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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tb (talk | contribs) at 18:58, 6 April 2009 (→Edit war?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Restored section on Anglican Life to template, per consensus. This is an essential element for understanding what Anglicanism is, and there is no reason it should be missing. I have placed at the top since it makes an effective transition from the generic Background to particularities. Castanea dentata (talk) 03:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No you didn't. You just reverted to an earlier version of the template. Since January 17th - over two months - this version has been the consensus version, as further attempts after that date to acquire feed back dissolved into conversations with myself. I am open to restarting such a discussion. What do you feel should be on here and why? What should be removed? This template mirrors the "Top" priority category for the wikiproject, so changes here will be reflected there as well. -- Secisek (talk) 07:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Secisek as well. Please don't make changes to the template without discussion, because it affects many other things at the same time. Instead, explain what should be here and why, and what should be removed, and then we can discuss it. Tb (talk) 08:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note that there was a lively discussion, but it was removed. Wyeson 17:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Restored essential Anglican topics

There are two versions going on here, an older version and a newer. Unfortunately, the Talk record has been removed.

As I and many others have stated in the past, the problem with Secisek's newer version is that it is not really very Anglican. Distinctly Anglican features have been removed and random Christian ones put up in their place.

I have restored the older template, which holds the following essential Anglican topics that had been removed without any explanation:

In the alternate version, the above Anglican topics were replaced with the following random non-Anglican topics that might be pertinent on the Christianity template:

Wyeson 17:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Edit war?

There is no need for an edit war here. Let's look at these proposals:

Add?

Remove?

The discussion was not lively, nor was it "removed" - it was archived when nobody made a comment for almost two months. I have identified priorites above. Now, pick your battles and let's come to consensus. -- Secisek (talk) 18:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the substance of Secisek's outline. I think that Paul should be dropped, and I do think Donne and Jewel should be added. I think the Rood Screen and Stained Glass are way too specific, but a case could be made for Anglican Chant. Wycliffe, Tyndale, and that lot, should not be here. Tb (talk) 18:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the majority of the points, but perhaps the main article should be the general Anglicanism article, rahter than Anglican Communion (or we should rename the template Anglican Communion), as otherwise the template could be seen as expressing the point of view that only the Anglican Communion is truly Anglican (and whatever we as individuals think, I'm not sure that really squares with WP:NPOV). For the same reason, we probabl ought to have Continuing Anglican movemnet on there too. David Underdown (talk) 08:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{Anglican Communion}} is the footer version of this template. Both {{Continuing Anglican}} and {{Anglican realignment}} already are in use as similar, but seperate nav boxes. The question of who is an Anglican - and who gets to decide - is being debated in the real-world right now and I think until there is real-world consensus, the seperate nav-boxes are the way to go. -- Secisek (talk) 17:48, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The awkwardness here is the complex political reality on the ground, indeed. If this were a case of groups which mutually acknowledged each other's participation in the same general world, there wouldn't be a problem. But the very existence of the Continuing Anglican movement was its opposition to the Anglican Communion, and its view that the Anglican Communion (or the relevant local portion of it) was no longer a faithful church. I used to waggishly remark that "continuing anglican" used "continuing" to mean "in schism", and "anglican" to mean "not connected with the Church of England". The "continuing anglicans" have a serious problem with self-definition, and I don't know that we can clean up the problem here; it's only our job to document it. The very notion of an "Anglicanism" which is broader than the actual Anglican Communion is a little, well, offensive to me, though it is a plausible compromise for Wikipedia. I'm not at all content to see the overwhelming vast majority of the world's Anglicans (who are part of the Anglican Communion) forced to define ourselves in terms of some generic "Anglicanism". This would misrepresent the origins and character of the Anglicanism which the Anglican Communion shares--its emphasis on a common episcopate, and relationships of full communion. Anglicans are not organized the way Presbyterians or Lutherans are; we (at least, the majority in the Anglican Communion) identify Anglicanism as being virtually identical with the Anglican Communion. I completely understand that this is merely the POV of the Anglican Communion majority, and it's not acceptable to impose this POV on the continuing anglicans who disagree with it. Yet, it is also not ok with me to push the alternate POV that there is some generic Anglicanism of which both the Anglican Communion and the continuing anglicans are parts. Tb (talk) 18:58, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Anglican" navbox?

I would like to hear why this new Template:Anglican template was added, which seems to be a duplication of this one here. The editor who created it then proceeded to replace the long-standing templates with his new one. Such a change requires some explanation. Tb (talk) 18:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's also Template:Anglocommunion duplicating this, and Template:Angloportal which duplicates Template:Anglican Portal. Tb (talk) 18:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All forks to avoid discussion here. A reminder of policy: "Templates should not be split into multiple templates just so each can advocate a different stance on the subject." -- Secisek (talk) 19:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that they are content forks, but I'd prefer not to guess at the motives behind their creation. Tb (talk) 19:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I alerted an admin and they were all speedy deleted. Setting up "competing" templates to get around consensus is not acceptable at Wikipedia. -- Secisek (talk) 12:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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