Talk:Androgyny

Obligatory first heading

Needs to be moved to the correct spelling, "androgyny". -- Someone else 04:57 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC) Why didn't you just move it? Mintguy I tried, it failed. May have had something to do with the redirect that was already there? In any case, thanks for getting it done. -- Someone else 05:12 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)

Not a fan of this page - confuses sex and gender, and comes to conclusions that I don't think are universally accepted. Martin

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Major trimmage performed. Take this as an example of nonsense removed:

"Gender-reassignment" surgery, for example, may make a man look like a woman, but in every other way, as in sexual reproduction capabilities, the man remains male.

Good work - this page is much better now :) Martin

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Okay... I don't have the feintest clue where to begin fixing this, but regarding "androgynous" flowers (I guess somebody who had the term "perfect flower" on the tip of their tongue might start here): a disambiguation link to a disambiguation page ( requiring clicking two links to get where you're going) strikes me as a Bad Thing. Just a thought.

Johndodd 06:43, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Androgyny in Asian culture

As far as I am informed, androgyny and people changing sex is a rather common occurrence in original Asian culture (China and Japan). Can someone add info on this? If an article on this already exists, please add a link to it. SpectrumDT 14:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge Androgyne here?

Given that these two articles are essentially the same subject, I propose that the article Androgyne be merged into the article Androgyny. --AliceJMarkham 06:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

As long as I'm not the one doing the work, I don't see why not. :) Seconded. Sephylight 08:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I also agree with this merge. I don't know why I never proposed this before.--(十八|talk) 23:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree; there is no reason for two separate articles on the same subject. Everyone would be better served by their merger. Aleta 06:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

All done! I did my best but there's probably still some repetition. Tocharianne 03:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Spoilers

I'm not sure as to whether or not the reference to Sheik in the Video Games section is really required for this article. It doesn't seem like a particularly appropriate example and is in itself a major spoiler for the later parts of the games. I've added spoiler tags around that section (although I forgot to log in before I made the change) for the time being. --Defragged 20:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Didn't see the talk page before changing your edits. How do you like my fix? (If you want to remove Sheik as a bad example I have no problem with that.) Tocharianne 21:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I think I'll probably drop the example. I'm not sure Sheik could really be considered androgynous anyway. The reason the character is able to pass herself off as a male seems to be either due to clothing intended to disguise (her face is covered when she appears as Sheik), or possibly due to an apparent complete magical transformation (according to Princess_Zelda#Sheik anyway). Thanks for the help.--Defragged 20:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

New page for "Famous androgynes"?

I think the time has come for a new page for this category. Also...this section really should have citations for verification, or people may begin to plug in hoax names. --Kukini 01:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC) The section IS getting too big. And some of the names amde me think, 'what??'.80.43.72.100 21:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. While people like Sinéad O'Connor and Sanjaya Malakar may be androgynous in a certain way, they certainly never identified as such or gave anyone reason to believe they might be anything other than "normal" men or women, to my knowledge. I wish we could set some sort of distinction between "sort of" androgynous people, and people who are known for acknowledging and/or cultivating their androgynous persona. Greta 20:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Mana

Mana is a crossdresser, NOT an androgyne. I've removed him from the list.

Anime Characters

Some of the anime characters listed doesn't seem very androgynous to me, for example, Cain and Abel from Trinity Blood. I haven't changed anything because I'm no expert of the subject, but I'm wondering if they were just put there because they have long hair. Ravenwolf Zero 19:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

??!!

Couple of days ago MJ was listed in the list. However, it was rightfully removed. Whoever added his name to the list must get his brains checked. --72.12.197.242 05:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Famous Androgynes List

I cleaned up this list a lot. People like John Lennon, Little Richard, and Sinéad O'Connor may be eccentric but have never been widely recognized for expressions of androgyny. Let's try to keep the list accurate. Also I removed Amanda Lepore from the list as from what I can see, she is transsexual and does not combine or move between feminine and masculine aspects. In fact she seems to do just the opposite; playing up the "Barbie doll" image to extremes. I suggest RuPaul for the list, as they're actually known for cultivating their gender bender image. --Greta 22:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

• Maintaining the list would require great effort, and a strict requirement for reliable sources. I've removed it; anyone re-adding should be willing to commit to paring the list down and finding sources. Deltabeignet 03:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Link from Legend of Zelda

I removed Link from the list,because hes very obviously not androgynous. Whoever put that probably just looked at a picture of him or something, and they only put he was from twilight princess, which only adds to my reasoning that someone added him without knowing what they were doing. Just cuz he has a tunic which looks like a skirt thing doesnt make him androgynous 10:06 PM, 25 June 2007

Sailor Moon

Zoisite and Fish Eye from Sailor Moon were listed twice as examples in this article: once under the anime/manga section, once under the video game section. I removed them from the latter, as it seemed silly to mention the same characters twice.

