User talk:JShook

Welcome!

Hi JShook! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.

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Happy editing! Amren ^(talk) 21:01, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your photos

Gidday, just wanted to say that I really like your photos. We have a New Zealand portal page which has a new featured article and featured picture each week, and I've put several pictures of yours in the queue, starting next Sunday. Look at the talk page of the portal for the upcoming pictures and articles.-gadfium 23:06, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've been adding them more or less in the order I took them, so next it's on to East Cape and south from there. Ending up in Waitomo several weeks later. Next year I'll be snapping away on The South Island.JShook 23:09, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, if you have broadband, you can see lots of photos at http://www.jshook.com/nz05/

How to delete photos

You mentioned on the new user page that you wanted to delete photos (and if you upload a bunch you should learn this anyway). Media cannot be deleted without administrator privileges (sorry, can't help you there). Check out this link. HereToHelp 01:12, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that link. I already heard from another person that I could use a different method ( {{deletebecause|reason for deletion}} ) which got them deleted right away. The instructions on the page for which you gave me the link are more complete and cover all reasons for deletion (I was just deleting my own photos because I had found a better version.) I have bookmarked the page. Thank you for responding. JShook | Talk 11:47, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

About your images

(This is copied from my response to your post on the Help Desk. DES ^(talk) 23:42, 15 October 2005 (UTC))[reply]

Under the GFDL you retain the image copyright, but you grant a permenant, world-wide, non-revocable licence to anyone to use the image (the same applies to any text you write and post) provided that such use complies with the GFDL which basically means that proper credit must be provided, and free access must be given. You retain the copyright, but you effectively give anyone anywhere the right to reproduce or modify the image, and use it in any publication -- provided that publication is released under the GFDL. When you upload content there is boilerplate that says you are releasing any content for which you hold copyright under the GFDL -- this applies unless you made it very clear that you did not grant this licence. Simply saying "I retain copyright" does not do that, since a GFDL uploader retains copyright.

However, if you upload a lower res version of each such image under a different file name, replace the uses in articles of the high-res with the lower res versions, and place a note on the talk page of the high res version requesting deletion, you may get it. If you do this and send me a note with links to the images involved on my talk page, I will see what I can do to assist you. I am an admin. DES ^(talk) 23:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You responded, in part: (Later...) OK, now I get it. Duh.

"Orphan" the existing image page by uploading a copy of the same image with a different name, and point the reference in the article to the image with the new name. Once that is done, the current image will be pointing to no pages. I can then mark the image for deletion as redundant, and--I'm making a big guess here--all of the previous versions of the image will be deleted at the same time. I.e., all images listed on a graphics page will be deleted when the page itself is deleted.

Yes?

How do I guarantee that The Powers That Be will consent to having the (now old) image deleted?

Yes exactly. You get it. That is the route to take, IMO. And I cannot guarentee that the higher resolution versions will then be deleted. Once content has been validly added, it requires community consensus to delete it entirely -- which is what you are asking for. Note that this descision is not made by "the powers that be" it is made by the entire wikipedia community -- or whichever members choose to express an opnion when the images are listed on the image deletion page. You get to express your opnion, I get to express mine, and anyone else who choses gets to express his or hers. If you can convince enough of those who see the image deletion discussion that it would be the right thing to delete the higher resolution versions, then they will be deleted. Otherwise not. And your vote will count as much as anyone's. So will mine, no more, no less.

As an admin, I have the power to simply unilaterally delete the images, but that would violate wikipedia policy, which i promised to uphold as a condition of becoming an admin, so i won't do that. What I can and will do is join the deletion debate, and help present arguments in favor of deletion, ones that I think will be likely to be listened to there. IF, that is, the images have already been repalced by lower-res versions still suitable for illustrating the relevant articles.

When you uploaded the images, you agreed to give wikipedia and through wikipedia, anyone in the world, the right to use those images, provided that they did so in compliance with the GFDL. You may not have fully realized it, but that is what you did, and you don't have the right to simply take back that gift now.

However i think you have a reasonable case to substitute the lower res images, and have us accept those as a replacement. I think and hope that teh wikipedia community will chose to do the right thing in this case, whatever the legal rights involved. (I am assuming the accuracy of the account you posted on the help desk, of course.)

