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May 20

Shop census in Pakistan

Some times some census are made by NGOs or government, I am working in a company workin as Distributor, So I need shop census for all the cities & towns, how many shops are there & what kind of business they have. If there is possible I will also appreciate that clasification (A class,B class etc)included. I heard about Aftab Associates that they have all kind of census for Pakistan but I did not found thier web site. Yousuf Ilyas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yousuf Ilyas (talk • contribs) 07:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

fr:Boîte à meuh

Hello,

Someone asked if there's some article in WP:EN (and other languages) about this thing, to set interwikis. It asked that because he doesn't know the local name of this box.

Thanks a lot in advance for your answers. Olivier Hammam (talk) 10:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Bonjour,

Quelqu'un a demandé sur WP:FR s'il y a un article dans WP:EN (et pour d'autres langages) sur cet objet, pour placer des liens Interwikis. Il le demandait car il ignore le nom anglais de l'objet.

Merci d'avance pour toute réponse. Olivier Hammam (talk) 10:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

So this is one of those toys where you turn it upside down and it makes a "moo!" sound like a cow. Hence "Boite a meuh" is a "Box that moo's". Sadly, I don't think there is a name for those kinds of toys in English. This web site [1] calls them (variously) "Moo Cow In The Box", "Toy Country Cow Voice Can", "Animal's Cry Cow Toy Noisemakers" - but I can't find English language Wikipedia articles about any of those things. SteveBaker (talk) 12:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the answer. Olivier Hammam (talk) 13:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Digital zoom in digital cameras

Does it have a purpose or is it complete useless? Apparently I don't see any use to it, you can always process the pics afterwards, can't you?Mr.K. (talk) 14:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Digital zoom is basically cropping the image before you take it. I agree, it is pretty much useless. If you are photographing something very small/far away it can help you see it better to line up the shot, but I think that's about it. --Tango (talk) 15:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict)It's pretty much completely useless. An optical zoom actually gives you a more detailed image of the area, a digital zoom just uses software to enlarge the area. You get "bigger pixels", so to speak, but you don't get any more actual detail in the image itself. You can get the same (or, more often than not, better) effect simply be enlarging the picture in Photoshop or some other program. However, depending on the camera and image settings, having the camera do it with digital zoom may sometimes offer better quality than doing it in Photoshop, if the image is processed by the camera before it's stored on the camera's memory card a format with a lossy compression method. However, if the camera stores the images in raw format, this advantage goes away. Optical zoom will always offer a better quality image than digital zoom. Of course, for many users none of this may be a concern, they just want to zoom in for compositional reasons and don't really care that much about the picture quality. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 15:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Digital zoom has a very important use, which is persuading the naive camera buyer that your camera has a better zoom capability than it really does. These days the lack of usefulness of digital zoom is well enough known that naive has to mean someone who hasn't read anything at all about how to buy a digital camera. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:19, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The above is pretty much right in general. Not every photographer has photoshop or the desire to post-process their images or do the cropping so for those folks the digital zoom may serve a beneficial purpose. Similarly if it means that people feel they can take a photo they previously felt they couldn't that's a benefit to them. These are pretty flimsy reasons and i'm 99% certain that the reason it is included by camera manufacturers is so they can over-inflate the zoom-capability of their camera to the naive/average Joe that just wants a camera for holidays and special ocassions as has no knowledge (or care) about features and 'quality'. ny156uk (talk) 16:22, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

If you're planning to crop the photo afterwards, using the digital zoom will allow you to compose/frame the shot and may improve automatic calculation of exposure, white balance, etc, by only focusing on the area you're interested in (although the camera software might be really stupid and not do this). Another factor is that images are normally compressed in cheap digital cameras (and cameraphones) and using the digital zoom may result in lower compression or some interpolation making the image slightly more detailed than the crop of a full-frame image (although on my cameraphone the digital zoom image often looks worse than the cropped unzoomed image, I'm not sure why). Plus it saves memory for stored images, may be quicker to process and store, etc. Of course it's more for low-end cameras and it's only useful if the alternative is taking a full-frame image and subsequently cropping it: it's no substitute for an optical zoom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.172.19.20 (talk) 17:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with 193; I use digital zoom sometimes in the hope that the white balance and even the autofocus might improve because the camera knows to only consider the area I've digitally zoomed in on. Tempshill (talk) 20:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The other thing I guess is if you find yourself running out of space (e.g. you forgot to clear the memory card and don't have a spare and can't transfer them somehow) it may be useful. But with the price of memory cards nowadays, it should only ever really be an issue on devices like crappy phones where you can't upgrade the memory. Nil Einne (talk) 19:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Gulet captain

What qualifications do I need to skipper a gulet with paying passengers in Turkey and Greece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.172.254 (talk) 20:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Companies that hire out boats will doubtless be able to tell you the full legal requirements: they may differ between countries, e.g. because Turkey is not part of the European Union. BrainyBabe (talk) 22:58, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

You might need to have training as captain or officer, and furthermore - first aid, safety at sea, fire prevention, SAR, navigation, communication... when my father was a sailor (he's retired now) he needed to renew a dozen or so (I'm not kidding) similar certificates every few years. Concur with BrainyBabe - ask directly at the company you're aiming to work for. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Clothing

What are these guys wearing on their arms? Some confusion has arisen over their name during a discussion of arm-length dragonscale vambraces. 90.193.232.41 (talk) 22:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The guy on the left seems to be wearing compression arm sleeves with holes in them. The guy on the right seems to be wearing compression elbow sleeves with his forearms and wrists wrapped with the wraps used by athletic trainers (a cheaper, disposable version of an Ace bandage).--droptone (talk) 12:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Vimescarrot (talk) 15:56, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

May 21

A question about Silent Hill 4: The Room...

When I was surfing on YouTube, I came across a gameplay clip of Silent Hill 4: The Room. And then I saw that there was a huge face of Eileen in one of the rooms of some corridor. It was quite strange. How did Eileen's face get like that, and what does it suppose to mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's not literally Eileen's head. If you want to inject a bit of symbolism, it could refer to how Henry has been spying on Eileen; now she's staring at him for a change. Or it could represent Henry's obsession with Eileen. Or something else. There's no clear-cut explanation for it; it's also possible that they stuck it in there just to freak people out. That has certainly been a common reaction among players. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 11:44, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Taking a Bicycle onto a Plane

I'm moving to Korea soon, and want to take my mountain bike with me. What is the protocol (generally) for taking a bike on a plane? I know each airline has its own rules, but generally what happens? I don't know which airline it is, because it's being booked for me, and we haven't got to that stage yet (still sorting out work visa). Does anyone know what happens here? Or would it just be cheaper to buy one when I get there? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 04:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

For me, Googling carrying a bike on a plane led to this thread and this random web page and about 108,000 other search results. They seemed informative. Tempshill (talk) 05:14, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I took a bike on a plane from Canada to Texas and back. I did it by putting it in a bike box that I borrowed from a friend. It looked exactly like the picture at the top left of this site: [2]. I think it was pretty expensive new (about $400 Canadian) but I think you can rent them in some places and would probably be much cheaper used (assuming you could find one). The airline charged me $80 extra to ship it, I don't know what it would cost for a trans-Pacific flight. The year earlier I tried shipping the same bike Fed Ex, which didn't work out too well. I had to spend hours wrapping it up, it still ended up taking some damage and it was more expensive than the fee the airline charged (about $120 I think). So if it's an expensive bike you are fond of, it might be worth getting a bike box and paying the airline fee, but if its an old beater and you just want an old beater once you get there it'll probably make more sense to buy a new one there. TastyCakes (talk) 05:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I should add that the bike box worked great - it was very easy to pack it and the bike seemed very protected in it. I'd recommend one for anyone that's planning on doing a lot of airplane traveling with a bike, if the price isn't prohibitive. TastyCakes (talk) 05:45, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Good info. I'll see what happens. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 13:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Most airlines have baggage handling information on their website. For example, going to the United Airlines website and poking around found a "Special Items" section under "Baggage" in the "Services & Information" area. There they list bicycles, saying "Any non-motorized bicycle must be prepared for travel by the customer. United cannot provide tools. Handlebars must be turned sideways, and protruding pedals and accessories must be removed. The bicycle must be contained in a durable, protective case, bag or box. Maximum weight: 50 pounds (23 kilograms) Other information: Allow an extra 30 minutes at check-in." I would check the site for the airlines you're flying. They may impose additional restrictions, especially for international travel. If all else fails, I'd recommend calling them. They last thing you want to happen is to show up for your flight and have your bicycle refused. -- 128.104.112.117 (talk) 16:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Cheers. As soon as the details of my ticket come through I'll know which airline it is, then I can phone up and ask. Cheers, mate! --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 23:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

considering the extra-luggage charge and the hassle, would it not be easier to ship it? When moving countries, i've always taken one suitcase and had everything bulky shipped (preferably paid for by a new employer!).YobMod 09:08, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a friend (in the UK) who cycled across the USA. After looking at shipping costs he found out that it was cheaper to buy a mid-range bike in the USA. After his cycle trip he donated the now well-used bike to a church before flying home. Obviously if you already have a top of the range bike this won't apply, but it may be worth looking at costs of new equivalent bikes as an alternative -- Q Chris (talk) 09:32, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

If you'll be in Korea for some time, I would strongly suggest shipping the bike. Airlines charge a huge premium for you to have it when you first arrive (assuming it isn't lost!). Shipping it a few days earlier should get it there pretty soon after you arrive. DOR (HK) (talk) 10:14, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Most redirects?

Is there any way to find out which wiki page has the most redirects directed at it? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 12:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

• Template:Notwiki --Drogonov (talk) 14:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you ask at the Wikipedia Help Desk, not these reference desks. BrainyBabe (talk) 16:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

• Here is a list from 2007 http://pastey.net/30373 not sure if there is any way other than a similar SQL query on the current database. meltBanana 18:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Weird Car Problem

Hello again...

Last night my car was running the heater on FULL BLAST. But that's not the weird part. The key was NOT IN THE IGNITION, NOR WAS THE IGNITION TURNED TO "ON" OR "ACC" AND THE HEATER CONTROLS WERE ALL SET TO OFF. Turning the car to "ACC" turned off the heater, but I don't want this to happen while I'm not home and kill my battery. OnStar said that nothing was wrong. Obviously something is wrong and would like someone to tell me what was wrong.

PS DON'T give me answers like "It was a Ghost."

Thanks.  Buffered Input Output 13:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Not to sound rude, but maybe it'd be best to not turn to OnStar for this, and maybe take it into a shop to get it checked out..? Yes, it might cost a bit, but at least it'd be cheaper than buying a whole new car, right? ^^ Gothrokkprincess (talk) 15:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure it wasn't the cooling fan running after the car is switched off? The fan can often run for quite a while after the car is switched off to bring the engine down to a reasonable temperature. Dmcq (talk) 17:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

That would have been my first guess too - but the OP says it went off when the key was turned to ACC - so that can't be it. The most obvious thing is that there is an electrical short somewhere - but that doesn't explain why it went off when you turned the key to ACC either. I suppose, if your radiator fan broke and if the car's computer could detect that - it might maybe be smart enough to put the heater on full as a last-ditch effort to save the engine block...but that would be surprising - and it still doesn't really explain why it would turn off again when the ignition switch was set to ACC. What kind of car is it? How old is it? SteveBaker (talk) 19:58, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm legally blind, so I dont' even know what the ACC part means, but my mom had a small creature, a raccoon or something, get inside her engine once. Could some animal have gotten inside and accidentallyy triggered something that tripped the heater switch, then scurried out? (And, that concludes my knowledge of cars :-) Somebody or his brother (talk) 23:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what "ACC" is short for, but I believe they are referring to the position you can turn the key to short of actually starting the engine that just turns on the electrics. --Tango (talk) 23:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Since it apparently only happened once, there is the possibility that turning the key and the heater stopping were unrelated and just happened at the same time by coincidence. It doesn't seem likely at first glance, but if no-one can think of another explanation then perhaps we should take a lesson from a certain Mr. Holmes. --Tango (talk) 23:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"ACC" is short for "Accessories". This position will enable you to power things like the windows and radio, without powering the ignition system. Bunthorne (talk) 04:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On my Honda ACC stands for 'Assisted Cruise Control'--81.170.40.155 (talk) 05:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Could it have been condensation or a leak? You can get strange effects if water creates contacts where it shouldn't go. (OR We had a car start once because water dripped onto the ignition. Spooky!) Powering up the system might have given the current a path of less resistance and evaporated the water drop. 71.236.24.129 (talk) 10:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

V sign for survival

I watched on a survival video somewhere that people should make a V sign out of fire, to attract airplanes' attention in the desert. Why "V"? --Jackofclubs (talk) 13:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

It is the simplist way of indicating that the fire is man made.86.219.162.216 (talk) 13:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)DT

Distress signals are generally based around the number three (or sometimes six, eg. the Alpine distress signal). Three blows on a whistle, three flashes of light, triangles of reflective material, etc. A V kind of makes a triangle but is a little easier to make (being 2/3 the size), so I guess that is why it is used. --Tango (talk) 17:10, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

It is a giant arrow pointing at you. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:36, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Is that a guess or do you have a reason for thinking that? I don't recall being taught to stand at the tip of the V. --Tango (talk) 21:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I find that kind of dubious. I mean, what are the odds of someone coming along, looking around and deciding that since there isn't anyone standing at the tip, it must be a false alarm? -- Captain Disdain (talk) 23:18, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Annex 12 (Search and Rescue) of the Convention on International Civil Aviation establishes internationally-recognized ground-to-air visual signals. A "V" indicates "require assistance" while an arrow indicates "proceeding in this direction". 152.16.16.75 (talk) 23:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Is Popeye Banned in China?

Question as title. Cheers! --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 13:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

The cartoon or the chicken? Recury (talk) 16:58, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If they are smart, it is the chicken. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

What chicken? I mean the cartoon, anyway. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

There's a chicken franchise called Popeye's that I believe is in California and points around there, we've never had any where I am. Somebody or his brother (talk) 23:20, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Ha! Right. I've never heard of it. I'm from the UK. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 23:45, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Popeye's chicken places are very common here in Texas - they do "Louisiana-style" fried chicken with side dishes like 'dirty rice' and 'red beans and rice' that are typical of that part of the world. Overall, they are like KFC but spicier. They appear to have no connection whatever to the cartoon character...I can't imagine this is what the OP is discussing. SteveBaker (talk) 16:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

No. He's called 大力水手 in Chinese (um, the big-strengthed sailor?). The cartoons used to be broadcast on TV, and it's still a well-known cartoon character.

Popeye was the cause of a prominent political imprisonment case in Taiwan: see Bo Yang. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Where's this from?

Me and a friend were talking about Wonderland, and making references from it, and he brought something up, that I'm unsure where it's from, or what it's supposed to mean.

"I live in your heart and die in your eyes." Gothrokkprincess (talk) 15:44, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

You'll have to specify whether by "Wonderland" you mean the movie about filthy, sleazy porn or the 28th worst song ever or something else. Tempshill (talk) 17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

... Alice In Wonderland. Gothrokkprincess (talk) 18:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you asking whether that line is in the book? I don't think so; it doesn't have the right feel at all and sure doesn't sound familiar to me. Matt Deres (talk) 19:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, that doesn't sound anything like the book. Tempshill (talk) 22:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

The closest quote I could find was "I will live in thy heart, die in thy lap, and be buried in thy eyes", from William Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing (text). -- Tcncv (talk) 00:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Reaction effect

In this game, is it possible to create an infinite loop? Nadando (talk) 19:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I do not think so. It appears that continuous activity would eventually need to involve cells beyond the defined limits. Assume we have an infinite loop involving a finite set of cells. One or more of those cells can be categorized as an upper-left cell, defined as one with no participating cells above or to its left. Eventually, one of those cells will rotate so that the connections are oriented up and left to the non-participating cells. That cell will then be "out of the game" not participating in further activity, thus reducing the set of participating cells. As this situation repeats, the number of participating cells will eventually reach zero. Only action by a cell outside the original set would get things moving again, which implies that the set cannot be finite. That doesn't mean it could run for a very long time though. The 16×16 collection shown has 4^16×16 = 2⁵¹² ≈ 10¹⁵⁴ states.

