Talk:Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

Spelling His Name

ok, so how should we spell Tchaikovsky's name? I've seen a few different versions here. What is considered 'correct' transliteration? If/when we reach consensus, the content should be moved to a page with the agreed and the other pages redirect to it.

Pyotor would be the Russian word: for these purposes (an English encyclopedia), it should be Peter

I don't want to get involved in the mire that is a transliteration discussion, but I should think that "Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky" is the most usual spelling of his name at this time in the West. Maybe (maybe) the article should be moved, but I ain't doing it. --Camembert

My opinion. This is a general problem with the similar Russian names and surnames (for example Chebyshev, Joffe, Fock (or Fok) and such). I know that many times even Russians can't agree what is correct latin transliteration. They can use several different names even in their passports and it is just fine at customs. Another problem is that Russian write western names in their own "strange" transliteration and not in the original (so Newton would be somehow Nyutn). Therefore I use (until I am stopped to do this by the other wikipedians) in English Wikipedia original Russian names, so I would also include in this particular article his Russian original name as Пьотр Илич Чайковски (This probably won't be shown correctly all over - fixed later on). And also for instance we westeners usually use only one (or first) name (e.g. John F. Kennedy). Russians, as I know, they call themselves not by surnames but with their name and their otchestvo (father's name - second name). Regarding Pyotr I do believe this is the right and the only way to traslate to latin Russian personal names. It is true that Peter is English name - but we can't translate "the meaning". It is okay untill we have a list of all posibilities and I am shure it would be very long. For instance how would be Tchaikovsky's daugter called in English then: Natasha Pyotrnovna Tchaikovsky or Natasha Peternovna Tchaikovsky? Best regard. -- XJamRastafire 09:22 Jul 28, 2002 (PDT)

Yes, "Peternova" does look vaguely ridiculous. My feeling was that "Peter Ilyich" would be best because it is the most common spelling in English speaking countries (I admit I have no evidence to back this up, but I suspect it is true - a quick Google search appears to back this up). But on reflection, I think it's probably best to consult a number of large English language music dictionaries (such as Grove) and see how they tackle the problem - I suspect that they will have used the same spelling we have here at present ("Pyotr Ilyich"). In any event, it isn't a particularly pressing problem so long as one central article is maintained with redirects dealing with any stray links. I think placing the cyrillic on the page is a good idea, but I can't see it, and I think somebody who can should do it. Thanks --Camembert

I am glad that someone slightly agree with my 'NPOV'. And as I know for instance Donald Ervin Knuth has on the net such long list about the Russian names of which he would like to get through, probably once and for all. That is why this is not just my kind of fashion as someones here think. And BTW I adore Tchaikovsky's music even if some rumours are there out he was somehow gay and with strange sexual orientation. Music, I guess does not know any boundaries. Thank you, too. -- XJamRastafire 18:44 Jul 30, 2002 (PDT)

Cuz it's just so bizarre for gay men to be in the music and ballet business. montréalais

Jeronimo moved this page to Pyotr Tchaikovsky, which I think is wrong, so I've moved it back - however his name gets spelled, it is very rare indeed for people to refer to him as "Peter Tchaikovsky"; is it either "Peter Ilitch Tchaikovsky" or simply "Tchaikovsky" (Google confirms that ommitting the middle name is relatively uncommon). --Camembert

Russian Alphabet

The Cyrillic letters show accents over the 'myagkii znak' in Ilyich, and over the -k- in Tchaikovsky. These are wrong. You can't accent consonants in Russian. They belong over the second -i- in Ilyich and the -o- in Tchaikovsky. JackofOz 05:51, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Nutcracker

Also, let it be known that Tchaikovsky did not write a ballet called The Nutcracker Suite. He wrote a ballet called The Nutcracker and then extracted some pieces from it to make the concert work The Nutcracker Suite (ie a suite of peices taken from the ballet The Nutcracker). A lot of people get confused about this, so I'm clarifying it before anybody changes it back again. --Camembert

While we're at it, he didn't write a Symphony No. 6 in B minor called the "pathetic symphony" either. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Music, "patetichesky" in Russian means "passionate".Ortolan88

Suicide

Is it really "generaly accepted that his death was by suicide"? Dutch Wikipedia for instance says the exact opposite: death due to cholera with rumours that this was intentional poisoning.