By the way, you mentioned the use of the {{db}} tag. this is a request for speedy deletion. It only appluies to pages that meet a fairly strict set of criteria detailed here. From your description i don't think these images qualify for that, but if you think they do you can place db with an explanation of why on the image page. Note that you can't ans for just the older versions to be deleted -- the image page with all its versions is deleted in such a case.

I hope you choose to continue to contribute to wikipedia. But you should clearly understand from now on that when you post text or upload images, you are permitting anyone to use or change that text and those images, and this is not a permission you can retract later.

I hope this has been helpful to you. If you have more questions, Feel free to sk and I will try to respond as promptly as I can, or refer you to soemone else if I don't know the answer.

If you follow my adviace, and want me to join the deletion discussion when you propose the high-res images for deleteion, notify me on my talk page when you have listed them on WP:IFD. DES ^(talk) 03:52, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Another user's comments on your help desk request

(Copied from the help desk)

I think we should respect this user's wishes and delete the high-res versions; obviously he doesn't want them here. Yes, he technically released the large ones, but we can keep the high-res images against his wishes and alienate a contributor who has enthusiasm for the project and may well continue to contribute the smaller images (and he has contributed quite a few), or we can delete them, and keep the smaller but still quite good and suitable for most uses versions. Frankly I think it doesn't matter whether we're legally allowed to keep them or not; what's the right thing to do in this case? (I don't see these on IfD yet; has someone listed them already? An explanatory note that the listing applies to only the high-res versions should suffice.)Mindspillage (spill yours?) 04:23, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I concur. I was the user who first suggested he put {{db}} tags on images he no longer wanted on Wikipedia, since at that point the images had never been displayed on a page and it seemed simpler than going through IFD. I didn't want to delete his images myself, as I'm not normally involved in image deletion. Now, IFD is more appropriate, but I will support any request from JShook to delete his images.

JShook, I hope you will continue to contribute your images to Wikipedia with whatever resolution you wish; you're a talented photographer and both Wikipedia and the public benefit from your contributions. I regret that others have offended you with narrow interpretations of the licenses for your images; well meaning Wikipedians wish to keep your support and contributions.-gadfium 08:17, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your trial ballon

It looks to me as if you had done everything correctly, and i expect this will work. The instructions on WP:IFD say: "Images that have been listed for more than 5 days are eligible for deletion if either a consensus to do so has been reached or no objections to deletion have been raised." this means that they stay listed for 5 days. No particular number of votes is required. after 5 days an admin will look through the discussion. If everyone or the greater part of those who comment favor deletion, the admin will delete the image and log the discussion. If serious arguments are raised against deltetion, the admin will look at both the number and the arguments. In general if 2/3 or more of those who comment favor deletion that will be considered a consensus for deeltion, but it is not strictly a matter of counting votes. the closing admin will also consider the quality of the arguments made by each person who comments, and whether any objections raist to deletion have been reasonably answered. In this case i expect it to go your way. You can proceed with the rest of your images whenever you wish -- you can do them all at omce if you choose.

Next time it will same me a bit of time if you include the name of the image being proposed for deltion in your note to me, preferably in the form of a wikilink (like this [[:Image:Auckland Ferry Terminal.jpg]] -- which produces Image:Auckland Ferry Terminal.jpg). I'm glad to have been of some help. DES ^(talk) 23:00, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Followup -- this looks on track for deletion. So far everyone who has commented is in favor of deletion. DES ^(talk) 14:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your problems with wikipedia

You mention the problem that when you uploaded a new version of an image, the old was not replaced. In a sense it was, the new version becaue "the" image under that name and would be the version used in articles linking to that name. The problemn is that for any edit, not just uploads, wikipedia retains all prior versions of the page unless the entire page is deleted, or unusual manipulations of the database are made. This is what enables the history tab and the revert feature, and it is how all wikis workj. it is different from the way most other computer systems work, and i am very sorry that you were confused by it.