I'm not sure if this constitutes a proof. Perhaps those on the mathematics desk might like to take a crack at it. -- Tcncv (talk) 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

It sounds rigorous enough to me. --Tango (talk) 16:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

black "g $" stamp on 100 bill

i got a $100 bill (US0 on on the top right corner (reverse side) there is a black stamp "G $" is all it is. what is it? a bank stamp? is it from the printer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.64.15 (talk) 19:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

People stamp money with all kinds of stuff. There is not likely any discernible reason for that particular stamp. And as a bit of trivia, it is not a $100 bill, it is a $100 Federal Reserve note. A bill is what you get in exchange for using electricity. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

wikt:bill, etymology 3, item 5. wikt:pedant. --LarryMac | Talk 21:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

(ec) In US English, "bill" also means a banknote. --Tango (talk) 21:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

When Australian currency went decimal in 1966, the public education campaign included a cartoon character called "Dollar Bill". -- JackofOz (talk) 22:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

You get all kinds of thing stamped and written on banknotes. People write numbers of them to help them keep count when counting money, but I can't think what "G" would mean (I initially thought "grand", but that would only be 10 notes, hardly worth a stamp). --Tango (talk) 21:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I bet it is G as in Gangster. You know, OG and all that. You have some bona fide gangster money, maybe it was used to buy drugs or the services of a prostitute. Either way best not put it in your mouth. 161.222.160.8 (talk) 22:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

'Gay Dollars'? I once read that some gay-rights/pride-type group were stamping money with such - some sort of 'our money is as good as anyone's' statement and possibly to annoy people who don't like gays. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 22:43, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Possibly, though it's a long shot, it has to do with Wheresgeorge.com. Although, the people stamping bills for that aren't generally that enigmatic. Dismas|^(talk) 03:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

The top of a wad of bills usually gets marked with a mark for the register it came from or for the person who counted the money from the tray. When the money is machine counted later and there's a difference, the manager can identify where it came from. 71.236.24.129 (talk) 10:37, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Why would you put $100 notes into a register? You can't really give it as change.65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

You've got to put them somewhere. The register seems the obvious place. It's more secure than a money bag under the counter, which is the only other option I can think of. --Tango (talk) 13:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

If it is a customer spending them, yes they obviously would go into the register. However, the comment before was that the stack would be marked on top, and then placed into the register, which makes no sense for larger denominations, unless of course the customer is spending $2,500 in cash? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:36, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

No, the comment said the stack that came from the register would be stamped and then go to be counted. --Tango (talk) 14:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Could it be a "Where's George?" marker? Not that $100s are usually so tracked, but it has been known to happen. Go there and check the serial number to see if it's listed. — Michael J 16:14, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see the earlier comment. I'm a goof! — Michael J 16:15, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

The Good Ship Lifestyle

Does anyone know the place names that the girl speaks at the beginning (and at some point in the middle) of the song 'The Good Ship Lifestyle' by Chumbawamba? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 23:44, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

This youtube vid's lyrics say it is "Pharohs, Bailey, Pharoh, Heppertes, Rally, Ruffle, Challen, Soh, Travelga, Fiddister, Irisy, Fiscay, Umber, Forfend, Promity forth time", but I'd correct it. They're all islands. "Faroes, Bailey, Fair Isle, Hebrides, Raleigh (Mallee?), Rockall, Channel, Sole??, Trafalgar, Finnister, Irish Sea, Biscay, Humber?, Portland??, ?? . Maybe someone can get the rest of them? Steewi (talk) 02:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Correction: they're not all islands, but places to take a cruise ship to. Steewi (talk)

02:32, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, the ones in the middle of the song (from about 2.50) are different: I hear Viking, Thames, Dover, and at least three more. Steewi (talk) 02:37, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Sounds more like weather forecast areas to me.--81.170.40.155 (talk) 05:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

They're areas from the shipping forecast. Dalliance (talk) 08:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

So, does this mean neither KageTora nor Steewi have ever listened to the shipping forecast? That's... remarkable. 89.168.85.22 (talk) 10:55, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

There's nothing very remarkable about people outside the UK not having listened to a UK originated & centred weather forecast. Given that it is only broadcast on a single station in the UK, there's nothing remarkable about people within the UK being unfamiliar with it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, except that KageTora at least is British. I misread Steewi's page :P Given the nature of the station which broadcasts the shipping forecast, and given the general reaction when they reduced the number of broadcasts over FM, I would consider it something to remark upon that someone KageTora's age had never heard it. I was hoping for some amusing story as to why (parents considered the BBC to be Satan incarnate, allergic to radios, etc), but there we go. 89.168.85.22 (talk) 11:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I lived in Asia (China/Japan) for most of my adult life. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 22:24, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

... and now I have the Sailing By earworm. Curse this thread ! Gandalf61 (talk) 12:05, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

For the record the correct names from the lyrics are:Faeroes, Bailey, Fair Isle, Hebrides, Malin, Rockall, Shannon, Sole, Trafalgar, Finisterre, Irish Sea, Biscay, Humber, Portland, Cromarty, Tyne DJ Clayworth (talk) 13:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

You missed out Forth before Tyne. What about the second bit? She says something like 'German [something or other]'. What's all that about? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 18:56, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The song's outdated, then, since Finisterre was renamed FitzRoy in 2002. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 00:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

German Bight --ColinFine (talk) 18:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Excellent work! And the bit in the middle is 'Dogger, Fisher, German Bight, Viking, Thames, Dover, Wight'. Cheers! Got them all now! --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 22:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

May 22

Trees

You often see many companies claiming to plant 10,000 trees etc, despite all this why is that forest cover is still going down?How do you verify such claims? sumal (talk) 03:08, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Unless you go and physically count the trees they claim to have planted, or you have some evidence to suggest they could not possibly have planted as many trees as they claim, I don't think you can verify it. You have to take it on trust, I guess. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Well trees are still being cut down in their billions for our use so 100 companies planting 10,000 trees does not a sustainable forest make. Usually you will find that in these circumstances the company will make donations to a firm that agree to do the work. For example often you'll see a "1p from every X will got to Y", my understanding is that the firms do not track sales (since it would be difficult to know as they will mostly sell to retailers rather than consumers directly) but rather that based on their estimates they make an appropriate donation to cover the usage. Will try find some sources to verify but certainly i've heard that policy being mentioned before. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:04, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever seen trees of this type being planted? Each little tree is about four inches high. Boy scout troops sometimes plant them as a project. to plant one, you make a slit in the ground with a small mattock, insert the root, and then close the slit by stamping your foot next to the slit. With practice, one boy scout can plant more than ten trees per minute. Ten thousand trees is a trivial effort and almost a meaningless number. It's better to count then number of acres. -Arch dude (talk) 09:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Americans use 2 billion trees per year for wood, paper, board, etc.[3] I can't find figures for the world, but it's maybe 10 times that. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 10:15, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Planting A tree every six seconds per person? Impossible in any quantity. After the first row just walking back to your source of seedlings will take more than six seconds.

In any case, All you've asserted here is that planting trees is easy if you already have a truck full of seedlings. APL (talk) 23:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Even if the number of trees planted were equal to the number of trees chopped down, you would still have the problem that the trees you're chopping down are mature and the ones you're planting are seedlings. Forest ecosystems are destroyed when all the big trees are chopped down, and planting some tiny ones (whether in the same place or elsewhere) doesn't really fix that. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, some tree farms are clear-cut, and others are thinned; the latter doesn't destroy the ecosystem. Unfortunately our tree farm article is basically a stub and the difference is not discussed. I assume most tree farms are clear-cut, replanted, and the company puts up signs saying "This area will be harvested again in 2015", as Weyerhauser does for their tree farms that are visible from highways. Tempshill (talk) 15:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

10,000 trees sounds like a lot - but it's not. There are about 1000 trees per acre in forested land - 640,000 trees per square mile. A block of terrain a couple of miles on a side contains two or three million trees. So you can plant several million trees and only cover a tiny dot on a map. Over the last 50 years, we've cut down about 6 million square miles of forest...that's 3,800,000,000,000 trees. When you hear that a company is planning to replant a trillion trees - then THAT would be making a difference. The recent (and belated) release of the movie "Earth" by Disneynature was accompanied by a promise to plant a tree for everyone who comes to see the movie...so far, they may have covered two of those six million square miles! SteveBaker (talk) 16:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Utilitarianism, Moral Relativism, and Moral Absolutism

According to utilitarianism, are standards of morality and ethics absolute or relative, objective or subjective? What do utilitarians think about moral relativism and moral subjectivism? What do moral relativists and moral subjectivists think about utilitarianism?

Bowei Huang (talk) 03:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. SteveBaker (talk) 16:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

What if I change the first question slightly? Is utilitarianism a form of moral relativism or a form of moral absolutism?

What if I forget the first question and just ask what they think about each other? Is that a homework question too? Can you answer that?

Bowei Huang (talk) 01:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the subject, but I have linked your question to some articles that may be useful to your research.

utilitarianism , moral relativism , moral absolutism --Lgriot (talk) 07:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Bowei Huang isn't doing homework, but does like to start discussions. Steewi (talk) 02:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Holes in survival knives

Why survival knives usually have holes in their blades?

I think it is just to make them lighter. --Tango (talk) 12:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

For fishing.

Is it so you can hang them on a pegboard? Tempshill (talk) 22:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

This one has one so that it can be opened while wearing gloves. Recury (talk) 21:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The purpose of the holes depend on their size, location and possible markings near the hole. Some of the reasons make good sense and some are downright silly. Some of the common reasons for the holes include thumb-opening (as in the one linked by Recury), creating an inclinometer, sighting hole (using the side of the knife as a signalling mirror), wire stripper, bolting on attachments (silliness), or even to include a small magnifying glass for firestarting (true silliness in a knife). 152.16.16.75 (talk) 00:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The only holes I've seen are to be combined with a lug on the scabbard to form a wire-cutter. If a cheap knife has this hole but not the matching lug and hardened edge on the scabbard, then it's probably just mindlessly copied from a more expensive knife that did. I believe that M16 bayonets do or did have this device, which is probably the source for a lot of copies. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 20:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

simple maps

Maps often have loads of detailed information and sometimes that isn't always needed. Is there a special term for streamlined maps that contain only the most basic information needed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.54.169 (talk) 16:06, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Needed for what? --Tango (talk) 16:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. If you want a topographic map, it's likely not to show where churches are. If you want a map for driving, then it is likely to show churches since they're major landmarks and thus aid navigation. So, what are you looking to do with these maps? Dismas|^(talk) 18:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Nothing in particular, I was just wondering if there was a generic name for very basic maps, rather than saying "very basic map" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.54.169 (talk) 19:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Yet, the question remains... A map of what? Dismas|^(talk) 19:45, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

There are different names for maps intended for different purposes. --Tango (talk) 19:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the OP is looking for a term that can be used to describe *any* map that has been pared to the bare essentials of its purpose, regardless of what that purpose is. (Not really describing the map itself, but rather the process of minimization, if you will.) I, for one, am not aware of any such term. The best example of the concept, though, is likely the London Underground Map, where the actual geography of London is simplified to emphasise the connectivity of the stations. - The original poster may have better luck asking at the Language Desk -- 128.104.112.117 (talk) 21:04, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Since the London Underground "map" is deliberately drawn schematically and not to scale, it may be argued that it is best not called a map at all, but a diagram. The compromise term "diagrammatic map" is sometimes used for this sort of thing.

As a general answer to the original question, I would simply suggest "simplified map". --Anonymous, 21:33 UTC, May 22, 2009.

In my Army career, we used "strip maps"— simplified maps that showed only the route. We used these in conjunction with regular maps. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Or "special purpose map"? --Tango (talk) 22:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Or maybe those "stick figure" (my term) maps that you often see in advertisements with three of four streets connected together at right angles that lack any proportionality or real world references, showing only that you should follow street A, turn left on street B, and then right on street C. -- Tcncv (talk) 23:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

(unindenting)

"Strip map" doesn't necessarily imply simplification: it just means a map that's long and narrow. It could be a piece cut from a conventional map. --Anonymous, 07:30 UTC, May 24, 2009.

"Obama Would Move Some Terror Detainees to US"

What is so controversial about the possibility of moving terrorist suspects from Guantanamo to US prisons? The guys are prisoners. It’s not like they’re being released to their own devises on American soul. Why is there a controversy over this? --S.dedalus (talk) 16:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the controversy is that some of them may be released on US soil. They can only be transferred to a US prison if they are convicted (or at least charged) with some offence, which may not happen with all of them due to lack of evidence (or just lack of guilt, but that case isn't likely to worry anyone). Ideally such people would be returned to their country of origin or the country they last legally entered, but some of those countries aren't willing to accept them. As such, they would be a stateless person (that article actually mentions Guantanamo) and the US is obliged to keep them. --Tango (talk) 16:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

The irony is that, even though the naval base is on Cuban territory leased to the U.S. government, the detention facility inside is, in every sense of the term, "a U.S. prison". -- JackofOz (talk) 20:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Except it doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of the US prison services. It is a military detention centre, that is quite different legally (or so said the Bush administration). --Tango (talk) 22:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Careful saying that — it's disputed that it's "in every sense of the term". Three Supreme Court Justices disagreed with you in Rasul v. Bush. (However, the other six agreed with you enough to establish that U.S. courts do have jurisdiction.) Tempshill (talk) 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

"...some of them may be released on US soil". Surely if that was to happen and they were not US citizens they would be deported back to whereever they were first captured. Astronaut (talk) 23:21, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

From interviews of concerned US citizens heard on BBC radio news, there seems to be a belief that if some (alleged) terrorist is held in a given US mainland prison, all the shopping malls, schools etc anywhere near that prison will become prime targets for the terrorist organisation he (allegedly) belongs to. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 23:57, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

The US can't deport someone to a country where they would be in significant danger of persecution. They also can't deport someone to a country where they will not be accepted (they would just be put on a plane straight back to the US). --Tango (talk) 10:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I think 87.81.230.195 has hit upon the real issue - voter ignorance. No one in the government wants terrorists to be jailed in their home district because the voters will think their elected representative has unleashed global terrorism upon their shopping malls, and he or she will lose the next election. I don't think this question has a common-sense answer. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:08, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe that there are two issues of concern here - both unfounded.

1. That the presence of a terrorist in your local jail might cause other terrorists to come to your city and to cause mayhem in order to try to get them released. That's possible - but as federal prisoners, the 'protest' or terrorist activities could happen anywhere in the US and achieve the same effect - why wouldn't these hypothetical situations already be happening over the prisoners in Guantanamo? It doesn't really matter where the person is imprisoned - a terrorist threat or protest in order to get them released could still happen anywhere. Efforts to free prisoners of this sort has happened innumerable times in the past - and it's often taken the form of airplane hijackings, etc - but I can't think of a case where the action was taken near to the actual place the person was imprisoned.
2. That the terrorist might be released into the community - either immediately, or after some number of years - and that this person would then be the cause of major trouble. Well, the likelyhood is that such a person would be deported immediately (there are plenty of legal grounds for doing that) - and that the country to which they were sent would refuse entry. When that happens, because they have no right to stay in the US, the INS keeps the person in detention until a suitable destination country can be found. People have died waiting for that to happen. This would be equivalent to life imprisonment - see (1) above. But even if (by some quirk of law) one of these people were to be walking free on the streets of downtown USA - don't you imagine that there would be a black SUV full of guys in dark suits and talking into their sleeves following this guy for the rest of his life? Any effort whatever to contact like-minded people - or to acquire explosives or whatever would immediately lead to re-arrest and possibly useful leads on other terrorist cells.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure people are indefinitely detained if no country will accept them? There are international conventions regarding stateless persons. There are cases like that of Mehran Karimi Nasseri where people have stayed in immigration limbo for prolonged periods, but in that case he was given permission to enter Belgium (albeit after 7 years), but refused it. --Tango (talk) 20:52, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I wonder which bit of the law would treat people that are taken by the US forces to a prison under American control as illegal aliens. lets see, would that be entering without authorization or inspection, staying beyond the authorized period after legal entry, or by violating the terms of legal entry? Dmcq (talk) 20:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

They wouldn't be illegal aliens. Either they would be allowed into the country or they wouldn't, there is no way they could get into the country without permission since they are in US military custody. --Tango (talk) 20:52, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

So as far as I can see it then they are not subject to anything by the INS and unless they are convicted of a crime they have a perfect right to stroll the streets of America unhindered. Dmcq (talk) 21:58, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

