User talk:Wikidemon

xrxty

Check the contributions list of Special:Contributions/72.192.216.42

Dominant culture

Sorry for editing right on top of you. I saw this article pop up on my watch list and I did some editing, but I hope I didn't cause a bunch of frustrating edit conflicts.

I think mentioning assimilation and a section on the advantages and disadvantages (if you will) of having a dominant culture would be good. For example there are arguments in favor of one language to smooth communications, business etc and to limit misunderstandings and complexities. I suppose there is overlap with the multiculturalism and multicultural articles which I haven't looked at. Also, are you going to organize it nation by nation or keep it general? For example once it's internationalized discussing the dominant culture in various countries (Saudi Arabia and India for example) or even regions of nations (the dominant culture in the deep south is quite different from San Francisco and New York City) might be interesting. I guess it's a pretty wide open topic. I think it's interesting. Good job creating it. I actually have culture gap on my article to do list. Also there are political dimensions where a Democracy passes laws by majority, authoritarians impose cultural dominance and communist and socialist societies have often tried to subvert cultural expression like religion all together. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:54, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

No prob... It's a really big subject that's probably beyond my ability and knowledge to do a great job with. I'm aware of but not terribly familiar with it, and there's lots of literature. 500k+ google hits for the term itself.[1] My exposure has been with groups in the US who describe their own efforts to come to grips with being party to two or more cultures simultaneously. Some of the articles I started to read in order to research this made a distinction between assimilation versus acculturation or opposition. Others made a distinction between multicultural contemporary societies such as America and modern Europe, where cultural domination becomes an issue, and monolithic historical societies like Japan, where there is only one culture to begin with (although I doubt that any society is truly monolithic like that). I suspect the issue comes up everywhere in the world, although I don't know whether this particular way of looking at it is a new or an old thing, or is international or just local to America. Wikidemon (talk) 21:12, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Indeed there's the academic interest with all the theorizing and semantic minutae that entails, and the mainstream significance as the issues of cultural dominance are dealt with in the real world. I prefer clarity and practicality of the real world issues rather than the ivory tower debates, a position that isn't always appreciated by other Wikipedians :) I had a look at the multiculralism article and it's a nightmare of all kinds of unsupported and unbalanced assertions. The idea of Europe or even Japan as "monoloithic" is an oversimplification and is an academic construct (as you noted). Certainly some cultures are more diverse than others, and there are difference types of diversity (religious, ethnic, economic, cultural, linguistic). Are you okay with a country by country discussion? Otherwise I suppose we can try to keep it general and use examples, but I think that may be more difficult. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:25, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. I think a country by country discussion is best for now while the article is new, and we'll see if something coalesces out of that. If we try for a global perspective from the start that might be elusive, and promise to the reader more than the article really delivers. Wikidemon (talk) 08:58, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

vinegar, or reliable sources?

• Hi Wikidemon. You're gaming procedural rules as a means of throwing over WP:RS. I may have a little vinegar in my comments; you have censorship in your actions. Good luck with that. :-) Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)} 02:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

For goodness sake. Wikidemon (talk) 02:40, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I guess I've expressed myself; I'll leave you alone now. :-) So last posting here. Please do read WT:DTTR in your spare time, though; this "warning" crap is the precise equivalent of a template. Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)}

It was a personalized notice. Rather than responding that it is crap you might want to consider the substance of my caution to you regarding civility, personal attacks, and edit warring, which as a regular you must know can lead to administrative intervention. Wikidemon (talk) 03:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Please don't remove comments from talk pages

I know these things have a tendency to get heated, but removing or refactoring the comments of others remains something of a no-no. Ray (talk) 02:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I was about to say the same thing. You cannot decide these things as a one person police force. —Mattisse (Talk) 03:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually I can. Inappropriate comments are deleted all the time from talk pages, and there's zero justification for that one. It's a cut and paste of a pointless but provocative accusation of Wikigaming the editor already left on my talk page, had nothing to do with improving the guideline, and was a simple personal attack on me. There is no sense in duplicating these kinds of things "for the record" in the middle of a consensus discussion. Removing it is better than alternatives, all of which I considered and dismissed: ignoring the personal attack, getting into accusations and counter-accusations (which tends to shut down discussion), or reporting on AN/I (which I think is premature and will be unnecessary if the editor can be persuaded to remain civil). Wikidemon (talk) 03:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Typo redirect Hu Xiao Mei,

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Hu Xiao Mei,, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Hu Xiao Mei, is a redirect page resulting from an implausible typo (CSD R3).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Hu Xiao Mei,, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 00:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

cool down

• You don't know me. I was never gonna 3RR, never gonna insult your ancestry, etc. I was just showing the degree to which I believe your position is a very harmful error, representing a very serious threat to the integrity of the encyclopedia.
• Rmv'ing it won't do any good. I'm probably gonna go RfA'ing in a month or so; folks will dig it up anyhow. Might as well leave it there.
• Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)} 03:30, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Oi, what is Hu Xiao Mei an "improbable typo" of? Looks like good pinyin to me... oh, OK, no prob Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)} 03:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I think it was the comma at the end of the name. It's actually quite probable if you're clumsy.... Wikidemon (talk) 03:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Barack Obama

Could you direct me to the living person "Large Family" please. I have never heard of this person. Landon1980 (talk) 20:01, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