This has been the cause of a great deal of debate, and to date there is no definitive answer. One theory is that a secret court sentenced him to suicide or face being exposed as a homosexual, for his sexual involvement with the son of a member of the aristocracy. Another is it was suicide for other reasons. Another is that it was plain foolhardiness in drinking unboiled water during a cholera epidemic, to prove he was not susceptible to it. We may never know. JackofOz 05:51, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

According to Robert Greenburg (source cited in article), there is no longer a question of what happened. His lecture refers to evidence released by the Russian government. <>< tbc 05:32, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Piano

This may not be necessary, but just to clarify: an anon editor keeps changing the age at which he began studying piano from five to six. This is incorrect. He began lessons in 1845, at the age of five, and even more amazing, he wrote a song to his mother (according to a letter from his father) in September 1844, at the age of FOUR. The anon editor's last change did verify that the intent was vandalism all along. Antandrus 17:48, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Biography

Some links in the section might better be removed - see Wikipedia:Make only links relevant to the context? Schissel : bowl listen 21:41, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Greenberg

I made some edits based on Robert Greenberg's "Great Masters: Tchaikovsky -- His Life and Music." Those edits were removed without comment. I haven't tracked down who did it yet (comments would make that easier), but I am curious to know why my edits were blown away. Is Greenberg an unreliable source? <>< tbc 14:05, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It evidently was here [1]. (Tempted to leave a rant here about people who make big changes and mark them as a "minor edit.") I remember your addition; I edited it myself to give both sides of the story, and indicate the source (Orlova) as well as that it is controversial, with a lot of musicologists vigorously opposing it (the writeup in the recent New Grove is pretty good). Go ahead and put back the details if you want. IMO Greenberg is a good and reliable source; I've gone to numerous lectures of his in SF in the last few years; though he tends to emphasize one side of contentious issues he's very thorough in his research. Antandrus (talk) 15:54, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

His favourite painting

Please see a question I've posted at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities regarding the identity of the author of Tchaikovsky's favourite painting Melancholy. Please reply only there, not here. JackofOz 03:09, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Family connection with Rimsky-Korsakov

Mllefifi removed the following, on the basis that Rimsky was married only once, and not to a Davidova:

He had some interesting family connections to Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov. Rimsky married in turn two of Tchaikovsky's nieces, the sisters Vera and Natalia Davydova. Tchaikovsky's brother Nikolai adopted his great-nephew Georges-Léon Blumenfeld, who was also Rimsky-Korsakov's nephew by marriage (his mother was Vera's and Natalia's sister Tatyana).

I obtained that information from John Warrack's book "Tchaikovsky" (Hamish Hamilton, London, 1973; ISBN 024102403). However, on closer inspection, I discover that although the text has many references to R-K, it says nothing about him being related by marriage to Tchikovsky. The info is contained in the Davidov family tree shown inside the back cover. It seems that Vera and Natalia Davidov did both marry a Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, but not the Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov. The composer R-K did indeed marry only once, to a woman named Purgold. I must take Mr Warrack to task for allowing this false impression to be so easily gained by not disambiguating the Rimskie-Korsakovy. Ah well, there goes another bit of "history". Thanks. JackofOz 20:10, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Broken links

Is there a reason for there being link to files which don't exist in this article? I've removed the link to a file which was intentionally deleted, but there doesn't seen to be any reason for having the other ones here. Unless anyone objects, I'll come back and delete the other broken links later. Caillan 03:19, 13 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]