No - the US deports them. For a foreign national who has no visa or green-card, the law certainly allows them to do that on the flimsiest grounds. At that point, these people have no right to be in the US. If their country of citizenship refuses to take them (as is currently the case with every one of these people) - or if they are 'stateless' - then they have to appeal for asylum. Asylum is certainly not an automatic right. While they wait for their asylum request to be heard - the stay in detention...and stay...and stay...and stay. They may also apply for asylum in a foreign country - and if that's accepted, then they are put on a plane and gone. Since the US is certainly not obliged to offer them asylum after they've been formally deported - they'll stay in detention until some other country offers to take them...probably in some INS detention facility. There is no mechanism for them to be walking the streets in the US - they have no US citizenship, visa or greencard. So they'll be detained indefinitely...albeit on US soil...albeit in more comfortable circumstances than you perhaps feel they deserve. SteveBaker (talk) 00:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

So foreign people can be deported even though they are not illegal aliens and have not violated any of the terms of their stay? Is there some law saying something like an FBI man stands up in court and says I don't like the person and that's good enough? Or does it not even have to go so far? Dmcq (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Steve said "who has no visa". If you don't have a valid visa then you must have either entered illegally or violated the terms of your stay (by not leaving soon enough). --Tango (talk) 14:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can see not having a valid visa is not grounds for deporting someone. The grounds are that they entered without authorization or inspection, they stayed beyond the authorized period after legal entry, or they violated the terms of legal entry. If a person is taken to the US by the army I don't quite see which of these grounds is violated. Dmcq (talk) 15:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

May I recommend "Americans in waiting: the lost story". There is an appropriate excerpt here. Deportation is essentially a political act - and it's not deemed to be a punishment. Hence it can be applied to non-citizens/non-resident aliens for pretty much any reason. If you are here on a non-permanent basis then the government may simply revoke your permission to stay. Even if you have a perfectly valid visa - you don't have a right to be in the USA. So the government can just say "get outta here" and if they don't go, it's deportation time. There are a bunch of guidelines as to when they will and won't deport - but some of them are as vague as "moral terpitude" or "subversive activities" - and they are only guidelines. The law specifically says that even if you entered the US legally - you may still be deported. But don't take my word for it - read the book excerpt. SteveBaker (talk) 16:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. It seems vague grounds don't count, it has to be pretty certain, but I wouldn't bet on anything given good lawyers on either side! Dmcq (talk) 10:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

It's the thin end of the wedge! Next thing you know, they’ll want to be treated like human beings, granted access to legal advice, charged with actual crimes, presented with evidence that stands up in court, given a chance to cross-examine witnesses, be protected by due process and all the other protections of the Constitution. The day when we can’t simply pick anybody up in some foreign country, hide them in another country outside of US jurisdiction, hold them indefinitely, torture them anyway we like well, that’s the day this stops being a great country! Ah, sorry. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

buying desert boots

I want to buy desert boots, but don't know where. I found Bates desert boots, but only in the US. Where can I find similar ones? Or perhaps something equivalent? I walk for long, long journeys, so they have to be good military style desert boots.--88.6.117.202 (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Your IP address seems to be from Barcelona, Spain. Is that were you wish the buy the boots? --Tango (talk) 18:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

It can be from an internet shop that delivers to Spain. --88.6.117.202 (talk) 19:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Go to Google - type "Buy desert boots international shipping"...or even "Buy Bates desert boots international shipping" - you get hundreds of hits from online stores that'll ship internationally. SteveBaker (talk) 00:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

OR My hubby bought two pairs of boots online (US). One pair from Australia - arrived next week. One pair from Sears (also US)- took 3 weeks. 71.236.24.129 (talk) 11:54, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Lost ID information

Hello, I recently lost photocopies of my Canadian passport and drivers license. Should I be worried about identity theft? Is there anything I should do to minimize potential risks? 71.102.30.155 (talk) 19:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Where do you think you lost them? That could matter a great deal. Dismas|^(talk) 19:44, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I forgot them on a plane in the back pocket of the seat in front of me. I talked to the airline and they looked but didn't find them after. 71.102.30.155 (talk) 20:29, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

You've reported the lost items to the authorities, right? By which I mean the police, the passport office, and the driver's license office in your province. If not, do it right now! They may have information for you in relation to your questions, as well. --Anonymous, 21:36 UTC, May 22, 2009.

Sorry, like Tango below, I missed the words "photocopies of" in the original posting. --Anon, 17:57 UTC, May 23.

If you have lost your passport it is vital that you report it to the police immeadiately. --Tango (talk) 21:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

photocopies of -- Nricardo (talk) 23:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

As an ID document, photocopies are pretty much worthless. However, the photocopies would contain other information that might be of use. For example, perhaps your address is on the drivers license, and the thief knows you are not at home. However, the most likely scenario is that the airline's cleaners put it in their garbage sack when they were cleaning the plane in preparation for its next flight. Astronaut (talk) 08:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I misread that as "copies off" and assumed they were official copies. Yeah, losing photocopies isn't a big deal, that's why you are advised to carry photocopies rather than the real thing where possible. It's not a good idea to leave that information lying around, but it isn't the end of the world. --Tango (talk) 10:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

"Where possible" would not, of course, include the primary context in which passports are used, viz. travel to foreign countries, where only the original would be acceptable. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, when you go through passport control you're going to need your passport. When people want to see your passport just to get the information off it, though, you can use a photocopy. A photocopy is also useful to have in case you lose your passport and need the information. (I helped someone fill out a form for a lost passport once and I think there was a box for the passport number. Fortunately they knew theirs, I have no idea what mine is.)--Tango (talk) 01:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

For your own private use, a simple photocopy would suffice, but only a certified true copy would be acceptable for most banks, authorities etc, and maybe not even that in some cases. They could quite reasonably ask the question "What prevents you from producing the original, if you are indeed the person you claim to be?". -- JackofOz (talk) 01:21, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

National Diet Library

I read the expression "National Diet Library" in a question on the Language ref desk. It was a reference to the Japanese Parliament, nothing to do with obesity and dieting. But my immediate mental image was of a vast repository in some national capital of magazines, books, videos, DVDs and self-help literature of every conceivable description, about how to lose weight (usually "quickly and permanently"), most of which advice contradicts every other bit of advice. It caused me to wonder: Is there any other subject about which there is so much information, but with such a high degree of inconsistency?

A lot of these wizz-bang new diets come with so-called scientific backing, yet for every one of such "scientific" diets, there's another with equally good claimed scientific credentials that says something quite different. So, who to believe? It's common for magazines and TV current affairs programs to have features that make the point that dieting simply does not work, but worse than that, typically people who go on such diets end up being more obese than before they started out. They've gone backwards. But next issue, the same magazine's printing yet another fantastic new diet that "everyone's on". It's all just so unbelievable. Most countries have laws that protect consumers from misleading and untruthful advertising, yet when it comes to this particular issue of obesity and what to do about it, an issue that most governments claim to be deeply concerned about - which they should be because it's getting worse, not better - they seem to allow all and sundry to publish any diet claims they like, in a completely unregulated manner. Maybe if science spoke with one voice on the solution to obesity, governments could use that to regulate the self-help market. But as it is, the strong impression I have is that there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" solution, so a diet that may not work for most people might actually work for a few people. And vice-versa. If it's true that diets simply cannot come with a guarantee of effectiveness for any particular person, why do governments not advise their citizens to at least treat all diet claims with caution; or to go further, by checking with the health authorities as to whether such a diet is supported or not. Does any country have a system where it's illegal to publish diets without some official certificate/imprimatur that says it's been approved by the government health authorities? Or that it's illegal to suggest that a diet, any diet, by itself is the solution; any claimed solution that does not incorporate an exercise regime is intrinsically at best only a part of the solution? -- JackofOz (talk) 21:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

There is a slight flaw in your premise that "science could speak with one voice". Science is not a single entity that only serves one purpose. The vast majority of scientists is either employed by companies or the government. In those positions their research gets a certain direction. Even researchers who got tenure at a university have certain agendas like getting published and a book deal. Add to all that the fact that our understanding of the human body is far from complete. Many concepts that used to be generally accepted have recently been found to be utterly wrong. Just look at the "food pyramid" that used to have a large component of grains. Conspiracy theorists think it was an attempt by the government to help the grain producing agriculture. For people who consume whole grain and engage in heavy physical activity it is actually not that bad, though. For the office workers with the unused gym membership, it isn't. Many things that look good if you consider individual components or theoretical studies, don't pan out in real life. I second your opinion that "one size fits all" solutions don't work. In every system there is a certain statistical distribution. The trick is to find something that covers a wide area of that. (Example. When the US imported grain to feed starving people in the Philippines it was later found that due to the different diet people were accustomed to there it actually caused an increase in liver disease.) If we had perfect information you could imagine that your doctor could give you a couple of tests and then prescribe "the perfect diet" for you. Since humans and their environment are subject to lots of chaotic influences, perfect information is impossible. If you looked at study results from 10 years ago you'd probably have a hard time finding some that haven't been revised or rebuked. Most governments try to keep their populations from engaging in the most obvious follies. They also tend to keep companies from harming or killing too many people in the interest of making profit. But if they regulated everything you'd end up with a place that would be most unpleasant. (Mandatory morning exercise. Food police. No driving cars. etc.) Since the human body has an Autonomic nervous system that reacts to things like stress their best efforts might go to waste and their discontent population might gain weight anyway. Although there are probably vastly more people at risk from obesity, these ads also affect people at the other end of the spectrum. Particularly among girls and young women anorexia is a possibility. Just as with telemarketing, some regulation might be useful, but it would be difficult to realize.71.236.24.129 (talk) 11:43, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

There's the example of the Diet of Worms. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, 71.236. I wasn't talking about governments regulating the daily lives of their citizens, but about regulating what information can be published about dieting and weight loss. For example, I cannot publish a claim that consuming a kilo of pure heroin every morning for breakfast will make you a smarter and healthier person. Similarly, I cannot advertise myself as a doctor, lawyer, veterinarian, dentist, pharmacist or other professions if I don't actually have training and a recognised qualification. I cannot publish a claim that the Australian Government is a private company owned by Mrs Gertrude Smith of Paris, Germany. All these sorts of things are regulated by governments, for very good reasons, and if I make one of these claims, I'm in big trouble with the law. Some types of professions are not regulated (at least not in Australia) - hypnotherapists, homeopaths, massage therapists, aromatherapists, and various others. But they're frequented by relatively few people, whereas most everyone has a legitimate interest in eating healthier food, keeping their weight to an optimum level, being generally healthier, and living longer lives. I'd have thought this type of information would be an obvious candidate for regulation. But I hear what you say about the chaotic factors, and it would be hard to find a consensus among the medical fraternity that any one diet is better than any other. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

May 23

MMA fighters in a street fight

Is it safe to assume that mixed martial artists such as Ken Shamrock or Tito Ortiz would find success in an unarmed street or bar fight? In other words, are the combative skills required in mixed martial arts transferable onto a real-life unarmed "street" confrontation scenario? Acceptable (talk) 01:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I am not certain that I understand the question. Is it true that your question could be rephrased: Is it safe to assume that people who make their living by beating the crap out of people could beat the crap out of people? Or are you asking whether UFC is fake? Tempshill (talk) 03:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The question is quite clear, although it does kind of answer itself. Yes MMA fighters are good at fighting, I've seen it happen.Popcorn II (talk) 07:50, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Problem is a genuine streetfighter is damn good at improvising a weapon at once,pool cue,broken bottle etc ,that they don't stay unarmed for long.OR but I saw a martial artist left bleeding on the floor in about 1/2 minits by a biker used to fighting for real not show 88.96.226.6 (talk) 14:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, martial arts such as Tae Kwon Do and Karate are not practical in a self-defense scenario. Even during sparring competitions, the rules are somewhat rigid and not at all realistic as to what one would do on the streets. Therefore, someone who is excellent at TKD may not be good at defending themself against a real attacker. However, would UFC fighters fare better? Acceptable (talk) 15:35, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The difference comes about because the martial artist is accustomed to fighting within the confines of the rules - where a streetfighter pretty much has no rules. If the discipline that the martial artist follows has strict rules - then they may do very badly - but if they have few rules, then it's going to be more likely that their experience and training would allow them to beat the streetfighter. It's hard to know the degree to which this effect matters. SteveBaker (talk) 16:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

There is one move that is by far the most effective move in a real fight but doesn't appear (legally, anyway) in any martial art - the sucker punch. The best way to win a fight is not to get in one in the first place, disabling your opponent before they can do anything is a very good way of doing that. (Of course, if you want to be able to claim self-defence in court, you need to wait until you can reasonably claim that you thought an attack was imminent. Some jurisdictions may have additional requirements as well.) --Tango (talk) 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I have 30 years of martial arts experience in five different art forms (both striking and grappling). Personally, I'll put my money on the streetfighter most often for all of the reasons noted above (streetfighters can improvise, don't follow rules, etc.) but also because most professional martial artists can't fight more than one opponent at a time! Even the great Royce Gracie would get a major thumping on the street bacause odds are that the streetfighter's buddies will join in! In the case of multiple attackers, I would think that the striker (karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, etc.) would likely fare better than the grappler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.77.185.91 (talk) 21:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

The mother of all road trips

Reading our articles on the Bering Strait bridge and Strait of Gibraltar crossing has got me wondering. Should crossings like these be built, how long would it take to drive through all five linked continents (i.e. no Australasia) – say, from Cape Town to Cape Horn? I appreciate how hypothetical this is – and that there are a kabillion factors to consider – but Google Earth didn't want to help me! This document seems to suggest that such a trip would take a little over a year, but it also seems a little speculative. Cycle~ (talk) 01:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

And what factors should be considered that may hinder such a journey (politics etc – not just having a vehicle that's up to it!). Cycle~ (talk) 02:00, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you could drive all around the earth at the equator, you'd have to drive 24,800 miles - with good roads you could probably do 500 miles a day (50mph - 10 hours a day) - so roughly two months. I doubt your transcontinental journey is significantly more than that...so definitely not a year. SteveBaker (talk) 02:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

That assumes good roads all the way, though. It only needs one bad 1000 mile stretch to significantly slow the journey - if you could only manage 120 miles per day on that it would increase your time by over a week. You've also got to consider that while 500 miles per day sounds feasible (and is on short trips), on long trips it would be serious wear and tear on both the vehicle and drivers. The longest road trip I've ever done was 4000 miles and two weeks - and I doubt that either the vehicle or those involved would have survived anything quicker. I'd say that 200-250 miles per day is a more practical figure to work from, which would make for a four month journey - more if you want to do any real sightseeing. Grutness...wha? 02:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, in the real world, as of now, even on land there are obstacles like the Darién Gap.John Z (talk) 06:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Having done some long road trips myself, I can tell you that 500 miles a day, day after day, would be an absolutely punishing schedule even on reasonably good roads. You would quickly fall a long way behind schedule. 150 miles a day is a more realistic pace, enabling you to see something of the country/state you were passing through, stopping for food, take the smaller roads rather than the major highways.

War torn areas are probably avoidable but you might encounter bandits who will be only too happy to rob you of everything 9including your life). The biggest problem though would be the lack of road infrastructure in some parts of the world, though one would hope that if a Bearing Strait bridge were to be built, they would get around to connecting either end of the bridge to the rest of the road network. However, at the moment, there are parts of Africa, the aforementioned Darién Gap, and the Road of bones in Siberia that are petty much impassable in a "normal" vehicle. The weather would be a major factor too, with heavy rain in equatorial Africa and Central America washing out the unpaved roads, windblown desert sand in the Sahara and many other regions you would probably pass through, and extreme cold in Siberia and Alaska. There are some political moves to build a Trans-African Highway network. There was a ref desk discussion some time ago about driving to the very bottom of South America. Astronaut (talk) 08:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Which six continents? Wikipedia has "seven regions commonly regarded as continents – they are (from largest in size to smallest): Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Australia". If you are excluding Australia / Australasia then are you including Antarctica? Your route does not need a Gibraltar Bridge, You could go via the middle east. So I presume you are talking (Gib route): South Africa -> Nigeria -> Morrocco -> Spain -> Turkey -> China -> Russia -> Alaska -> Mexico -> Argentina for 5 continents. -- SGBailey (talk) 09:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Aaghh, thanks for pointing out my incompetence (fixed). As for the Gibraltar route, it was just as an alternative – avoiding going through Sinai, up into Europe and then doubling back. Cycle~ (talk) 12:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Ewan McGregor and some other dude did Long Way Round and Long Way Down - both of which were road-trips of this sort of idea. They seemed to run into a huge number of problems from what I saw. Worth a read of the articles though - it was a very popular series on the BBC (though I personally never watched it hence having only a passing knowledge of it). ny156uk (talk) 09:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I didn't catch the first one, but I saw Long Way Down and more recently Charley Boorman's By Any Means. I think it would be more interesting to do a big trip by one means of transport though! Cycle~ (talk) 12:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The various Michael Palin series are also probably worth a look for this sort of thing, though they are less of a real road trip than the ones mentioned. Grutness...wha? 00:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

rote learning vs. actual thinkinh

hi, i just read the article on "rote learning", and although i understood the meaning and theoretical explanation, could someone please give me some examples of rote learning and some of actual thinking?

i'm from india and here, in high school, the teachers teach us everything from the book, advice us to buy other reference books and practice sums and questions from them. is this rote learning?

but as i entered 11th grade in another school, there was a significant change. even though the teachers still advice us ref. books, there's a much more emphasis on acutal thinking. but then, this may be because different schools have different teaching styles. and then, is this new school following rote or actual???

