Talk:Methylphenidate

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New Formulations, Patches like HRT and Pain Relief Issue

In the opening paragraph, it mentions new formulations for methylphenidate saying that this patch is similar to other things used in patches, like hormone replacement therapy and pain relief. After pain relief, it lists to drugs used in such formulations- Fentanyl and Morphine.

Does that catch anyone elses eye? It should. Morphine has not and never will be available in a transdermal patch. Morphine is actually pretty weak compared to other opioids, a starting oral dose is usually between 5 and 10mg. A "morphine patch" would have to be insanely large to even possibly be effective. It is interesting that methylphenidate is available this way, because it's not very potent either, but it's solubility certainly makes it a better candidate for this sort of use. I suspect diacetylmorphine, heroin, might possibly work, but then again, it might just hydrolyze to morphine just inside the skin and be useless.

Anyway, enough tangent, I'm removing the reference to morphine, since there is no morphine patch formulation, even if fentanyl patches are sometimes sold on the street as morphine patches. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.190.131.233 (talk) 18:12, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

price and daily dose for an adult

1. What would be the range of a typical dose for an adult? The German article mentions a range of 5-60mg. 2. What does that stuff actually cost? I'm living in a country where you can't buy it, only prescriptions (as far as I know) and I'm having trouble to find reliable (not fishy online offers) prices for it. Any help would be appreciated. Might be interesting for the article as well, no? Apologies if I missed them. 134.106.199.5

ok dude firstly im brittish and get it free with such a prescription, secondly its a prescription drug because it has side effects that arnt good. u aint gonna get high on it and it will give you some seriously bad effects if you take it at all if you take it in a 5 mg dose and youv never had it before it wil increace your concentration and alertnes as well as prevent you from feeling hunger by loss of apitite and give you mild insomnia for the evening if you take any larger doses without building up a tolerence first it can be bad, cause a thinning of the blood, total lack of sleep, make you not want any food at all, give you headaches, make you feel sick, its not a drug like ones that make you feel beter such as morphene. if you dont actually need to take the drug to get your school work done or increase your concentration at work. do not take it. thats the advice of a student with ADD and 9 years of experience with the drug and a high tolerence to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.82.218.235 (talk) 23:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Well price would be 5.20 Euros per 20mg x 30 box. i.e. a box with 30 tablets containing 20mg ritalin. I would say the german article is right although doses as low as 5mg or even 10mg seem a bit odd, I would have said 20mg - 60mg would be more realistic. --Mountviewenterprises (talk) 00:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Criticism summery

The assertion that the problems associated with methylphenidate were made of by Scientologists take up a very small portion of the controversy article and does not deserve to be mentioned in the summery. As it stands, it implies that the criticism has primarily come from Scientologists, which is not the case. Unless we're going to run through the numerous sources of criticisms contained in the controversy article, I don't see any way to include this in the summery in a balanced fashion. Neitherday (talk) 04:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how you can justify removing well cited secondary sources. The article doesn't "imply"...you do. If the wording is suggestive, change it. It is ironic that you state that, "I don't see any way to include this in the summery in a balanced fashion". I contend that there is no balance. We have a secondary citation that demonstrates a party went to great lengths to contrive a controversy, it should be added to the page. Please don't remove this addition again without consensus. --scuro (talk) 16:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Would you be okay with me moving other parts of the criticism article over to give them more equal WP:WEIGHT? This is a very small part of the criticism section (and one newspaper articles assertion) being given more weight in the summer than any one of the actual criticisms. Neitherday (talk) 16:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, by adding new content, per WP:BRD you are the one who needs to gain consensus. Neitherday (talk) 16:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm concerned that you rpeatedly, and unilaterally remove properly cited material. Try an edit here in talk with the material included.--scuro (talk) 04:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no example given. I will revert to the last pervious version without further input.--scuro (talk) 11:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I recommend reading Wikipedia:Reliable_sources_(medicine-related_articles)#Popular_press. Newspapers are NOT and never have been considered good secondary sources especially for medicine related articles. Infact they are generally discouraged. Since this newspaper reference is disputed I would recommend finding a good peer reviewed secondary source which confirms what the journalist states otherwise it should be deleted. If what the journalist says is true then it should not be difficult to find a peer reviewed secondary source to confirm this.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 10:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I read the reference and the journalist stated that

Major news organizations--including The Times--devoted extensive coverage to whether youngsters were being turned into emotionally disturbed addicts by psychiatrists and pediatricians who prescribed Ritalin.

