Talk:Sylar

Sylar's power is not, and never has been, empathic mimicry.

Empathic mimicry is a power separate to intuitive aptitude; saying otherwise is merely speculation as it was never stated in the show. The empathy is just another part of his main power i.e. understanding the other person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.107.201 (talk) 22:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

It was actually stated by Arthur in the show. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 22:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

No, it was stated by Arthur that Sylar could use his empathy; once again, this is different to the specific power of empathic mimicry. Peter Petrelli is able to acquire powers without concious thought as demonstrated throughout the show so far. Sylar had to actively concentrate to do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.107.201 (talk) 23:05, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Arthur stated "You can take all the ablities you want without killing." "By accessing your empathy, that part of your heart I know is there. You've had this power all along." We have to go off of that. You're speculating that empathic mimicry is only part of his powers. You're also speculating that he had to actively concentrate to use empathy. He could have absorbed it, but had trouble using it.

If you're one of the writers and know this for certain, then get an interview and we can source it off of that, but else, it's speculation unless said in the show. Arthur stated that Sylar had the same ability that Peter did. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 00:06, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I am speculating, sorry. However if I am, you certainly are as well; Arthur never states that Sylar has the same power as Peter, merely that he has had empathy in his heart all along. No one in the show has exhibited more than one natural power, so I really don't think it should be listed as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.107.201 (talk) 01:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

In this Q&A session with Joe Pokaski and Aron Coliete, it is stated that there is no difference between Sylar "using his ability to ‘understand how things work’ through empathy" and Peter's method of power acquisiton. IMO that should be good enough unless it's contradicted by a better source. Maybe their powers aren't identical, but they don't need to be. I haven't seen anyone arguing that we shouldn't call Flint's power pyrokinesis because we already use that term to describe Meredith's power and Flint's flames are blue rather than orange. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Nobody exhibited more than one power? Not the Haitian? And also possibly Matt Parkman and Aurthur Patrelli? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.90.25 (talk) 06:32, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

In "I Am Sylar", when Danko asks Sylar who did he kill for his ability to understand how things work, Sylar says that this power is the only which was "always truly mine". Taking this in consideration, his empathic acquisition of abilities appears to be an aspect of his understanding power, not empathic mimicry, he doesn't get powers just by standing near people, he needs to put some effort in it, unlike Peter's original ability. 189.60.194.58 (talk) 01:01, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The comic book resources article has confirmed that the method Sylar used to acquire Elle Bishop's power in The Eclipse, Part 1 is identical or nearly identical to the method of power acquisition used by Peter Petrelli in the first two seasons. "Always truly mine" has several plausible interpretations, it could refer to how Sylar didn't discover his empathic mimicry until long after he discovered his intuitive aptitude ability, to Sylar not being comfortable with his empathic mimicry, or it could indicate that Sylar considers mimicry a facet of his intuitive aptitude. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

You almost made my point for me, Sylar did use an empathy to get Elle's ability, but it certainly not empathic mimicry. Empathic mimicry as shown before by Peter allows the user to absorb abilities by merely standing next to the person, Sylar had to go through a very emotional moment in order to understand Elle, understand being the key word. His ability is to understand how things work, he usually understands how the brain works to get an ability, with Elle, he just understood her from another perspective. If Sylar had empathic mimicry he'd have her ability since she stopped him from killing himself. His understand Elle is merely another facet of his ability to understand how things work, another application of it. His empathy is not and has never been the same as Peter's, the only similarity between them is that emotions allow them to acquire other's abilities, and that's it. I'd say it's almost an homologous process, but still distinct processes and distinct abilities. 189.4.242.42 (talk) 22:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Just because I'm not a registered user it doesn't mean I don't like being ignored, I have yet to see someone put forward a good counterargument for what I said above, a couple months seems enough to come up with one. 189.4.233.126 (talk) 20:42, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

IMO we should either handle his powers in the infobox like we do for Matt Parkman (with separate entries for each major application of his base power or powers), or like we do for Hiro Nakamura (listing each major application of his base power as a bullet point under his base power). -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Sylar used empathetic mimicry to take James Martin's power of shape shifting. Thats why there was no mess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.193.229 (talk) 01:14, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Flight?? Don't think so