(and in fact, i find it very hard to cope up with the new school's curriculum. this is primarily due to the fact that this new school follows a curriculum different from the one in which i have been studying for over twelve years. i have been under CBSE where the course is light, while the new school's curriculum is ICSE which is very hard. the teachers were amazed that i didn't know logarithms (which had been taught in grade 9 in ICSE background.)

thanx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.134.149 (talk) 04:54, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Most schools in India (I'm an Indian too, so I've got hands-on experience) actually encourage rote learning, but there are ocassional exceptions. And it is well-known that the ICSE/ISC board emphasizes on in-depth understandig while the CBSE board has a more diluted course. The syllabi may be the same, but CBSE teaches only the apparent stuff, while ICSE/ISC gives more stress to deeper understanding, and has a vaster field of learning. Also, in class XII, especially if you're a science student, you are expected to use your brains rather than follow the rote-learning technique (which won't get you too far when you pursue higher studies). Using reference books and practicing problems is okay as long as your concepts are clear, and you don't resort to mugging up scores of obscure formulae. Also, changing boards after class X comes as a big shock for anyone, but I think going through the question papers of the last ten years might help you familiarise yourself with the ISC's pattern.La Alquimista 05:35, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Can I just say, as someone who took a "conceptual" math class that emphasized all "thinking" and no rote learning, that there is something quite advantageous about some types of rote learning. 20 years later, I don't remember any math that I don't use on a daily basis that I hadn't had drilled into me — my multiplication tables are there and ready to go, having been drilled into me by the time I was 11, but I have to re-derive the rules for multiplying exponents every time I want to do it, and have forgotten nearly everything "conceptual" I learned. So while rote learning generally gets a bad rap, in retrospect I could have used a bit more of it personally. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 03:02, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

When President Bush was at a school when 9/11 happened the children were doing rote learning chanting together and the teacher said "more to come" to split up sections. I remember reading somewhere that there was evidence showing this was a very successful method of teaching, I can't see a reference to it on the school site or about that day, anybody know a reference to this method of teaching? Dmcq (talk) 11:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

It depends what they were learning. Some things are quite arbitrary and can't be learned by any method other than rote memorisation (are US children still expected to learn state capitals? That has to be done by rote.) --Tango (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

In North America, rote learning became unpopular for a number of years, but is making a comeback in arithmetic. As a child, I rote-learned the multiplication tables up to 12 and it has stuck with me. That's the kind of thing that's starting up again because if basic arithmetic becomes memorized, it still retains its usefulness while checking calculations, etc. In the past, many other things were rote-learned, such as dates in history class or various figures in geography class. These largely remain out of fashion due to a realization that exact dates don't increase knowledge that much; relational dates are more useful.
Rote learning requires you to memorize something through repetition, usually spoken, and usually in a group setting, though there are variations. When you copy something from a book, you are engaging in a mild form of rote learning, because you see, read, consider, then write the same information.
As a personal aside, I'm glad I rote-learned various items in school - they come to me whenever I need them, almost without requiring thought. I've also memorized various poems on my own through rote learning. While that's not as handy as the multiplication tables, it does help pass the time during extended periods of boredom. Matt Deres (talk) 14:24, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I've had a look at a 9/11 video and looked around and I think they were teaching using Direct Instruction, probably something from the Science Research Associates range of material, you can see an example of how structured it is from this example [4]. The children looked like they were at an earlier stage of the same scheme learning phonics. Dmcq (talk) 14:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Name of book

I read a part of a book last year, the name of which I simply can't recall now. It was (most probably) a classic, or at least, something written at least 50 years ago.The part that I do remember told of a boy who married a girl and on the way home from the church (they rode in a horse-carriage/cab) he made the girl cry by telling her that the ordering of dinner was solely her responsibility, since he'd taken the trouble of marrying her upon himself. In fact, it was his habit to compare everything he had done with everything else the poor girl did not want or know how to do. And, the couple was deeply religious, as far as I can recall.Can anyone tell me the name of this book? Thanks in advance. 117.194.224.237 (talk) 05:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Reminds me a bit of Tess of the d'Urbervilles.Popcorn II (talk) 07:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

It's The Way of All Flesh by Samuel Butler. You're describing the scene in the coach just after Theobald and Christina marry. Karenjc 22:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

logarithms

can anyone tell me where on the internet i can learn logarithms right from the beginning?? 122.50.134.149 (talk) 08:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

You can go to http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wtutor?tutorial=t-log.htm. From your IP address, it seems you're the person who posted the rote-learning question above. If so, I also recommend the ISC maths book M.L Aggarwal, which really simplifies the Logarithm learning process by breaking it up into smaller parts. Also, you might look up Logarithm in Wikipedia to get a clearer idea as to what it is, and how important it is. I gave my ISC's this year, and I assure you, doing log sums was what I enjoyed the most. It's one of the easiest chapters if approached and learnt properly. Best of luck! La Alquimista 08:19, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

It's a simple concept - I can teach it to you right here and now - in less time than it takes to find you a reference!

Consider numbers like 1, 10, 100, 1000. We can write these in scientific notation as 1x10⁰, 1x10¹, 1x10² and 1x10³. A number like 342 can be written as 3.42x10²...but it could also be written as 1x10^2.534. OK - so any number (except zero) can be written in this form. When you multiply two numbers in scientific notation: 100x1000 = 10²x10³ you add the exponents: 100x1000=10²x10³=10²⁺³=100000. Now if you convert two numbers into this exponential form: 342x456=10^2.534x10^2.659 ...then you can add the exponents to get 10^2.534+2.659=10^5.193=155952.

Now - when we talk about logarithms, the 'log' of a number is the whatever in 10^whatever...so if you can convert your two numbers into the appropriate fractional power of 10 - the logarithm - and convert your answer back from that form into ordinary numbers - you can do multplication by doing addition...and in the era before pocket calculators - that was a HUGE deal! You can also do division using subtraction.

Of course that conversion into powers-of-10 format is a bitch to do - but they published big, thick books ("log tables") containing the logs of numbers from 0 to 1 (to perhaps 4 to 7 digits of precision) and other big books that did 'antilogarithms' that convert from the log back to the normal number. So to multiply two numbers - you looked up the log of the digits in the numbers (so for 354, you looked up 0.3540 and got 0.534 from the tables in the book) - added the appropriate number of powers of 10 (so for 354, you added 2 to get 2.534) - then you added the two logs - and looked up the fractional part of the answer in the antilog tables - and added the right number of zeroes to get the right answer.

Better still - you could use a slide rule to automate the log/antilog and addition processes - for approximate calculations. Back in the 1960's - when I was in high school - you used a slide rule for approximate multiplications and divisions - and log tables when you needed more precision. Slide rules are particularly elegant - you can multiply and divide numbers considerably faster than you can do it on a pocket calculator. With care you could do square roots and all sorts of other tricks.

Now go read logarithm for the full answer! SteveBaker (talk) 00:24, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Roadrash

what are the cheatcodes of road rash game? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.239.88 (talk) 08:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Usually your best bet with questions like this is to try google - a search for "roadrash cheats" brings me to this page (http://www.cheatscodesguides.com/pc-cheats/road-rash/) and the results. For example to activate no police "during the game, press "xyzzy" to get access cheats. Then any time you want type in "bribe". Great game by the way. ny156uk (talk) 09:27, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Most people stick to a single reliable website, rather than Googling every time. GameFAQs is my personal choice. It has a searchbox. Vimescarrot (talk) 10:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I always actually Google and I include "gamefaqs" in the Google search! Tempshill (talk) 14:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Why would you want to cheat on your game? Surely the challenge is to defeat the game without the need to resort to cheating. Astronaut (talk) 23:24, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

The purpose of cheat codes is deep and subtle. When a new game comes out - everyone reviews it - it's gets tons of publicity - great free advertising! After that, if you want advertising, you have to pay for it. But if you cunningly tucked away lots of cheat codes and easter eggs then you can 'leak' these a few at a time to magazines and online games reviewers and get more free coverage. Also, if you make these codes available to players who complete the game - you give them reasons to keep playing it - and ways for them to brag to their friends by giving out cheat codes ahead of the leaks to the media. This keeps the underground 'buzz' about your game going.

This wasn't always the case - originally, these cheat codes were put there to allow game programmers to debug their games without having to play all the way through (which gets exceedingly tedious when you're in your second or third year of development!)...occasionally, the programmers would forget to take out the cheat mechanisms before the game shipped. But programmers also find it useful to be able to get to the later levels quickly and easily - for example if they are demoing the game - or in order that busy game reviewers can review the later levels of the game without having to spend dozens of hours playing through to them. Other cheat codes were put in by programmers just for fun - more like easter eggs than anything else. A way to 'sign' the game - to prove to other people that you really did work on the project.

But these days (since the GTA "Hot Coffee" business lost Rockstar games something like $15,000,000) games are screened VERY carefully and programmers and artists can get into a LOT of trouble for introducing cheats and easter eggs without permission...and generally, these things are planned as a regular part of the design process. (Well, that's what we like our management to think!)

SteveBaker (talk) 23:57, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

There would be no fun trying to sneak easter eggs into games if the management weren't trying to stop it! --Tango (talk) 01:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah - but the concern is that console games have to go through inspection by the console manufacturers (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) - if one of the team sneaks something inappropriate and the game fails that inspection process then the consequences can be exceedingly serious. Aside from the fact that you have to pay to get the game re-inspected, the process takes a month or so and that amount of delay in the release of a game can cause your advertising to kick in too soon - and perhaps for you to miss the critical Xmas buying season. That risk is so grave that you'd have to be crazy to try to sneak something like that through without getting the OK from management. SteveBaker (talk) 14:50, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Crazy, or working on your last project before you retire! ;) --14:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Currency sign amount

Do we have a page that describes standards for amounts in business. A thousand Euro are TEUR. How about million? MEUR 1.0 or EUR 1.0M or mEUR 1.0?? Does s.o. know where I can find this for various currencies? 71.236.24.129 (talk) 13:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

In the US, in a business PowerPoint presentation, or some other form in which a shorthand is required, you would write "50K" for 50 thousand, presumably because of the "kilo-" prefix. Usually 50 million would be written as "50MM". I have been told that "MM" is used instead of "M" because "M" in roman numerals means only one thousand. I have often seen people use "M" for million, though, and have not found it confusing. Tempshill (talk) 15:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Manual of Style has the rules used in writing out currency amounts in this encyclopedia: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Currencies. SteveBaker (talk) 15:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

"k" is often used for "thousands". More commonly, "m" or "MM" for millions, "b", "bn", "B" etc for (American) billions. I find EUR 1.0m or EUR 1.0MM fairly common, but have not seen "MEUR". Nor "TEUR", actually. More often EUR1.0k or simply EUR1,000. TEUR seems inconsistent to me. EUR is the unit, there's no such unit as TEUR, and if there is, i would've thought it represented Tera-Euros rather than kiloEuros. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:45, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

If I understand this correctly [5] along with the linked earlier discussions TEUR or perhaps TEuro or something is common in German and sometimes used in English. This also supports the fact [6] it's sometimes used in English. Interesting enough Google Language Tools appears to translate (when doing German to English, added in edit) the subject from TEUR to KEUR of [7]. It doesn't appear to translate it in the text. In [8] it translates TEuro to K € in both subject and text. Babelfish doesn't translate either. Neither do anything to [9] that I noticed. Nil Einne (talk) 19:50, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that this is a topic with large variations in teh answer by nation. In the UK, I am only aware of 50K (or 50k) for thousands, 50m or 50 million for millions and 50 billion for billions. I feel it highly likley that the US does something completely different. I expect the Germans and French to have their own conventions too. -- SGBailey (talk) 21:33, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

aircraft pilot seat position

Why is it common practice to position pilots on the left side of airplane cockpits, and on the right side of helicopter cockpits? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccaero (talk • contribs) 15:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

From this Yahoo discussion, the pilot holds the collective with the left hand and the cyclic in the right hand (see Helicopter flight controls). Keeping a hand on the cyclic is much more important to maintaining control than keeping a hand on the collective. By being seated on the right side, the pilot can more easily reach controls on the center console with the left hand. A left seated pilot would have to switch hands on the cyclic in order to reach center console controls with the right hand. However, another site (here) seems to indicate that the position is more arbitrary. -- Tcncv (talk) 16:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I always understood the helicopter placing to date from older, more basic craft that had only a single collective, placed between the seats like the handbrake on a (non-US) car. It's more natural to fly with the cyclic on one's right hand, so although both seats could reach the central collective it would be more comfortable for the main pilot to be in the right seat and grip it with his left hand.

As for why pilots sit on the left in fixed-wing aircraft, my answer is a little more speculative. It's based around the "rules of the road", and the fact that when two aircraft are on a constant bearing, the one who can see the other's right side should stand on, and the other (who can see the first's left side) should give way. Now, my father (who is a pilot) says that the rule is this way round because it makes observation easier for the pilot in the left-hand seat - he assumes the seats came first and the rule came after. However, I am a sailor, and I know that the same rule exists for ships; I also believe it has existed for a long time. This rule, along with many others about navigation lights and so on, seem to have been lifted wholesale from the sea into the air when some means to regulate air traffic started to become necessary. So if the seat position makes the traffic rules easier, perhaps that's where it came from? 93.97.184.230 (talk) 20:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

• I had heard that it was because most airports fly left traffic, and so the captain has better visibility sitting on the left side. But this is sort of a chicken and egg problem, because the current wikipedia article says that most airports fly left traffic because the left seat is commonly used. Shadowjams (talk) 06:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Do they have it on the left for British pilots as well? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 15:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

May 24

Background music

This will be difficult but I was watching some clips on YouTube and was watching this clip. I was wondering what the background theme music? I believe it has been used before, probably in an ad. --Blue387 (talk) 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

You should ask this on the entertainment ref.desk...they are very good at identifying music. SteveBaker (talk) 14:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I can barely hear it *sigh* —Tamfang (talk) 23:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

University Transcripts (UK)

In the UK (not the US - I know about that already), what is the general policy regarding university transcripts ordered in triplicate and sent through the post? I have received mine (for my work permit for Korea), and specifically asked them to stamp and seal the envelope. However, they seem to have done this on the envelope they sent me the transcripts in, and I have no way of knowing whether they have done it on the transcripts inside, or even whether they have put them in individual envelopes (which is what I need). I don't wish to open the main envelope and risk invalidating the entire package if the ones inside are not stamped and sealed. I will call them on Tuesday to find out (Monday is a bank holiday), but it would be nice to know a bit earlier, as this gives me an extra couple of days to work with (application for work permit needs to be done as soon as possible). --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 08:11, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The transcripts themselves should be individually stamped, do you really need them to be in a sealed envelope? I've never heard of that before and don't recall an option to request that when I last ordered some transcripts. --Tango (talk) 14:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I've been told that for immigration purposes they need to be in sealed envelopes. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:13, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

This probably doesn't help you but when I ordered mine in NZ, IIRC the main letter was sealed and so were the invidual copies. I did actually order one that wasn't sealed as well Nil Einne (talk) 19:57, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

online library

does anyone know an online library site?? i tried wikisource but there were only classics, like sherlock holmes and monte cristo.... i need a site where i could read dan brown's and rowling's and tolkien's, (actually every major author's. the book i want to read right now is angels and demons. i googled for it but every site seems to demand payment), so if anyone knows this sort of site, please tell me.

thanx!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.134.149 (talk) 10:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

You could try Internet Archive and Google Books, but they won't have anything by Dan Brown or J.K. Rowling, since those books are very recent and still under copyright. Google Books might have excerpts but every once in awhile a chunk of pages will be missing. Why don't you try an actual library? That is also free. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

You won't be able to legally get new digital books without payment. The "classics" are on there because they are in the public domain. Everything else is under copyright and the authors need some money in order to keep at it for a living. Go to a regular library or pay for the book. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

All true - but you could (for example) get an Amazon Kindle - which allows you to buy books from their online bookstore and download them immediately. Because those books are paid for - this isn't a breach of copyright and modern books are widely available. But in terms of free sites - no - everything has to either be out of copyright or donated by their authors. However, free, modern books by popular authors is an impossibility - the authors have to make a living somehow. SteveBaker (talk) 14:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

An exception is Baen, which make many recent books available for free download. Their business model is that most people who download the free books alos buy them in hardback. In particular, almost all of David Weber's novels are available, along with a bunch of other stuff. -Arch dude (talk) 16:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Another exception is Cory Doctorow who releases his books via a Creative Commons license. Dismas|^(talk) 19:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

True, but the poster specifically asked about Brown, Tolkien, and Rowling. Which you aren't going to find (legally) online for free. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:55, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

They also said "actually every major author's" and Doctorow is a well known if not "major" (whatever that means) author within his genre. Dismas|^(talk) 20:01, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Some public libraries (mine for example) lend e-books as a downloadable pdf. They work it so that (unless you hack it) you can't copy it and must "return" it at the end of the loan period. It's quite effective. I'm sure there are ways to hack it so you can copy it, but it's not easy. I have found some sites (which I can't recall) that offer a particular book free each month. Steewi (talk) 02:57, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

To my knowledge, most ebook DRM systems are relatively simple to break. (Worst case scenario, since the output should be exceptionally high quality, you can easily OCR the book.) But to be frank, there's little point hacking it if it's a library book. If you're going to violate copyright, you might as well just download the book from a good P2P network. Both are just as ethically, and in some countries, legally questionable Nil Einne (talk) 19:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Cigarette machines?

