Talk:Evil

Evil in other religions

I'm heavily disappointed in not seeing Islam and numerous other religions interpretation of evil. Why the ignorance on such a great site? Great example of evil in itself. Marcelino (talk) 23:49, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Is Evil Good?

I am sorry for vandalizing this section and also the Amphetimine article. I will not vandalize wikipedia anymore. However I want to talk about the "Is Evil Good?" section on the talk page. I do not think that evil is good. I actually think that evil is terrible. It is terrible. What I think of evil is commiting sins to the extreme. I think of "evil" as things like terrorism, murdering of innocent people ect. I will not vandalize wikipedia anymore but I want you to respect my comments because I am at least putting it on the talk page. 99.232.29.227 (talk) 02:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)21:36 Febuary 6, 2008

That's nice. Please read WP:FORUM. This page is for discussing how to improve the article, not your personal opinions. -- Kesh (talk) 03:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

99.232.29.227 (talk) 03:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC):I have read the wikipedia forum and also the page about vandalism on wikipedia and I now know what exactly vandalism is and I won't do it again. So anyways, that thing about "Is Evil Good?" Do you think that evil is good? 22:48, February 7, 2008 (talk)

You are still missing the point. This article is not an editorial. It reports what others have said on the subject. Rick Norwood (talk) 16:19, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

What does that mean? 99.232.29.227 (talk) 21:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC) 16:32, Februay 8, 2008

It means this is not a place for discussing your opinion on the subject. All we're doing is making an encyclopedia article of what people have written about Evil in philosophy, history and religion. This is not a forum for us to talk about whether evil is good or not. -- Kesh (talk) 03:03, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, I see. But should the section be deleted? I am not going to delete it right now but I want to see what people think about it. 99.232.29.227 (talk) 12:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC) 07:21, February 9, 2008

You should not delete something because you disagree with it. You should only delete something because it is inaccurate. In other words, you should not delete a reference to Anton LaVey because you disagree with what he said. You should only delete it if you can demonstrate that he did not in fact say it. Rick Norwood (talk) 14:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

OK I'm not going to delete it and I see what you are saying, but maybe the neutrality of the section is disputed. 99.232.29.227 (talk) 17:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC) 12:42, February 9, 2008

The section would fail the neutrality test if Anton LaVey's views were presented in a biased manner. LaVey himself is not supposed to be neutral, only the presentation of his views. In short, the purpose of the section is not to provide information about evil, but information about one particular view of evil. Rick Norwood (talk) 22:54, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, I guess you're right. I understand what you are trying to say. 99.232.29.227 (talk) 23:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC) 19:50, February 9, 2008

Just one thing. Could you give me an example of Anton LaVey's views being presented in a biased way? 99.232.29.227(UTC) 21:46, February 9, 2008

Sure. If I said, "Anton LaVey is a great guy and was right in everything he said," that would be biased. Rick Norwood (talk) 13:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, Now I see, Thanks. 99.232.29.227 (talk) 14:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC) 9:23, February 10, 2008

R-41's political blog

I decided to move this communist apologetic blog to the talk, because its entirely unsourced, non neutral and pretty is just an opinion of one student. If there is anything at all to salvage with sources, then please feel free to re-add some.

Gennarous (talk) 15:35, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Evil in Politics

In modern-day liberal democratic societies, many associate evil in politics with authoritarian, imperialist, racist, and totalitarian regimes and with leaders who are demagogues. Adolf Hitler in Germany, is a primary and common example throughout the world of an evil politician, as he permitted the persecution and mass genocide of Jews, opposition figures and other minorities in the Holocaust, allowed the deliberate destruction of civilian areas of cities and had blatant disregard for the life of his own citizens in the final months of World War II. Hitler is so universally infamous in both western and eastern societies that comparisons of individuals to Hitler or to Nazis is a common epithet that equates to declaring that someone is evil. Joseph Stalin in the Soviet Union is often considered evil in the west and by reform-minded communists for his purges and his persecution of the Kulaks, and his demand of absolute loyalty from his citizens. In the West, Mao Tse Tung in China is considered evil, for the devastation brought on by the Cultural Revolution. Ferdinand II of Aragon, who led Spain and began the Spanish Inquisition has been considered evil for the inquisition's harsh repression of Muslims, Jews, and other dissenting populations.

In general imperialism has been seen as evil since the collapse of colonialism. British, Portugese, and Spanish imperialist repression of aboriginals in the Americas led to the deaths of millions of aboriginals, and the displacement of their population to make way for colonial expansion. British actions in South Africa during the Second Boer War have been considered evil, such as his armed forces' establishment of concentration camps for Boers and his repression of the Boer people.[1] Italy's imperialist agenda in Africa during the 1930s under Fascism led to the repression and segregation of Ethiopians, such as the deliberate destruction of Ethiopian settlements in Addis Ababa in 1937. Some of the final examples of the negative aspects of imperialism which have been deemed evil were demonstrated during Algeria's struggle for independence from France, where the French brutally repressed the Algerian independence movement.

The political writings of Niccolò Machiavelli, in The Prince, explore the relationship between politics and the moral norms of good and evil. Notoriously, Machiavelli makes the case that morality can sometimes be a hindrance in the pursuit of power, because in the political realm "the ends justifies the means". Machiavelli argues that a ruler may have to act immorally to protect both his personal power and the interests of the state.

In common parlance, the term Machiavellian is used to describe politicians or political policy that is amoral. Machiavelli did not make a case for evil, but rather argued pragmatically that a prince could not practically follow the moral codes of the common people. He is explicit in stating that politicians who choose or are forced to commit evil acts must be prepared to face the moral consequences of their actions.

