Talk:Berserker

King Erik?!

"In 1015 King Erik of Norway outlawed berserkers."

Who is this? According to the list of Norwegian monarchs, Olaf II was King of Norway in 1015. Eric I and Eric II reigned 931-933 and 1280-1299 respectively. DopefishJustin (・∀・) 19:34, 31 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Godly aligence of bearserkers

Although I can not pin point the source of this, I have a distinct feeling this is the case...

The bearserks are warriors somehow linked to the goddess Freya, while the ones in wolf skin are linked to Odin. This makes sens for a number of reasons:

Half of the fallen warriors go to Freya, half to Odin.
Both deities have mystic/shamanic powers.
Odin is closely linked to wolfs.

In order to buy this argument one also has to see Freya as a wild (as the nature is wild), passionate, mystic and magical person rater then the "ornamental" Aphrodite/Barbie kind of person.

One also has to accept that the frenzies of berserkagang was a sort of shamanic trance (sejd), which is not that easy to do since there are accounts of involuntary bearserkagang. One way around this is to attribute the berserkagang to something else, but accept the shamanic trance as a "marketing scheme".

Please comment (I didn't want to add it to the article since I don't have a source).

Comment by RuediiX:

I would like to add consistancy to the use of trance state or meditation for berzerkaganging, as you put it. somtimes called berzerkering for simplicity. Similar techniques are used in some variants of martial arts. It seems to be general knowlege, but I don't have a source. I'm sure some Martial Arts expert should have one for that.

Also on the appreciation of nature by strike warrior classes is nothing unique as they have a tendancy to have to spend long times in the Wilderness hidden, and considering what has been verified about Norse culture the worship of a female god by warriors is not surprising either. Not to sound biased by my gender being male, but I would consider that to be motivating.

So, these statements are not unfounded, and I provided some cross refrence data that might help. Timestamp: 2005.03.03.03:37 EST

Comment by Maximilius:

The "trance states" do indeed exist in martial arts, however I believe the "Berzerk" trance state is probably unique to Berzerkers.

Oriental martial arts usualy have some sort of mental training that allows practitioners to be more perceptive, ignore pain, heighten reflex, and increase concetration in general. A really good example of this is Kendo (Japanese fencing) which work towards producing state of "Zen" (adopted from budhist practice). A state which one's awareness is so high that one no longer thinks, but perform moves and reacts instantly out of pure instinct (simplified description, this is much more complicated in practice).

Therefore, using mental conditioning to improve fighting ability exists in many warrior culture. However, berzerkaganging is likely an extreme form that is exclusive to Berzerkers. Like mentioned in the article, berzerkaganging can get out of control, harming allies as well as enemies. This is very shunned upon in every culture. In oriental marial arts, where control and dicipline is emphasized, there is simply no room for berzerking.

Extra note: I do, however, know of a Chinese martial practice that is similar to berzerking. Students are often taught to concentrate all one's willpower to defeat his enemy in a duel (or sparring), this results in very agressive attack patterns and greatly heightened threshold of pain. However, students are also taught to control this state to distinquish between friend and foe (and to not harm sparring partner).

Maximilius - March 17, 2005

the plural number

This page is in the plural number.

Danish: en berserk, to berserker
English: one berserk, two berserks

According to my dictionary, "berserk" and "berserker" are both valid nouns in English. (I am also quite convinced that the form "en bersærker, to bersærkere" exists in modern Danish, but my dictionary does not agree.)

Nouns in Old Norse often ended in -r, and I heard that the -r was mistaken to be an agent suffix(?), like English -er. Not 100% sure about the explanation, though... 81.232.72.148 23:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of information on Norse Culture

There is a significant lack of information on Norse culture in general, before the Monarchy took over.

The consiquence of this means that we know little about the warrior class variants that weren't theives, raiders and other unethical outlaws that would get themselves noticed.

It is noted that some bezerkers may have even been defenders of the weak, and would often use various tactics of using a falsely appearing weak member to face and use a block defense against the oponents that were raiding the village, while they waited in ambush. These techniques are remarkably similar to modern SWAT and other Special Ops tactics.

Similar tactics have also been used for quite some time in Far East martial arts. It is known how these tactics are done. Meditations are used to enchance the body's abilities through the nervous system. Such martial artests have been recorded as having the ability to use biofeedback to learn how to directly control even they're heartbeat rate quite easily.