Do they still have cigarette machines in England or have they been banned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.1.161.76 (talk) 13:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

We still have them in pubs, even though you have to smoke outside. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Lol still good to know they haven't been completely outlawed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.185.62 (talk) 15:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Good? Good?! Please switch your brain into the "ON" position before posting! They allow ridiculously young kids to buy cigarettes despite the laws against that. I presume that the only reason they are still allowed in pubs is that kids who are too young to buy cigarettes are not allowed in pubs unless accompanied by an adult - so it's reasonable to assume that if all of the other laws are obeyed then these machines cannot be gotten at by kids. If you think that allowing little kids to get addicted to this terrible stuff is "good" then you have an argument on your hands here! SteveBaker (talk) 16:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the OP was implying or hinting at that, but I can see your point Steve. In Japan, there are cigarette machines in the streets, and they can be used by kids. They are closed between 11pm and 5am, and this is apparently to stop kids from buying cigarettes at that time of night (as if they are out that time of night). Recently, machines have had 'cameras' fitted, supposedly to check the age of the buyer, but in actual fact, they are only motion sensors set at 'adult head height' and can be easily foiled by a child sticking his/her hand up over the motion sensor (I know! I tried it myself and it worked!). Cigarette machines in pubs in the UK, however, are not a threat to children, as children in pubs are constantly being monitored either by parents, staff, or other punters. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 16:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think SB was saying the OP was implying or hinting that but rather he or she should have recognised the potential harm from such machines and the reason why they may not be good. I agree though it seems from a kid POV such machines in pubs are mostly harmless since it's likely children would generally be supervised. A bigger problem is probably stores who don't follow the law and sell to kids Nil Einne (talk) 19:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Ferrari F430 spider

Please could someone tell me how the doors open on a ferrari F430 because I am using the model in a book I am writing and cannot find a picture of one with the doors open. I think they go upwards. Thanking anyone in anticipation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geekiss (talk • contribs) 16:18, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The photo at right is of the F430 Scuderia - it's doors evidently open conventionally. SteveBaker (talk) 16:27, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Picture of Teufelsberg?

Does anyone know where/if there are pictures of Teufelsberg before it was planted with trees? It was made from the rubble from Berlin, so I'm looking for an impressive picture of an enormous mound of rubble. Any tips on where I could look? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 16:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I had a look on Google Images for you, and the second picture was of rubble in Teufelsburg, but not really the 'impressive picture of an enormous mound of rubble' that you asked for. It was more like a few bits of concrete on the floor of what looked like a forest. Anyway, there were dozens of pages of images, so if you want to check through them (if you haven't done so already), go ahead. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 00:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, I had seen this picture (and similar images with my own eyes), but really want a historical picture of the mound, perhaps as it's being added to still. Google images and English and German WP pages are no help. Any more tips? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 13:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Microeconomics homework question

"From the society's viewpoint a benefit of advertising is the revenue it provides to some firms to enable them to supply public goods. Discuss this statement, starting by outlining the characteristics of a public good."

I'm quite confused because I don't understand why firms need to supply public goods in the first place? Please, any help? 117.0.61.25 (talk) 16:37, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

OK then let's pick this apart. "The society's viewpoint" - which society is this? "Benefit of advertising" - how does advertising benefit anybody? The answer is "the revenue it provides to some firms" in other words, it gives money to some companies. How does it do this? "Supply public goods" - obviously this is what these companies do. What is the "public good" these companies provide? Well it appears to be the services of an advertising agency. So we can deduce that one of the characteristics of a "public good" is that it is a paid for service: one side offers the service (in this case, advertising) to another side who pays for the service. Does this help? --TammyMoet (talk) 17:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

It's difficult to determine exactly without more context. Certainly, the broadcasting of TV shows in the United States might be considered a benefit to the U.S. public (or it might not, depending on one's view of Family Guy), and it's the revenue supplied by advertisers that allows the broadcasters to supply those public goods. Deor (talk) 19:00, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Deor has it. Advetising pays for broadcast TV in many countries. It pays for Google searches. It pays for bus shelters &c. So those are examples of your public goods. We have an article on Public goods which may assist wih the rest of your homework. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:55, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I fixed your link, Tagish. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 22:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Public goods are not always provided by the government. Remember a public good is simply any good that is non-vivalrous and non-excludable203.217.46.79 (talk) 11:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

May 25

SS Jackets Open

Might be obvious, but all the pictures of Secret Service agents that I've seen, depict the agent with their suit jackets open. This is to allow for easy access to their firearms right? Acceptable (talk) 00:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

That and/or it's easier to move with it open. Dismas|^(talk) 00:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Or they are just copying Hollywood, that copies them, who copy the movies, who....86.209.155.227 (talk) 15:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)DT

Postmodern Humanism

What is postmodern humanism? Is it the same thing as posthumanism?

Bowei Huang (talk) 01:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Posthumanism means a lot of things, as our page indicates. Definition #3 is probably the closest to anything like "postmodern humanism." --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

But is it really postmodern humanism? What is really simply postmodern humanism?

Bowei Huang (talk) 05:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Here is a paper that purports to explain. I tried to read it; really, I did. I thought I might be able to extract some pithy synthesis. Instead, I feel as if the author is taking the pith. YMMV // BL \\ (talk) 05:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Voice actor

How can Tara Strong lend her voice to both Raven of Teen Titans and Bubbles of The Power Puff Girls?? The voices are so different! 117.0.58.102 (talk) 08:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

She can do that because she's good at her job. Skilled voice actors don't just read the lines into the microphone, they create distinct voices and vocal mannerisms for their characters. A well-known example of this is Billy West, who voices Fry, Professor Farnsworth, Dr. Zoidberg and Zapp Brannigan, as well as various incidental characters on Futurama. And of course, there's "The Man of a Thousand Voices", who single-handedly (single-mouthedly?) voiced Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Barney Rubble, Marvin the Martian, Porky Pig, Sylvester the Cat, Tweety Bird, Yosemite Sam and dozens of other well-known characters. Another example is Frank Welker, whose ability to fashion animal-like sounds has been in consistent demand. He's got about 1,200 voices under his belt, apparently. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 10:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

And, following up on the female focus of the OP's question, let's not forget the very accomplished June Foray. Deor (talk) 16:36, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, sure! As far as female voice actors go, one of my personal favorites is the consistently funny and versatile Tress MacNeille. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 22:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Remember that Bart Simpson is voiced by a woman. Steewi (talk) 00:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

10 million and 1 billion articles

Are there any statistical projections about when we (en wiki) will have 10 millionth and 1 billionth (if ever) article? Thanks - DSachan (talk) 09:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Ten-million pool. Dismas|^(talk) 10:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and this: Wikipedia:Modelling Wikipedia's growth Dismas|^(talk) 10:12, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

It may never reach 10 million even. Deletionists go around deleting interesting pages like List of fictional characters by IQ as being unencyclopaediac. You'd need an awful lot of non-notable and original research pages as well to get anywhere near the billion mark! Perhaps Deletionpedia will eventuallly reach such dizzying heights. Dmcq (talk) 11:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Seems Deletionpedia has not been updated since December 2008, so I doubt it will get anywhere near there soon. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Well at least wikibin which is a bit more discriminating has List of fictional characters by IQ. ;-) (Don't bother starting an article on wikibin unless you can defend it properly - see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deletionpedia ) Dmcq (talk) 14:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I think we're close to having articles on everything that meets our notability criteria today - since about 2 million articles, it's becoming quite difficult to come up with things that we don't have articles for. I very much doubt that there are 10 million concepts in the world today that are sufficiently notable to warrant articles. However: new, notable, things appear all the time (just today - the North Koreans detonate a nuclear weapon - and voila! We have a new and notable article). So the growth rate will probably flatten out considerably - but I don't see how it can stop altogether. Until that flattening out is actually observed, I don't think we can estimate when we'll hit 10 million articles. It's possible that some unexpected catastropy or technological advance might obsolete or destroy Wikipedia before we get there - but again, there is no way to predict that. Certainly, I don't think you can take the time it took to get to 2.5 million and multiply by four...it's going to take a lot longer than that. If we can't predict the 10 millionth article's creation date with any precision - don't even think about the billionth article. The only thing that MIGHT make a significant difference would be if there were to be some kind of policy change to relax the notability criterion. I think that would actually be quite welcome in the Wikipedia community - and if there were a significant 'levelling off' of new article creation, there might be the political will to make that happen. SteveBaker (talk) 14:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I think that there is the possibility of 4 or 5 million at least. For example concerning notable persons from non-English speaking countries the coverage is still nowhere near the relevant language Wikipedias. A translation of all the notable persons, objects, events etc from the various languaged Wikipedias would easily amount to 1 or 2 million (if the number of articles added to these while this process is going on is added). Then think of all future events, objects and persons that will gain notability in the future, this will also secure a steady increase of articles, although of course not at the same rate as before. --Saddhiyama (talk) 14:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure that article about the North Koreans exploding a nuclear device satisfies WP:N#TEMP. Shouldn't it just be part of a more general article about their nuclear potential? This sort of argument can be applied quite rightly to many old new stories so I'm not sure there is inevitable growth. Dmcq (talk) 15:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree that we'll likely end up in the 4 to 5 million range before the article creation rate starts to significantly level out...but if you think of 10 subjects off the top of your head that would be notable and encyclopeadic - and go look them up - do you find that three quarters of them don't exist? Do you find that half of them don't exist? Personally (and I do a LOT of article searching in answering questions here) - I doubt that one in fifty of the things I search for don't exist.

Notable persons from non-English speaking countries is certainly an area where we are missing articles. But whether they'll EVER be created is also problematic. Getting someone to write these articles AND to reference them properly is going to be tough. It's not just a matter of translating them into English. The standards of referencing and notability in many of the more obscure non-English-language Wikipedia's is appallingly bad. So what may have survived deletion in the Bulgarian Wikipedia might not make the cut in English or German Wikipedia's where patrolling for that kind of thing is much more intense. There may ultimately be holes in our coverage of things that are notable - but without "English language notability". As for the North Korean nuclear test - WP:N#TEMP say that notability is NOT temporary. If this article is considered notable today (and I doubt VERY much that it'll be AfD'ed on grounds of non-notability anytime soon!) - then it's notability is established for all time. It's possible that with the hindsight of history, it might be better rolled up into an article with larger context - but that's not always the case - and that source of article-lossage is pretty well balanced by articles that get too large and have to be split. Often, when a large article is split - there wind up being not two - but half a dozen resulting articles. SteveBaker (talk) 16:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

(after ec)

Wikipedia is excellent in its coverage of subjects that have contemporary and English language Googleable sources, but otherwise it can be quite spotty. For example here are a few thousand subjects that are indisputably notable by current wikipedia standards, but are yet redlinks:

• {{SSBPST recipients in Physical Science}}
• {{SSBPST recipients in Medical Science}}
• {{SSBPST recipients in Mathematical Science}}
• {{SSBPST recipients in Engineering Science}}
• {{SSBPST recipients in Earth, Atmosphere, Ocean & Planetary Sciences}}
• {{SSBPST recipients in Chemical Science}}
• {{SSBPST recipients in Biological Science}}
• Padma Bhushan awardees
• Padma Shri
• Sahitya Akademi Award to Marathi Writers
• Sahitya Akademi Award to Gujarati Writers

I can go on, but I think my point should be clear. Going from 2.5 million to 10 million articles does not necessarily involve diluting the notability standards, but perhaps will need more involvement of editors from non-English speaking countries and overcoming of some other systemic biases that ail current wikipedia topic selection. As for the date ... my best guess is eventually :) Abecedare (talk) 15:08, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

You are assuming that articles about all of those people could be written. Having an article that says "so-and-so worked on such-and-such and got some prize for doing it" isn't enough. You have to write something more about them otherwise they should merely be relegated to "List of SSBPST recipients". In order to write more, you have to find references - if nothing has been written about this person in multiple respectable sources - then that's going to be very difficult. Besides - nobody is denying that there is a likelyhood of another million articles - the question is whether we're only hitting a QUARTER of the notable subjects about which properly referenced articles could be written. You've found "a few thousand" - but that's maybe 0.05% of the number needed to hit 10 million articles. Can you really find me 2,000 lists as long as the one you just presented us with (without duplication)? I very much doubt it. SteveBaker (talk) 16:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

"You are assuming that articles about all of those people could be written." Yes I am, because I know that to be true. People do not win some of India's highest civil awards without having a documented body of work. If you wish I can even list reliable sources that undoubtedly contain biographical material about most of the above listed literary and science awardees.

But, anyway, the point of my post was to illustrate that wikipedia's coverage is highly uneven and that it is not difficult to come up with things that we don't have articles for. I provided examples from India (since I knew exactly where to look) but the situation is similar, if not worse, for topics about China, Eastern Europe, Africa, South America etc. So 10 million articles is not really a stretch.

Finally, I don't think the "think of 10 subjects off the top of your head" and see how many of those are covered by wikipedia is an adequate test. For example, try it for Britannica (which has only 65,000 articles, and <0.5 million indexed terms) and you'll think it is already complete. The fundamental reason the test does not work is that thinking of subjects off the top of our head does not sample the space of all notable subjects uniformly. Regards. Abecedare (talk) 17:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I strongly disagree - back when Wikipedia had around 100,000 articles, it was extremely easy to find things that were not written about - pretty much anyone could find dozens of things to write about. As an owner of a set of Britannica - I can tell you that in most areas of life, it's woefully and obviously inadequate.