They don't really cite any evidence that confirms that scientology was the group that triggered controversy "almost single handedly" over the use of stimulants for ADHD other than citing exerpts from the scientology magazine (which only scientologists would read) and their call for parents to sue doctors. The above quoted text actually suggests that most of the controversy was triggered by "Major news organisations" who "devoted extensive coverage" alledging stimulants may turn kids into emotionally disturbed addicts and not scientology. Clearly the general public is much more likely to read mainstream media than a scientology magazine, so the LA Times article actually debunks itself. This is why newspaper sources in general are poor sources for medical articles. That is not to say they should never be used but if they are challenged or if they are given undue weight or undue prominance then they will need to be deleted. I deleted a dubious quote from the methylphenidate article. Please find a better and more reliable source i.e. a peer reviewed secondary source before readding it back in. I would even settle for a peer reviewed primary source.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 11:53, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Effects of Citris, particularly Grapefruit, on the effects.

There's evidence that taking any citrus and that in particularly grapefruit interferes and reduces the effects of Methylphenidate. Should this be added to some section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.11.224.4 (talk) 19:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Could be...do you have a citation? --11:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scuro (talk • contribs)

Well, it's true because ionized species can't cross cell membranes (phospholipid bilayer) and if you study conjugate acids/bases in ochem, and later go to pharm school--drugs that aren't soluble in their protonated form (such as the pH of the intestinal track when you drink fruity liquids such as orange juice) then the drugs have lesser bioavailability. recall that bioavailability is only 100% for iv. If you take the pcat, there is an acronym called POAUC and IVAUC which means the amount of concentration of the drug plotted against time. I'm not personally going to add it, because no one would benevolently put the information onto this page. If you want a source, just download some pharmacology notes. Drugs have to pass the think membrane lining of the intestinal tract, which ain't gonna happen if the drug is ionized or polar. If you take the choice, it's all on you my friend. 71.54.173.193 (talk) 17:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

New to the article

I just read the article, and am wondering how it is that what the kids are calling Vitamin R, and about which I'm watching a documentary on its use as a recreational drug the Discovery Health channel, has only half a sentence at the bottom of the article about its abuse. I don't have time for figuring out who on this talk page has been working to suppress this info right now, but I'm going to check back in later. Oh. and let me say this; even if you think that its abuse is overstated or whatever, the article must address all the coverage Ritalin abuse gets. Paddy Simcox (talk) 10:21, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any idea how much all the coverage is? If you find a source, please put it in. If someone else removes it, please discuss it on the talk page, and if they ignore you--add it back in. If they remove it a second time, post it to wp:an where a trusted user can block the vandal. 71.54.173.193 (talk) 17:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Could Ritalin pose a risk of cancer?

In her book THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE WAR ON CANCER, toxicologist/epidemiologist Devra Davis references peer-reviewed research showing the rapid occurrence of cell changes in children after they have been put on Ritalin. I interviewed Davis for my radio show, Writer's Voice, and I would like to post the audio to the part of the interview discussing this issue: http://www.writersvoice.net/2008/01/web-extra-devra-davis-on-aspartame-and-ritalin/ For the record, I worked for 25 years as an occupational and environmental health educator. I've published several articles in the New Solutions: A Journal of Environmental and Occupational Health Policy and I wrote the OSHA report under Jimmy Carter that led the establishment of the major federal grant program for community-based occupational health education, The New Directions Grant. Davis called my interview the "most informed one" she had had.--Francesca Rheannon (talk) 16:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Seems that research has not been colaborated. See the wiki adhd article.--scuro (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

can someone clarify what derkaderka syndrome is?

it's under the side-effects, and as much as I've looked it up all I can find is quotes from Team America World Police and general racism. I don't see anything that even remotely suggests such a syndrom exists. If it doesn't, it should probably be taken out.

