Talk:Sinhalese people

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Genetic relationship section blanking by 76.111.25.195

I have undid the revision by 76.111.25.195 on the genetic relationships section. 76.111.25.195 constantly keeps deleting the previous edit, claiming it to contain outdated information. But the user has still failed to show how any of the information in the previous previous revision is outdated. Instead the user has just deleted it all. The revision the user replaced it with doesn't make sense in it's current state because it's been copy and pasted and the references are messed up. None of it contradicts with the previous revision or reveals anything new. It also contains plenty of verbose about Non-Sinhalese people which shouldn't be in this article.

Below is a critique on the user's copied entry:

Contrary to popular opinion, in part instilled by British colonial policy of 'divide and rule', the Sinhalese are not a distinct group that is entirely or even mainly of 'Indo-Aryan' origin, which is itself a linguistic categorization and not a palpable 'racial' group. In fact, most Sinhalese, like most Indian populations show a high degree of genetic similarity that stems from a population that formed on the island roughly 12,000 years ago and has been little changed through invasions by Indo-Aryans and other groups.

The previous revision also supports the fact that the sinhalese are mainly Indo-Aryan. The previous revision also mentioned a study which found little genetic flow from other neighbouring asian population groups. There is nothing new in this entry and it is not referenced.

A 2003 Stanford study analyzing the origins of various South Asian populations (including 40 Sinhalese and over 90 Tamils from Sri Lanka) found that most of the population of the island and India in general:

This sentence makes no sense. It is incomplete.

Taken together, these results show that Indian tribal and caste populations derive largely from the same genetic heritage of Pleistocene southern and western Asians and have received limited gene flow from external regions since the Holocene. [5] These findings are corroborated by numerous other studies including a 2004 Biomedical Central Study:

This is an article on the Sinhalese people, not Indians.

Gene flow from West Eurasia-Broadly, the average proportion of mtDNAs from West Eurasia among Indian caste populations is 17% (Table 2). In the western States of India and in Pakistan their share is greater, reaching over 30% in Kashmir and Gujarat, nearly 40% in Indian Punjab, and peaking, expectedly, at approximately 50% in Pakistan (Table 11, see Additional file 6, Figure 11, panel A). These frequencies demonstrate a general decline (SAA p < 0.05 Figure 4) towards the south (23%, 11% and 15% in Maharashtra, Kerala and Sri Lanka, respectively) and even more so towards the east of India (13% in Uttar Pradesh and around 7% in West Bengal and Bangladesh). The low (<3%) frequency of the western Eurasian mtDNAs in Rajasthan may be in part a statistical artifact due to the limited sample size of 35 Rajputs. [6] Overall, the evidence supports the strong possibility that the Sinhalese are largely indigenous to Sri Lanka and adopted the Indo-Aryan language from invaders who in turn showed limited ancestry from some original Indo-Aryan invaders stemming from some Eurasian homeland. Ultimately, the genetic evidence also shows substantial genetic drift that corresponds to geography and in the case of Sri Lanka supports the notion that most Sinhalese stem from very early migrants, rather than later invaders:

Modern Pakistani, Indian, and Sinhalese donors, examined for combinations of mini- and microsatellite loci, along with a number of Y chromosome and mtDNA markers (24), show varying degrees of diversity, which is expected from their geographic position and ability to receive waves of migrants pulsing from Africa and West Asia at different times. DYS287 or Y chromosome Alu insertion polymorphism also clearly demonstrate the gradual decline in insert-positive Y chromosomes from Africa to East Asia, reaching a transition point from polymorphic levels (1 to 5%) to private polymorphism in Pakistan. [7] Thus, not surprisingly other studies done from different perspectives and goals substantiate these findings. In a 2003 American Journal of Human Genetics study entitled The Genetic Heritage of the Earliest Settlers Persists Both in Indian Tribal and Caste Populations, the 'West Asian', presumably Indo-Aryan and other, genetic indicators show that,

Their frequency is the highest in Punjab, ∼20%, and diminishes threefold, to an average of 7%, in the rest of the caste groups in India... [8] These findings all include sample groups from Sinhalese populations in Sri Lanka who were thus compared to other South Asian and other Eurasian groups. From an anthropological perspective, the modern Sinhalese represent a fusion of a wide variety that nonetheless is overwhelmingly indigenous to the island of Sri Lanka and the genetic variations (based on Y-chromosomes and MtDNA only) between the Sinhalese and their Tamil and Veddah neighbors appears to be largely marginal and may be restricted to a small degree of sporadic differences rather than anything universal although some genetic drift has taken place that corresponds to language barriers.

All this information on Pakistanis, Indians, Punjabis etc. should not be in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikinpg (talk • contribs) 19:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

The article that talks about the genetic ancestry of Sinhalese and all the major ethnic groups in the whole subcontinent is more valid and a more comphresensive study that was done in 2003. Stop deleting it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edwards Scholar (talk • contribs) 05:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Your entry contains extraneous information that isn't relevant to the sinhalese article. How is it more valid? What's wrong with the methodology in the previous studies mentioned?. The information in this enty doesn't contradict the information in the previous entry. So I don't know why you keep changing it. It is also not "more comprehensive". The previous entry provides MUCH MORE information on genetic ancestry of the sinhalese as it uses information from multiple studies. It also doesn't contain the extraneous, irrelavant information that this entry has. The previous entry is better written, more relevant and more informative. Wikinpg (talk) 18:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

This was the most comphresensive study done on all south asian ethnic groups. Not just based on alleles. It includes 4 sources that I have listed at the bottom of the and it provides context and history on the genetic history than any other source does not. So STOP removing it and replacing it a study that was it not as detailed and comprehensive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edwards Scholar (talk • contribs) 05:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

This study provides context into where the Sinhalese fit in genetically with the rest of the sub continent ethnic groups. And it never claims that the Sinhalese are an Indo-Aryan race. Because there is no such thing as an Indo-Aryan race.

