Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/World War I task force

Battle of the Red Wall

Could someone please tell me if Battle of the Red Wall, a 'complete Bulgarian victory ... the five French divisions lost between 40% and 75% of their stuff' is a hoax or not? Thanks! The Land (talk) 20:47, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Dubious image

So, this image (right) has been kicking around Wikipedia for a bit; the caption translates literally as "trenches in Flanders in the first world war in La Lys, 1918", taken from a Portuguese history book, and it's always been taken as showing members of the Portuguese Expeditionary Corps. Yorkist (talk · contribs) pointed out that they look like they're wearing French uniforms, not the British ones used by Portugal, and I'd have to agree; anyone else have thoughts on the matter, or a better guess as to quite what it might specifically show?

In the long run I suppose we'll have to relabel and replace it, but... Shimgray | talk | 21:32, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

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Thanks. — Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 09:53, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Featured article candidacy for Nassau class battleship now open

The featured article candidacy for Nassau class battleship is now open. Comments from reviewers are needed to help determine whether the article meets the criteria for featured articles; all editors are invited to participate, and any input there would be appreciated! Thanks! -MBK₀₀₄ 15:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

A-Class review for SMS Seydlitz now open

The A-Class review for SMS Seydlitz is now open; all editors are invited to participate, and any input there would be appreciated! Thanks!  Roger Davies ^talk 14:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

A-Class review for SM UB-10 now open

The A-Class review for SM UB-10 is now open; all editors are invited to participate, and any input there would be appreciated! Thanks! — Bellhalla (talk) 14:23, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Featured article candidacy for SS Pennsylvanian now open

The featured article candidacy for SS Pennsylvanian is now open. Comments from reviewers are needed to help determine whether the article meets the criteria for featured articles; all editors are invited to participate, and any input there would be appreciated! Thanks! — Bellhalla (talk) 17:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Featured article candidacy for Raymond Brownell now open

The featured article candidacy for Raymond Brownell is now open. Comments from reviewers are needed to help determine whether the article meets the criteria for featured articles; all editors are invited to participate, and any input there would be appreciated! Thanks! Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:56, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Conflict over Gallipoli Campaign

I need help on this issue. There is a use named User:Turkish Flame who is waging an edit war over Gallipoli Campaign. He claims that Gallipoli Campaign is part of European theatre of World War I. The Gallipoli Campaign currently classified as part of Middle Eastern theatre of World War I. At the talk page of Middle Eastern theatre of World War I, there is an discussion of renaming of this theatre differently, but there was no conclusion. There are Turkish editors which was thought that Gallipoli is in Europe part of the Ottoman Empire (though there were operations on the Asian side) and it should be included in the European theatre. I could not find any western source that classified Gallipoli being part of European theatre. Also we know that military operations in this campaign originally an extension of Middle Eastern forces. Initial plans of this campaign established in Egypt. I have informed this user [1] also tried to communicate with him [2]. He did not responded to these communication attempts. He constantly continue engage the changes [3]. I also warned him about 3RR rule and dispute resolution [4]. --TarikAkin (talk) 18:10, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

It's obviously part of the European theatre of WWI both geographically and historically. --Turkish Flame ^☎ 18:33, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Fine but we are not talking about geography or general history. This is "military history" of World War One. A history of operations and sides, not the geological or cultural advances. I could not find any source that included Gallipoli under the European theatre of World War I. Is this your own idea (WP:POV) or can you provide a source? --TarikAkin (talk) 18:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

[5]First World War - Europe[6]Gallipoli: Turkey & Europe[7]... --Turkish Flame ^☎ 19:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I checked all your links. They are talking about Gallipoli Campaign. The issue is not if Gallipoli existed or not. None of these sources claims Gallipoli is part of Eropean Theatre. As you know Eropean Theatre is divided into Fronts, and Fronts into Campaigns. There are (Western Front, Eastern Front, Italian Front, Balkans Front and Naval conflict). There are many sources that explains these fronts, but non included the Gallopoli. Can you find a a reliable source, a book, a published article which includes Gallipoli in any of these Fronts that established the Eropean Theatre. --TarikAkin (talk) 19:22, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

It's true, not one of those directly catagorizes Gallipoli as being in the European theater. I've never heard of it being in the European theater before, always in the Middle Eastern. – Joe N 20:56, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Some of them directly puts Gallipoli in the European theatre, and some of them categorize Gallipoli with other European theatres. In one of the sources, it says Enver Pasha, saw the war in Europe as an opportunity for Turkey to take back lands that had been absorbed by the Russian Empire. Please look at [8] again. You can see the map of Europe on the top of the page and please click on "play animation". Also on the right of the page, you can see links of other European wars like the Battle of Verdun, the Western Front etc. And please look at [9] again. It mentions about The European Situation, Before the Campaign, and another map of Europe again on the page. None of the sources mention something about the Middle Eastern theatre. They are all about Europe and Galipoli. --Turkish Flame ^☎ 23:41, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

(a) The Gallipoli was Ottoman land in 1915. It was not an operation to capture land in Europe as you stated "absorbed by the Russian Empire." (b) Lands "absorbed by the Russian Empire" generally refers to lands lost at Russo-Turkish War, 1877-78 (c) WP:Verifiability is an issue with your arguments. The web discussion forms such as delinetciler.net are not credible sources. You are misinterpreting the world "Europe," and you assume it means "European Theatre". Also "You can see the map of Europe on the top of the page" is really not supporting argument for Gallipoli being part of "European theatre." It sounds like "you can see Russia" from your house. I'm not satisfied. You should bring more substantial information to defend your argument. --TarikAkin (talk) 00:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Now it's your turn to find reliable sources which show Gallipoli Middle Eastern(?). --Turkish Flame ^☎ 01:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

It is impossible to find an article that states "Gallipoli is not part of European operations." It would be like finding an article that states: "Turks are not British". You can read European theatre of World War I, and see that it is not. It is your burden to provide the proof that it is part of European theatre. I assume you are Turkish; listen this "Ottoman Empire coordinated its operations from a single command located at the capital, high command, under department of War". There was not multiple operational centers for Ottomans. If you take your time and read "Ordered to die" By Edward J. Erickson you can clearly recognized this fact. For me, it does not matter if you call it "Middle Eastern" or "Ottoman theatre.", but it is clearly not European. As User:Joe_N said, the terminology "middle eastern operations" used in referring to major conflicts with Ottoman Empire. You are welcome to ask for an arbitration. I will obey the community decision. Would you? --TarikAkin (talk) 02:45, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

The only source I have on WW1, other than Haig’s dairy, is 'A military atlas of the First World War' by Arthur Banks 1975. However he doesn’t talk about theatres of war in his work, making this a possibly futile post and could just fan the flames, but his introduction of the campaign does tie it in with the Middle East imo:

“The attempt to force the Dardanelles and fain control of Constantinople and the Straits was the first strategically imaginative project of the war. Its origins lie in a proposal made by Churchill to the War Council of 25 November 1914. He argued that 'the ideal method of defending Egypt; and the Suez Canal from an invading Turkey army 'was by an attack on the Gallipoli Peninsula' which, if successful would enable the Allies to 'dictate terms at Constantinople'. Ibid p. 109

The author shows on the maps that while the main ground battle took place in European Turkey the Naval forces attacked both European and Asiatic Turkey; which imo would make it a little differcult to say that this was part of the "European theater" if fighting also took place outside of which.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 02:23, 23 April 2009 (UTC)