As for your Indian civil awards - that may be enough to guarantee passing the notability criteria - but a body of work isn't enough to write a properly referenced biography on that person - we'd need background material - who were the person's parents? What was their childhood like? ...and we need REFERENCES for those things. Without that kind of in-depth detail, you don't have an article - you have a brief entry in a "List of..." article or a table someplace. Furthermore, as I said, a few thousand such people from India doesn't come even close to one million articles - even if every country in the world awarded such things (they certainly do not!) and even if every one of those countries had population sizes comparable to India (which they don't) - there are only about 200 countries times a few thousand articles - you're maybe getting half a million articles that way...nowhere CLOSE to enough to hit the 10 million mark. SteveBaker (talk) 03:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I should add: I do agree with Steve that it will be a looong time before we actually have adequately referenced 10 million articles. We seem to have already picked the low-hanging fruit, and now are are in the long tail of our growth don't you love mixed metaphors :) - which IMO will depend heavily on increasing the (geographic, cultural and specialization) breadth of our contribution. Abecedare (talk)

Each day, Wikipedia gets more and more articles documenting a specific episode of vaguely notable TV shows (etC)... surely this is a more likely way of reaching the 10 million mark? Catoutofthebag (talk) 18:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Not at all! Suppose there were new episodes of TV series made at a rate of one episode per day - it would take 19,662 years to create the needed 7 million new articles that way! There certainly aren't 20 new episodes made every day (assuming you don't count news programs and such) - and even then, we'd be looking at around 1000 years for that source of articles to get us across the magic 10 million line. But beyond that - you have to find something to say about each episode - and you have to back that up from reliable sources - that's pretty tough for the more obscure TV shows. Wikipedia does have extensive episode-by-episode articles for some of the most popular series - but really only for the top few shows. For example - we do have an amazing 441 articles - one for every single episode of "The Simpsons" (and one page for almost every character - and one about running jokes...and so forth) - and there is one article for each episode of "The Sopranos" too. But that's quite misleading - it's certainly not true of every popular series. Take 24 (TV series) - a spectacularly popular TV series. It has a main article - one article about each series - but each show warrants only a single paragraph of synopsis. If something as significant as 24 doesn't get one article per episode - it's not reasonable to assume that much more obscure shows will have them. It's a similar situation with many shows - "The Apprentice" (to pick one at random) - same deal one main article plus one per series. Top Gear - same deal. So I don't think we can get even 100,000 articles this way for the forseeable future. SteveBaker (talk) 03:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

New topics - easy peasy - There are oodles of bugs and bacteria that one could write articles about. Finding reliable sources and people who know enough and have enough access to write said articles - highly unlikely. But we are no where near that desperate yet. My personal "laundry list" contains such mundane and "low hanging" fruit as Color catcher sheet and tension rod. (Please feel free to take them off my plate.) There are still plenty of redlinks for quite ordinary things in the plant and animal kingdoms, too. 71.236.24.129 (talk) 11:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes - but we need SEVEN MILLION...that's an awfully big number. SteveBaker (talk) 20:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

You just have to allow for time to find and describe them all. [10] If you run out there BTW you could go to describing chemical substances. We make between 1500 and 2000 each year. (We barely scratched the surface for those already created and in use.) The various results of protein folding might also be worth an article each to future generations. Given our historical track record for technological progress we create numerous new words, products concepts and named pieces of software each year. I'm also reminded of the "15 minutes of fame" saying which will probably lead to articles on newsworthy people and events. I guess it's going to be a while till we have to resort to bacteria or proteins for material. 71.236.24.129 (talk) 05:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Lets just take it in terms of time. There are 60 minutes in an hour, and 1,440 minutes in a day, so if we created one good article per minute, it would take 694 days, or a bit less than 2 years, to create 1 million articles. To create 7 million new articles at that rate, it would take 13.3 years. If you go to: Special:NewPages and page back about 2 days (to get past all the stuff that gets speedy deleted, then you see that a new worthy article gets created about every minute or so. For example, this page: [11] lists 500 articles created between 12:20, May 25, 2009 and 19:48, May 25, 2009 which is 7*60+28 = 448 minutes, or about one article every 54 seconds or so. So, revise my original estimate. At that rate, it would take 11.9 years to reach 7 million more articles. Looking at the rate of article creation over time, Wikipedia had its 1 millionth article after 5 years (see [12]), which is one article every 2 and a half minutes or so; and had its 2 millionth article after an additional 1.5 years or so (see: [13]) that the 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 rate was rougly one article every 47 seconds. Now, as of this minute, there are give-or-take 2,893,878 articles, and its taken roughly 1 year, 8 months to get those extra 900,000 or so articles, meaning that we are now at a nominal article-creation rate of one article every 53.6 seconds, which is almost exactly what my random sample size showed above. So, Wikipedia grew slow at first, hit a big burst of speed around 2,000,000 articles, and has now plateaued at about one article every 54 seconds, which means we should hit 10,000,000 articles some time in April, 2021. Assuming that rate remains constant. I suspect it will taper off some over time. And we will hit 1 billion articles (at the rate of one article every 54 seconds) in roughly the year 4,009 AD. Give or take a year or two. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Questions about paypal

I'm trying to set up a paypal account so that I can send a friend a small amount of money to his paypal account. I have some questions

1. How long do the transfers take?
2. Is it possible to use a prepaid credit card to send money with through paypal?
3. Will my personal details be viewable to the other person when I send the money?

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Questions needs answers111 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

What did Paypal say when you emailed them? 86.3.22.178 (talk) 15:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, the PayPal help section is pretty wretched. On this page, PayPal says "We keep your bank and credit card details private from sellers." Your name and address are shown, however, if memory serves. The transfer of money from your PayPal account to your friend's PayPal account is immediate; if your friend wants to transfer the money from PayPal to his bank account, then I think it takes 3 or 4 days. Not sure about prepaid credit cards, sorry. Tempshill (talk) 23:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Paypal is pretty simple in the way it works. Even better if the recipient has a premium or business account (still free, but they take fees through paypal to paypal transfers as well instead of a monthly fee)

1. Transfers are immediate, but withdrawing can take additional time depending on the method. The first time I transferred to my bank account it took over a week. As I did it more, it took around 2 to 3 days.
2. If the prepaid card is through a company that paypal accepts credit payments from, you may do this. However, you are less likely to have problems with paypal if you use a verified bank account to withdraw money.
3. Personal details such as your address are generally viewable. However, this depends on the method of giving money and the requirements of the particular form or request for money. It will tell you what information wil be seen on your receipt.

As a tip, verify everything in your account and you are unlikely to have paypal take the money or hassle you in any way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.131.39.6 (talk) 15:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

why is it we hear more stories about people being shot dead than animals?

do less animals get shot dead, or are they better at surviving gunshots, or do the media cover up animals shootings? Catoutofthebag (talk) 18:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Because people are more interested in shootings of people than animals, which happen all the time. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:12, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

If you were to understand whale songs, your perception of newsworthy massacres and slaughters may be a different one. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Private Eye Magazine - Eye Need...

As an occasional reader of Private Eye i'm always intrigued by the 'eye need' part of the magazine. Is there any examples of people getting a response to their request? Example one includes:

"Struggling student: require £5,000 to pay fees: NatWest XX-XX-XX XXXXXXX" (where Xs is the account number and sort-code).

or

"YOUNG, GIFTED VIOLIST with a guaranteed place at London's Guildhall School of Music and Drama desperately needs funding to complete her studies. Needs 12K. Will even play for you! XXXXXXX NatWest XX-XX-XX XXXX" (removed phone/sort-code/account number).

Many of them are quite comical and so i'm assuming they are a joke, but some of them seem to be potentially real (or at least I don't get the joke). Anyone know if they are real or fake? (And if real do they get responders?). (Link http://www.eyeadvertise.co.uk/?section=classified&catid=13 )ny156uk (talk) 19:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

As someone who's been involved in fundraising for registered charities in the past, I've often wondered this myself. Private Eye does have a smallish circulation, but it's a pretty affluent one, and the lineage ads are fairly inexpensive. I often considered placing such an ad for a genuine cause (as opposed to the usual gamut of hard luck stories and possible charlatans, such as those you cite) but never got round to it. I'd be fascinated if anyone has hard info on this. --Dweller (talk) 10:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I've often wondered if these are parody or real, I'm occasionally tempted to call one of the numbers. I'm afraid I have no information from you, so consider this response just me adding myself to your question. 91.85.138.20 (talk) 14:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I've always wondered about these too, and have occasionally been tempted to give some money to those with the more heart-wrenching stories (but I've always been a soft touch!) There was an article about charitable giving in The Guardian at the beginning of the month [14], where the writer contacted several people who advertised to see whether they had received any responses/donations. Apparently, the answer was a pretty resounding no, at least as far as getting money was concerned. Actually, it seems someone at The Guardian is quite invested in getting the answer to this, as they also had a go at contacting Eye Need advertisers in 2000; again they apparently didn't find anyone who had gotten money.[15] --Kateshortforbob 11:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

What the heck are these things?

Mystery things

What could they be?

Any idea what these things could be? I found them at a garage sale in California, and I've spotted a couple of them online (eBay and such) but none of the sellers know what they are either. They're made of brass, with some dense wood on the handle; the longest is about 6 inches (15 cm) long. The tips are not spoon-like; they seem more like the instruments are to be pressed down on something. The reverse (behind the Buddha) says "Willy Made In Siam".

Any informed guesses? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 23:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a Hair stick to me. Nanonic (talk) 23:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Could be. But why would they come in a graduated set? And what's the purpose of the blunted end? Hair sticks are usually pointed. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 23:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Google Willy Siam and check the first ghit. They are ornamental letter openers. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 02:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I found that too - but look closely - it has a blade - jpgordon's don't. SteveBaker (talk) 03:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow! This is a good one! A couple of places I found claim that the handles are made of ivory. One points out that they must have been made before 1949 because that's the year Siam became Thailand. This is an interesting lead - it has an identical-looking end and handle - but with a blade instead of the rounded rod - the claim is that this bladed form is a letter opener - which I have to agree with. OK - but it's otherwise identical to your 'sticks'. So I wonder if these are used in a similar office setting? SteveBaker (talk) 03:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Intriguing indeed! Found some more instruments apparently made by the same company, but still have no idea what they or the "mystery thing" is. JPgordan, can you post higher resolution pictures of the instrument tips ? Abecedare (talk) 03:53, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh - jeez - that just makes things worse! So they made letter openers and tableware with matching handles - that just means that they might have made almost anything else with the same handles - so these things may not be used in either an office or a tableware setting. Argh! The fact that these artifacts come in three sizes (and one of the online sellers of these things had a boxed set of two that were also different sizes - so they were obviously sold like this)...that's gotta be a clue. SteveBaker (talk) 04:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

More pictures (with names) of the tableware: [16], [17]. The mystery objects don't seem to be part of the set. Abecedare (talk) 04:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to get better pics tomorrow. More info -- I think these were three of a set of four; they came in two boxes, and I think one "thing" was missing. I do so love mysteries like this. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 05:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

This is just a wild guess, but: I dimly remember seeing a film of an artist (Japan ? / calligraphy ? / silk painting ?) using similar sticks in his art work. The tip has a hollow sleeve and is used to insert the appropriate sized brush or nib or whatever. Unfortunately, Googling does not show any examples of such a tool. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 06:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they are for eating nuts. You insert the correct end into the newly cracked nut to pry out the contents. We are a very evolved species. Bus stop (talk) 06:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Can you make a photo of one of those things from the side? Letter openers are blade-shaped and flat, these things would seem to be round. Also, I think the pointed tip is more important than the ornamental handle. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:29, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Those things might date back to the point in time at which man broke away from his animal ancestors. This may be the proof of evolution we've been looking for. Bus stop (talk) 06:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I might not be able to get to a photo today -- it's a trans-Death-Valley commute day for me and the photographer. But: the ends are solid cylinders, not pointed, flat perpendicular to the axis of the rod (and the rod is also completely cylindrical, round in cross-section for the entire length including the end.) I do like Bus stop's theory, however, even though it implies man broke away from his animal ancestors, which the photographer and I question (she says woman may have done so, but she doesn't think man has yet.) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 14:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Are they some sort of weaving/knitting needle, macrame comes to mind, yes I know macrame does not normally use a needle, I'm grabbing at anything! On the other side of the spectrum the shape of the shaft and tip reminds me somewhat of a urological probe or ear wax remover, yes I know, but I can't help my previous experience. Richard Avery (talk) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Again - the problem with this theory is the question of why you would want weaving/knitting needles, urological probes or ear-wax removers in a range of subtly different lengths? SteveBaker (talk) 20:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

A graduated set of smooth-ended long probes suggests they might be medical sounds which would be successively introduced in the Urethra for Urethral sounding to restore urine flow (or for whatever reason). Edison (talk) 19:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Urethral probes, beautifully decorated to match your letter opener and tableware? There must be some amazing cultural differences in Thailand! :-) But why the three subtly different lengths? (Oh - wait. OK - on the other hand, I don't want to know!) SteveBaker (talk) 20:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Question: We know they are different lengths - and that's very puzzling - but is it possible that the protruberances on the ends are different diameters? That might be a significant clue. SteveBaker (talk) 20:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Nope. They're all identical. And of course I can't take any more photos until Saturday, since I left them in Kernville, CA. And, no, these sure aren't going into any urethras. And since they're blunt ended, they're not going to scraping anything. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 22:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

When you say "handle" in your OP, which end are you talking about, the buddha end, or the weird-shaped bit at the bottom of pic#1? And when you say "pressed down", this can't mean a force exerted transaxially at one end producing a force at the other end, they're much too slender for that. Even an axial force from one end to the other is questionable.

I'm wildly guessing something to do with ear (or possibly nose) cleaning at this point. The difference in length would affect the precision with which you could clean the ear canal, depending on how big the ear was. Franamax (talk) 23:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's a pointer, for reading holy texts. Bus stop (talk) 01:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

may be used as Toothpick or Cocktail stick - manya (talk) 03:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

or even better as Hair stick - manya (talk) 03:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Sure, a toothpick for people who have 1/4 inch gaps between their teeth. Oh, good idea regarding being a pointer; the blunt end might be to prevent from tearing fragile material. When I say handle, I mean the part with the Buddha and the wood/laminate/horn/whatever dark part riveted there. No, they aren't slender -- they're quite sturdy, not easily bendable. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 04:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Who the heck needs three pointers, three nose pickers or three ear cleaners all in different lengths?!?! We know they were sold in boxed sets with 2 or four of them in different lengths. SteveBaker (talk) 18:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Since we seem to have narrowed the objects down to having something to do with Thailand, you might get lucky by asking at Project Thailand. Since most of the other similar items were tableware, these might be used in a loop to hold rolls of tablecloth together or something like that. We have no page for toggle=button. (another wild guess, I'm afraid.) 71.236.24.129 (talk) 06:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I've asked at Wikiproject Thailand Nil Einne (talk) 17:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I've decided to guess that they are cocktail stirrers. Different lengths for tall, medium or short glasses. Rounded ends so that they don't scratch the glassware. That fits with the tableware theme too. I bet I'm wrong though...this is a tough one! SteveBaker (talk) 18:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The issue for me with that is that would imply you use the Buddha end to stir. To me this seems unlikely (it seems more likely to be the handle), but I could be wrong Nil Einne (talk) 19:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

For sure the skinny end is the end you'd have to stir with - all of the other utensils in the range have the same handles as these objects. But do a google images search on "cocktail stirrer" and you'll see gazillions of different stirrers - mostly with fancy decorated handles and a simple 'bulge' at the business end. SteveBaker (talk) 22:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

If they did not come in sets of 3, I would have guessed chopsticks. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

No! Chopsticks of different lengths?! SteveBaker (talk) 22:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I am now convinced that these are the Thai analogs of the Chinese water torture. In the 1940s they used to leave the three sticks in a prisoner's cell, who would drive himself insane trying to imagine what purpose they could possibly serve. The blunt ends prevented him from using them for any nefarious purpose; the Willy mark is a (cunningly misspelled) clue. With the advent of the internets, simple photographs of the instruments suffice. That's my theory and I am sticking with it! Abecedare (talk) 04:11, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

May 26

Shoe Polish

Does neutral shoe polish work to make white shoes shiny? --omnipotence407 (talk) 02:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes - or any other color for that matter. It's basically just a wax and it works like car wax by filling in the tiny cracks and crevices and making a smooth surface that reflects light more effectively. Colored shoe polishes will also dye the surface if a scratch or scrape goes deep enough into the leather to get below the colored layer. SteveBaker (talk) 03:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Utilitarianism

I've read the articles on utilitarianism, moral relativism, and moral absolutism, but still they don't say or mention whether utilitarianism is a form of moral relativism or moral absolutism. So is utilitarianism a form of moral relativism or a form of moral absolutism? Bowei Huang (talk) 05:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

These are all concepts. Why would one concept be a form of another? Bus stop (talk) 06:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

It claims to be a form of moral relativism, because every circumstance must be taken new without preset rules. However, critics claim that it actually works by applying it's one rule (greatest good...) to each circumstance, so it has an 'absolutist core'. True moral relativism claims there is no such thing as good and evil, and utilitarianism does somewhat do this. It's debatable is the answer, so wikipedia which requires neutrality and consensus steers clear.

