Talk:Dai Gohonzon

I am starting a page on the Dai Gohonzon.

Please help if you like.

Thanks.

Faith--Faith Likewater 01:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

As suggested by an editor on the Nichiren article talk page, I moved this information from it's original page (Nichiren) to this one to create a new page specifically on the Dai Gohonzon because the Dai Gohonzon is only considered legitimate by one Nichiren Shoshu school (the Fuji branch) and therefore does not warrant a large section in an article on Nichiren's life. Rather, it warrants it's own separate page and/or a mention in an article about controversies related to Nichiren. The article which originally contained this material listed the Dai Gohonzon under the heading "Completion of Mission in the World" which is a subjective, not scholarly, heading. In any case, this "Dai Gohonzon" page is in progress, not intended to be complete at this point.--Faith Likewater 01:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Please help clean up this page by using in-line citations and removing text that is biased toward a particular Nichiren sect's dogma, traditions, and legends. Most of the current text is not cited and verified, or it is not cited and verified in the words of Nichiren, his contemporaries, or scholars whose work relates to him, his time, and/or his teachings. Thanks much. --Faith Likewater 17:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Working from and citing primary sources is against Wikipedia policy; see WP:ATT. Note that if you write based on your interpretation of primary sources, rather than describe what’s presented in secondary ones, you will be leaving your hard work open to unconditional removal by other editors who will cite original research (see WP:NOR) as grounds.

Further, depending on what you mean, removing text that is “biased toward a particular Nichiren sect’s dogma” is potentially also against Wikipedia policy: the point is not to remove descriptions of one or the other school’s versions of a story, it is to balance them with descriptions of opposing versions of the story; see WP:NPOV.

Fwiw, I think your removal of the section on the Dai-Gohonzon from the Nichiren article is also undesirable: The story was already balanced out (to some extent, at least—it was not very well done, I concede) with presentation of opposing views. If anything, that article needs further citations (not “cites,” whatever they are) to substantiate the descriptions of both sides’ versions, not deletion of “bias.” Best regards, Jim_Lockhart 12:36, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Jim,

You said: "Working from and citing primary sources is against Wikipedia policy"

However, these two sources--one primary, one secondary--are listed as references for the Dai Gohonzon article because I lifted them straight from the original Nichiren article which I didn't write:

The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, Soka Gakkai, 1999 (available online here.)

The Life of Nichiren Daishonin. Kirimura, Yasuji. NSIC, 1980

Hence, the original author of the Dai Gohonzon info in the Nichiren article worked from a primary source (The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin), not me. Or perhaps it wasn't Nichiren's words being referenced but rather those of the book's editors as they appear in the background info.

Anyway, I left the followiing two sources that are on the Nichiren page off of the listed references for the Dai Gohonzon article. But I have no problem listing them here. I just left them out because it appeared to me that all the info from the Dai Gohonzon section came from the 1st two books:

The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, hard cover, Burton Watson, Translator, Soka Gakkai, 2005, ISBN 4-412-01286-7

The Soka Gakkai Dictionary of Buddhism (Seikyo Press), Tokyo, 2002. Available on line here

What needs to happen is that the page numbers that the Dai Gohonzon info comes from in all 4 of these sources, or other sources, needs to be a part of in-line citations in this article and in the Nichren article, too. That was why I added the tag requesting in-line citations. Adding them would simply make the article seem more encyclopedic and less like a pitch from a particular sect.

You wrote: "the point is not to remove descriptions of one or the other school’s versions of a story." I know that. But a real balanced view of the Dai Gohonzon requires an article devoted to the subject because the subject is very weighty. I disagree with you that the Dai Gohonozon info as it appeared in the original Nichiren article needs to be there. Perhaps the Dai Gohonzon info presented in a different format would work in that article. For instance in a section called "Dai Gohonzon" or one called "Nichiren Controversies." The problem is that the Nichren article is already long. And a separate article on the Dai Gohonzon provides room for a full, balanced exploration of the topic.--Faith Likewater 02:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

PPS: Jim you wrote: "not “cites,” whatever they are" but I have no idea what you mean.--Faith Likewater 03:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

1986

Q, if Nigel andrew Kershaw does not exist, then the Dai Gohonzon is afe and well. If Nigel Andrew Kershaw is real than he turned the Dai gohonzon to ash because NICHINYO IS A THIEF due to the truth of the statement below!!! His sickness is to eat human flesh!!! BLOOD CULT! Why the Dai Gohonzon is ash.

What they don't want me to remember,

12 Johnston Street Warilla, NSW Australia in 1986.

Just after Robert Kershaw passed away and his ashes sent to sea, THE SGI deiced that I had been asleep long enough and that it was time for KEN KERSHAW (aka Troy Adams) to receive the “Golden Utterance”. I warned my mother that if they did any thing wrong they would regret it. I remember being drugged, I was being drugged by them from the day my father died.