You indiacted tha wikipedia's help pages were not particualrly helpful to you. The help pages, like the reast of wikipedia, are freely editable. You can simply make changes to them, or if you don't feel comfy doing that, or don't want to take the time, please leavbe me a note indiacting as precisely as you can what page or pages were not helpful, and what info those pages failed to supply or how they were confusing. I'll dio what I can to improve them. Wikipedia is definately a work in progress.

Thank you again for your contributions. DES ^(talk) 23:23, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Help system issues

I understand your frustration. There is to some extent an assumption the people won't be trying some things, like listing images for deletion, or creating non-default sigs (even though a talk page link is som much better that it should be the default) until they have been here long enough to have a fair understanding of wiki-markup, transclusion, and how wikipedia works generally. This is partly because the help pages, like all pages here, are written piecemeal by volunteers.

If you search on any target, at the bottom of the results page is an "advanced search" which allows you to repeat your search, or to conduct a different search, and to select what name spaces your search will cover. One of the availabe namespaces is Help. Another is Help Talk, that is pages where people have made comments about help pages and how they could be improved. Also, in your preferences, you cna change which namespace the basic "search" searches by default. I hope this is some help. DES ^(talk) 14:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you search on any text (such as "test"), at the bottom of the result page (you will probably need to scroll down) is an area with another search box and a series of check boxes. I thought that at one time this was labelled "Advanced search" but the text near by is now "Search in namespaces". You can check the namespaces in whiuch you wnat the search to be conducted.

The "namespace" is simply the prefix before the page name. The Main or article namespace is composed of pages with no prefix at all. The talk namespace is composed of those pages with names that begin "Talk:". Those pages are used to discuss articels. The User namespace is composed of those pages with names that begin "User:" such as User:JShook. These pages are used to describe users. The User talk namespace is composed of pages that begin "User Talk:" like this page. It is used for communication among users. The Wikipedia namespace and Wikipedia Talk namespace is used for policy statments, guidelines, proposals, administrative pages, Help fora (like the Help desk) and for pages that discuss these. and the Help namespace consists of pages whose titles start with "Help:" it is is where most of the help pages are. many programming languages have some concept of namespace, so this was a familure idea to the first users, i suspect. It probably is something we should explain more clearly.

In any case, by using the checkboxes you can conduct a search in the help and help talk namespaces. Doing this led me to the page Help:Preferences, which in turn linked to the page Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages#Customizing your signature via Wikipedia:Username#Signatures. Do you think the explantaions on those pages are unclear? A separate issue is how to make those pages easier for people to find. DES ^(talk) 16:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image comment

File:Whakatane Harbour n.jpg

File:Whanganui River n.jpg

These images are first rate. Thank you. -Walter Siegmund 22:06, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. The Whakatane photo could really be just about anywhere. But the only other pictures I had of Whakatane were either more sunsets or ones of a pub/hotel. So I fugured this one at least told you that the town was near the sea. The Whanganui River picture was taken after an exhasuting three-hour drive along the Whanganui river road. I was just so relieved to be off the winding, hilly and rock-strewn unsealed road that I took a look back and that's what I saw. JShook | Talk 13:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fumarole or fumerole?

A while ago I changed the caption of the left photo in Fumarole to "fumaroles" since that is how the word is spelled in the title of the article and in the article body (as well as in my dictionary.) You changed it back to "fumeroles." Why?

JShook | Talk 13:30, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You changed the spelling of the image name. Wikipedia thus could not find an image by that name and did not display the image. (SEWilco 20:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC))[reply]

new license templates

I recently created {{Limited Use}} and {{Limited Use-person}}, inspired in part by the problems you had with images. You might want to look them over and see if these would be licenses you would wish to use on images you upload in future.

However, another editor has proposed that {{Limited Use}} be deleted, and in effect that such a limited license not be permitted. Discussion on this is taking place at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Limited Use. Your views might be relevant in view of your experience here. DES ^(talk) 19:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"information wants to be free"

I noticed you used this phrase in your recent posting at Templates for Deletion on the Limited Use template - I can't offer any advice with copyright issues, but I would like to know if you happen to know the origin of that phrase, I've been trying to track down its source recently. Thanks, stillnotelf has a talk page 04:20, 29 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]