And Bus Stop, the reason one is a form of the other is because of the scope of each concept. Utilitarianism is an ethical code, Absolutism and relativism are Meta-Ethics so are codes about codes. 91.85.138.20 (talk) 14:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Staple gun

What's the best brand of Staple gun for home use? --PirateSmackK^Arrrr! 06:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

We don't really do opinions here. So, unless you can objectively define "best" then it would be hard to answer you with anything worth your while. That said, I have a Stanley staple gun and I don't have any complaints about it. It does an excellent job holding down papers. It only does an average job gathering dust though. About the same as any other inanimate object. ;-) You could check with your local library to see if they have a copy of Consumer Reports that has staple gun ratings in it. Dismas|^(talk) 09:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

There are two big distinctions you need to decide upon: Electric versus manual - and whether you want the staples bent flat (as when stapling three sheets of paper together) or whether you want them left in a 'U' shape (as when stapling fabric onto furniture). I've owned several different kinds over the years and there isn't one particular one that I'd say was any better or worse than the others. SteveBaker (talk) 20:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

words that alternate hands on keyboard

I'm looking for a long, comprehensive list of words that when typed on a QWERTY keyboard alternate the use of hands. Examples: antiskepticism, authenticity, neurotoxity —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.156.30 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

What is the purpose of this list? One could be generated fairly easily. decltype (talk) 07:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

A list can be found at User:decltype/Words. The examples you listed are not there, however, because I only had a small dictionary. 1783 words out of the 80269 in my dictionary meets the criterion. decltype (talk) 08:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

If you have something Unixish:

grep -i '^[yuiophjklnm][qwertasdfgzxcvb][yuiophjklnm][qwertasdfgzxcvb]$' /usr/dict/words

will find four letter words that start with the right hand. Add alternating [...] sequences for longer words. Start with the "qwert" group instead of "yuiop" for left-handed words. May want to move "b" and "g" to the other group depending which handedness you consider them. You can prepend "anti" to many left-handed words; keep an eye out for more prefixes and suffixes. Both grep and /usr/dict/words may be available for non-Unix system too; ask google. 88.114.222.252 (talk) 10:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

• You can extend that technique to words of any length by doing

r="[yuiophjklnm]"

l="[qwertasdfgzxcvb]"

egrep -i "^($r($l$r)*$l|$l($r$l)*$r?)\$" /usr/dict/words

egrep -i "^($r($l$r)*$l?|$l($r$l)*$r?)\$" /usr/dict/words

On this system, with 235,882 words in the dictionary file (here called /usr/share/dict/words), this finds 2,622 hits from length 1 to 13 letters, the longest words being "antiendowment", "antisudorific", "autotoxicosis", and "dismantlement". However, this method will not pick up inflected forms unless the online dictionary file lists them separately. For example, it will find "protogospel" but not "protogospels". Also, online word lists meant for general purposes will not likely include the exotic sort of words that tend to provide the best answers to this sort of question, anyway. --Anonymous, 17:02 UTC, May 26, 2009. (Corrected later, see below.)

Your regex seems to miss words that start and end with the right hand. I think "^$l?($r$l)*$r?\$" will catch everything. -- BenRG (talk) 22:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Damn, I missed a ? when converting from the original to the two-alternative version. Sorry about that and thanks for the correction, Ben. I've corrected my code above; it now produces 3,139 hits (the longest words are still the same four as I said above). Your version produces the same hits but will also match a completely empty line, so it takes advantage of the fact that we know there aren't any in the file, which I preferred not to do. --Anonymous, 00:05 UTC, May 26, 2009.

Note: that should be "neurotoxicity". here is one list with more examples. ---Sluzzelin talk 10:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I was going to make the same point yesterday, but I thought I'd better check. Google gives over 15,000 hits for "neurotoxity", some of which are probably errors, but it seems to be a recognised word. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

FYI, the longest such Wikipedia articles are Euroskepticism, Hanaiakamalama, Helanshanensis, and Dorkrockcorkrod. --Sean 18:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Sean, how did you do that? auto / decltype (talk) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

You can download a list of all article titles at http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/latest/enwiki-latest-all-titles-in-ns0.gz. Grepping through that turned up two longer titles, Rubyrubyrubyruby and Bobobobobobobobo, though they are mere redirects to Ruby (song) and Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo. -- BenRG (talk) 22:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I've loaded a DB dump into MySQL, so I can do SQL queries against it. I didn't list the longer ones BenRG mentioned because the Ruby one seemed bogus, and the Bobo one had punctuation which messed up the left-right alternation. --Sean 17:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Recent temperatures in the city of Paris

No doubt this is relatively easy to find, and I'm just being thick, but where can I find a list of recent (say the last week or two) daily high temperatures for the city of Paris? Thanks in advance --Dweller (talk) 09:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Wunderground carry records back to 1996. Quite handy that. Fribbler (talk) 11:24, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I had thought the max temperatures were warmer on Sunday and Monday of this week, than those recorded there, by several degrees C. Is there a way of double checking? --Dweller (talk) 12:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

You coult try Météo-France here. My French isn't very good at all though, so I find it hard to use. Fribbler (talk) 12:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes Meteo France is perhaps the best bet, but to correct Fribbler's link, here is the link to the weather and temperature for the last week. Astronaut (talk) 17:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, my knowledge of French is non-existent. Fribbler (talk) 19:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Merci, to you all. --Dweller (talk) 11:29, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Psychology video

I was watching a video in psychology class that had Phillip Zimbardo in it (the video, not my class) and it was about visual perception and they showed a video of a fake robbery or something where everyones wearing black and some guy shoots another guy and you think its one guy who shot him but it turns out to be another, and the video is supposed to show that eye-witnesses can be unrealiable. Does anyone have a link to the fake shooting video? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 13:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't - but here is something much more convincing! [18] (Please: People who have seen it before - please refrain from explaining what's in it in too much detail - because it spoils the effect for other people). SteveBaker (talk) 20:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

That page doesn't give the instructions for what to do while watching the video, so it doesn't work. You are supposed to count how many times to balls are thrown or something, isn't it? --Tango (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Ack! I didn't actually watch it again. Let me see if I can find a better link. The idea is: "I encourage you view this Java video of a basketball game and try to count the total number of times that the people wearing white pass the basketball. Do not count the passes made by the people wearing black."...then come back and we'll tell you what to do next. SteveBaker (talk) 23:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, those instructions should work. Does somebody that didn't click the link before seeing the instructions (be honest!) want to try it out? --Tango (talk) 22:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It worked perfectly on my wife. SteveBaker (talk) 05:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't know the video, but it's true that many eyewitnesses can be extremely unreliable, and that tendency can be increased in all sorts of ways. For example, if someone witnesses a crime and sees the perpetrator, and a police officer asks the witness what kind of a hat the perp was wearing, suddenly the witness can "remember" the type and color of hat -- even though the guy wasn't actually wearing one at all. To get an accurate description, it's important to not inadvertently suggest the witness details. As I recall, David Simon's absolutely fascinating book Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets discusses this phenomenon at some length. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

So, I counted 14 passes by those in white. Do I pass or fail? // BL \\ (talk) 03:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I put a proper answer on your Talk page so that people who haven't watched the video yet won't have the effect spoiled for them. SteveBaker (talk) 05:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

US politicians education background

I am trying to find out the college backgrounds of members of the US House and Senate. Rather than going into all ~550 individual articles, can anyone suggest a way to get this information at a glance?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.223.163.109 (talk) 23:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Wire-bound congressional directories like this one are popular on the Hill; they list colleges for each member. Your local library might have one or might order a new one if you ask. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Nike founder, Phil Knight, is a Portland, Oregon native. I'm trying to find out precisely where he grew up in Portland

What is the address of Nike founder, Phil Knight's, childhood home? What is the address of the (now defunct) Pink Bucket Tavern, which, according to a Sports Illustrated article, was next door to where Knight first sold his prototype Nike shoes? 65.161.188.11 (talk) 23:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

If no one has the answer here, call a large library in Portland and ask if they have phone books or city directories going back to the year in question. Then ask them to look up the address of the tavern. As far as where he grew up, it looks like his dad's name was William W. Knight, so it's simply a matter of going back to the appropriate era and finding William W. Knight in the phone book or city directory. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Many libraries have a reference desk accessible through their web site. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, here is the link for the online "Ask a Librarian" service of the Portland central library. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

May 27

Résumé question

Years ago, I authored an op-ed for a software development magazine. Since then, the publication has changed its name. Is it acceptable to use the new name of the magazine on your résumé? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Why not indicate both names? Just say "Authored op-ed piece for Awesome Magazine (known since 2002 as Coolness Journal)" or something like that. No need to be obfuscatory... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

To be frank, I'd rather use the new name of the publication as this is the current name and the name that most people would be familiar with. Anyway, here's some background information. I have a list of publications on my resume. The name of each publication is in bold-face and in a slightly larger font. An explanatory description is provided underneath with a regular font and without bold-faceing. Somewhat attempting to follow your advice, here's how my résumé currently looks:

MAGAZINE'S NEW NAME
I authored an op-ed on TOPIC A for MAGAZINE'S NEW NAME then known (formally known as MAGAZINE'S OLD NAME).  My two main areas of focus were on the importance of SUB-TOPIC-1 and SUB-TOPIC-2."

Is this acceptable? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 02:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why not. Look, no one is going to bust you on having this one entry formatted right. The purpose of a resume is not to check you adherance to some "resume format" and you get docked "points" if you don't do it exactly right. The purpose of a resume is to get you an interview. That's it. If the information sets you apart enough to get someone to notice you enough to call you in for an interview, then it has served its purpose 100%. It doesn't matter a whole lot whether you list the old name first or the new name first. Whatever makes you more comfortable, and whatever you think does the best job of getting someone to put you in the "interview this guy" pile rather than the "recycle bin". --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

A word to the wise: make sure you use the right word. In the example you give, the word is "formerly". "Formally" implies it has a formal name. For example, my nickname is TammyMoet, but I am formally known as Mrs Pampling. I was formerly known by my maiden name of Barratt. --88.108.222.231 (talk) 11:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

How about just "formally MAGAZINE'S OLD NAME"? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 13:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you should use formally at all. If you used formally it would mean that the magazine has two current names, one formal and one informal (for example the US is formally known as the United States of America). What you mean is that the magazine changed its name, so it was formerly know by another name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eiad77 (talk • contribs) 13:58, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

"Formally" is not the right word at all. You're looking for "Formerly". Two Rs. One L. APL (talk) 14:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Doh! Thanks. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 14:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I would say "New Name (then Old Name)". "Formerly" doesn't tell you if the name change was before or after you wrote for it. --Tango (talk) 22:41, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Stopping the Car

So I did my road test the other day and my instructor told me that when approaching a stop sign or a red light, say I'm on 4th gear, I need to downshift gear-by-gear until I reach 1st gear before coming to a complete stop. Seriously? Does anybody actually do this? What I did was what she called "coasting", where I hit the brake and once my engine begins to lug, I pop it into neutral. Jamesino (talk) 02:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I just put the foot down on both pedals until reaching a complete stop. I generally will shift down into the appropriate gear based on my speed, without engaging it, so I coast with the car completely disengaged via the clutch pedal, but I keep the gearshift lever in the appropriate gear, should I have to suddenly engage. I generally don't like using the transmission to slow down the car instead of the brakes, which is what you seem to be implying is being recommended here. Why? Worn out brake pads: $50.00 plus 1 hour labor. Worn out transmission: $1000.00 plus 4 hours labor. You do the math. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

(ec)I undertook driving lessons in the UK recently and this was actively discouraged both by my instructor and later by the examiner when I took the test. The reasons they gave me were

1. By moving from the current gear down to 1st; I would be keeping the car straight or moving between lanes with the one hand whilst braking with one foot and depressing the clutch with the other, using the gear stick to select each gear and also looking ahead for hazards and slowing traffic. That's a bit much for anyone to do in the 1-200 yards approach to a junction or roundabout with the car's centre of gravity moving forward evermore as the vehicle decelerates. It's even worse if there is an unexpected hazard or if the road is slippery. I was taught to approach the junction in whatever gear is safe at that time, usually downshifting to 2nd (as you may only have to slow down momentarily before pulling away again) if there is time and selecting 1st when stopped if necessary.
2. Disc brakes work a lot better than the old drum brakes, are more reliable and are very effective at stopping a car. Some road authorities used to recommend engine braking to offset the 'sponginess' of drums back in the day, it's just not necessary now.

As to coasting, I got a big black mark for that as it's not the done thing to be moving without being in gear. I experienced an acceleration in some cases when moving in neutral (especially downhill) and was thus deemed to not be in full control of the vehicle.

Of course this is mostly "somebody told me.." info and from a different country but still... Nanonic (talk) 02:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)`

Oh and by 'approach in whatever gear is safe at that time' I do mean if you're in 4th, stop in 4th - the thing that matters is that you pull away in the correct gear. Nanonic (talk) 03:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You certainly shouldn't slow down in a high gear with your foot off of the clutch until the engine revs are so low that you have to put your foot on the clutch. As the engine RPM drops, below about 2000 rpm - you are "lugging" - which is damaging the engine...very bad indeed...don't ever do that!

On the other hand, if you stay in a high gear and put your foot on the clutch while the revs are still reasonably high to prevent the RPM's from dropping then you are indeed coasting - and that's also bad because you have no control over the car's engine - in the event of some kind of problem, you can't easily drop into the right gear to accellerate away because you'll have no clear idea of the right gear for the current RPM's. Coasting is dangerous...so that's out too.

Hence, downshifting is DEFINITELY needed - it's safer and it prolongs the life of your engine. There should be no debate about this - and your driving tester was 100% correct in complaining about your failure to do that.

However, when I slow down, I don't go through every gear - and I never wind up in 1st gear. The reason for not winding up in first is somewhat quirky. It's because I drive a lot of old British cars (from the 1960's) and they don't have synchromesh on 1st gear. If you try to downshift a classic Mini or MG into 1st while it's still in motion, you'll wreck the gearbox! But on modern cars, this isn't a problem. So unless you plan on getting hooked on small British cars from the 50's and 60's - don't worry about it! But shifting down from (say) 6th through 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd and into 1st in a 6-speed transmission is a lot of work - and it's distracting at a time when your attention is needed - and it takes your hand off of the steering wheel more than is necessary at a time when you might well have to manouver suddenly. So I tend to use alternate gears when downshifting. 6th/4th/2nd/neutral. But even that is somewhat misleading. On a fast road, in 6th gear - I'll downshift into 5th or 4th as I pull off onto the slip-road. So long before I have to stop - I'm probably already in 4th. So in truth, I stay in gear - let the RPM drop off - and when they get close to 2000 RPM - I drop into 2nd gear - and stay there until the revs are again - close to 2000 - then (if I've gotten it right) - I can apply brake and clutch for the last 10 to 15 feet up to the line. Doing it smoothely is a matter of planning...after a while it becomes instinctive - but sadly, you have to take your test before you've gotten that off pat.