The comment in no way insults, the Obama's, African American's, and not even large families. This is ridiculous, the same little group of article owners make it impossible for anyone to comment unless they praise Obama. Landon1980 (talk) 20:03, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

You seem to be on some kind of polemical mission here. The comment you and the IP are inserting accuses George Obama, half brother to the President, of being a "criminal", and you're edit warring on a pages that is on probation (not to mention removing a warning from another editor's talk page) to try to prove that point - when there's no chance of the material getting into the article. You need to take a step back if you want to avoid being blocked for disruption. Please direct your efforts on productive work likely to improve the encyclopedia. Wikidemon (talk) 20:05, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

No, the comment does not accuse Obama of being a criminal. I'll not revert anyone any more, but to say that comment is an insult is very far fetched. Landon1980 (talk) 20:08, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

The comment says that in such a large family one half-brother being a criminal is not significant of the article. Landon1980 (talk) 20:08, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. That's why it is inappropriate. It could be phrased in a way that does not assume that the allegation is true. Wikidemon (talk) 20:13, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

You would not have removed the comment under any other circumstances, you did it in pure spite of me. If the small group of you are going to control that article you need a thicker skin. Try assuming good-faith from time to time. It is only the talk page, making a reference to large families does not violate BLP and you know that. Landon1980 (talk) 20:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Is this a cut and paste? You accused another editor of exactly the same thing. At last count at least three different editors removed the comment on the same basis and you seem to have violated WP:3RR to restore it. Why should I spite you? I have no interaction with you that I'm aware of. The comment does accuse a non-notable living person of being a criminal. It's not the biggest BLP vio in the world but it is unproductive, and it's in a now-closed conversation on a subject that is very unlikely to lead to a change to the article. I see you're already on notice of article probation, and there's an AN/I report right now. BLP, and article probation, apply to article talk pages as well. Probably best to take a deep breath and, as I said, concentrate on improving the encyclopedia rather than drama.Wikidemon (talk) 20:22, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I said you couldn't stand me based on your comments in the past calling me a "problematic- editor," and some other comments you made. Do you not remember the long and drawn out thread on the Obama talk page about his race? So you are telling me if you saw that comment you would remove it? Calling someone arrested over drug possession charges a criminal is not a BLP violation, and you know that. Landon1980 (talk) 20:31, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't remember that but I'll assume it's correct. But Wikipedia is a collaborative user-generated encyclopedia, not a WP:BATTLEGROUND. I deal with disruption all the time and don't carry any grudges, but if this new flare-up is any indication there is indeed something problematic going on. Wikidemon (talk) 20:35, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

You were also deleting my comments in the past, an admin had to start the thread for me because of you and two other editors. There is no point in discussing this further. Yes, I am aware of the article probation. Also, I am aware of WP:3RR, so if you feel I need blocked to prevent disruption voice your opinion on the thread at ANI. Landon1980 (talk) 20:38, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Did it ever occur to you that if I truly was "edit-warring to restore blatant BLP violations" I would have been blocked? Calling someone a criminal when it can be reliably sourced is not a violation of any policy. Your acting as if that comment was in the article itself, it was on the talk page for crying out loud. The only admin that got involved called the comment a "borderline-offensive comment" wikipedia is not censored. From what I've seen you have a bad habit of tampering with other's comments, and I'm betting I'm not the first to tell you that. When you were removing my comments in the past an admin had to step in to get you to quit, had to start the thread for me because of you. You would delete everything I posted, which was in good faith and did not contain any personal attacks, etc. Landon1980 (talk) 15:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

That makes no sense at all. You are in no position to complain about my edits, which are just fine. I'm not going to debate you and I have no interest in continuing this discusion. I've cautioned you. You were wrong to do it. This isn't a close case. Don't do it again or you will likely be blocked.Wikidemon (talk) 16:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Who do you think you are, you are not the community or an admin. Your block threats are ludicrous, just don't worry about what I do. You have no business threatening me over something I stopped doing hours ago. Remember, you are not an administrator, as such you threatening blocks really is pointless. Landon1980 (talk) 17:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to discuss this anymore. I've done my best to warn you. The rest is up to you.Wikidemon (talk) 17:23, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

You are correct there is no point in discussing this. I don't want or need your advice. I have a clean block log, and if I were as disruptive/problematic as you say I am I would have a block log a mile long. The only thing I did wrong was edit-war, I should have reported you and provided diffs of your history of tampering with other editor's comments. You would even remove certain parts of my comments, rearrange them and everything. It took two different admins stepping in before you would knock it off. I stopped reverting that comment a long time ago, so your threats are getting closer and closer to personal attacks. This is your talk page, so go ahead and get the last word in. I'll not waste my time on this any more than I already have. However, if/when I see you deleting good-faith comments, rewording them, etc. I will deal with it appropriately. Landon1980 (talk) 17:42, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

For goodness sake, you were the problem in both instances, not me or the other editors. Your reading of what happened in both instances is seriously off. You stand to be blocked if you behave that way. Ignore that at your own peril. Wikidemon (talk) 17:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Until you are an admin I will take your threats as what they are, empty threats. I stopped reverting that comment a long time ago. Your threats are personal attacks. Let's just drop this. You understand you need the tools to block other editors don't you? If I remember correctly, in the earlier instance mentioned your behavior along with two other editors was frowned upon on the ANI thread. An admin started the thread for me and you all were told to leave it alone. Landon1980 (talk) 18:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

