Talk:Emancipation of minors

Would like to add external link

U.S. Age of Majority Table this site has several guides to emancipation in different states, and has a nice table that shows age of majority for those states. Pending no objection in one week will add link... --69.251.192.171 (talk) 23:43, 9 January 2008 (UTC) Link Added...--69.251.192.171 (talk) 22:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Stub for Laws by Country

Added a section stub notice to the Laws by Country sectiom. This section is evidently incomplete as it clearly states that the section should cover other countries, but only currently covers two states, both in the USA. I also believe the whole article to be a stub, and therefore will add a whole article stub notice under the International Law category

This really has nothing to do with International Law, it's Family Law. I removed the Intl Law category designation.

California Question!

"In Californian law, the minor must be at least 14, be living apart from his/her parents, and be proven to have the means to support him/herself. An emancipated minor has the ability to legally sign for himself/herself, something a normal minor cannot do."

Is this accurate, and is it as simple as this or does the minor need any other reasons or comply with other conditions. Igorndhaswog 00:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

"In Illinois the requirments for most things is seventeen years of age do I need to be emancipated at seventeen or are the respects of leaving appropriate. In other words can I up and leave like a typical eighteen year old if I'm not happy with my family's way of living. Suppose i work 30 hours a week and get passing grades in school, if i can afford it then why can't I? I guess what I'm trying to ask is can we leave at seventeen?" Anonymous 00:00, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

DON'T GET IT

Emancipation. Emanacipation! Whatever. Nobody can offer information on this subject to me. I always rely on Wikipedia to give me all this great information. Ive searched everywhere for information, Councilers, teachers, police officers, web pages, librarys and every where elese. Why is this topic not out there? Is our government afraid of too many minors being granted this right? If anyone has any information regarting minor imacipation, especialy in the states of arkansas and missouri, please post information here. Share information and help make some lifes better. Pecas --68.46.245.35 02:47, 14 April 2007 (UTC)Angel

• Unfortunately, Arkansas and Missouri don't have emancipation laws.. Meaning that they don't offer emancipation. It is not impossible to break new legal ground however it is close to it... ~~----
• I was emancipated by court order in the state of Virginia at age 17, back in February of 2007. So, I'm very familiar with the emancipation process. I've edited the article, and I'm happy to answer any questions you have.Piercetheorganist

Not true. Emancipation in Missouri exists for minors as young as 17. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.47.159.147 (talk) 07:23, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Rights

The article says that in most cases, emancipated minors have the same rights as adults in regard to purchasing tobacco, pornography, lottery tickets, and firearms. I was under the impression that to buy these things, you had to be a certain age. I thought that the law specifically said that you had to be 18 or 21 to do these things. I even asked my law studies teacher about it, and he said that the age restrictions would probably still apply, even if a minor was emanicpated. Could someone please clarify this for me? Emperor001 20:45, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

• Clarification: the article as I, an emancipated minor, rewrote it said "...excluding...". The moron at 209.247.21.237 vandalized it. I've changed it back. You are correct, all ATF laws still apply. Emancipation only relates to matters of consent and matters of finances--it allows you to live essentially an adult life...work, sign contracts, seek healthcare, etc.

What about things like watching R-rated movies that a minor can only due if a partent consents? Also, what about signatures that schools make students get on progess reports? Can an emancipated minor sign his/her own progress report? Emperor001 23:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you can sign your own progress reports. You can sign anything--all legal documents (i.e. legal papers, medical consent forms, armed forces sign-up forms, financial documents, etc.). In that respect, you have absolutely the exact same rights as an adult. There is nothing you cannot legally sign on your own. Piercetheorganist 23:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

