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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Deavenger (talk | contribs) at 09:01, 31 July 2009 (→Adding Brazil and Japan to the map). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Strange map / Turkey not part of the EU

The current map displays the EU and its candidate countries. As it is unclear if or when these countries can join, I think it was better to have the status quo (without candidates) presented here.

EU

Looking at all datas in this dicussion and other ones many datas if Usa are a superpower EU is THE SUPERPOWER. Many things must be changed in this article about supepowers.With the 862% of global debts/gdp how can be Usa a Superpower? Be honest!WORLDPOWER27 (talk) 18:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Look debt is not the only factor--and BTW, the countries that hold the US debt are just as vulnerable as is the US for having that debt; besides, if those nations canceled the US debt, the only one benefiting from that would be the US, and the cancelers would be utterly ruined. Suck on that Popsicle Debt-Boy. Answer me this, IF RUSSIA AND THE GULF STATES CUT OFF OIL TO THE EU, WHAT WOULD THE EU DO??? The US could always militarily secure the resources it needs (and, funnily enough, use EU nations to do it). Can the EU say the same??? No, they can't--thus, THE EU IS NOT A SUPERPOWER!68.164.3.124 (talk) 23:01, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
First, majority of academics still believe US is a superpower, while they are split over whether EU is one or not. Not too mention, it's debt is only 99.95% of it's GDP, as it's external debt is about 13 trillion dollars, while it's economy by GDP (nominal) is above 14 trillion dollars. It's debt to ratio is still positive. Also, due to US's military and economic power, and how much say it has in international relations, it's still considered a superpower. And that's being honest. Deavenger (talk) 23:12, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Majority of academics are to consider EU first superpower. You don't consider in the debt the debts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac guaranteed by USA.The global debt / gdp in USA is 862% while in EU 140%.The global debt is the public + the private debt.EU is first in all the main economical datas(check also in this discussion Comparison Table).EU countries have weapons to destroy Earth more than once so all other weapons are unuseful.Do you think that EU hasn't good relationships all over the world? I remember you that many EU countries are born before than USA.So be realistic.Come in EU and you'll see that people here doesn't consider anymore Usa a superpower.US citizens are considered like commom people of other countries.Stop dreaming.WORLDPOWER27 (talk) 16:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think the US still Qualify. Going on what the documentary I.O.U.S.A says about the debt and the economy it maybe in a mess but its not collapsed yet. Wonx2150 (talk) 11:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting comment on video...Will the EU Ever Become a Superpower? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.225.79.214 (talk) 15:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've watched a lot of documentaries and read books that support without doubt EU is over all other political beings.You can check books,also a lot of US sources ...stop dreaming.This article is very troubled,in fact at the top there's the warning...there's PROPAGANDA!In EU talking of Usa as supeprower people laugh!Tell US jokes to other parts of world.151.60.119.120 (talk) 16:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply] 


 WHY IS EVERYBODY SO KEEN TO BE A SUPERPOWER??? SO WE COULD HAVE A REDO, BUT ON A GLOBAL SCALE, OR WORLD WAR I AND KILL 
 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE??? STOP THE HUBRIS!!! STOP THE MADNESS FOR GOD'S SAKES!!! SEEK PEACE AND PROSPERITY NOT THE FALSE 
 GLORY OF PRIDE!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.164.3.124 (talk) 22:34, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine,but 20 years ago nobody would have talked about EU superpower.Now that it is the main one we try to change subjects.151.60.119.119 (talk) 21:05, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So because in EU countries calling the USA a superpower is a "joke" means the USA isn't one? Remember for the latter part of the 20th century, W. Europe pretty much relied on the USA for it's defense, and that's not propaganda, that's a well known fact. I think the EU has the potential to become a superpower, and definitely deserves a spot in this article. - Ryan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.91.239 (talk) 20:26, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Japan?

World's second largest economy, just built helicopter carriers (which may potentially be converted into fixed-wing carriers), substantial military, population of 100 million-plus, touted as a potential super-power for most of the 70's,80's, and early 90's. Yeah, I know, if I want it included I should write it myself, but firstly I don't want to include something which the people who have this page on their watch-lists don't like, and secondly I think others might do a better job of it. FOARP (talk) 12:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some other member or I can write the section for you. However, like all of wikipedia, it's not about what we think. You have to bring some academically reliable sources that aren't OR or SYN. If you can bring enough of those sources (from 2000, not the ones from 70's or 80's please), and they are reliable sources, that can preferably show why academics think Japan will become a superpower, or what academics are saying that Japan has to fix in order to become a superpower, or why Japan will not be a superpower. If you bring enough sources, and all the members look them over and think they're fine, then I'll write the Japan section for you. If you want some good examples of sources, look at the China and European sections. As they have sources that state that they're superpowers, emerging superpowers, or potential superpowers. And not sources that say military superpower, or economic superpower without that same sources saying that the author believes that makes it or will make it a superpower. Hope this helps. Deavenger (talk) 16:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's a pretty strong case against Japan becoming a superpower. They've had a stagnated economy since the early 1990s, and recently a rapidly shrinking economy. They have a shrinking population. And of course they have a pacifist constitution which leads to very limited participation in foreign affairs of a military nature. Further, the rapid rise of China (and to a lesser degree South Korea) dilutes its influence even on a local scale, never mind a global one. TastyCakes (talk) 14:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Japan can't be a superpower because it is totally dependent on foreign sources of resources, and it is unlikely that the world would let it develop the military and start to secure these foreign sources. Japan is better off seeking fuller relations and even integration with the US than going back to the days of the Rising Sun.68.164.3.124 (talk) 22:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adding Brazil and Japan to the map

