Talk:St Davids

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I removed the ref to Exeter Station - sorry but felt it was just too tangential to stay.

I agree. If it's to stay it should be on a separate page. Marnanel 00:14, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I removed it again. I cannot see why it needs to be here. It just isn't close enough to warrant a mention. 138.37.188.109 16:30, 4 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Tŷddewi

Should it be "Tyddewi"? Do you need the accent in a compound word? I mean, nobody writes "Caernarfôn". 66.92.237.111 17:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's correct. See the 'Cymraeg' interwiki link for example. Gareth 15:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

St. David's, Ontario, Canada

Sadly, my home town of St. David's in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, Canada is not represented on Wikipedia, although it's neighbouring villiages of Queenston and Virgil are described. How do I create a page for St. Davids, Ontario, Canada, without making confusion with St.Davids, in the UK? Might it be appropriate to create a redirect page that arises from the search "St. Davids," at which Wikipedia visitors could choose:

St.Davids, Pembrokeshire, Wales, United Kingdom
St.Davids, Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, Canada

Thanks for your help. Can't wait to contribute to the page for my town. Cheers. --Marc Yarascavitch 09:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just create a St David's, Ontario page for now and if Wikipedians think that a disambig page is needed then this page can be moved at a later date. Owain (talk) 10:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apostrophe?

I'm somewhat confused by the apostrophe included in the city name "St David's"? Surely the correct title is "St Davids"? Whether grammatically appropriate or not, the term I remember (having lived there for 5 years) was always used without the apostrophe. E.g. see the website www.stdavids.co.uk, or indeed any of the official websites at the bottom of the article page. I will therefore attempt to modify this site accordingly, though as new to wikipedia, not sure how to modify the title. DoctorMartin 18:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, odd. Ordnance Survey maps clearly have an apostrophe in ([1]), but locals seem to prefer to not have one (eg. [2], [3]). Google hits are inconclusive: "st davids" pembrokeshire [4] gets 211,000 whilst "st david's" pembrokeshire gets only 118,000 [5]; on the other hand, "st david's" wales gets 424,000 [6] whilst "st davids" wales gets only 346,000 [7]. Can anyone confirm the official name? If it is "St Davids", then pages will need to be moved as wikilinks are breaking all over the place at then moment. DWaterson 19:31, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

see: [8]: St David's, Pembrokeshire, for the city, Cathedral and St David's Head, but the Bishop of St Davids does not take the apostrophe Agathoclea 21:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whithorn

I'm told Whithorn in south west Scotland is also a city. But is the population smaller? --MacRusgail 16:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect you have been mislead. The places with City status in Scotland are Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, and Stirling. Cheers, DWaterson 17:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

English names, etc

I have changed Tyddewi, Cymru and St Dafydd (sic) to their English forms in this English Wikipedia article. There's plenty of opportunity to use Welsh in the rather rudimentary cy:Wicipedia article. I also took out the reference to Little England beyond Wales since, as the latter article shows, St David's is not in it. . . . .LinguisticDemographer 16:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

St David's and the Cathedral Close

User:Skinsmoke has edited this article several times to state that the official name of the town is "St David's and the Cathedral Close" rather than "St David's". I can find no evidence to support this claim. St David's and the Cathedral Close is clearly the name of the Community which currently holds the city charter. However the London Gazette states that the city charter was conferred on "the Town of St Davids"[9] and the name of the electoral division of Pembrokeshire County Council is called "St David's". Therefore, if there are no objections, I will revert these changes. DWaterson (talk) 18:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, it was not me who made the most recent edit adding St David's and the Cathedral Close as the official title. Please check the History and you will see that it was User:Cuchullain on 27 July 2009.

The only organisation in Wales entitled to describe itself as a "town" is a community. The situation is set out on Wikipedia under community :-

"Community councils in Wales are identical to English parish councils in terms of their powers and the way they operate. Welsh community councils may call themselves town councils unilaterally and may have city status granted by the Crown. In Wales, all town councils are community councils. There are currently two communities with city status: Bangor and St David's. The Chair of a town council or city council will usually have the title Mayor (Welsh: maer). However, not every community has a council. In communities with populations too small to justify a full community council, community meetings may be established."

Prior to the award of city status, St David's Community Council had adopted "town" status, presumably because they thought this would enhance their application to become a city, or so the chairman would be titled mayor. The conferring of city status on the "town" was therefore conferral on the community. You might also care to take a look at St David's City Council's website, which states :-

"St.Davids City Council represents the people of St.Davids, the smallest City in Wales and the United Kingdom, having a population of nearly 1600 on the last electoral roll.

Situated at the tip of the south western peninsula of Wales, St.Davids is where St.David, the patron saint of Wales, was born and established his work. The Christian tradition he created in the 6th century is reflected in the Celtic heritage of this part of the County of Pembrokeshire area and the St.Davids Cathedral was built in the valley where he worked.

The exposed peninsula is famous for its dramatic coastal scenery and its wildlife that appeals to those who enjoy natural history and outdoor pursuits.

The City status of St.Davids, while having ecclesiastical roots going back for centuries, was granted to all of St.Davids by HM the Queen by Royal Charter on 1st June 1995.

The City Council, or the City Council of St.Davids and the Cathedral Close to give its full name, is a Community Council in its role and statutory powers. This site introduces the council and its services, as well as providing links to the Pembrokeshire County Council and Pembrokeshire Coast National Park Authority, as the organisations providing key public services in the area."

I am really not sure why you object so strongly to including this information. Personally, I think it's a rather silly name and, interestingly, doesn't appear to be matched in Welsh, where the city seems to be called merely Tyddewi. However, it is something that makes the city unique, it is verifiable, and it is noteworthy.

If you still want further clarification, I suggest you email the Clerk of St David's City Council at clerk@stdavids.co.uk.

Skinsmoke (talk) 07:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Aha, I see the source of your error in your line, "The only organisation in Wales entitled to describe itself as a "town" is a community." This is disputed because this article is not about the town as an administrative structure, it is about the place. A settlement is de facto called by whatever it is known as; a Community is an administrative structure created by government. Therefore, I dispute that the settlement is called 'St David's and the Cathedral Close' because it is located within the Community of 'St David's and the Cathedral Close'. I am of the opinion that the settlement is known as 'St David's' and is located within a Community called 'St David's and the Cathedral Close'. I would comment that this is a debate that has been had on several occasions before elsewhere on Wikipedia. DWaterson (talk) 22:48, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you want it to be purely about the settlement within the community, then all reference to St David's being a city needs to be removed. The settlement does not hold city status. I understand the argument about the settlement of Carlisle being different from the City of Carlisle, but are you really proposing that, for a place with a population of less than 1,800, Wikipedia should have two articles, one for the community/city/ecclesiastical parish and one for the group of houses at the centre of it? Such a solution would be nonsensical, and would only lead to confusion. I would have thought it shouldn't be too hard to cobble up some sort of wording that keeps the article as one, but mentions the community/city's official title. In any case, the lead needs rewriting: the present wording is apalling! Skinsmoke (talk) 05:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]