HOWEVER - how you drive on your test is how you have to drive to pass it. A good driving instructor will tell you that you need to do such-and-such in order to pass the test - but in normal driving, you'd do some other thing. A great example is the three point turn and the reversing around a corner thing - those are about convincing the tester that you have control of the car - it has nothing to do with manouvers you commonly have to do in daily driving. It sounds like this is another example of that. SteveBaker (talk) 04:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Steve, you drive small british cars, so I understand that you'd rarely need to do a three point turn. I learned to drive in Toyota Landcruiser Troop Carrier 4WD. Vehicles like can't often do a U-turn. --Polysylabic Pseudonym (talk) 06:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Even in a 'standard' length of car, you can usually turn around in a road that's too narrow to U-turn by first reversing then driving forwards and away...a '2-point turn'. But the UK drivers test specifically requires that you start the manouver by going forwards - and that ends up forcing you to do a 3-point turn. Lots of people never learn to do a 2-point turn and continue to do it the inefficient way. But the test isn't making sure you know how to turn the car around in the road - it's making sure you have the skills to keep control of the car and not hit the curb as you move back and forth across the cambered road. SteveBaker (talk) 18:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I think it's been renamed to a "turn in the road" rather than 3 point (since you can do more than 3 points to your turn). I do find it an odd-one. In my 8 years driving I don't think i've ever done a 3-point turn. I virtually always just drive to the next road and make a turn at the next junction (reverse round a corner I think they call it on the test). Anyhoo like SteveBaker says, it's all about what the examiner wants you to do to show you can control the car and are a safe road user. Once you have your test you can't just ignore the rules, but some things (e.g. parralel parking) people will never want to do again after they get a license. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah - I think it was formally called that since the beginning - but 'three point turn' was always the colloquial name for it. SteveBaker (talk) 18:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It probably depends where you live (size of roads and whether they have good places to turn around) and the type of car. I've done a million of them. Ditto parallel paring — if you live in high-density, very urban areas you have to know how to do that without even thinking about it. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You don't normally do parallel parking? Really? Good luck driving in KL or Auckland them... I also believe you'd general fail if you need to do more then 3 points for your turn here in NZ. They may give you an exception with a very large car and narrow road but I wouldn't count on it (more likely they'd choose a road when they feel you should be able to manage it). I don't drive much but I can see the need for a 3 point turn in some NZ roads particularly with larger cars. (Well obviously no one cares if it takes more then 3 points when your actually driving.) Driving to the end to find a place to turn, on a quiet road, particularly if you do it every day seems a fairly pointless waste of time to me. In reply to the question, I was thought to downshift and so you end up in 2nd gear when stopping, not first. Nil Einne (talk) 15:19, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You were probably taught to drive in an era before synchomesh-on-1st-gear was commonplace too. It really is necessary to be utterly stationary before shifting into 1st with such older cars - I do hope the driving testers and instructors know to teach that if people are still taking their tests in beat-up old 1970's or older Mini's because it makes a god-awful grinding noise if you do try to downshift into 1st while moving. When I got my 1963 Mini - the very first time my wife drove it she did that very thing before even getting out of our driveway! She's never driven it since (her choice - not mine). Some people can use the double-declutch trick to get the car into 1st while moving - but I don't like to risk my poor babies' 46 year old gearbox by practicing it! 18:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe in the UK driving test a "turn in the road" is allowed to take as many points as is necessary for the width of the road and the length of the car. I can't see an examiner asking you to do one somewhere that wasn't wide enough to do it in 3 points, though (unless, for some reason, you decided to do your test in a stretch limo, which you are probably allowed to do). --Tango (talk) 22:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I seem to remember hearing (terrible start to a ref desk answer, I apologise!) that the official guidance in the UK has recently (last 10 years) changed and you are no longer expected to work your way down through all the gears, but were before. I think you are now taught to change straight down into second (which, to be honest, in most cases would only involve skipping 3rd, as Steve says above) as you approach the junction, then put the clutch down as you stop (if you need to stop - you stay in 2nd if you don't) and immeadiately (before stopping) change into first (so you are ready to pull away again straight away). I haven't actually gotten around to learning to drive yet, though - I got half way there last year and then stopped for exams and didn't take it up again. I intend to do so this summer, so remind me and I will let you know the official advice! --Tango (talk) 22:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

architect and anthropologist

hi, i want to be an architect and i am from india. so please could anyone tell me whether i should pursue studying science or humanities??

my friend here wants to be an anthropologist. so it would be nice of you tell him what he should pursue.

thanx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.250.135 (talk) 05:58, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Both require a bit of both. To ask such a question probably implies that you should not already have made up your minds on your eventual careers. That is my short answer.Julzes (talk) 07:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I largely agree with Julzes. Since I have a degree in anthropology, I'll try to handle that part. The answer really depends on two things - the kind of anthropology you want to do and how your potential university(ies) consider it. Most anthropology is geared heavily toward the humanities, but there are sub-disciplines that are much more science oriented (archaeology, physical anthropology, palaeo-anthropology). In very generic terms, the question you need to ask yourself is whether you want to study people physically (which requires more science) or whether you're more interesting in understanding what people do (which requires a background in humanities). Matt Deres (talk) 13:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Are there not courses for both subjects in India? Very few undergraduate teaching departments for archeology or anthropology would be so specialised as to prevent postponing a decision about which sub-area to specialise in. eg. Any general anthropology degree should qualify you for further study in the areas you find more interesting. If you want to know about what to study in school, university departments usually specify which subjects they prefer, but this is not especially stringent - few courses mandate more than 2 subjects, and are always flexible. eg. A physics degree may demand school-level physics and maths, but the 3rd and 4th subjects are then not important (although grades still count!)

A quick search find for example in UK, this anthropology course, which is very science orientated, but doesn't care whether you have chemistry or biology, as long as you have one. And this, which does not specify any subject, but prefers a "mix of arts and sciences". From those i checked, biology is the most asked for school subject, followed by chemistry - but this may only reflect the lack of good sociology/anthopology education at UK schools ("core" subjects are generally more common and better regarded there.YobMod 13:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• To the original poster: Can you specify what grade of schooling, and state you are currently in ? Do you have any specific architecture institutes or programs in mind ?
• To others: India (generally) follows a 10+2+3 plan for most fields of study (10+2+5 for B.Arch, although there are post-graduate alternatives too) and students usually have to decide the "stream of study" they wish to choose at both the +2 (i.e., equivalent to Junior year in highschool in US) and the +3 (i.e., entry into undergraduate degree programs) level. At either stages one cannot (again generally) choose from an a la carte menu, but needs to decide on a stream of study (eg, science, commerce arts etc), and the choice one makes at each of these stages limits the courses of study one can undertake later. The system is much less flexible that the US/European model, and therefore one does need to plan on a course of education well in advance - especially if one desires admission in one of the premier institutions, which have strict eligibility requirements and (often) competitive entrance exams. The specifics vary from state-to-state and some premier institutions set their own admission policy. That is the reason it is important to know what level of schooling the OP is at and what (state/national) institutes they are considering, in order to provide a specific answer to the question. Abecedare (talk) 02:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

UK Driving License

Is it legal for someone to drive solo on private land in the UK without a license? I hear about this all the time in news from the US, about kids as young as 7 driving cars on their parents' ranch and so on. What is the situation in the UK? Specifically, what about factory workers in car factories driving cars off the trim line and into the depot? I'm asking this because that was part of my father's job and he has never had a driver's license. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 07:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes it is legal and our article says "As a licence is required to drive on a public road, any person may drive on private land with the consent of the landowner, but it is illegal - regardless of any licence - to drive on any common public land, such as moorland." This is especially useful for farmers who have many people using their machinery etc and as you suggest - car factory workers. Most car parks are also owned privately by companies or stores and deemed to not be "public roadways" as well as any road not maintained by the Highways Agency or local authorities. Nanonic (talk) 10:41, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

There is a further exception for farmers, I think - an agricultural vehicle being driven a short way along a road to get from one field to another (I'm not sure of the exact limitations) doesn't fall under the usual rules. They don't have to pay fuel duty, they don't need MOTs, etc. and, I think, they don't need a drivers license (although I wouldn't swear by that one). --Tango (talk) 11:58, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

So does that mean I can give my niece some driving experience before she has even applied for a licence, by letting her drive my car round a supermarket carpark (long after the store has closed, on Sunday evenings for example)? Astronaut (talk) 16:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It said "with the consent of the landowner". DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You might also want to check the terms of your insurance policy. It probably covers you for teaching another person to drive - but probably not if they don't have a provisional license. Either way...CHECK IT CAREFULLY! SteveBaker (talk) 17:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you need insurance to drive on private land? If so does that render illegal all those 10 year olds being given a 1 minute drive on the front driveway? Prokhorovka (talk) 22:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You only need insurance if they crash your car (at which point you, of course, claim you were driving and the insurance company is none the wiser The Wikipedia reference desk does not condone insurance fraud.). --Tango (talk) 22:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

No way that you can let her drive round a Tesco car park. CottonGrass (talk) 22:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Tango should note that a woman in Scotland was recently fined for doing just that, a short drive on public roads, from a field to another, without a licence.--81.170.40.155 (talk) 06:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

It is entirely possible that Scottish law is different from English and Welsh law in that respect. Do you have the details (or a link to the story)? What vehicle was she driving? --Tango (talk) 07:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Wartime crossdressers

What is a catchy title I can call my English essay about women who pretended to be men to join the army?? I know I'm supposed to think of it myself but I decided "Dude Looks Like A Lady" was in bad taste... --124.254.77.148 (talk) 07:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

"Real Life Mulans"? (As in the basic story that the film is based on is a girl pretending to be a boy to join the army). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

"Dressed to Kill"? Maybe list of wartime crossdressers can be of assistance. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Sluzzelin's first answer is the best title by far - use that. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Love it, thank you! :) --124.254.77.148 (talk) 10:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Which war? Don't forget about Joan of Arc. --Dweller (talk) 11:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

One that's been done is Monstrous Regiment. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Sweet Polly Oliver is a handy example, but Sluzzelin's is probably the best ;) 80.41.18.94 (talk) 18:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Since women wanting to be soldiers in long bygone wars had to conceal their boobs by wrapping something tight around them, how about "Bound for Glory?" Edison (talk) 04:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Or, on the same theme, 'Berlin Or Bust'? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 08:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Free as in FREE ringtones

If you Google "free ringtones" you get lots of sites, but as far as I can tell, they're all bait and switch, or they want your email and other personal info so they can sell you to mailing lists and so on. Does anyone have any links for actually free ringtones in the true sense of the word? —173.68.38.218 (talk) 18:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Depending on your phone model and carrier, you should be able to email mp3s to your phone. If you don't know your phone's email address, you can send an email from your phone to your personal email account. (my phones email is: mynumber@mms.att.net) Send an email to your phone with the mp3 as an attachment, save the contents to wherever ringtones are stored, and voila. This also works for pictures (phone wallpapers) and video. Again, this will depend on your phone and carrier, but everyone I've used over the past 10 years or so has had this option. 96.227.82.128 (talk) 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Although you appear to live in the US so this may be fine for you, this may not be possible in quite a number of places (it also requires your phone supports MMS obviously). Here in NZ, with Vodafone you can send MMS to email addresses, but you can't send mail in the reverse (well you may be able to subscribe to an MMS gateway). I believe this is quite common in a lot of the world, since you do not pay to receive MMS (or similar things) it makes sense that they will not want to allow you to email your phone so easily. You can of course use an email client or webbrowser but that would likely include data charges, and so it may simply be more effective/easier to download the file from somewhere with your phone. Depending on how you carrier charges for casual data, it may be a better idea to just stick with a midi presuming you don't mind how it sounds, which will be a lot smaller. Presuming your phone does not have a lot of memory, this will save space too. Alternatively a data cable may be more effective. (This may also be the only way if your phone is an older one without MP3, MMS or WAP.) Many phones support them although perhaps only in Windows, perhaps even only Windows XP x86-32 and 2k depending on the age of the phone. I don't know what the situation is like in the US, but you may find it cheaper to buy one from eBay (generic obviously) whether from the US or from HK. I'm presuming of course your phone doesn't have infrared or bluetooth support nor a removable memory card. Nil Einne (talk) 19:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I have found links (though I don't have them handy) for tutorials on creating one's own ringtone. Generally, it's a pretty simple matter to sample a song and adjust the bitrate down to whatever the phone requires (free software such as Audacity can do this). A valid file can then be transferred to the phone in various ways -- USB, memory card, MMS message, etc. It's worth noting that I am completely unaware of the legal ramifications of this -- I'd like to imagine that it's fair use (at least for songs for which I've paid), but I don't really know. — Lomn 19:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Public debt and deficit across all levels: US vs. Canada

How do Canada and the US compare in terms of public debt and deficit relative to GDP, if states, provinces, territories and municipalities are included? NeonMerlin 20:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Most US States are not permitted to run a deficit for the fiscal year. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone keep track of these numbers? In the U.S., the federal government typically runs a deficit. State governments, as noted, generally cannot run a deficit, so they typically contribute a surplus (since some states are positive and almost none are negative). Municipalities can and do run large deficits, financed by municipal bonds. In economic terms, it's the sum of all these that matters, but we almost never hear anything about that number. John M Baker (talk) 23:53, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, most state governments can and do run deficits. "At least 46 states have looked ahead and anticipate deficits for fiscal year 2010 and beyond."[19] —D. Monack ^talk 03:52, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

May 28

Really obvious candidates for articles that don't exist yet

The question above about how long it would take to reach our 10 millionth and 1 billionth article got me thinking about subjects that should have articles but don't yet.

Can anyone suggest some subjects for articles that would cause a lot of people to say "Good Lord! How come nobody got around to writing this article before now?". I'm talking about major, significant, widely known people or events, not just footnotes to history or whatever.

The best answers will qualify for my personal GLHCNGATWTABN Award. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The article which I'm still surprised no-one has written is road numbering scheme. It's been a redlink under numbering scheme since January 2004, and we have articles on road numbering schemes in various countries, but nothing summarising the various systems. And while perhaps not "major", and certainly not exciting, it's a fairly significant, everyday thing for many people. Warofdreams talk 02:19, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

One are where I think that wikipedia is really lacking is in its coverage of legal issues. There are tonnes of cases/concepts that don't have an article (e.g. Gordon v. Goertz, Housen v.Nikolaisen). Eiad77 (talk) 03:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Some candidates for GLHCNGATWTABN Award:

• Cardiovascular system (currently redirects to a non-synonymous Circulatory system)
  • Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
• Cardiovascular imaging or Cardiac imaging
  • Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL or Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
• Cardiovascular MRI or Cardiac MRI
  • Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL or Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
• Cardiovascular CT or Cardiac CT
  • Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL or Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Obviously, not many cardiologists or radiologists are editing wikipedia... although they seem to have the time to write 100s of books and 1000s of papers on the subject. Twisted priorities.  :-) Abecedare (talk) 03:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

80s movie concerining the African Bushmen

I'm trying to think of this movie I watched a couple of months ago. It was like, the Gods were Fools, or something like that. It dealt with an African bushman trying to get rid of a Coke bottle he thought the gods sent them and then a story of some South African (?) schoolteacher. Anyway, it's a rather poorly produced movie but I'm trying to think of the title. Any help? 75.169.197.132 (talk) 04:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The Gods Must Be Crazy sounds like the one you're looking for. AlexiusHoratius 04:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes! Thanks. 75.169.208.114 (talk) 05:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The bit with the land rover is hilarious. It's a great movie. SteveBaker (talk) 05:11, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Worldwide population of Stuffed Animals ?

In my house the ratio of stuffed animals to humans is at least 20 to 1. Furthermore, stuffed animals generally do not die like humans; most of the stuffed animals ever made still exist. I expect the total to be in the billions if not tens of billions. Any more accurate estimates out there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.216.34 (talk) 04:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I can see two problems with your thesis:

1. Not everyone in the world can afford stuffed animals - you might find some large ratio of stuffed animals to humans in (say) North America - but would you find anything like that number in the more populous countries like India and China? I suspect not.
2. You haven't met my dog have you? If you think stuffed animals are immortal - just put them up against a real animal! Sarah can eviscerate a teddy bear in about 2 minutes flat. Not a pretty sight!

SteveBaker (talk) 05:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually due to the Japanese kawaii-culture influence the ratio might be higher than you'd think in China (and other East Asian countries), perhaps even higher than what you'd find in North America. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:40, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean stuffed as in once-was-alive-but-now-stuffed (Taxidermy?) or stuffed as in 'cuddly toy'? I can imagine that there probably exists more cuddly-toys in the world than people, but no way will there be more stuffed-animals (Taxidermy) as it's expensive, not exactly the most popular ornament and, well, i just can't imagine it's true. Cuddly toys, however, will be being produced by the millions every year - that grey one that every girl in the entire world loves (you know the one that looks like it's been beaten up) probably out-numbers humans on its own! At least it feels that way whenever I go to a card shop 194.221.133.226 (talk) 07:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

A question about ePSXe...

I downloaded the Playstation emulator, ePSXe. I was about to get the utility BIOS for the emulator when I saw that I coan downloaded it if I have the legal right to do so, that is, if I owned a Playstation, then I can download the BIOS. I do own a Playstation, but it's in ny house somewhere and it's not working. So, would owning a Playstation that does not work still count in the legal right to download the utility BIOS? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 10:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Walking from London to Edinburgh

Can anybody please tell me if it is actually possibly for an able bodied person (with only an average level of fitness and physically dexterity, and without any specialised training), to walk from London to Edinburgh, without having to use any other means of transport and without trespassing or otherwise breaking the law? If it is possible, are there any resources to assist with planning a route efficiently? Just in case there are any other Londons and Edinburghs on the same land mass, I am talking about London (England) to Edinburgh (Scotland)! :) Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Chuny Beetroot (talk) 10:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes it is possible, Janet Street-Porter even managed it in 1998 by walking in a straight line but walking 350 miles or more isn't anything to be taken lightly. Ramblers may be able to help you with routes but nothing beats the OS maps (you can even get small scale ones online now too) and other websites have other information such as the national footpath map (our article) and even accommodation near to popular walking routes. All I can really recommend is lots and lots and lots and lots of planning. Nanonic (talk) 11:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Nanonic. That is incredibly helpful, especially the footpath map. As you say, this needs a huge amount of planning, but I am hoping that somebody can give me a headstart (which you have certainly helped with!). Am I being too simplistic in thinking that a good route might be one planned around the major footpaths (for example, on the footpath map you linked to, planning around the following route 30 -> 22 -> 19 -> 8 -> 15 - using numbers for clarity). Obviously it would be longer than a more direct route (a very rough estimate on Google Earth seems to be 400-450 miles), but it would seem that I have a much better chance of not getting stuck somewhere and/or misreading the terrain, because those paths are a better known quantity? Thanks again Chuny Beetroot (talk) 11:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)