No personal attack, just a caution against disruptive editing. Turning that into a complaint about me is pretty far-fetched. Occasionally there are some misguided people at AN/I who have a knee-jerk reaction against refactoring talk pages, without looking into exactly what happened. But the Obama page requires a lot of policing and a lot of refactoring. I've just found the old issue to which you were referring - you were on the Obama talk page calling people racist for saying Obama is African-American, or something like that, then went to Grz's editor review page Wikipedia:Editor review/Grsz11 to accuse him of incivility. I agreed that Grz ought to keep his cool even in the face of that kind of thing, even though you were off base there on the talk page. Anyway, I really don't carry grudges or try to remember any run-ins with an editor from one issue to the next - best to treat every new day as a fresh start for all.Wikidemon (talk) 18:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Why was the following fact and verifiable reference with an AP (Associated Press) photo not good enough for Wikipedia that you had to tag it with a RS (Reliable Source) and BLP (Biography of Living Persons)? Does Wikipedia have a personal political agenda in censoring facts that refute the P.C. view of Obama as a "Christian" and was registered in elementary school as a Muslim by religion and Indonesian by citizenship?

START QUOTE There Obama, then known as "Barry Soetoro," an Indonesian by citizenship and Muslim by religion, END QUOTE

Thanks, if you reply and give a logical, coherent explanation on why these facts were expunged. No thanks if you ignore this valid complaint on blatant censorship of a valid fact. Katydidit (talk) 17:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

WP:FAIL - Wikidemon (talk) 17:48, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Henry Siegman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_Siegman

Yup - I think the CAMERA issue should be consolidated and discussed. Not sure where it's appropriate, though - perhaps WP:NPOV or WP:BLP or WP:COATRACK - the extreme bias and background of the group seems to indicate that it could justifiably be an issue in any/all of the areas. Hrm - how did you manage to find the other places it's used as a source? Wikinoob... GrizzledOldMan (talk) 10:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Eep - I thought I had problems with ignorant/abusive/single-digit-IQ editors... After skimming through this page - I've had it easy... GrizzledOldMan (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

It's been pretty rough...given that these editors make all manner of accusations of bad faith and that it's flaring up again, the most behavior (as opposed to joking about their obvious lack of comprehension of Wikipedia policies) is in order. If you're concerned that a particular source is being misused, or that a single coatrack is inserted into a bunch of articles you can type the article title or URL of the source into the "search" bar on the left of the page, or go to Special:Search for a more refined search. There is also a special feature for checking external links to different places, so if you think someone is spamming links to a commercial business or partisan organization you can check them. Google is also useful for searching Wikipedia. And "what links here" if you suspect spam Wikilinks. Wikidemon (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Your problem with sourcing

Wikidemon, your accusation that I placed poorly sourced derogatory claims on Rashid Khalidi's page is extraordinary. The source I sued was the New York Times, which took three weeks to investigate and give Rashid Khalidi time to provide a source for a direct derogatory quotation, before concluding that this widely cited quotation cannot be found in nthe interview where Khalidi claimed that he found it, nor anywhere else. If a three week long, New York Times investigation of an assertion is inadequate sourcing, I cannot imagine what you would accept as adequate. Also, please stop threatening men and please stop edit warring and please stop removing sourced, significant material from articles merely because you don't like it.Historicist (talk) 20:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Removing BLP violations is not edit warring. Inserting them is. WP:RS and WP:V are not extraordinary. They are, respectively, a key Wikipedia guideline and a key Wikipedia policy. You have yet again violated WP:BLP and WP:EW by adding poorly sourced information to disparage Khalidi, something that is explained on the article page. I did not remove the portion that was well sourced; I deleted the part that was supported only by the partisan attack editorial and that was not supported at all, e.g. that the material was "apparently fabricated." That is all discussed in the article talk page. The caution is a courtesy notice in hopes that you will stop before administrative intervention is necessary, and instead discuss any proposed addition if you wish on the article talk page. Wikidemon (talk) 20:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Removed again.... GrizzledOldMan (talk) 22:06, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to clutter up the talk page of the relevant articles, I just want to understand what is going on.
These are the facts I've gathered from the NYTimes article and WP discussions:

• Khalidi presented an apparently nasty Moshe Ya'alon‎ quote in a NYTimes opinion piece
• This quote was subsequently widely cited
• The NYTimes was not able to substantiate that quote and printed a follow-up to clarify this
• There is some evidence, not reliably sourced, that CAMERA intervened to request the NY Times follow-up

Is that all there is to it, or am I missing something? Thanks. cojoco (talk) 23:26, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I would put it as follows:

• Khalidi writes New York Times editorial, includes quote by Moshe Ya'alon that sounds very callous towards Palestinians
• New York Times subsequently appends editor's note to the editorial saying they cannot verify the widely cited quote, that it did not appear in the piece to which it is generally attributed, that the original source has not been found, and that they should not have printed the quote
• Various pro-Israeli (for want of a better term) think tanks, blogs, editorialists, etc., gear up to attack Khalidi and accuse him of spreading a "bogus" or "fabricated" quote, among other things. They congratulate themselves over having caught the New York Times and made it do their bidding.
• Pro-Israel camp's version things, sourced to these partisan sources, added five places in Wikipedia