I remember that the next door neighbors daughter was there. “Michel Stein”. I remember that “Ken Buttron” was invited by “Craig Kershaw” as well as the local police commander. A local pedophile who committed suicide after he was “busted” (you the one, the guy who had that puppet on local TV) as well as “Brother Michael” a catholic monk who also killed himself after he was accused of “molesting” a few boys at “Woolongong Boys High”. (Also had a radio show on Sundays that Craig would call up and is how he knew him).

I remember waiting until the people around the corner had called the police as they thought there was “a weird ritual going on there”. When the “boys in blue” turned up and made there way in, with people saying its a “play rehearsal”.

My cue. Both me and Ken Kershaw had our pants down, they wanted me to rape him as I cut him. Like they forced him to do to me in 1977 in Shalvey, western Sydney. Kylie Kershaw was standing next to Michel Stein, chanting. Craig was about to force me to “rape Ken”, as they arrived. So, knowing that Daisaku Ilkeda was trying to steal the priesthood away, knowing that I was being forced to rape this guy in front of about 100 people including the names above. Knowing that scarification is il legal in Australia, for children any way. Knowing that rape is wrong.

I cut his face, I cut Ken Kershaw's face. Throw the knife at Michel Stein's feet and said “welcome to his blood cult sister”, and she started to scream as I left the stage past the “boy's in blue” as they made there way to the stage to see Ken's blood. IN FRONT OF ABOUT 100 SICK PEOPLE WHO WHERE THERE TO SEE A RAPE!!!

The saddest thing I can say is that I am happy about this matter. I am happy I did it. SELF DEFENCE AGAINST A SICK BLOOD CULT KNOW AS THE SGI WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BUDDHISM. I remember that Daisaku Ilkeda turned up as a one “DR ILKEDA FROM JAPAN” who was happy to work on this case. I remember sitting there saying you will all be condemned in about 23 years, (from 1986, as I left Buddhism in 1983/4).

NIGEL ANDREW KERSHAW, Proclaimed to be Dai Ni Chi Shonin Ge Amida Bu Tsu by Nittatsu Shonin in 1973. To think I predicted the day I would remember this. That I told a court everything I would see over 23 year's. Til this very time. By now some of you with know the truth while others are still holding on to there sins. To think that by Australian Law the Toda Institute is a “mental hospital”, thanks to my predictions, because if it isn't the “blood chanter's would rise”. (That is what I said would happen). That a evil branch of the NSW Police would be formed to help cover up his tracks. That he had to “bribe” the NSW Government. That he gave them what they wanted and in turn they gave him what he wanted. The Albury Wodonga Police are not real police, as Albury is in NSW and Wodonga is in Victoria. Two different states with different laws. But, they seem to have done it. Giving the sick one a supplier. (For if it happens the “blood chanter's will rise, if it is real, the blood chanter's will rise”, is what I said).

That “sensei” was there, but the police where told he was an actor.

Who played “sensei”? Who could carry out this “charade” and get away with it. “Daisaku” was in Nepal, if my mind is right. That he was shocked about this “tragedy”.

Who would come all this way and “play sensei”? Who wanted to see “Ken Kershaw” (AKA Troy Adams) be cut and raped at the same time. He made him do it to me in 1977? Who would write a rape into a Buddhist ritual?

Something you might not know about Nichiren Shoshu. The most hated of the hated, or as it was. The sickest thing the Government could about “Nikko Shonin” and his school was that they ate the flesh off the last high priest's body. A sick lie that would see every canable in Japan seeing there way to Nichiren Shoshu. That with in 150 years of this sick lie being started it had corrupted the whole priesthood. That Nittatsu Shonin put me on the menu so they could eat 'white meat”. (You can't blame them for this sick lie and what happened. Just the people did/ do it. As a Buddhist should not eat meat, we can never eat human flesh. Only “ASH” if it's in the “belief system”. (Which unfortunately it is not inside of Nichiren Buddhism). That this cult with in a cult has infected the SGI and Nichiren Shoshu is evil. The fact that we can change it isn't. Call this the teaching of “ash” if you want, but I wont eat it.

That I sat in a court room in 1986 and told you all. Told every thing. Told you that he would lead them “his” name. IL KE DA = Al-Qae da. Who lent who, “who's” name?

Nichinyo Hayase was in Australia at the time Daisaku Ilkeda was in Nepal? Wasn't he? It was the priesthood who wrote in a rape, and Nichinyo Hayase who wanted to watch. That by now he should of out himself “live on radio” is kinda funny, if you think about it. (As I predicted it, I take it has happening).

I leave you with this quote from “Prince”.

“Sign of the times, mess with your mind. Hurry before it's to late, lets fall in love get married, have a babie. Will call him Nate, if it's a boy. Times”. It's Time...