m.wikipedia.org), then going to "settings" and choosing "images off".

You may also block a list of specified images, following the format of this example.

Experienced JavaScript programmers can hide depictions of Muhammad on the desktop site using Greasemonkey or a similar tool.

Q4: Why does the infobox at the top of the article contain a stylized logo and not a picture of Muhammad?

A4: This has been discussed many times on Talk:Muhammad and many debates can be found in the archives. Because calligraphic depictions of Muhammad are the most common and recognizable worldwide, the current consensus is to include a calligraphic depiction of Muhammad in the infobox and artists' depictions further down in the article. An RFC discussion confirmed this consensus.

Q5: Why is Muhammad's name not followed by (pbuh) or (saw) in the article?

A5: Wikipedia's biography style guidelines recommend omitting all honorifics, such as The Prophet, (The) Holy Prophet, (pbuh), or (saw), that precede or follow Muhammad's name. This is because many editors consider such honorifics as promoting an Islamic point of view instead of a neutral point of view which Wikipedia is required to maintain. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) also recommends against the use of titles or honorifics, such as Prophet, unless it is the simplest and most neutral way to deal with disambiguation. When disambiguation is necessary, the recommended form is the Islamic prophet Muhammad.

Q6: Why does the article say that Muhammad is the "founder" of Islam?

A6: While the Muslim viewpoint about Muhammad is already presented in the article, a Wikipedia biography article should emphasize historical and scholarly viewpoints. The contention that Islam has always existed is a religious belief, grounded in faith, and Wikipedia cannot promote religious beliefs as facts. Because no religion known as "Islam" exists in any recorded history prior to Muhammad, and Muhammad created the conditions for Islam to spread by unifying Arabia into a single religious polity, he effectively founded the establishment of Islam as the dominant religion in the region. The word "founder" is used in that context, and not intended to imply that Muhammad invented the religion he introduced to Arabia.

Q7: Why does it look like the article is biased toward secular or "Western" references?

A7:

Accusations of bias toward Western references are often made when an objection is raised against the display of pictures of Muhammad or lack of honorifics when mentioning Muhammad. All articles on Wikipedia are required to present a neutral point of view. This neutrality is sometimes mistaken for hostility. Note that exactly the same guidelines apply to articles about Christianity or any other religion.

In addition, this article is hosted on the English-language Wikipedia. While references in languages other than English are not automatically inappropriate, English-language references are preferred, because they are of the most use to the typical reader. This therefore predisposes the material used in this article to some degree (see WP:NONENG).

Q8: Why can't I edit this article as a new or anonymous user?

A8: Persistent disruption of the page has forced us to disable editing by anonymous editors and new accounts, while still allowing edits by more experienced users who are familiar with Wikipedia's editorial policies and guidelines. This is likely to remain the case for the foreseeable future. In any case, the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License grants everybody the right to republish this article elsewhere, and even to modify it themselves, so long as the original authors (Wikipedia contributors) are also credited and the derivative work is distributed under the same license.

Q9: Can censorship be employed on Wikipedia?

A9: No. The official policy is that Wikipedia is not censored.

Q10: Because Muhammad married an underage girl, should the article say he was a pedophile?

A10: This question has been actively discussed in Talk:Muhammad, and those discussions are archived. According to most traditional sources, Muhammad consummated his marriage to his third wife Aisha when she was nine years old. This was not considered unusual in Muhammad's culture and time period; therefore, there is no reason for the article to refer to Muhammad in the context of pedophilia.^[1] Even today, in parts of the world, the legal age of consent is as young as eleven years old, or any age inside of a marriage. In any case, any modern controversy about Aisha's age is not best dealt with in a biography about Muhammad. See the articles on Aisha and Criticism of Muhammad § Aisha for further information.

