Talk:Croissant

Viennese?

Not French, Austrian/Hungarian. ((unsigned, undated))

Well, the other story I heard was that it was created during a siege of Vienna by Ottomans but it would have been way posterior to the French invention... JidGom 11:41 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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"The Croissant is french"

The croissant is not french or hungarian. The original ``croissant`` was made in Romania and they named it ``chifla``. To quote wikipedia: "Alan Davidson, editor of the Oxford Companion to Food states that no printed recipe for the present-day croissant appears in any French recipe book before the early 20th century; the earliest French reference to a croissant he found was among the "fantasy or luxury breads" in Payen's Des substances alimentaires, 1853." ((unsigned, undated))

If this is the case, why is the croissant labelled on the page as "French", and its Vienna origins filed under "Legends"? Shall I fix? ((unsigned, undated))

Do you have evidence that the croissant is Viennese? --Macrakis 16:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Well living in Vienna that is certainly the story one hears. Having discussed the concept with a French friend he pointed out that the french word for pastry is Viennoiserie. The word having an obvious relationship with Vienna. ((unsigned, undated))

Not exactly. The French word for pastry is pâtisserie. Viennoiserie designates more specifically the kind of things, such as croissants, that are done in puff pastry, and possibly some other pastries such as brioche. David.Monniaux 13:21, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Viennoiserie" denotes bread-like products which are richer and sweeter because they include eggs, butter, milk, cream, sugar, etc. (see French wikipedia), unlike normal French bread (in fact, the unqualified word "pain" is legally restricted to bread made with flour, water, yeast, and salt -- no sugar, no milk, etc.). They are yeast-based and often flaky. They include croissant, brioche, pain au chocolat (called chocolat croissant in America), raisin bread, etc. As always, just because they're called "Viennoiserie" doesn't mean that any of them or all of them come from Vienna -- they may have been thought of as Viennese, or inspired by Viennese foods, or simply associated with Viennese style. Compare champignons à la grecque, oeufs florentins, macedoine de fruits, homard a l'americaine, etc. --Macrakis 16:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

So the question is now - where is the evidence that the croissant is French?

There is a story in Romania that the croissant was invented in Bucharest because the romanian bakers wanted to make bread,so they spreaded the dough.Someone came in and shouted "the turks are coming!" so they packed it again.The second day the same.And the other day the same. That is how the croissant was invented. [UNSIGNED POST?]

To the degree that evidence exists, the first documented period references seem to be in France (c. 1850). Legends appear to exist in other countries, but without period evidence that's all they are: legends. But this does not definitively mean the food was invented in France, only that enough research has focused on that country to tease out what evidence does exist. Now that Europeana is up, maybe readers of other national languages will start to find other evidence?69.237.239.246 (talk) 17:03, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Puff pastry?

I actually believe that the Croissant is not made of puff pastry. The difference is that puff pastry uses only butter layers to generate lift, while Croissants layer the butter into a yeast dough. Again, this is not to be confused with a Brioche which has a high content of butter within a yeast/bread dough, but not incorporated through layering. ((unsigned, undated))

Article corrected in June to mention that it is similar to puff pastry, but with a yeast dough. --Macrakis 16:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

"Chifla", this word mean in romanian, "little bread", that is not always too little or not like bread at the taste. So, "chifla" can be: a little bread, a little thing that looks like a little bread but have a sweet taste... just lika a croissant.

Explanation

Am I the only one who thinks this sentence doesn't make sense? Can someone clarify? ... it was invented in Vienna in 1683 to celebrate the defeat of the Turkish siege of the city, as a reference to the crescents on the Turkish flags, when bakers staying up all night heard the tunneling operation and gave the alarm.

The Croissant is far older than the Siege of Vienna!

The tradition of making bakery shaped like the croissant goes further back than the 1600s here in Europe: especially in monestairies in the cities of Europe, monks and nuns has had traditions of making rolls with shapes of animals and symbols to be handed out to the poor and needing. The most well known is the shape today known as the symbol of bakers world wide derived from the way the nuns cross their hands while praying. The croissant is called 'cornetti' in italian, as it is the shape of horns of domestic animals , and as such it is known in northern europe, as symbol of a goat, and then also as the horned devil himself. The shape of the croissant is thus known several centuries before the Siege of Vienna, but the name indicating a crescent moon may have a 'newer' history...

real croissant

That croissant looks like an American croissant, not a real European one. Does someone have a better picture? loulou 15:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

all it claims to be is "a croissant." Therefore i would say it's a fine picture. Philmcl 17:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Polish invention to commemorate an AD732 victory at Tours?

Hardly. I can tell that Poles had not heard of any Muslim defeat of 732 until some 2 centuries later. There were no Poles at that time (nor Poland for that matter), only a bunch of Slavic tribes ruled by local chieftains, that became gradually incorporated into the political organism ruled by Mieszko I, who was baptized with his court in AD966, bringing his land and people into West European circles. Before that the only tangible knowledge of the West for Poles was a taste of German steel. In contrast, it is conceivable that they invented croissants to commemorate a Vienna victory, as it was Polish army led by King Sobieski who expelled Turks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.158.7.12 (talk • contribs)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

romanian?

if you ever watched movie "The Terminal" you could see story about Croissant "from romania". what's about that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.3.17.177 (talk) 12:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Relation to Ben Franklin

I was doing some research a few weeks back, and the article said the croissant like Americans think of it was the invention of Ben Franklin...I think he modified a French pastry, or something to that extent. Was this claim bogus because it has been removed from the article. (unsigned comment)

Seems like a bizarre claim, especially since the croissant isn't documented from before the late 19th century in either the US or France! --Macrakis (talk) 00:21, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Rosemary: A Christmas Story

In no way talks about a woman named Sir Lady Consula Alana Dingo Fox Trot Cornwall... Nor does it allude that the Croissant was named after her... Surely this is bogus wiki information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.0.137.224 (talk) 10:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

Removed "named for the famous culinary artist K. Noelle Croissant" as it was unsourced. Rojomoke (talk) 10:07, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Kipfel should have its own section, not be a redirect

The croissant originated from the kipfel, but they went their own ways long ago. The kipfel can be dipped in nuts, stuffed, etc. in a way that has only recently happened with the croissant. And I believe it is NOT made from puff pastry. On top of which, there's an article for the HUNGARIAN version of the kipfel (itself based on the Austrian version) and if anything "kipfel" should redirect to that. But really it should be the reverse. 69.237.237.62 (talk) 16:39, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Croissants were first eaten by Druids, specifically under yew trees in winter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.142.33.177 (talk) 13:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)