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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Fainites (talk | contribs) at 23:28, 17 January 2009 (→Lady in the Lake trial). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Lady in the Lake trial

Nominator(s): J Milburn (talk)
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I'm nominating this article for featured article because it's been a good article for a while, and now that the appeal has failed, I don't think the story will develop much in the short term. I am willing to make fixes based on suggestions here, and feel that the article isn't too far from featured status is ready to go through FAC. J Milburn (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I've not read the article, but if by your own admission it is not yet up to FA standard, ("isn't too far from featured status"), then it has been brought here too soon. Peer review, not FAC, is the place for suggestions and fixes. It is a stated requirement for nomination (see above) that you ensure that when you bring an article here, it meets all the FA criteria. You should consider withdrawing and taking the article to PR. Brianboulton (talk) 00:33, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I understand what you are saying, but I don't think I really meant that. I meant that I don't see any reason why this could not be raised to featured status- another editor (with a few FAs under their belt) reccomended that I bring the article here some time ago, so I am acting on their judgement now I am sure the article is stable. J Milburn (talk) 16:51, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - All three images are fair use and, in my opinion, they satisfy WP:NFCC. Awadewit (talk) 16:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -

Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • The North West Evening Mail and News and Star websites are online copies of local newspaper articles- I occasionally read the Evening Mail, but I am outside the catchment zone of the News and Star. That said, I know all of them, if they appeared online (which they did) were published in the paper too. Inside Time is a magazine for prisoners, which (I assume) are online copies of hard-copy articles. What's the best way around the deadlinks? As for the Sandra Lean book, it has been discussed by reputable sources (Evening Mail, Evening News, and so on) and forms an interesting element of the case as a whole. Lean may not be well known, but her views are respected by the press and so I think we can consider her book a reliable source. Looking through the book, it seems legit- I work in a bookshop, so I see a lot of the "local history book" types with stickers on the back- this is printed professionally, cites all its sources in the bibliography and comes across as a (rather specialist) serious work of non-fiction, by someone who knows what they are writing about. The book is also recognised by Park's supporters, though was in no way written or influenced by them. MurderUK is probably not reliable- I put that down to the fact I wrote most of this article a while ago. Same with the italics- that's something I'm rather fussy about now. I'll see what I can do about that in a sec. J Milburn (talk) 22:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not questioning the reliability of thoses sites (only the murderuk.com site is questionable on reliablity) but was pointing out that the links do not work. They need to be repaired to work or the links need to be removed and the references fixed to point to print versions of the articles. And if the publisher for the Lean book is a self-publisher site, it's effectively a self-published work and needs to satisfy WP:SPS. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:53, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
MurderUK has been filtered out. Though I wasn't aware that No Smoke was self published, I would consider it reliable due to the recognition it has received from the press. I will look into getting hold of archived versions of those articles. J Milburn (talk) 23:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see that recognition in the press is an indicator of reliability. A self-published work can be a source about itself but is unlikely to be a reliable source otherwise.Fainites barleyscribs 23:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

  • Carol was said to time her periods away from home to coincide with the school term. School holidays?
  • Frequent commas after "and". Not BE.
    • Only one I can see is "home for another man, and, indeed, it would" and this is correct, "indeed" is placed in parethesis. (Or, what I call parenthesis; what Americans call parenthesis, I know as "brackets". I don't know the American term for my parethesis.) J Milburn (talk) 08:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It really needs a copy edit for punctuation and sentence construction.
Yeah I call 'em "brackets" too.
  • Despite the fact that Gordon owned a large yacht in 1997, in 1976, he owned a 505 racing dinghy, which he sold later that year needs rewording.
  • Park has three children[43]– Jeremy, who founded freegordon.com in support of his father,[14] and Rachael. Their mother was Carol.[5] Park's third child, Vanessa, was adopted by Gordon and Carol when she was 18 months old, after her mother, Christie, (who was Carol's sister) was murdered by her boyfriend in 1969, aged 17. is confusing and needs rewording.

Fainites barleyscribs 23:48, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • A number of quotations have single rather than double quote marks.
  • Some excessive wordiness and over-interpretation. Here Gordon claimed that she had left home for another man, and, indeed, it would seem that their relationship was turbulent, with Carol having left their home in Leece twice before for example. The source just says she'd left home twice before to live with her lover.
  • Parts of it still read as if the appeal was still pending. I have corrected the lead but the paragraph about the new evidence reads as if the new evidence used in the appeal were still awaited.
    • What are you referring to specifically? "His children, Jeremy and Rachael, appointed a new legal team in an attempt to find grounds for appeal." still sounds OK to me, and nothing else really mentions the appeal. J Milburn (talk) 17:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fainites barleyscribs 14:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rob Rode, Parks' solicitor, hopes to hear from Manchester Crown Court on whether the grounds for appeal are strong enough for it to be taken to the Court of Appeal in London and It has not been revealed what the new evidence is,[21] only that it "was not available at the original trial for example. Fainites barleyscribs 18:43, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hah, showed me. Fixed. J Milburn (talk) 20:24, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Under "Witnesses". It has also been said that Park had never actually met Wainwright. Actually the source used says Park claimed he had no recollection of meeting Wainright. Not the same thing.
  • I think the article ought to mention that one of the children - Vanessa - was a witness for the prosecution. At the moment the article gives the impression that the divide is between Prices children and the victims family.
  • I have read the judges summing up. The section in the article about the evidence concerning the piece of rock and the slate is not accurate and is presented in a way that does not do justice to either the finding of the rock or the forensic evidence. I think the judges summing up of the evidence would in general be a better source for the evidence than newspaper reports. Theres a number of parts where the article says things like "its said by some" or "it has been said" when this derives from newspaper articles. Whilst it is true that a judges summing up does not repeat all the evidence, it does cover it pretty thoroughly. Newspaper reports can add to this but at the moment the points emphasised appear rather selective.Fainites barleyscribs 22:55, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment. Is there no better image of Carol Park? The one currently in use is of exceedingly poor quality; it doesn't really show her face, even. NSR77 T 00:36, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not really- this is one of the few I have seen, and is certainly one of the most widely used. There's this one, but that is not used outside the Freegordon website. Would we still have a valid claim of fair use, do you think? In fact, I think I will contact Jeremy Park and ask for permission to use the images on the website. J Milburn (talk) 08:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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