I'm not sure what relevance there is to CAMERA claiming they pressured the New York Times to do something, or what CAMERA has to do with this issue at all - it sounds like banging the drum for their own troops and sponsors. They live in a very different world than journalists, in which everything is a battle between the Truth and the biased liberal media, so every time they can claim a victory they do. It is only expected that they boast about their successes and not reliable at all. The Times did not report why it retracted the statement. Obviously there are politics at the Times and real humans make real decisions, but the decision on whether or not to retract an inaccurate or unsupportable statement is not likely to be made because a conservative think tank growls at them. If the quote is inaccurate anyone could have pointed it out, probably multiple people familiar with the issue. Unless someone from the Times explains, we will never know the exact course of events.Wikidemon (talk) 23:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I tried to dig up some information on the issue, and have come to the same conclusion. CAMERA questions the accuracy of the quotation, but I have been unable to find any neutral, 3rd party sources which pick it up. If it were indeed a fabrication, surely there would be multiple sources critical of the professionalism of anyone who used it? However, all I've found is deaphening silence. Nobody seems to be questioning the quotation except for extremist pro-Israeli groups. I think the lack of response says it all. GrizzledOldMan (talk) 23:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm perfectly willing to believe the quotation is inaccurate - it would not be the first. Even if it were inaccurate, to call it a "fabrication" or "hoax" one would have to figure out who fabricated it and where, as opposed to it being a mistake. The articles are painting Khalidi as a bad guy and intimating that he's dishonest. But I see no convincing proof, and certainly nothing up to WP:RS standards. Wikidemon (talk) 23:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I have more or less the same view on the subject. It may be a mistake. It may be a question of translation (assuming the statements weren't in English). It may very well be as inaccurate as Historicist's sources claim it to be. However, given the history of the sources he uses, I believe it's inappropriate to use them as reliable sources. If it were picked up and investigated by neutral, 3rd parties - then fine... but it hasn't. Deaphening silence from the journalist community on the subject. GrizzledOldMan (talk) 00:07, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

FYI - you might want to correct the link here to this. GrizzledOldMan (talk) 00:19, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Alas, the edit war continues to exact its bloody price. Moshe Ya'alon article once again suffers from the crossfire. I tried to clean it up and remove the inflammatory wording, as opposed to a complete revert. See how long it lasts.... Sorry for cluttering up your talk page, but Historicist's butchery of the English language was just so painful, that I had to go and vent my frustration somewhere. Apologies. GrizzledOldMan (talk) 07:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Just one more point on this whole sorry saga: I had a look at the source for the original quote, and the whole Ha'aretz connection looks like a bit of a red herring. This is from the article by Arnaud de Borchgrave which allegedly started it all:

"Civilians -- and civil worldviews -- have been totally excluded from any involvement or influence in the diplomatic process," according to Ha'aretz. "The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness," Gen. Yaalon is reported to have said, "that they are a defeated people."

The "according to Ha'aretz" doesn't actually seem to be joined to the Gen. Yaalon quote at all. Yaalon was only "reported to have said" the quote, without any citation. As "editor-at-large" for The Washington Times and UPI, Borchgrave looks pretty reliable. cojoco (talk) 20:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

apologies

Apologies for plagiarism here. It was a nice summary and I nicked it. GrizzledOldMan (talk) 05:52, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

And again...

And again... you really should be getting royalties...

FYI, you might want to look at this and this edit. Note the incomplete sentence in the first? *sigh* Really, do I need to type out my thoughts? In the interest of civility guidelines, I'll just gag myself. GrizzledOldMan (talk) 09:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Historicist problems

I noticed your comments on WP:AN/I regarding Historicist (talk · contribs). I suggest that you raise this at Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement and cite the arbitration sanctions imposed in WP:ARBPIA. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Having started a thread as is, I don't want to drag this out or forum shop, so if nothing comes out of this latest incident I may simply advise the editor of my intent to refer any future trouble there. Also, I don't know that he has specifically been warned of arbitration enforcement, which looks to be a prerequisite to those sanctions. Wikidemon (talk) 00:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

How much is enough?

Your edit here - how many references do you want? 3 isn't enough? You want me to dig out another dozen or so, to extend the page length? GrizzledOldMan (talk) 03:50, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll respond on the article talk page. But one that actually supports the claim would be sufficient. The first sentence in that paragraph is an attempt to write a summary lead but it doesn't actually match the content of the paragraph precisely, except by offering a bit of a synthesis / judgment / opinion on it. Wikidemon (talk) 04:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Response to edit war warning

Please do not insert poorly sourced material into articles that has been challenged as a violation of WP:BLP, as you did here.[2] You should be aware from the article talk page, on which you commented,[3] that the material does not have consensus, is challenged as poorly sourced, and is a matter of discussion not only on the talk page but at WP:BLP/N and WP:AN/I. Also, please be aware that articles relating to the Palestine-Israel conflict are under WP:general sanctions. Per Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement I am requesting that an administrator provide a formal notice of general enfocement, available here {{subst:Palestine-Israel enforcement}}. Thanks, Wikidemon (talk) 17:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC) Copied by Mhym from Mhym's page - Wikidemon (talk) 09:24, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I think some politeness is in order and I consider this type of comment as border line intimidating. I am a semi-dormant editor too busy to get into WP fighting. All I am trying to do is correct an obvios bias. The BLP's are explicitly allowed both praise and criticism as long as they come together and neutral in nature. When I created and wrote much of the this article, I made special effort to be neutral and include both praise and criticism with reliable sources. One-sided removal of the criticism section is a clear evidence of bias, which I am sure you are aware of. My guess is that most people who have these lengthy silly discussions on the talk page are pushing their own political agendas and uninterested in NPOV. That's a shame. But trying to intimidate an honest editor to push him/her to stay away from the article is really creepy. Care to explain yourself? Mhym (talk) 07:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