R-rated movies? Yes, you're allowed to, because you are your own guardian (same as an adult) and can therefore decide what you will and will not expose yourself to. Some states issue you an emancipated minor ID card, which would make it a lot easter getting past the ticket booth if they card you. Personally, I never had an problem, but unless you can show them some sort of state-issue emancipated minor ID they probably aren't going to let you in under 18. Really, that kind of stuff isn't addressed by the legal system, because kids that are in a position to be emancipated are kids who are very serious about needing to work and go to high school and try to put themselves thru college. Emancipated minors typically aren't rich trust-fund babies who have the time and money to be able to afford to kick back and go watch R-rated movies. Most emancipated minors work several jobs to pay rent, etc., cuz they leave home with $0.00; like my attorney said about the rarity of emancipations: "no judge in his/her right mind is going to emancipate a kid with a big trust fund; emancipated minors are expected to be hard workers and keep a low profile...not move out, buy a nice car, blast death metal till 4 AM, consume alcohol and illicit drugs, etc." Refer to the part of the article which says "On the other end of the spectrum are minors who are seeking emancipation for superficial reasons, such as not being pleased with their parent's/guardian's rules. In those cases, the emancipation will most likely be denied." -- emancipation isn't for "we just can't get along; everyone's always yelling at everyone else all the time; I hate being told what to do, I want to be able to say how drunk I can get and how late I can stay out; rules suck; I hate my parents; etc."...emancipation is for "there is a solidly-documented and ongoing situation of emotional/verbal abuse in the household, and I've proven by working hard, steady jobs for several years that I can fully support myself financially and that I am a responsible and law-abiding person who can and will contribute to society and maintain a low profile". Basically, you need to prove to the judge that you can and will support yourself, that you won't give the police or other citizens any trouble, that you won't end up on welfare, that you're insanely mature and calm, that this is the right thing for you beyond the shadow of a doubt, etc. In other words, you basically need to be Jesus and Draco needs to be your dad. Piercetheorganist 23:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I am a older sister... 67.181.70.28 06:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I have removed your post because it is extremely not appropriate to put that on Wikipedia. This talk page is for discussions about the writing of the article only. You're seeking legal strategies and advice, and it sounds like you need counseling. Not only is it dangerous for you post something like that here, it is also inappropriate, and it is dangerous for Wikipedia and anyone who gives you legal advice. PLEASE get the help you need, but get it from the correct forum--go to a lawyer and a counselor, not a Wikipedia talk page. There are plenty of accredited free online legal resources for people in crisis, where you can speak to actual lawyers who can give you sound legal advice and help protect you. Piercetheorganist 23:39, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

In ohio it's illegal to legally emancipate yourself, and I see a lot of people going through hard times that need this right, but it's forbidden. I don't understand that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.27.141.33 (talk) 03:05, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Middle ground

"Emancipations are rarely granted, because of the narrowness of the definition of "best interest". On one end of the spectrum are minors who have been victims of abuse; in most cases, the state's department of child services is notified and the child is placed in foster care. On the other end of the spectrum are minors who are seeking emancipation for superficial reasons, such as not being pleased with their parent's/guardian's rules. In those cases, the emancipation will most likely be denied."

Why doesn't this article describe middle ground such as a (hypothetical) minor's guardian dies and the next legal guardian lives somewhat far away and the minor requests to get emancipated? Would it be at all possible to get emancipated in such a case?

Overall, this article is a good start, but I think it could describe more, unless there really is so little info on it. LtDonny 18:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

You hit the nail on the head, LtDonny -- there is very little information available on the topic. I speak from experience, as I was emancipated. If you read the actual text of the emancipation statute in states which have one, you'll notice that it's one of the most archaic laws on the book, as child/family laws go -- emancipation was originally developed for children who needed to leave home in order to move elsewhere and work so that they could support their families -- it goes back to the 1800s, to the days where rural areas were largely poverty-stricken and the best shot you had of a paying job (and, in many cases, getting an education) was to go apprentice yourself to a tradesman in a more urbanized area. Bear in mind that the man to whom you were apprenticed was your master and he quartered you and apprenticed you in exchange for your hard work. Learning a trade was your only shot at moving up in the world -- i.e. being able to support yourself and send money back home to your family to support them. In that sense, it is somewhat similar to the way in which illegal immigration functions today. It is only recently (i.e. within the last 30 years or so) that emancipation has been used to free mature minors from abusive/alcoholic/dysfunctional homes. That said, it is used so very very rarely -- consider the number of teenagers who hate their parents' rules and think they could do just fine on their own (probably most teenagers), versus the number who get emancipated, or even know what emancipation is (very very few). Unfortunately there are no statistics available (to the best of my knowledge and research) as to the exact numbers of emancipations throughout recent history, and that speaks to the fact that it is a largely-unknown, little-used legal mechanism. I know that when I was emancipated (in a not-so-rural area of northern Virginia), I was the first emancipatee in 24 years in that county. Some states don't even have an emancipation law on the books. So the article, as I and others have written it, seems to contain all the readily-available information on the subject of emancipation -- the websites referenced are the only ones which seem to contain any kind of info/data on the topic. Piercetheorganist 07:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

As to the question you asked ("Why doesn't this article describe middle ground such as a (hypothetical) minor's guardian dies and the next legal guardian lives somewhat far away and the minor requests to get emancipated? Would it be at all possible to get emancipated in such a case?"): the answer is maybe. The basis for granting an emancipation is whether or not the minor can prove to a judge, beyond reasonable doubt, the he/she is capable of living on his/her own -- being able to function in society as a contributor (pay taxes, follow laws, hold a job, etc.). So the minor needs to demonstrate that they are calm, mature, reasonably intelligent, familiar with the basic laws of our society, that they have a steady paying job and a place of their own to live, that they have a clean track record as far as infractions with the law are concerned, and that they generally will be a contributor to society rather than an obnoxious, arrogant punk kid who's going to go to parties and get drunk and high, and blast loud music, and drive over the speed limit, and be generally disrespectful. So basically you have to convince the judge that you're an adult even though your age isn't quite there yet. In some cases, there is a genuine need to remove you from a dysfunctional household, but the judge won't believe that you're mature/experienced enough to function on your own, in which case the state's children's services department will be called in to devise a suitable living situation (usually a foster home). Piercetheorganist 07:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

