Talk:Drukpa Kagyu

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This article is about a topic whose name is originally rendered in the Tibetan script; however the article does not have that version of its name in the article's lead paragraph. Anyone who is knowledgeable enough with the original language is invited to assist in adding the Tibetan script.
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"Drukpa" vs. "Drukpa Kagyu"

Dear Wendy L. (IP User:76.89.241.64)

On my talk page you wrote:

To Christopher Fynn,

I am writing from DPPL, official publishing arm of the Drukpa lineage. While we appreciate your detailed contributions to the Drukpa wiki page, our lineage holders consider the lineage to be "Drukpa," rather than "Drukpa Kagyu." We politely request that you refrain from changing the entry back to include "Kagyu." Thank you very much for your understanding.

Wendy L. DPPL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.241.64 (talk) 17:46, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully, in many traditional Tibetan sources and in most modern academic sources this tradition is generally referred to as the "Drukpa Kagyu" ~ and, though it has some unique and special trachings, this lineage has always been considered as an independent branch of the Kagyu tradition established in Tibet by Marpa, Milarepa and Gampopa. The contemporary Bhutanese branch of the Drukpa Kagyu also seems happy to be known as Kagyu, as it frequently identifies itself as such. Since in traditional Tibetan sources, modern academic sources, and elsewhere the tradition is referred to as "Drukpa Kagyu" - this seems most appropriate name to be used in an encyclopedia. It also avoids confusion since today Drukpa also frequently means "Bhutanese"). If for some reason the modern Drukpa (Kagyu) institution or organisation headed by H.H. Drukchen Rinpoche, the respected heirarch of the main Tibetan branch of the Drukpa Kagyu tradition, has chosen to re-brand itself as simply "Drukpa" or "Drukpa Lineage" that is another matter. I presume this is being done in order to give the contemporary Drukpa school an identity clearly distinct from that of e.g. the Karma Kagyu, the Drikung Kagyu, and so on. However, understanstandable as this is, it does not mean that the widely used and accepted term for the historic religious tradition should be changed or altered in an encyclopedia article to align with this contemporay excercise in re-branding. Furthermore, removing from the Drukpa article quotes and references to published sources in which the name "Drukpa Kagyu" is used, apparently simply because you don't like the name, as you appear to have done - is IMO close to sheer vandalism. As you say you are from the "official publishing arm of the Drukpa lineage", do you represent a NPOV in this matter?

Chris Fynn (talk) 13:48, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Wendy, there is no point discussing with Chris Fynn, we had a huge discussion with everyone in th globe (Chris Fynn and Sylvain72 are very popular among many of us, including Rinpoches and Tulkus) and found out more about Chris and his background. There are many "scholars" like that. Look, he is still saying "Drukchen Rinpoche" and that's why when some histories were manipulated hundreds of years ago, before we were born, this is the end-result. Let's spend our time building our Wiki. Forget about this!+118.100.72.169 (talk) 21:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it just as objectionable for Wendy L to remove nearly all references to "Drukpa Kargyu" or "Drukpa Kagyu" in an encyclopedia article simply to comply with DPPL preferences? Drukpa Kagyu is after all the way this school of Buddhism is usually referred to in both academic publications and popular books on Buddhism. While her reasoning is clearly outlined in the sub-section Name incorporated into the the article this does not alter the fact that many other reputable sources, including many followers, still refer to the school as the Drukpa Kagyu. Lodu (talk) 07:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. This page is not NPOV at all.Sylvain1972 (talk) 13:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Google Book Search currently gives only 14 hits for publications with the phrase "Drukpa Lineage" but 542 for those with "Drukpa Kagyu" ~ something like 1:38. "Drukpa school" has 137 hits, but together at 151 that is still only about a third of those using "Drukpa Kagyu". There are a number of publications using both terms. "Drukpa Kargyu" (with an "r") also has 54 hits, "Drukpa Kagyupa" 166, and "Drukpa Kargyupa" 46. Wikipedia:Naming conventions lists "Prevalence in reliable sources" as a criteria. Lodu (talk) 05:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]