No bias - the material is inappropriate per WP:BLP, WP:WEIGHT, and WP:NPOV. Criticism, and praise, has to be reliably sourced, and adding examples just because notable partisans on the subject wrote them does not count. When I did find the reliable New York Times news article that put the Alan Dershowitz "criticism" in context, for example, it turns out to be a very different matter than you would get just by reading Dershowitz quote out of context. That's the danger of primary sourcing criticism, you cannot establish weight and you lose context. You are entitled to your own opinion on the matter, and that is what the talk page is for, but BLP covers this very issue. Did you truly not notice from the article and talk page that there was an edit war going on on this and other articles, that editors were raising BLP objections, and that there is an administrator's notice board case over the issue? I'm sorry if I misperceived that you did this intentionally... a simple "I didn't mean to do that" would suffice. But reversions with summaries like "reads as an advertisment to the person", "criticism section is urgently needed", and now calling me "creepy" all set off alarm bells with me. Wikidemon (talk) 09:24, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I see. You are trying to bully people out of editing articles to try to preserve the NPOV, use the BLP as an intimidation tool to keep one side but not another (check out "leading U.S. expert on the Middle East" quote), don't show any appreciation for having written 90% of the Henry Siegman article as it remain even now, and most amazingly expecting me to apologize. Nice. Hope your alarm bells continue ringing - might distract you from future content removal. I am off the WP for now - have more pressing problems. Mhym (talk) 00:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

You're assuming bad faith, rather belligerent, and asserting WP:OWNership of an article, all over content inappropriate for Wikipedia, so best just take my caution at face value and don't do it again - I don't have any desire to talk further about my role in this. It isn't a two-sided issue; I'm maintaining peace here more than I am trying to favor one interpretation over another. There has been some content pushing by a very difficult editor across several articles and you happened to step in on his side, intentionally or not. The "leading expert" comment, incidentally, is from a reliable source but I have questioned the praise as well and requested a citation for another section. Wikidemon (talk) 00:59, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

UMB

Can you check this change I reverted?

I poked around, and can't find any evidence to support Historicist's claim that it's a type of construction. It's a building type, in all the documentation I can find.

You made the article, though - comments? GrizzledOldMan (talk) 10:43, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Gosh, that seems kind of obscure. Well, it's really a description of the building's construction. Load bearing masonry walls without steel or wood frame structure to reinforce it. You could say it's a type (or classification) of building, but I suppose you could say it is a way of constructing buildings. It does have some construction implications.[4] But as the term UMB is used, it is often a classification scheme by governments to assess risk or require seismic upgrades. I wouldn't sweat this one.... do you really want to be harsh on Historicist in an area that is not POV? It's good to see he's paying attention to an uncontentious topic. I think my original "type" is a little more correct, but it does not matter much either way IMO. Wikidemon (talk) 10:51, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey

If you continue to post on my talk page harassing me I will resort to a legal threat against all of wikipedia for continued copyright infringement of my works. Resorting to WP: No legal Threast will only help my case against you. Wikipedia is NOT exempt from the law. 68.38.147.199 (talk) 23:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Note - the above editor was trolling, and has been blocked for legal threats. Wikidemon (talk) 01:16, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

A liberty

Looked at your contribs today, guessed you're done. So i went ahead and did this. [[5]]. BestBali ultimate (talk) 23:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Amusing chap, isn't he? Wikidemon (talk) 01:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Tort reform

Thanks for the shortening work. It's better. Would you like to weigh in on this conflict of interest posting ? Wikidea 21:54, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Sure... I don't see what the fuss is about though. Wikidemon (talk) 21:58, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi

Hadn´t spoken directly with you in a while, thought I´d say howdy.Die4Dixie (talk) 08:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi to you too. Thanks for the note. We're like talk page elders by now, huh? I hope you didn't mind my gratuitous use of y'all the other day, I have an affinity for the South too... Wikidemon (talk) 09:12, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Not at all. Seems that most people with whom I agreed with were sockpuppets or perma banned. You might try and encourage that fellow to go to the RS board. If they are in agreement then the article should just say Hawaii. If they are fringy then Just leave it. I think the naming of the hospital is agenda driven, but I don´t feel strongly about it. It might get a little hot there as I do think that the Wright controversy should be linked to somewhere. Doesn´t have to be long or drawn out, but in a BLP, it is conspicious by its abscence. You were good and patient with that fellow. I probably overreacted to his comments on my talkpage, but I picked a tough name when I started for people who haven´t stood far enough away when they looked at it. Most end up accepting it and it doesn´t come up later. Some folks look at my page and think I am off the cast of Deliverance, and so because I´m Southern I hate Obama and smoke a corn cob pipe an´ choo to-bachy. I don´t like socialism. I don´t want an editor thinking because of a userbox or two I´ll knee-jerk support something that he supports because of politics. You should have seen my early edits and the shitstorm they provoked at Sean Hannity when they had his natioanlity as Irish. I pissed a guy off so bad there that I probably agree with on 90 percent of the issues. He then reported my username and it got ugly. Oh well, I´m rambling now. Take it easy. Maybe the fellow will come back tomorrow.Die4Dixie (talk) 09:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I do try to cut the sincere hotheads some slack, as opposed to people who are just playing with us. I guess your username is conjuring up the southern rebel thing, and some people are probably seeing confederate flags and segregation. I hadn't thought about Deliverance...some people don't understand southern pride, and people in the north / east / west have their own passive-aggressive kind of chauvinism. All good, though, it's better than everyplace being the same. RS is a good idea, although in my experience people on BLP, RS, and other non-administrative noticeboards tune out really fast and aren't of much help if it looks like people are squabbling. Can't say I blame them. Nobody wants to jump in the middle of a cat fight, especially if it's not their cat.Wikidemon (talk) 20:53, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

New sock?