148.64.136.99 (talk) 19:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)A Psycology Student

derkaderka syndrome is clearly a Team America World Police joke. This vandalism nees to be removed from the article!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.37.50 (talk) 02:00, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

There are no Concerta 72 mg tablets..

"CONCERTA tablets are currently available in 18 mg, 27 mg, 36 mg and 54 mg strengths. There is no 72 mg tablet. While physicians will determine how the medication should best be taken by adolescents for whom it is prescribed, it is believed CONCERTA. 72 mg will most often be taken as a once-a-day morning dose of two CONCERTA 36 mg tablets. " http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15568.php 77.190.2.237 (talk) 20:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Ritalin Positives?

I feel like the negative aspects of ritalin are far overblown in this article. Being a self-medicating Ritalin user myself, I find that there are many positive things to say about the drug, and my thoughts are being under represented. I must say, I couldn't really read this article through without starting to worry about getting psychosis. RITALIN ISN'T ALL BAD, IT IS USED TO HELP MEDICATE A REAL DISORDER AND IT REALLY WORKS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ngoah89 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Relation to Mohr's Disease (Mohr Syndrome?)

I can find no references (not sourced from this article) to "Mohr's Disease" and no connecting references between the similarly named "Mohr Syndrome" and Ritalin. I've flagged it for a citation, but I suspect that connection should be removed; most references to the history of Ritalin indicate that the use for focus/concentration was identified during rodent trials, long before they'd have been testing a drug for specific human purposes.

Mohr Syndrome seems to be entirely physical abnormalities, so stimulants wouldn't apply. Can anyone provide any citation for the *existence* of a "Mohr's Disease," let alone a connection to Ritalin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.134.222 (talk) 18:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Apologies for the subsequent minor edits. I ended up leaving everything as it was, aside from the added "citation needed". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.134.222 (talk) 18:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

On history of Methylphenidate...

MPH was first synthetised in 1944 by the chemist Dr. Leandro Panizzon, working for Ciba in Riehen, Switzerland, among some other analogues (2-aryl-2-piperidin-2-ylacetic acid esters). These substances were screened for pharmacological activity by Ciba laboratories in the late 1940s and it has been found out, that methylphenidate shows distinct, amphetamine-like, yet milder psychostimulant effects. Before launching the commercial product in 1954, researchers were doing self-experiments with the substance (not uncommon that time), and, while Dr. Panizzon didn't found the effect of methylphenidate particulary benefical for himself, his wife Margueritte (Rita) found it to be pleasant and took it on occassions (stated that she took some time to time before tennis matches); hence the trade name of the drug Ritalin arose as a little "insider joke" (after Rita Panizzon). This isn't speculative (well it looks so without reference, I know), nor original research. It is stated and quoted in a monography on methylphenidate. Unluckily, I get this monography in a month or later, so I can refer this whole story then, at least... Ow, I almost forgot, the monography is Schulte-Markwort, MJ.: Methylphenidat, Thieme, 2004 (in german). ISBN 313133441X. Cheers, --84.163.114.126 (talk) 22:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The IUPAC name is wrong

Novartis (current owner of the Ritalin® brand name) calls it methyl alpha-phenyl-2-piperidineacetate in the FDA pamphlet.

Other names emphasize that this is a methyl ester of a substituted acetic acid. The name given on the page suggests that it is a salt of acetic acid.

I suggest a change to the Ritalin® prescibing information name: methyl alpha-phenyl-2-piperidineacetate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.37.50 (talk) 01:41, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

All of these goddamned articles on stimulants are loaded with bullshit opinions and light on proven facts

The fucking people who write this shit are either manic or abusers of amphetamine, cocaine, methamphetamine, methylphenidate or both manic and abusing CII stimulants.

Most of the medical and pharma articles here are JAMA quality. But when you get to ritalin, lsd, anything trailer-dwelling methheads are using the articles cite Erowid and urban legends like that "lsd accumulates forever in your spinal cord". "Vitamin C makes you trip harder."

It all reminds me of an anti-HIV poster demonstrating the method of bleach sanitization of syringe and needle. The poster warned the addicts that it wasn't advocating INJECTING BLEACH ! Like, duh, but this is the mentality you are dealing with in half the authors in this article. My apologies for the cursing, but I am sure most of the other half here feel as angry at this trash as I do.

