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In England, his name was registered with the FA as Georgiou, and Georgiou is the name which was used on official listings (i.e. Manchester City squadlists). It is how he is most commonly known in English (other than by the truncation Gio), and is therefore the correct title for the English language wikipedia. Oldelpaso11:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That has some what of a Romanian connotation, there is no such name in Georgian and there is an apt English equivelent, his name is Georgi, pronounced Gey-org-ee.
"A playmaker..." - I know what this is, does the non-expert?
"...spectacular goals made him a cult hero..." - verging on peacock, in my opinion.
"Mretebi Tbilisi" - "the first official professional club in the Soviet Union" - citation required plus I'd create the article too if the club is notable as such.
"mtiulur" - I'd italicise it, it's a strange word and if no wiki-link exists then perhaps it's worth making sure it's clearly a foreign expression.
"...1993, the Tbilisi management sought to put their players in a more stable environment. Kinkladze, with two others, was sent on loan to Saarbrucken in Germany." - needs citation. Presumably it's the Perfect 10 book, but assertions about the height of the Georgian conflict need other, independent citation.
Saarbrucken has an umlaut in the infobox and not in the text. Consistency required.
"In 2003 the goal was voted "Best ever Maine Road goal" in a poll of Manchester City fans." - citation required.
"bizarre one" - NPOV.
" The First Division had a reputation for a more physical approach than the Premier League." - cite.
"which at the time made him the highest paid player in the club's history." - cite.
" unaffordable luxury" - cite.
"notorious" - cite, unless that's in the book.
"calamitous defending including a freak own goal" - NPOV.
"City no longer controlled their own fate, and were relegated for the second time in three seasons despite a final day win against Stoke City." - cite.
"...turned sour..." - NPOV.
"...on 28 November." - new section so complete date with year and wikilink.
[41] needs to be placed per WP:CITE. I'd put all three citations at the end of the sentence.
Most of the way there now. Notes on specific points:
Mretebi: I would create it, but decent sources in English are hard to come by, and I don't like creating substubs.
thrashed: Neville Southall uses "murdered" when quoted in Perfect 10, not wanting to use "murdered" I used "thrashed" as an alternative.
firmly established as the star player: the flippant response to this would be "he was playing alongside Steve Lomas and Gerry Creaney". This is one of those that can prove difficult. Depicting the extraordinary level of adulation Kinkladze received at City can result in giving a fawning impression if not done carefully, toning it down too much can remove colour. I've attempted to reword it.
particularly spectacular: I've removed the "cheekily" but if it won Goal of the Month I think it stands to reason that it was particularly spectacular.
Bizzare one: Five managers in five months is almost without precedent in English football. I've changed it to "turbulent", is that better?
Highest paid player - a frustrating one as I absolutely know it to be true, but my sources do not mention it explicitly, merely inferring it indirectly. If only online newspaper archives went back a year or two more. But, verifiability not truth means it goes.
unaffordable luxury: The term is mine rather than one from a ref, but it is used by way of summary. Both Perfect 10 and Blue Moon Rising go into the relationship between Royle and Kinkladze at length. Having already used a quote from Royle I think a second quote would be excessive, and "Royle viewed Kinkladze as an unaffordable luxury" sums up the picture portrayed by both books.
"notorious": I'm almost tempted to respond with "But its Vinnie Jones", but omitting the word doesn't reduce the weight of the sentence by much, so removed. Incidentally, I night have to put Jones' article on my to-do list, it could do with a facelift. Oldelpaso (talk) 11:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Kinkladze Georgi (Georgia). 06 July 1973. Midfielder. Played for Georgian teams Mretebi Tbilisi (1990 - 1991/1992, 80 games, 18 goals) and Dinamo Tbilisi (1992/1993-1994/1995, 65 games, 41 goal), German FC Saarbrücken (1993/1994, 11 games), English Manchester City (1995/1996-1998/1999, 106 games, 20 goals), Dutch Ajax Amsterdam (1998/1999, 12 games), English Derby County (1999/2000, 17 games, 1 goal). Dutch Cup holder - 1999. Best footballer of Georgia - 1993, 1996. Played in 37 games and scored 7 goals for Georgian national team from 1992 to 1999. One of the best Georgian footballers at the close of XX century.
[1]
^Savin, Aleksandr (2001). Igroki, trenery, sudyi: Spravochno-biograficheskiy slovar. Istoriya futbola (in Russian). Terra-Sport, Olimpiya Press. p. 266. ISBN5-93127-139-2.
Should I go ahead and change pre-MC stats in the article in accordance with this, as it's the most plausible version? Jhony20:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Derby stats from Soccerbase: 1999-2000: League 17 (1), FA Cup 1 (0). 2000-01 League 24 (1), FA Cup 1 (0), League Cup 2 (0). 2001-02 League 24 (1), League Cup 1 (1). 2002-03 League 28 (4) FA Cup 1 (0) League Cup 1 (0). Oldelpaso (talk) 17:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm planning on trimming some more of the match commentary from the Rubin section, as it is much more detail given than the sections for the other clubs
I think some of the coverage of transfer speculation (Galatasaray, Liverpool) should be removed. Transfer speculation in newspapers is frequently unreliable, so I don't think we should rely upon it. Oldelpaso (talk) 18:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(about match commentary) Maybe, I thought about it too. I hope it will positively affect the quality.
(about transfers) Disagree here, it depends on the case, really. In case of Liverpool, ref just says "according to Kinkladze", not quoting what exactly he said, so I'm not against the removal there. But case of Galatasaray is surely not a speculation, as ref contains Kinkladze's direct speech: "Представители турецкого клуба ведут переговоры с руководством "Дерби" и моим агентом Бенешем, - заявил Георгий. - Однако еще ничего не подписано. Единственное, что я знаю наверняка, это то, что я очень хотел бы остаться и играть за "Дерби"." (translation - "Representatives of the Turkish club are in talks with Derby's directors and my agent Benes, - said Georgi. - However nothing is signed at the moment. The only thing that I know for sure is my desire to remain and play for Derby") By the way, using |quote= to provide ref with English translation is probably a good idea in such cases. Jhony20:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally it was you who added some part of that "transfer speculation" to the article. :) (I mean "In September 1999 he held transfer talks with Sheffield United, but no move materialised.") Jhony20:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Galatasaray one surprised me, as it isn't mentioned in "Kinkladze: The Perfect 10", which for that part of his career is exhaustive in most other respects. But then I found [2]. It is difficult to separate the genuine attempts to sign him from those that are just bluster from his agent. Oldelpaso (talk) 22:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So, as far as I understand, you are not against keeping Galatasaray fragment in the article. By the way, this BBC link is about Galatasaray's second attempt to sign him in January 2003, while ref in Russian describes their first attempt in summer 2002. Jhony19:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to change Seba back to Saba, as Saba is an ancient Georgian name, while Seba is not (I can support this with sources in Russian, but I doubt they will be helpful). "Perfect 10" may be inaccurate in spelling of Georgian names ("Robizon" is another example of it). Jhony19:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