User:Eclectix, with only one previous edit on another subject, has jumped right in to the Obama talk page. His/her fourth Wikipedia edit is an RFC. I think we need to be wary of possible sock (and certainly SPA) activity. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:58, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Hmmmmmm..... True. I didn't learn about RfCs until several months of editing, it's not exactly the most obvious or easy to master piece of Wikipedia procedure. Yet the pattern does not seem like any of the familiar recent socks. A premature RfC after failing to gain consensus on a relatively trivial but POV technical issue does smack of newbie-ness.Wikidemon (talk) 20:56, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Pikacsu is suspect as well. It's almost like the sort of thing Dereks1x used to do. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

That one is flaming out today... I wonder if it's worth filing an SSP or RfCU. Maybe wait until he's blocked and if another account begins disrupting we can request a CU on the lot of them. Wikidemon (talk) 20:18, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Obama talk

You just topped it of nicely (in your edit summary) :) .--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 03:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I had emailed you much earlier about the topic. I think that my directing the user to the appropriate page for the info if he could find reliable sources was sufficient without arbitrarily scrolling my comments. The above users comments were excessively antagonistic in addition to his puerile comments on his summaries were not particularly helpful.Die4Dixie (talk) 04:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry - I don't often check my Wikipedia email but I was trying to give it the benefit of the doubt because of your involvement. TMCK lives up to his name IMO across many articles, gleefully and with a bit of sass mopping up editing problems. Personally, I think it was Sceptre's comment about "bullshit" that was over the top, which is why I reworded the closing message. I think it's beating a dead horse at this point though. Now we're having a discussion not about ACORN but about when threads should be closed, politely declined, or just deleted. The IP editor is blocked at this point BTW. Wikidemon (talk) 04:45, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough . BTW, I removed the wrong section. I had intended to remove the section that I had so stupidly named. I see that you have renamed it , and I thank you for it. The other comments could be added back , but I am done with it. It was beginning to cause me some stress. I really don´t want any trouble with you nor Clean keeper. Suffice to say I apologize and I´ll come abck tomorrow when I don´t feel as contary.Die4Dixie (talk) 05:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Next narrative segment

Hi. Could you replace the bullet symbols with numbering? Or give me permission to do that? It would then be easier for me to refer to your points. Thanks. --Bob K31416 (talk) 03:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Sure. For the future I don't mind formatting / organizational changes to any of my talk thread posts.Wikidemon (talk) 04:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Obama is the first President of the United States to have been born a British Citizen since William Henry Harrison.

WHY DID YOU UNDO THIS CHANGE ON THE OBAMA PAGE? IT IS ACCURATE, INTERESTING AND SUPPORTED BY FACTUAL REFERENCE. IT IS IN NO WAY OFFENSIVE, DEFAMATORY OR PROFANE. Natwebb (talk) 05:53, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Obama is the first President of the United States to have been born a British Citizen since William Henry Harrison. When Barack Obama Jr. was born in 1961 Kenya was a British colony. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status and the citizenship of his children was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): "Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth." Therefore, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.

see also http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natwebb (talk • contribs) 06:05, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barack_Obama#Obama_is_the_first_President_of_the_United_States_to_have_been_born_a_British_Citizen_since_William_Henry_Harrison.Natwebb (talk) 07:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

The identical comment, posted to Talk:Barack Obama, has already been answered and resolved on that page, so I will not respond here. Wikidemon (talk) 07:52, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Alternative to notability

Hello! I am working on an objective alternate to notability in my userspace. Please read User:A Nobody/Inclusion guidelines and offer any suggestions on its talk page, which I will consider for revision purposes. If you do not do so, no worries, but if you wish to help, it is appreciated. Best, --A Nobody^{My talk} 01:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Ratttso

[[6]] has bee editing the user page for ratttso, might want to keep an eye on this user. He has said he is a computer science teacher and can evade blocks, I imagine he has been blocked before. I don´t have the patience for him now[[7]].Die4Dixie (talk) 08:36, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

If that were true, he would be risking his job to pointlessly vandalize Wikipedia. And you don't have to teach computer science nor is that kind of Internet application even the subject of CS, anyone can figure out how to do that after a few minutes on google. More likely a weird kid using the worst threat he could dream up.Wikidemon (talk) 19:12, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree and amplify - in my experience, computer science teachers are the most dramatic possible example of the axiom "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach others how." If he really wanted to scare us, he would say he's a weird kid with a little knowledge and too much time on his hands. arimareiji (talk) 19:29, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if Ratttso is the same editor as User:Cc2po. They're both editors with little history and similar writing style, meatpuppeting each other's obscure fringe content and defending each other's extreme peculiar behavior. Ratttso is obviously not on the level. Why another editor would rush to his defense and parrot his fringiness is beyond me, it doesn't add up. Wikidemon (talk) 21:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