There is no evidence to justify saying that Sylar took Nathan's ability for flight. I was particularly shocked by this'un because specifically, it was only the second time I'd ever see Sylar kill someone without taking their ability, the first being his Mommy, which doesn't count as [a] unintentional and [b] no power to take. If you would like to rewatch the season finale, I think you'll find Nathan's throat was slit, not his skull. I'll try to remove this, though I haven't diddled with a chart on wikipedia before, so I'll do so carefully. malenkylizards 74.10.227.130 (talk) 17:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Sylar doesn't have to cut his skull open to get his power. He has taken on most of Nathan's memories, so he understands Nathan enough to absorb his power, which he displays during the fight. Ophois (talk) 17:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, conceded that he can take the powers empathically. But do *I* need to rewatch it? Did we see Sylar fly?? Did he do this before killing him? This could be embarrassing.  :-p malenkylizards 74.10.227.130 (talk) 17:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Sylar flies right before killing Nathan. Ophois (talk) 18:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

You're gonna need more than that to put something like that in the article Ophois. Are you really gonna make me say the words? Padillah (talk) 18:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, for instance, could you convince me that it wasn't Sylar grabbing onto Nathan as he flew out the window? I'll rewatch the scene when I'm next at a computer that can handle the video :-p malenkylizards 74.10.227.130 (talk) 18:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

We know that Sylar's been able to levitate himself before (attacking Molly Walker and killing Dale Smithers). The first time the audience has explicitly seen Sylar do it was during his fight with Nathan (though he didn't look exactly graceful while in the air). Since Sylar can effectively fly via telekinesis, there is an alternative explanation to him taking Nathan's ability. He may have taken Flight from Nathan during the battle via empathy (he has studied Nathan's history via clairsentience) but until confirmation from the writers, claiming that he has definitively taken Flight is speculation. Pagemaster146 (talk) 18:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Please rewatch the scene. The flight sound effect is clearly used as Sylar flies onto the balcony and lands. If it was telekinesis, then that sound effect would have been used, such as when he was copying Doyle's power on Claire. Ophois (talk) 18:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

It's Gabriel Sylar using TK (telekinesis) similar to Magneto using magnetic fields to levitate instead of flying. (JoeLoeb (talk) 21:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC))

And your evidence of this is...? Ophois (talk) 21:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Just a hunch which I believe. Sylar obviously loves his telekinesis, he uses it every damn time, why no levitate (flying for you). (JoeLoeb (talk) 22:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC))

As I pointed out, the flying sound effect is used. If he was merely using TK, then the TK effect would have been used. Ophois (talk) 23:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

It could be a mistake. Although, Gabriel did take Elle's power though not killing her. Maybe you're right. (JoeLoeb (talk) 00:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC))

Ophois, I rewatched the scene and the evidence is in your favor; however, I still consider the evidence brief, and it honestly doesn't make a lot of sense chronologically or logistically. This encounter is all fighting, and a significant part of it goes on outside of the room, presumably in the air [though this is speculation]. Every other time that Sylar's taken somebody else's power, it's taken some time, some quiet, alone time, with this other person dead, dying or incapacitated. Not with this person flying through the air throwing punches, not in the three seconds Claire was watching through the crack in the door. Until we have further evidence, either from season 4 or confirmation from the writers or whatever, I move to keep flight off the list until then. Reasoning: Power-taking unseen, evidence of flight limited to a single sound effect, unlikely circumstances. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.114.174.169 (talk) 00:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Alone time like he had with Nathan before Claire showed up? He had already gone through all of Nathan's stuff and had a great understanding of him, so not much time is probably needed. Just because he didn't fly before their big fight doesn't mean he didn't already acquire it before that. Ophois (talk) 01:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

It is certainly likely that Sylar obtained Flight (via empathy, resulting from understanding Nathan through clairsentience) and, moreso, if Sylar is supposed to believe he is actually Nathan, he needs to have Flight (since Nathan did) to mask the fact that he is not really Nathan. However, until it is confirmed, we should leave it off. Pagemaster146 (talk) 01:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why it is being kept off. I can understand that it can be speculation that he got it from Nathan, but the flight sound effect confirms that he can fly. I don't see how there can be any argument against that. If nothing else, it should be listed that he can fly but given Unknown as the source of the power. Ophois (talk) 01:25, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

You're right concerning his ability to fly (or levitate) regardless of the power source. I've added a blurb referencing him using telekinesis to sneak up on Dale Smither via levitation. That's the best we can do for now. However, regarding sound effects used on the show, it is known has been pointed time and again that sound effects are often used for the "coolness" factor (e.g. scary voices back in S1), so the usage of a specific sound is not irrefutable proof of Flight usage. Pagemaster146 (talk) 04:57, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