Current version
Extended version

I wanted to let you all know that I have added Brazil and Japan to my map, but I am not making a section for them on the main article. The reasoning, Brazil and Japan have been mentioned as potential superpowers on several references, and are mentioned on the several of the foreign-wiki pages (e.g., Portuguese, Spanish). Do I think these two countries should get their own section, that is up the the consensus. However, I do think these two nations should be mentioned (in some way) on this page. Even if it were to be one statement saying "Brazil and Japan show some potential for becoming a superpower, but this is only due to exports and imports" or something in that nature. But I have decided to add them to my map and the key, and that is as far as I am going to go. — NuclearVacuum 01:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have a proposal for the article here so please come and add your two cents. For now though, I'm going to remove Brazil and Japan until we can get a consensus so the page doesn't look as sloppy. Deavenger (talk) 08:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't remove the map, and added a little thing how they're not as much mentioned as the current four countries. However, I have a problem with the Brazil source as it only calls Brazil a superpower/potential superpower in the article title, and everywhere else in the article, it calls Brazil a rising regional powerhouse. A regional power and superpower are two different things. Deavenger (talk) 08:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd just like to say that I don't like the inclusion of Brazil nor Japan. We've been over Brazil half a dozen times (see previous talk-pages) and my thoughts remain the same until someone comes up with some good reasons as to why we should keep Brazil (if it isn't a potential superpower it shouldn't be in the article at all). I can only remember one good source portaying Brazil as a genouine superpower (I'm too lazy to dig it up now, but look through the achives). Japan hasn't been seriously speculated to become any superpower since, at least, the late 80s. I don't want to go against the consensus, but I strongly vote to change both the map and the introduction back to their original forms. Swedish pirate (talk) 10:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Pirate. Deavenger (talk) 15:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I still think they should be referenced in this article in some way. Every other wiki mentions Brazil. — NuclearVacuum 16:13, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Brazil and Japan, in my opinion, shouldn't be on this list, Japan especially. In the 80's, yes, it was considered to be a potential superpower, but now, with limited military strength, little foreign influence, competition from China, a shrinking population...it's hard to say it'll be a superpower right now.
Brazil is actually a lot stronger in terms of becoming a great power, but it lacks influence outside of Latin America and the Lusosphere in general.- Ryan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adilrye 1467 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree with Pirate and Deavenger, we've had this discussion lots of times already.

BTW, you should've waited until there was a consensus to change the map and legend in the article, the more proper thing to do it to change it back the way it was before until we solve anything here. Supaman89 (talk) 22:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alrighty than, I removed Brazil and Japan from the map. However, I still want them to be mentioned in some way in this article. Even if it were to say "Brazil and Japan have absolutely no chance of becoming a superpower in your lifetime." — NuclearVacuum 00:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We could do somehting like that. What we could say something like Brazil and Japan are both considered Rising powers, however, they're not considered potential superpowers. As all the current potentials that we have now are also rising powers, just some people think they will be or are superpowers. However, I think we really need to add a couple of sections on the history of potential superpower (like Japan in the 80's) and methods IR people used to try and predict them. Deavenger (talk) 09:01, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Iran

Some believe Iran wants hegemony and eventually to be a Muslim superpower. How can this be reflected?Tallicfan20 (talk) 18:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this page is about potential superpowers currently, however, I'm hoping that my proposal here will go through. However if it doesn't, then I'm hoping to expand this page. Right now, we have the four countries/unions that academics think are the most likely to be superpowers, and the most often mentioned. We also have two countries which are also mentioned but not enough as the four main countries (though the sources on the two countries needs to be checked over because it might be OR or SYN). Then, we could add a small section on countries like Iran who is trying to be a superpower, but most academics don't believe that it is a superpower or will be a superpower. However, right now I want to add more on the history of potential superpowers and how they tried to predict them like Japan in the 80's before I add any more things. Deavenger (talk) 02:05, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Where did you hear they were expected (or wanted) to be a superpower? I've heard a lot of talk about them being a large regional power, but never a global one. TastyCakes (talk) 15:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know the current president always goes on about Iran being a superpower, but otherwise, nothing more then that. Deavenger (talk) 15:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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