These loopy vandals need to be run off and reported to the narcotics police. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.37.50 (talk) 02:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Your a fucking idiot, first of all Erowid is not an urban legend, it actually is a biased site on psychoactives that normally have a negative stigma, second, what does 'abusing' stimulants have to do with poor quality? It's idiots that make poor quality articles, doesn't matter weather they are on amphetamine, crack, or magnesium, they are idiots, third, stop complaining and get off your ass and fix it. Thank you :)(By the way, sign your post next time ritalin kid) 68.238.226.149 (talk) 04:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Read my words. I never said Erowid was an urban legend. I said "Erowid and urban legends like ...". I am perfectly aware of what Erowid is. It is a website that panders to reckless abusers of psychotomimetics. Although Alexander Shulgin is a open proponent of human experimentation and investigational use of psychotomimetics, he is without doubt an authority and presents information as such. Shulgin is probably quoted often in Erowid but not the other way round. As for poor quality correlating with stimulant abuse I can only cite anectdotal common knowledge. However, I imagine that the sections in the DSM on paranoia, mania and cocaine abuse overlap.24.158.33.251 (talk) 19:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

What is the means of creating the mode of action in methylphenidate?

The enantiomers and the relative psychoactive effects and CNS stimulation of dextro- and levo-methylphenidate is analogous to what is found in amphetamine, where dextro-amphetamine is considered to have a greater physchoactive and CNS stimulatory effect than levo-amphetamine (levamfetamine is sold legally OTC in Vick's inhalers).

OK, so does it phosphorylate the dopamine transporter like amphetamine does then to create the effect of inhibiting its reuptake? If it does the article should say so.

Otherwise, since it is closer in structure to cocaine than amphetamine is (note *than...is*, it is itself still closer to amphetamine than cocaine, just closer to cocaine than amphetamine is, note the difference: methylphenidate is in the middle but nearer to amps) is it closer somehow for the reason that such a structure ends up simply binding to the dopamine transporter, like cocaine does, to slow it rather than to phosphorylate it?

That would make sense as it would be theoretically less neurotoxic and more useful for legal / therapeutic purposes. If not then I am surprised that they haven't used something like troparil for an ADD/ADHD mediciation; being as it has netiher the cardiotoxicity of cocaine (from local anesthetic effects) nor the neurotoxicity of amphetamine (and methylphenidate?) (from phosphorylization effects). Nagelfar (talk) 08:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess a broader but not directly related (if the answer is no) question would be: do all phenyltropane stimulants function by simply binding to the DAT1 receptor and (more importantly) do all phenethylamine stimulants function by phosphorylating the DAT1 receptor? Nagelfar (talk) 08:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

"Paradoxical"

The line about the "paradoxical" mode of action is important, because it strikes at a common (mis)understanding of the mechanism. However, the sentence is too short, such that a person without foreknowledge of the debate will not be able to recognize the reference. I have minimally expanded the line, in a way that I hope does not elicit disagreement.Gaedheal (talk) 17:21, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

It is commonly asked why a stimulant should be used to treat hyperactivity, which seems paradoxical. However, CTs of ADHD brains show decreased activity in the brain centers critical to concentration and goal-directed activities.[citation needed]

I don't know how a point as central as this can be left as "citation needed". Phaser501 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 10:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC).

Misdiagnosis and Confounding Symptomology

Psychiatry is a difficult field in which many conditions have overlapping symptoms, and only occasionally mutually exclusive diagnostic criteria. A prime example of this is the case for AD(H)D and type II bipolar. This is confounded by the fact that methylphenidate (et c.) often treat the symptoms of a condition, and not the cause, and therefore treatment with the drug in question often relieves some symptoms of mutually exclusive conditions, complicating further (and more accurate) diagnosis when success of a chemotherapy is used as confirmation of the diagnosis. I would like to see some discussion of the conditions commonly mistaken for eachother. This might be better in the ADHD article, or other controversy articles, but a reference to it in this article may be well placed. Are there any objections to its inclusion here? Gaedheal (talk) 18:53, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Effects - ADHD/ADD Vs non-ADHD/ADD

I suffer from ADHD, but I would like to see the different effects of Ritalin on those who take it for recreational use, and those who take it as a prescribed medication.