Gilbert and Sullivan satirize this view in The Pirates of Penzance, where the Pirate King sings

For many a king on a first class throne

If he wants to call his crown his own

Must manage somehow to get through

More dirty deeds than ever I do.

In contrast to the views expressed above, authoritarian, totalitarian, and theocratic states often consider western democracies to be evil. Totalitarian states under communism or fascism believe that liberal democracy allows for the exploitation of the people, that democracy is actually a regressive force for society, that individualism is bad because it favours materialism over values common to the people. Theocracies criticize liberal democracy because it allows women to exercise strong influence and express themselves provocatively, allows the consumption of intoxicating substances (such as alcohol and tobacco), and allow materialist individualism to to supplant the enforcement of holy writ.

In the light of controversial conflicts in places Vietnam and Iraq, even supporters of liberal democracy, especially from the left and also the libertarian side of the political spectrum, have claimed that democratically elected leaders of the United States, especially Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, and George W. Bush have been evil or have followed evil principles in their support of such wars. These three US Presidents have been accused of lying to their people on important issues, using murder and torture to support US business interests, allowing war crimes such as Mei Li and Abu Ghraib, and continuing unpopular wars against the will of the people.

One wide-spread form of political evil that is universally denounced is corruption, where politicians enrich themselves at the expense of their country and its people.

I just can't resist pointing out what happens when you click on the hyperlink to "Mei Li" above. Presumably, it's not what the author of this polemic intended to link to!

65.213.77.129 (talk) 20:20, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the author meant the My Lai Massacre? Emma li mk (talk) 12:47, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Moral obligation

Isn't there a well-defined philosophical essay that discussed evil and the philosophical idea of moral obligation? If so, it should be included. --Firefly322 (talk) 18:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

You might want to ask on the Humanities Reference Desk. Probably someone on there could help figure out what essay you're referring to. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 22:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

pictures. too boring to read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.77.90.249 (talk) 22:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Design and Evil

"Evil" is also a term used about design. For example, when talking about the programming language C, the POV that "Pointers are Evil" is often promoted. In these cases, "Evil" is synonymous with "Bad Practice" or "Not Really Beneficial While Potentially Harmful". Something for the article? - Soulkeeper (talk) 21:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

If you can find a reliable source for it. Really though, people use evil as a euphemism for "things I don't like" all the time. It might be worth having a section on the euphemistic uses of the word in general (again, requiring a source). — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 11:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

The Jargon File on Evil: http://catb.org/jargon/html/E/evil.html - Soulkeeper (talk) 12:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I see that it's been mentioned before on this talk page. - Soulkeeper (talk) 13:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Slavery in the United States

I'm not sure about this sentence in the article: "Less than 150 years ago the United States of America, and many other countries practiced brutal forms of slavery." When one considers the vast history of slavery in the world, its existence in civilizations throughout time and across all continents, as well as its continued existence in various forms (including "brutal" forms) in the world today, I don't know that I agree with this sentence having a place in the article. For one thing, it makes it sound as if slavery - or "brutal forms of slavery" - was somehow unique to the United States (yes, in spite of also saying "many other countries"). It thus makes it sound like its coming from a biased, American perspective. It also makes it sound like slavery and brutal forms of slavery basically have been non-existent for 150 years or so, which is totally untrue. Harry Yelreh (talk) 19:01, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The sentence should be deleted. This article discusses the concept of evil; it is not the place to discuss specific instances of evil. Rick Norwood (talk) 19:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Off topic/OR

I moved this here:

Some sociologists, psychologists, psychiatrists and neuroscientists have attempted to construct scientific explanations for the development of specific characteristics of an "antisocial" personality type, called the sociopath. The sociopath is typified by extreme self-serving behavior and a lack of conscience as well as an inability to empathize with others and to restrain from, or to feel remorse for, harm personally caused to others. However, a diagnosis of antisocial or sociopathic personality disorder (formerly called psychopathic mental disorder), is sometimes criticized as being, at the present time, no more scientific than calling a person "evil". There is much debate over this, however. Some, most prominently Robert Hare, author of "Without Conscience", consider psychopathy to be a widespread disorder quite distinct from antisocial personality disorder.

What critics perceive to be a moral determination is disguised, they argue, with a scientific-sounding name but no complete description of a mechanism by which the abnormality can be identified. In other words, critics argue, "sociopaths" are called such because they are first thought to be "evil" - a determination which itself is not derived by a scientific method.

Research into sociopathology has also been investigated biologically,[9] Are there biological reasons why people are evil rather than moral? Are there physical underpinnings of behaviors that societies reject as sociopathic? Most neurological research into sociopathology has focused on regions of the neocortex involved in impulse control. Some other research seems to indicate that sociopathy may at least partially be related to a lack of ability to realize the true consequences of one's actions.

______

While i'm sure it was added in good faith, it seems to have only a tenuous link with the topic. I think very (very) few sociologists/psycologist/scientists of any type would call a person "evil" based on a medical diagnosis. An in depth discussion of sociopathy should not be included unless the view that this is equivalent to evil is detailed. I left a brief mention, so links are still in place, and the only (uncited) combination of the 2 (although this is still the title of a pop-science book, so hardly authoritative). The second paragraph at minimum needs some citations - who thinks this? YobMod 14:42, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Amusing fact

Why does searching for "Scientology" on Wikipedia turns "Evil" as a result? How is that NPOV? I know Scientolgy doesn't have many friends on the Internet but that seems a bit over the line... RUL3R (talk) 17:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

No idea. You should ask at the Village Pump technical section. Law _{type! snype?} 18:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Hehe it's quite amusing how people automatically assume scientologists are evil