Talk:Dutch resistance

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I've added to the sentence "most of the initial resistance came from Social Democrats, Catholics and Communists", because my (Dutch) history teacher taught me that the initial resistance came from communists and protestants, social democrats and catholics coming into resistance only much later. I unfortunately have no written source to back this. Qwertyus 15:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Minor edit made, "Discovery by the Germans of involvement in the resistance often meant an immediate death sentence." Added "often", as it did not always result in death. There were many arrested resistance men and women who survived the war, though quite often they were killed or sent to concentration camps. The book "To Save a Life" by Ellen Land-Weber (ISBN 0-252-02515-6) sourced. 24.137.105.8 17:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

English game

Other articles refer to the "English Game", whereby the German intelligence penetrated and compromised Dutch Resistance. Any info? Folks at 137 08:16, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

You are referring to the [Englandspiel] in which the germans used a captured agent to request additional agents and supplies, it wasn't so much a infiltration in the 'dutch' resistance as an infiltration into an SOE (British) operation Remko2 (talk) 22:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Translation of 'onderduikers'

The word 'onderduikers' has been literally translated to 'under-divers' and then in the organisation section not translated at all. I have changed all 3 to "people in hiding". (I'm a Dutch speaker so I can confirm that's the best translation possible - there's no single English word to describe onderduikers) Oplossing is duidelijk 20:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Pro Dutch pov?

Modern critics seriously doubt the efficacy of the dutch resistance, as well as its support in the general population. I think the article as it is now is fairly positive;and I would be very careful to take on the criticism on the Dutch when further developing this article. Arnoutf (talk) 19:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Can you be specific? Some modern critics names or documentation concerning the matter? 99.240.198.86 (talk) 20:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Dutch Communist Resistance

The article states that the communist resistance is not mentioned, this is entirely correct, as the RVV (Raad van verzet) was comprised for a large part of Communists i.e. Hannie Schaft, Jan Bonekamp, Truus en Freddie Oversteegen. Remko2 (talk) 22:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The RVV was a combination of several resistance groups, in which also the communist party participated. The RVV was founded at the end of the war when most communist resistance partiicpants were already arrested and murdered. Right wing resistance groups did not want to cooperate with the RVV and used the argument that it was communistic. Howaever, this was a falsification for propagandistic reasons.Robvhoorn (talk) 17:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

In answer to the remarks by Radeksz: The reference to the CIA-description is pointing to a cold war lie. Unfortunately, due to the cold war there are no good sources for the importance of the communist resistance. The communist resistance started on May 15th 1940 and not after the invasion in the Soviet Union. From the first anti-Jewish measurements by the German the communists protested and gave support to the Jews. Other resistance groups reacted in the beginning hardly against the anti-Semitic measurements; they had sometimes even an anti-Semitic nature by themselves (cf. the gruesome murdering of the Jewish social-democratic alderman De Miranda in the concentration camp Amersfoort by members of the resistance group De Geuzen). The major part of the Jewish resistance was communist resistance. Already in August 1940 there was a special branch of the German GESTAPO that was fighting the communist resistance. Catholic resistance was non-existing until 1943. Of the social democrats only a small group started resistance in August 1940 and only in the course of 1942 it became important. Except the national railway strike in the fall of 1944, all major strikes were organised by the communists. Right wing resistance was very small in the beginning, the major groups were the Stijkel group of about 70 persons en the Geuzen of about the same size, compared to the communist resistance existing of 2000 persons. In the first year of the war the resistance existed for 90% of communists. Non-communist resistance became important from 1943 and grew enormously in September 1944 when allied armies entered The Netherlands. At that time the most of the communist resistance participants were murdered or disappeared in concentration camps. After the liberation the population appreciated the communist resistance such that the communist newspaper became the biggest newspaper and in fear of a communist election victory the government delayed the national election for more than a year. Because of the support of the Dutch communists to the dominance of Stalin over Eastern Europe resulted in the loss of support of the population. The policy of Wikipedia requiring sources results in hiding the truth and resulting in the use of cold war sources like that of the CIA. In the present article the importance of the communist resistance is strongly undervalued, the importance of the other resistance is overvalued. Due to a lack of written sources I will not change the article, I will wait until the appearance of more adequate literature.Robvhoorn (talk) 22:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Ad Paulen

Although it is often said that Ad Paulen was a participant in resistance, accept his own statement there is no independent source for it. Actually, he was at the beginning of the war a member of the board of the fascistic Black Front, which changed its name in National Front. The Fuehrer of that group was the well-known fascist Arnold Meijer. It supported the ideas of Mussolini, which differed slightly from the ideas of Hitler. At the beginning of the war Ad Paulen supported the idea of an in name independent Netherlands under German Leadership. The National Front was very anti-Semitic. One of the members was General Seyffardt, founder of the East Legion that fought togetehet with the Germans against the Soviet Union; Seyffardt was later murdered by the famous communistsic oriented resistance group CS6. Confusion is understandable becaus Paulen received the highest military decoration. But as many opportunists, Paulen switched sides after the German defeat near Stalingrad. Therefore, I remove Paulen. Robvhoorn (talk) 17:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality

"Prior to the German invasion, the Netherlands had adhered to a policy of strict neutrality." That statement isn't exactly true. While the Netherlands did proclaim neutrality they at least gave passive support to the German war effort by allowing Allied planes to fly over their territory. I've also heard they allowed British agents and troops to move through the Netherlands, but can not confirm the validity right now. --41.18.153.104 (talk) 13:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Error under the header activities?

Under the header activities theres this: The next day city hall in Amsterdam was blown up in order to destroy all records.

I believe this to be an error. City hall in Amsterdam was not the subject of a sabotage / resistance attack that day as far as I know and could find back in a quick search on the internet. According to for example this stub article on the Dutch wikipedia: the 'bevolkingsregister' (municipal records on persons) were attacked by resistance members. Perhaps this fact somehow got into this article in the wrong (i.e. factually incorrect) manner. There was an attempt to bomb the national house of records, which held copies of the information on 'persoonsbewijzen' (personal identification cards) but that house of records was a house named Kleykamp in Den Haag (the Hague). Later on that was succesfully bombed by the RAF, killing 61 people. I wrote this last bit here to provide some background into what I believe may also be the source of that quoted sentence.

Should we remove the sentence? Mlodewijk (talk) 17:14, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I forgot to sign the above statement, so I did it now. On top of that I made a mistake myself in the above statement. The attempt to burn a bevolkingsregister (population register) was in Amsterdam according to this Dutch languaged website: , but it was in 1943, this therefore can in no way have been the described event in the article, nor was it related to the Februaristaking, which is also described in that paragraph.

I am so sorry, I forget to sign again, so now I do Mlodewijk (talk) 17:18, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Names removed

After the war a million people claimed to have been member of Dutch resistance. In reality several ten thousands were involved in resistance and only a few thousand participated in organized resistance. Maybe hundreds of them are important enough for mentioning in an encyclopaedia. I removed a few names, because these persons are completely unknown in The Netherlands. One can only add persons when notable resistance acts are known, i.e. they should have a lemma in either the English or the Dutch Wikipedia with description of resistance acts. Vandermeersche was a Belgian resistance persons and should not mentioned here.