References

^ C. (Colin) Turner, Islam: The Basics, Routledge Press, pp.34–35

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This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Noam Cohen (February 5, 2008). "Wikipedia Islam Entry Is Criticized". New York Times.
Torsten Kleinz (February 6, 2008). "Wikipedia: Streit um Mohammed-Bilder (german)". Heise.
Fox News (February 6, 2008). "Muslims Protest Wikipedia Images of Muhammad". Fox News.
Caroline Davies (February 17, 2008). "Wikipedia defies 180,000 demands to remove images of the Prophet". The Observer.
Inquirer Newsdesk (February 11, 2008). "Wikipedia faces wrath of Islam". The Inquirer.
K.C. Jones (February 7, 2008). "Wikipedia Refuses To Delete Picture Of Muhammad". InformationWeek.

Muhammad has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 7, 2005	Peer review	Reviewed
January 8, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
March 30, 2006	Good article reassessment	Delisted
July 5, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
Current status: Good article

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re: Images on the Arabic Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Muhammad&oldid=192924201

I cannot find this discussion in the archives, so I'm copying it from history now. /X

FAQ images

Unfortunately the FAQ doesn't have its own talk page, so I'm raising this here.

User:Amatulic has twice reverted in a set of various provocative image links on this template for the purpose of illustrating that Wikipedia is not censored. That Wikipedia is not censored does not imply that prominently linking that which may be provocative is automatically okay. I believe this list of images should be removed from the FAQ again; relevant information is found on the linked WP:CENSOR, but there's no need to shove it into people's faces. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see a problem with referring to examples of other images. My only quibble is that there are too many examples. A "such as... X, Y, and Z" seems sufficient. -- tariqabjotu 03:13, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since the images in question are linked, rater than displayed, this complaint is wholly without merit, IMO. Being offended by linked images is just...silly. Tarc (talk) 03:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove all the pictures that contain any cartoon or shape of human, because its not accepted by Islam.

Islam does not allow pictures or cartoon of Muhammad or any persons so remove it for make this article acceped to the Muslims. Azraf (talk) 17:23, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Request declined. This is not Islamopedia. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:46, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball Bugs, dude you're not in charge of Wikipedia, this is a legitamite statement. Anyway to the original poster, it has been decided that on consensus, regretfully, that the pictures are allowed. Baseball Bugs, next time give evidence to back up you're view instead of saying "request declined". LOTRrules (talk · contribs · email) 00:13, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, he should not, and I would not have either. It is the same, tired, stupid 'request' that gets posted here ever month or so. These demands are not being made in good faith, they are not here with any intent, ability, or desire to improve the Wikipedia. They are here to push an agenda, and are dealt with brusquely and appropriately. My preference would be to go even further, and simply revert the 'request' and not have to waste time with this. Tarc (talk) 00:37, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. I actually cut him too much slack. I will do as you suggest, next time. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 07:14, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the gigabyte or so of archived discussion where it has been made abundantly clear that we have no interest in changing our rules to suit religious thinking is more than enough evidence to support Baseball Bugs' view. As he says, this is not Islamopedia, and quite frankly, the opinion of Islam is completely irrelevant. Reso lute 07:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball Bugs response was fine. I doubt that all those who make these requests come here in bad faith; I'm sure that there are many Muslims who just happen to stumble across this page, and voice their opinion without reading the templates which head this page. Baseball Bugs gave a succinct answer to a question that has driven many of those involved in this dispute to much worse actions. --Hojimachong^talk 01:12, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And since when does Islam forbid pictures "of any persons"? That would come as a shock to Al Jazeera, for example. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yathrib vs Medina

The article uses these two in various places. Perhaps it is more accurate to say 'Yathrib (now called Medina)' once and for all at it's first mention and then use 'Yathrib' afterwards. Thoughts ? MP ^{(talk•contribs)} 01:44, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please...

{{editprotected}} Please add an interwiki link for the Macedonian version. Thank you.

Done. MP ^{(talk•contribs)} 19:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad and Terrorism

A new section should be added to discuss the theme of Muhammad and Terrorism. There are many academic sources and whilst the debate might be heated it should be addressed in Wikipedia. --82.35.58.145 (talk) 11:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[1] C. (Colin) Turner, Islam: The Basics, Routledge Press, pp.34–35

[1]