No, it does add up... we're just not supposed to say it out loud. arimareiji (talk) 23:22, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Thought you might be amused by the update, if you didn't already know: He tried to complain about you et al at AN/I, only to get sockblocked. arimareiji (talk) 13:57, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that's maybe the 12th sockpuppet who's filed an AN/I on me in the last year. I wonder if some of those are related or if it's just something that sockpuppets like to do.Wikidemon (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality funny

Seen this? -- Scjessey (talk) 15:37, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Mossad

Seeing your edits at CAMERA, I wondered if you had any knowledge of Mossad. Perhaps you could check out my talk page post there. Grsz¹¹ 03:46, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: February 2009

Below warning copied by editor from their own talk page

Welcome to Wikipedia. Do not do this[8][9][10][11][12][13] again. It is a fairly serious breach of Wikipedia policy. As a strict matter of consensus you should not edit war to insert content that is disputed, in this case by five different editors who reverted you on the article page and an additional editor who disputed the edit on the article talk page. For more information on the consensus process see WP:Consensus and WP:BRD. Random policies and arguments you cite to justify the material do not overcome the need to establish consensus. However, this particular material disparages an active Wikipedia editor based on reliable sources having little to do with the subject of the article, so it is not a matter for consensus. Also, you should note that Israeli/Arab subject matter is covered by "General Sanctions", described here. Persistently disruptive editors may be blocked and/or banned from editing articles on the subject. If you continue to revert this material into the encyclopedia I will bring the matter to the attention of administrators, who may choose to temporarily block you from editing the encyclopedia to prevent disruption. Wikidemon (talk) 07:17, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you actually stated a policy that necessitates the removal of this material that the material is a serious breach of, because you have so far failed to do that. This material is not covered under the WP:NPA. It would help if you read the relevant line in the policy "Pointing out an editor's relevant conflict of interest is not a personal attack" or WP:BLP because it isn't biographical material in any way shape or form. Taking out well sourced material, that is not abusive in any way, and that there has not been a consensus reached on to exclude is a violation of WP:NOTCENSORED and WP:YESPOV. But thanks for the warning bud, its nice to know when people can't justify position they resort to just resort to threats. Thanks again champ. TWilliams9 (talk) 13:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I may respond on your own page, if you've commented there. Wikidemon (talk) 18:16, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

User talk:71.114.8.82‎

71.114.8.82‎ (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Using the talk page as his outlet for the ACORN rant. Does 3RR apply, or is such a rant considered vandalism? I did mention this at WP:ANI, but I don't know if anyone's watching. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 02:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. The material is clearly not appropriate to a talk page, particularly a blocked user. You're well-known around AN/I so I doubt anyone would knee-jerk block you for it. Best is to ask someone to block the IP for a while. Failing that I would seek some positive encouragement from AN/I and then add a link to the AN/I discussion next time you revert - that way anyone looking into your edits would see that you've already sought guidance on it.

"is based loosely on" vs "is loosely based on"

It's the match of the century!

In this corner, weighing in at 4 words: "is based loosely on" . (cheers, cheers, cheers)

In the opposite corner, the challenger, weighing in at 4 words: "is loosely based on" . (cheers, cheers, cheers)

I googled the two phrases and got: 91,400 hits for "is based loosely on"; and 541,000 hits for "is loosely based on" .

It looks like the challenger wins by decision, but it wouldn't surprise me if the less popular version is more grammatically correct. I don't know what the relevant grammar rule is. Also, it may be better reading to use the more popular version. My preference is "is loosely based on". Forgive me if this might sound silly to discuss such a small issue, but I'm curious. Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 21:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know either is correct. With "is loosely based", the adverb "loosely" modifies the adjective "based", meaning that is a specific kind of basing. With "is based loosely" the adverb modifies the word "is", meaning that it is normal basing, but its status of being based is a loose one.Wikidemon (talk) 22:16, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Abbarocks et al

has a 99% chance of being a sock -- see [14]. I had a user before use the same m.o. named User:Brendan19 though not quite as blatant <g>. At the time I suspected wither the late User:Writegeist or User:Mattnad was also involved as they appeared (sometimes mysteriously) in the same discussions with the same vocabulary. As a wizop for many years, finding "alternate personas" was almost a sport. Mattnad appeared in Business Plot with this [15] having been initially logged in as 98.331.28.245 (indicating he logs on and off at about that time). Brendan19 five minutes prior made a similar type of post at Union Banking Corporation [16] Neither had been on either of those pages previously, hence the concern that the two are related. Abbarocks has been the main person reverting on Union Banking, while Ikip is the one on Business Plot. I suspect you are well familiar with Ikip at this point. Thanks! Collect (talk) 03:09, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, gosh. I just hadn't been paying attention. Still, if you get into arguments with socks on talk pages they win. Best to collect evidence quietly until you have enough to convince someone to do a CU or a block. Good luck. Wikidemon (talk) 03:35, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Barack Obama/weight

Hey, what exactly does this measure? Grsz¹¹ 03:36, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