Quote "Sinhalese are not a distinct group that is entirely or even mainly of 'Indo-Aryan' origin, which is itself a linguistic categorization and not a palpable 'racial' group"

Indo-Aryan is a lingusitic group that the Sinhalese people belong too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edwards Scholar (talk • contribs) 06:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Please don't keep removing the 2003 stanford study.

It is the most complete study done on this subject to date. The study used mtDNA Analyses, Y-Chromosome Analyses, MX1 Locus, Sequencing and Data Analysis to come to the results. No other study on south asian genetics has carried out all those methods before or since then.

The metioning of other ethnic groups of the subcontinent provides valuable context. If you think they should not be any other ethnic groups mentioned, then your source also mentions names of other ethnic groups more than the Sinhalese. 76.111.25.195 (talk) 21:37, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I have included the relevant information in the 2003 study. Please do not revert the entry. It contains all the relevant information from both our entries. Thank you. Genetic relationships is a more specific title than Genetic Studies. So I think that should stay.

This is what I have added from your entry:

Contrary to popular opinion, in part instilled by British colonial policy of 'divide and rule', the Sinhalese are not a distinct group that is entirely or even mainly of Indo-Aryan origin, which is itself a linguistic categorization and not a palpable 'racial' group. In fact, most Sinhalese, like most Indian populations show a high degree of genetic similarity that stems from a population that formed on the island and has been little changed through invasions by Indo-Aryans and other groups.

From an anthropological perspective, the modern Sinhalese represent a fusion of a wide variety that nonetheless is overwhelmingly indigenous to the island of Sri Lanka and the genetic variations (based on Y-chromosomes and MtDNA only) between the Sinhalese and their Tamil and Veddah neighbors appears to be largely marginal and may be restricted to a small degree of sporadic differences rather than anything universal although some genetic drift has taken place that corresponds to language barriers.^[9]

As the sinhalese originate from India they, like other Indian tribal and caste populations, derive largely from the same genetic heritage of a southern asians and western asians in the Pleistocene. They are likely to have have received limited gene flow from external regions since the Holocene. ^[10]

A 2004 biomedical central study found the frequency of the average proportion of mtDNA gene flow from West Eurasia in the Sri-Lankan population to be 15%^[16]. This proportion is similar to South Indian (23%, 11% and 15% in Maharashtra, Kerala and Sri Lanka, respectively) and East Indian groups (13% in Uttar Pradesh and around 7% in West Bengal and Bangladesh).

Wikinpg (talk) 14:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I re-entered a part of the 2003 study that was cut off, it is important because it is one of the main paragraphs that talks about the conclusions of the genetic study. Edwards Scholar (talk) 15:00, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I deleted this part:

Modern Pakistani, Indian, and Sinhalese donors, examined for combinations of mini- and microsatellite loci, along with a number of Y chromosome and mtDNA markers (24), show varying degrees of diversity, which is expected from their geographic position and ability to receive waves of migrants pulsing from Africa and West Asia at different times. DYS287 or Y chromosome Alu insertion polymorphism also clearly demonstrate the gradual decline in insert-positive Y chromosomes from Africa to East Asia, reaching a transition point from polymorphic levels (1 to 5%) to private polymorphism in Pakistan. <http://natvet.sh.se/jna/Human_evolution_a.pdf>

Even though this entry mentions sinhalese donors. It is specifically talking about Indians. Sri Lanka does not recieve waves of migrants from Africa and West Asia. This article should only give information on the Indians that migrated to Sri Lanka and became sinhalese. Information on the ancestry of Indians in general, should be on another page. Please use indentations when replying, instead of starting a new topic.

Please do not delete this section because this section talks about tests done on Sinhalese as well. Thats what this article is about, if the paragraph did not mention the Sinhalese then I could make a case for deleting it. The section should be titled "Genetic Studies" because that was what the main aim of the studies(1995, 2003/2004 and 2007) was, not relationships. Edwards Scholar (talk) 17:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Whoever keeps deleting the section

Overall, the evidence supports the strong possibility that the Sinhalese are largely indigenous to Sri Lanka and adopted the Indo-Aryan language from invaders who in turn showed limited ancestry from some original Indo-Aryan invaders stemming from some Eurasian homeland. Ultimately, the genetic evidence also shows substantial genetic drift that corresponds to geography and in the case of Sri Lanka supports the notion that most Sinhalese stem from very early migrants, rather than later invaders:

Modern Pakistani, Indian, and Sinhalese donors, examined for combinations of mini- and microsatellite loci, along with a number of Y chromosome and mtDNA markers (24), show varying degrees of diversity, which is expected from their geographic position and ability to receive waves of migrants pulsing from Africa and West Asia at different times. DYS287 or Y chromosome Alu insertion polymorphism also clearly demonstrate the gradual decline in insert-positive Y chromosomes from Africa to East Asia, reaching a transition point from polymorphic levels (1 to 5%) to private polymorphism in Pakistan.

Don't do it, other you will be cited for vandalism because you keep deleting a perfectly legit source with citations.

Whoever keeps editing my articles, please don't cut out parts without discussing it or you might get into trouble for Vandalism.