Because ADHD has a controversial method of diagnosis, I would like to be able to compare my reactions to Ritalin with those who 'don't have ADHD'. I would also like to know the effect of different doses.

For example, if I took an extremely high dose, would it induce more hyperactivity? Or would Ritalin increase the concentration of someone even if they don't have ADHD?

It would be interesting and useful information to put into the article.

 202.172.111.184 (talk) 00:19, 9 November 2008 (UTC)JMR 9th Nov. '08.

Redundant side effect lists

The list of side effects in the article mimics the list on the right of the article. The list in the article disrupts the flow of the article and ought to be condensed into prose (not bullet points) or removed entirely. Since there is some controversy over editing this article, I thought I would state my support for this change and wait for consensus, or barring disagreement, wait a bit and change it myself. Letsgoridebikes (talk) 17:28, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Insomnia is listed twice, once as a serious side effect, and once as a less serious one. I can't fix it, because i don't know which one is true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisztián Pintér (talk • contribs) 23:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it seems like nobody wanted to comment, so I removed the table on the right side because most of the information contained within was redundant (except the contraindication info that was merged into the article). I haven't seen a similar table in any other medication articles, so I felt justified in removing it. Letsgoridebikes (talk) 03:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Scheduling and abuse potential

The first sentence of this section cites a reference which does not actually go as far as to factually state what is claimed.

I suggest that a new section solely on "Abuse and Addiction" be started and that an appropriately qualified expert sift through the claims in what has been a large area of controversy over some time in this topic and indeed throughout the "terrestrial" world. This may help to clear up claims that for example two molecules that are similar must have a similar pharmacological effect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.50.29 (talk) 14:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

PFC of rats?

The team studied PFC neurons in rats under a variety of methylphenidate doses

Rats don't really have a "prefrontal cortex", this information is very misleading or at least technically incorrect. I'm going to try to find information to back this up before fixing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mderezynski (talk • contribs) 17:10, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

What is with this gigantic run-on sentence? What early research???

Early research began in 2007-8 in some countries on the effectiveness of methylphenidate as a substitute agent in refractory cases of cocaine dependence; the fact that it can satisfy cravings for cocaine in a way which is subjectively and pharmacologically equivalent but longer-lasting as well as easier on the body and somewhat safer and easier to manage has long been part of the 'street lore' associated with stimulants in many parts of the world in much the same way that other substitutionmittel drugs such as methadone, buprenorphine, butorphanol, extended-release oral morphine, dihydrocodeine, and clonidine were amongst opioid users in various times over the past century.

==Lastly, can the Chevelle song be taken off the article? Won't people just search for wiki:Vitamin_R== 71.54.173.193 (talk) 17:59, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

References in pop culture

There was a reference to "Ritalin" in Eminem's first single "We Made You" off of his upcoming album The Relapse

He states in the song:

"lets cut out the middle man Forget him or your gonna end up in hospital again And this time it wont be for the ritalin binge" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.72.177.17 (talk) 00:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Methylphenidate Side Affects

What Are The Side Affects Of This Drug? Im Being Put On It Soon And Im wondering If Weightloss Is common In All A.D.H.D Drugs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.233.2.58 (talk) 01:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Psychosis

The risk of psychosis was off by a power of ten. The paper did not describe this as a very low incidence therefore removed OR. If the rate of psychosis is 0.1% over a few weeks and one takes it for 50 * a few weeks ie a few years one quickly see that you could easily get a rate of 5%. Now 5% is anything but low IMO. But that to is OR :-) --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I was editing from memory and got mixed up. Thank you for fixing, I fixed the errors in the other ADHD entries as well. I think the higher rate of psychosis with long term use is due to distortion of brain chemistry or function with long term use, due to either tolerance, rebound or perhaps even a degree of neurotoxicity, which is one reason why I made the comment on other talk page about the problems of clinical trials taking data from short term clinical trials and applying it to effects of long term use.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 22:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

ritalin

can u drink on ritalin???