This was from autumn 2008, when various difficult editors, were advocating for inclusion of disparaging material about Obama. Specifically they wanted to add or expand treatment of the matters of Bill Ayers (the supposed "unrepentant terrorirst"), Reverend Wright, and Tony Rezko. Because the issues came up every few days, often by repeated attempts by the same editors (later found out for the most part to be sockpuppets) to introduce the material, I wanted to create a stable page rather than trying to re-argue the issue every time. The objective here was to show the amount of coverage given in this article, and in another comprehensive account or two, to the various people and events in Obama's life. In an XXX word account of Obama's life, YYY sentences were given to a job he had for ZZZ years, AAA sentence were given to a relative, and so on. That would help keep the matter of a distant political ally, a pastor, and a political affiliate, in perspective. Wikidemon (talk) 08:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

And, rewritten

Hi. At WT:NOR, I responded to your last message there in the section And, written. I'm not sure if you saw it. Could you say over there whether or not it is OK with you to just replace the first sentence for now, as I suggested? Thanks. --Bob K31416 (talk) 18:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/MZMcBride

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/MZMcBride/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/MZMcBride/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Tiptoety ^talk 02:40, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Them Terribles

A tag has been placed on Them Terribles requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a band or musician, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for musical topics.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 08:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

March 2009

Please do not remove speedy deletion notices from pages you have created yourself. Please use the {{hangon}} template on the page instead if you disagree with the deletion. Thank you. ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 08:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• Please stop adding the speedy tag to the article, and be more careful next time. Check out my edit history - I'm not a novice editor. The article has an inuse tag and I'm working on it.Wikidemon (talk) 08:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits.
The next time you remove a speedy deletion notice from a page you have created yourself, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 08:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Given that you're not a novice editor, I don't need to give you so many warnings. Stop removing the speedy-tag. The instructions clearly say not to. If you disagree with it, follow process. But if you remove it again, you will be blocked. ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 08:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Why the heck would you want to waste your time and mine, and disrupt the encyclopedia, by repeatedly nominating an article undergoing active editing by an experienced editor on a notable subject for deletion, even after the editor has asked you to stop. I'm working on it. I don't write speediable articles. Because of the ridiculous so-called "last warning" I must take this matter to WP:AN/I - an even more pointless waste of time. In the meanwhile you might want to review some pages like WP:IAR, WP:AGF, WP:TEND, and WP:DTTR. Wikidemon (talk) 08:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, please let me know when you list the issue on ANI, with the {{ANI-notice}} template on my talkpage - thanks. ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 08:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I've just done it. I'll leave a courtesy notice after I finish a minor clean-up of my post. Wikidemon (talk) 09:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

You seem to have found the discussion so I will refrain.Wikidemon (talk) 09:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Shiny things and related...

		The Template Barnstar
		For introducing a new template, {{increation}}, which shall help to get less new articles deleted before they are finsihed. --Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord2 23:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Great work. Now just make sure it will be linked to and from Wikipedia:How to create a Wikipedia article and other more frequently visited pages (wherever it fits and editors will look for when searching for an answer). Just try to make it easy to find incl. the welcome templates).  ;) . Again, great work and you did spend your time wisely.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 23:55, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

...and besides that, you did get what I consider "the nicest closing of an ANI thread" I'm aware of: "tea and sympathy for Wikidemon". With other words, you went from "getting a hard time" to "getting the best" in one day. How much better can it get? :) --The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 00:09, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Article probation

I'm not sure I've actually seen it in action before. I'm impressed. Guettarda (talk) 02:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Kfedup (talk · contribs)Another article probation notice needed? Guettarda (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Yup....and when we're done, perhaps a WP:CHECKUSER on some of these editors. Wikidemon (talk) 03:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

• Whoops. Looks like we were working the same case at User talk:Neophytesoftware#Article probation notice, and I happened to block during the time you were giving him a final warning. Do you want to rescind, or shall I? I smell sock accounts nevertheless... seicer | talk | contribs 03:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Rescind the warning? The block is likely the way to go - the warnings and reversions only egged him on to be more tendentious. I doubt my warning would stop him, particularly given the climate established by the editorialist inciting the fringe loyalists to view the article as a dictatorship of the cabal. Wikidemon (talk) 03:16, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Is there any way to remove my user name from the notification list? I was just trying to be helpful. SMP0328. (talk) 03:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Don't take it personally - we're all on the notification list... I'll make a comment on your page to that effect. It's no stigma, and being on the notification list does not make you any more likely to get blocked for good faith editing. Article probation has generally been used as a tool to come down in real time on high-intensity disruption. Wikidemon (talk) 03:35, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. SMP0328. (talk) 03:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Please let me know if what I wrote is okay - I can nice it up some more if that helps. If it were a regular warning I might strike or remove it, but we have no precedent for un-notifying people about article probation. It's just a notice, it means you're aware. Wikidemon (talk) 03:39, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Sleeping

Man I go to sleep and miss all the fun! I should stop sleeping and maybe then I'd be able to see the weirdness start! Brothejr (talk) 11:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

One needs to do a sanity / reality check. We went from a quiet, stable article to complete mayhem, socks, and a couple dozen or more editors singing the same tune, proposing the old nonconsensus edits, crying censorship, etc., all in one day. One tries to explain this in simple terms but then that's too much to be a mere coincidence. If the New York Times had published an expose on Wikipedia I doubt it would have influenced editing this much...Wikidemon (talk) 11:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

3rr warning

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. NDM (talk) 11:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)