Technically the tactics were not what was outlawed, but instead the rituals assosiated with them. The tactics are still used today in many SWAT, Special Ops, Strike Ops, and Rouge Ops tactics.

-- Note from orriginal author (Delete along with sig when request for editing as outlined below is complete.) If someone could get refrences on this stuff and post it to the main page, it would be nice. (BTW, since I haven't gotten my spell checker plugin reinstall in my browser, someone spell check this for me as well.) Could someone translate this to some Germanic and Norse languages. I presume some of these statements need to be put on the master page for the Anctient Norse culture, and just be linked from the various pages. Timestamp and sig: 03:05AM EST 2005.03.03 Ruediix ThunderFox The Vulpinian Punk

Comment by Maximilius:

I'd like to add some additional comment about using mental conditioning to control physical ability. Using meditation to increase physical ability and using mental state to alter/improve fighting pattern are two different effects. Chinese martial art and medicine ultilized Qi Gong system, which include meditation and breath control. Long term practice can boost stamina and power significantly, and alter metabolism and heartbeat. This is what I believe the above poster is talking about. I have practice Qi Gong for 4 years, and martial arts for 6 years, however my mental state during fighting has not changed from before I practice Qi Gong (for example, I am not more agressive nor more percetive). Berzerkaganing involves altering mind state of a fighter, and the fighter becomes extra agressive (gaining strengh and stamina is a side-effect of this state, like how one can write more neatly when concentrating). Therefore, the two are fundamentally different.

Note: I have another comment about using mind state to improve fighting ability, which is posted on another article above this one.

Maximilius - March 18, 2005

Entirely different explanation as compared with current german Wikipedia

April 2005: The german wikipedia entry for "Berserker" shares the bear-shirt explanation about the word itself, but explains that berserkers were merely aged germanic warriors (beyond 35 years, which was regarded as very old at that time), who feared to die peacefully in bed, i.e. berserkers were old veterans fighting in the first line in order to seek an honorful death in combat. It is discussed that they drugged themselves in order to prevent themselves to retreat because of pain before being mortally wounded. However, facing a veteran who does not fear death itself is certainly fearsome, contributing to the term berserker as commonly understood today.

I do not know whether this explanation is better or worse, but I just thought to mention the differences.

April, 2005

The German definition probably fit a great many beserkers such as Starkad, but no, there is nothing in the sources about the age.--Wiglaf 12:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Spirit possession

The sentence Those who believe in the existence of spirit possession favor a theory that the berserk rage was brought on by possession by an animal spirit of either a bear or a wolf. According to this theory, berserkers were those who had cultivated an ability to allow the spirit of a bear or wolf to take over their body during a fight. This is seen as a somewhat peculiar application of animal totemism. does not belong here as it is a completely unscientific theory.

What does this mean?

King Harald Fair-Hair's use of berserker "shock troops" became a sphere of influence.

This is not at all clear (not to me). Could the original author clarify? --Michael K. Smith 21:01, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please educate me

Since i was a child i had a serious rage issues brought on by a stressfull enviroment. I would become chilled and then my blood pressure would increase when i was younger i would lash out and it wasnt till later when i joined the military that i realized how to control my anger. I was simply searching the net on anything of interest when i stumbled onto this site. Everything makes perfect sence. I beleve that the berserker's rage or berserkage is totaly psychological which if you look into organic chemistry you will find that simply chemical mixtures create the functions in our brains there is even an area in modern psychology that is devoted directly to chemical interaction. Perhaps the combination of the chemicals injested and the rituals performed by the nordic berserkers pushed them into the "trance" you speak of. Also if you look at the reactions of people at a rock concert it almost takes control of the people and sends them into a rage. I cant seem to find any information on berserkers and the rituals they performed to back my theory if you could send me info i would appreciate it. Also the previous comment on the SWAT and SF units using berserker like traits is very true. However the rangers use extream exhustion to enduce rage. That is one of the ways i learned to manage my anger issues. my email is Jared_Peterson1986@hotmail.com.

Is "berzerk" a valid spelling?

I notice that "berzerker" redirects to "berserker". But does the spelling "berzerker" really exist in proper English (or any other language)? Is it not just a (recent) corruption created because "Z is cool" (as is the case with "lazer")?

If my assumption is correct, then the article needs to clarify this. SpectrumDT 18:07, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]