...so I totally just added flight without seeing this whole section. Crap. EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Since the power can't be conclusively determined in the episode, refer to WP:RS please. Wait for a writer/actor to discuss this aspect of his power in an interview. --Madchester (talk) 22:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Pagemaster, what do you mean "time and again"? That happened once or twice in the first season only. I don't ever recall anything like that happening again. And there's a difference between having a sound effect when he's yelling and having the flight sound effect while the character is actually flying. The TK sound effect is used right before when Nathan is thrown into the room. If Sylar had been using TK, then that sound would have played, not the flying sound effect. Ophois (talk) 01:07, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

There, I removed "time and again". The point still stands. (For another example of sound ambiguity, there was some debate back at the beginning of Fugitives as to whether Sylar used puppet mastery to make Luke and his mom stop talking when he was torturing Agent Simmons; the same hand movement and sounds were used, but that did not mean Sylar had obtained puppet mastery and we haven't added it to his power list). Given that, I actually agree with you that Sylar has probably taken Flight, simply because if he doesn't demonstrate it now that he's "Nathan", he'll know something's wrong. However, there is enough evidence right now to support either side of the debate and, until an authority decides one way or the other, any decision is speculation. Pagemaster146 (talk) 02:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

We don't really know the extent of Sylar's psychokinesis. In an earlier episode (I forget which one but it was in Season one when he attacked Molly Walker at FBI HQ) Sylar levitated. This may have been what he was showing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.61.173 (talk) 02:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Are sound effects now being used as reliable sources? ~QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 16:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Puppeteering

In Season 3 final episode "An Invisible Thread" it is clearly shown how Sylar manipulates Clair Bennets movements. While this could be argued to be only another facet of his TK I find it hard to believe he'd have Eric Doyle in his grasp and not take his power (Cold snap). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.51.55 (talk) 18:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The sound effects for the scene show that it is merely telekinesis. Ophois (talk) 18:38, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Not only that, but there are several characters that have met Sylar and not had their powers stolen (Micah, Luke, and Sylar's dad being the most obvious examples). He doesn't kill absolutely everyone he comes across. EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:36, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

After the training with Elle, Sylar know how to acquire powers without killing. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

But Wikipedia isn't supposed to host original speculation. Listing puppetry or flight after it's confirmed in a reliable source such as an interview, a commentary track or a statement by a character on the show would be okay. Mentioning speculation by established authorities in the field (such as television critics) may be okay as long as it is described as an interpretation rather than an established fact. Mentioning speculation by fans might also be acceptable if that speculation if it's adequately sourced and described as fan speculation, as is the case for the discredited fan thories mentioned in the Lost article. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:20, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

What about Ali Larter appearing at the end? Every artical on here states that it is Tracy Strauss but it could just as easily be her sister Barbarra. Using your own arguement, that is speculation. I think it is Mr Doyles ability as it makes more sense conisdering the puppet power controlls every limb with ease and it would take a lot of skill in telekenesis to control each individual limb.Wild_ste (talk) 15:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.81.189.20 (talk)

I think the episode credits should be presumed to be trustworthy. Is she listed as playing Tracy Strauss in the credits? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

In season 1 Sylar uses TK to control the FBI agent's hand, causing her to draw her own gun and hold it to her temple while she is otherwise frozen. This does not seem overly different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.78.141 (talk) 15:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Mrs. Gray

I know she was disturbed and all, but why did Gabriel/Sylar keep on saying that his mother was a monster who tried to kill him. I thought it was an accident and all. (JoeLoeb (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC))

Him killing her was an accident (although he now claims he meant to do it). She intended to kill him, though. Ophois (talk) 23:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I would be freaked out if my son was deranged and hurling snow globes around me. Gabriel probably says he meant to do it to make him seem more psychotic or to intimidate someone like Danko. (JoeLoeb (talk) 00:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC))

Played by stunt doubles?

I suspect that statement that "Prior to Quinto's first appearance in the episode "Seven Minutes to Midnight", the role of Sylar is played by stunt doubles" is inaccurate, as someone could only be Zachary Quinto's stunt double for heroes after Zachary Quinto had been cast for Heroes. If Sylar was consistently played by stunt men prior to Seven Minutes to Midnight, the article should state he was played by stunt men. If he was played by a combination of stunt men and extras, it should state he was played by stunt men and extras. If he was played solely by extras, it should state that he was played by extras. If Sylar was consistently played by a specific actor's stunt double, it should say whose stunt double played him. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:27, 24 May 2009 (UTC)