USA bias

I think this article is not particularly encyclopaedic! Why is there no section on emancipation in other countries apart from America? Contrary to popular belief there is a world outside of the USA!! 131.111.195.8 (talk) 00:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

That's what the {{Globalise/USA}} tag is for, and since I agree with you I've added it to this article. I've also put a {{fact}} tag next to the assertion that emancipation is possible in "most countries", since I think that requires proof. Incidentally, a Google search for "emancipation of minors" among .uk sites only gives ZERO hits, and I (from the UK) have never heard the phrase used outside an American context. It is not, as the article and many of the Talk page comments seem to assume, an everyday subject for everyone. Loganberry (Talk) 14:36, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I've contributed very substantially to this article, because I was emancipated this time last year and so have quite a bit of personal experience with the topic. My intents here have been in good faith, and I consider all the knowledge I've contributed to be spot-on encyclopedic. What's NOT encyclopedic is making comments here such as "Contrary to popular belief there is a world outside of the USA!!" -- again, I feel that I've worked very hard here in good faith, and I do resent that you (131.111.195.8) have assumed otherwise...and, furthermore, been so arrogant as to inject your personal anti-USA political views into this. THAT SAID -- I do agree that this article is overall specific to the emancipation process in the United States. That's the case simply because I, as an American emancipated in the USA, simply have no experience with which to write about emancipation in other countries. It's not some sort of conspiracy to edge out knowledge pertaining to other nations -- it's simply that I, the main contributor, have a lack of knowledge thereof. If you, or another foreign national, DO have verifiable encyclopedic knowledge to contribute on the topic of emancipation: then please, by all means, do so! I agree that the article would benefit from it. But please, in your future dealings, assume good faith rather than come in with anti-USA attacks. Mr. P. S. Phillips (talk) 02:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Read all about it! Wikipedia has brand new NPOV and civility guidelines. Oh wait, they've been there for ages. Huh, perhaps certain users should read them and stop looking like a dick. --Pumpmeup 16:10, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Something about that sounds inherently self-contradictory/hypocritical. I think it's the sarcasm and the use of words like "dick" as adjectives to describe people. I don't see a lot of good faith there, nor benefit to this article. This article is good so far, but does need some work. Perhaps you have something useful and neutral to contribute to it, in good faith? Mr. P. S. Phillips (talk) 17:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Age of consent exception

The article describes that an emancipated minor can do anything an adult can do with a list of exceptions that take effect at age 18 on average. This is US biased as mentioned above, since it is 19 for smoking and drinking in Canada (not to mention, 21 for drinking in the US, not 18, this is not mentioned). But anyway, age of legal consent for sexual activity is another concern. Usually age of consent is equal to or less than the age of majority (18ish) meaning all adults have this ability. However, if a minor is emancipated before reaching the age of legal majority, they would be unable to have sex just as they would be unable to drink and stuff. I am unsure just how early it is possible for some minors to become emancipated, but this is probably noteworthy. While fiction is not relevant, Bart Simpson, would be a good example of someone emancipated (in fiction) who is below the age of consent. Tyciol (talk) 10:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Didn't the apologists/screenwriters for The Simpson's say that Bart didn't do ... that ... ? Or were you implying something else? But back on subject, an emancipated minor can have sex but only with another emancipated minor that is not legally of age and is within the other minor's "age range" (e.g. 14-15, 16-17, 18+). But, if the significant other is not of age and is NOT emancipated, then that would be deemed illegal and the emancipated minor will be charged like an adult, but will be charged for having sex with a minor, not underaged sex (because it is not an age problem but a responsibility one in this case only). The sig. other will be charged for underaged sex but will be treated as a minor. Hehe I found a loophole in the law :)Techdawg667 (talk) 02:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Please help a parent

I have read all the discussions and definitions for Emancipation but what about parents? I admit to being to getting a girl pregnant early in my 20's. We discussed it and I agreed to pay money every month, do all the fatherly things, and buy her a car when she turned 16- if- the mom agreed to let me see my daughter, get report cards, and do the general raising.

Now, my daughter is 17, I have gotten one report card her entire school time and my visits have stopped. Recently she dropped out of school, got pregnant and NOW they are taking me to court saying I didn't keep my end of the deal because I didn't buy her a car and I don't pay them enough.

Do I have any rights to have her emancipated since she has made adult decisions? Why less than a year before she turns 18 is the court getting involved? Any help would be great- we live in Missouri if that helps.