I keep forgetting to sign my comments lately Ilyeana 03:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Manga

Just how many manga characters do we need? It's enough, surely, to say "manga has many androgynous characters" and cite a couple of examples. Instead we have a huge meaningless list. I'd prune it back but I've no idea which are the most useful or relevant examples. Totnesmartin 18:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Griffith, Caska - straight - not androgynous

I deleted Griffith and Caska from the list. Reasons below.

                 <<SPOILER WARNING>>

Whoever classified them as androgynous has not read much of the manga (Berserk). In the manga, Caska is as clearly a woman as can be - there are extremely graphic illustrations which prove beyond doubt that she is a woman and identifies with being a woman. When shit hits the fan in the story, she loses her mind and acts like a child. This does not make her androgynous.

Griffith on the other hand is portrayed to be so beautiful that he looks like "a painting in the midst of the rubble of life....blah blah blah". But he rapes a princess and then goes on to rape Caska! And Caska gives birth to Griffith's child (ok, the manga says that the child is a ghost or something equally shady, but all that proves is that they [Griffith and Caska] might be kinky and participants in demonic sex of sorts, but definitely not androgynous)

                <<SPOILER ENDS>>

Heavynash (talk) 03:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Switch/The Matrix

Is there anything to actually back up the supposed rumours about Switch from the Matrix being a transgendered character, or is that simply pure rumour and hearsay? --Jayunderscorezero (talk) 01:51, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Androgyny in Literature

Help! I thought Jordan Baker from Fitzgerald's 'the Great Gatsby' would be a good addition to the list of androgynous characters in literature, although I don't know how to add to the page in so if someone could help. I've written which I think gives a good account of her androgyny  :

Jordan Baker in the Great Gatsby is often thougt to be an androgynous figure. This is suggessted by her adrogynous name - 'Jordan', her figure of 'a slender, small-breasted girl with an erect carriage which she accentuated by throwing her body backward at the shoulders like a young cadet', the way Nick notes 'a faint mustache of perspiration' on her upper lip and her career of professional golfer in the 1920's seems to masculinze her.

I also wonder whether it's worth mentioning that Fitzgerld doesn't directly state she is androgynous, it has been suggested by so many critics that it's generally accepted she is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.31.187 (talk) 19:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

"Style" list section

The list of musicians is growing apace, and no doubt could grow much further. There aren't good objective guidelines of who belongs on the list, and I fear it's likely to grow into listcruft. As usual, we could move the list to a separate article (which will run the same risk), remove it and replace it with a paragraph of prose with a few non-exhaustive examples, replace it with a category, or apply strict criteria to keep it in check. Thoughts? I generally favour the "replace with para" option, since I doubt that an exhaustive list is either attainable or needed. Pseudomonas_(talk) 13:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I concur - replace with a paragraph. There's no need for a list of androgynous people - just name a few of the most notable. --Alynna (talk) 00:24, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree as well. Paragraphs are preferable to lists, and it needs to be kept in check with some sort of criterion--maybe a RS referring to their androgeny? Carl.bunderson (talk) 07:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Can we do the same with the anime list? It seems odd that a list of (arguably niche) fictional characters would be longer than the other groups of examples. Also, is there a reason that "anime" is listed in the "See Also" section? Lee-mei (talk) 00:05, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

androgyny as a fashion choice

i am androgynous. i am a stright male. but i am androgynous. i have no problem saying that i am of the male gender. i am happy being a part of the male gender. i like women. i simply like the look of androgyny. i mix a male style of dress such as jeans an a t shirt with lip gloss or lip stick some times eyeliner an finger nail polish usaly black some times toxic green or even red. i have long hair longer than alot of girls an long bangs. i shave my face so it will look like a girl sometimes i have a lilte peach fudge but most of the time i don't an i may soon grow a small devils beard an will shave it off very shortly after i have grown it.