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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Unknownwarrior33 (talk | contribs) at 18:05, 28 October 2009 (→Reception/Criticisms). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Reception/Criticisms

Why does something this widespread have NO criticisms section of any kind? The iPhone is NOT perfect and this page can't possibly be bconsidered neutral if it doesn't cover any crticisms of the phone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.30.238.67 (talk) 05:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because a well-written article doesn't have one. See WP:STRUCTURE as to why, or just read the FAQ on this page that I'm guessing you skipped before posting. -- Atama頭 05:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I can see why many people expect a criticism section. This is the way people are taught how to write in school today. Whenever a class on term paper writing is taught, the teacher requires separation of pros and cons. I've always believed they teach this style to make it easier for the teacher to grade, as teachers are looking for a balance of pros and cons, and grouping the ideas likes make for easier reading. But students don't realize that beyond school, this is NOT the way to write. As Atama pointed out, a properly written article blends the pros and cons throughout the article. I really hate it when lazy readers want to bring bad writing style into Wikipedia just to make it easier for them to eyeball the article for components they're interested in. Groink (talk) 08:28, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I also think it comes from those who don't understand the goal of Wikipedia. Since it is an encyclopedia, and not a buyer's guide, the main goal is not to make a stand about what is "right" and "wrong" about the product. This is for reviewers and journalists, but not for encyclopedias. Brian Reading (talk) 17:42, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's incredibly naive to suggest that people don't use Wikipedia as a "buyer's guide", and furthermore, avoiding a criticism section on this page and not on the pages of other similar products is an incredible double standard. So unless you're going to all the other pages for cell phones and getting rid of the criticism sections, I don't think you can make that argument. To avoid the double standard, I have changed the name of the section. I am in the process of trying to get rid of the criticism section in the page for one of the iphone's competitors, Android.

Here's another fact for you: the OS X page also does not have a criticism section; there is an entire article of criticism for Windows. Style and formatting are not the problems; the problem is one of bias. I have tried to lobby for the deletion of the ciriticism pages, but I was shot down multiple times. So clearly, criticism sections are here to stay and you can't crusade against them only on subjects you like --Unknownwarrior33 (talk) 16:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a double standard. Articles have criticism sections as a crutch, the articles that have them should be improved by having the criticisms integrated throughout the article. If following Wikipedia policies and guidelines is incredibly naive, then by all means, call me naive. -- Atama頭 16:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What's incredibly naïve is to suggest that Wikipedia should serve as a buyer's guide without knowing the official policy of the project. Read up, Wikipedia is an encylopedia, not an end-all resource of information. This is the case, whether users WANT to use it for that or not. Brian Reading (talk) 17:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you push for the same thing on other pages, it most certainly IS a double standard, and you have yet to show me any evidence of the contrary. Surely you have time to pop by the Android or Windows Mobile pages and get rid of the Criticism sections, as I have been trying to do. But I guess I'm talking to myself at this point; regardless of what you and I say, Apple fanboys will never allow criticism of Apple products on Wikipedia. Am I really the only person who sees this, and thinks it should change? --Unknownwarrior33 (talk) 17:46, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unknownwarrior33, this article has undergone years of work. It took me hours to initially integrate the criticisms from the criticisms section to the rest of the article (yes, this article did have such a section at one time). It's not something anyone can just "pop over" and do. It takes time to figure out exactly where each criticism should go into the narrative of the article, how to keep it from ruining the flow of text, how to avoid non sequiturs, etc. That's why we have criticism sections in some articles, it's just easier. And it's tolerated because it's better to have a criticism section than to have no criticisms at all. But to integrate the criticisms means to make an article better, this is part of the WP:NPOV policy. When you start tossing around insults like "Apple fanboys", though, it's clear that you're not here to reason or improve the article. -- Atama頭 17:54, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, just some disclosure, I'm far from an Apple fanboy and especially not an iPhone fanboy. I owned an original iPhone and had no end of problems with it. The sound on the device finally died and the Apple Store refused to fix or replace it. I use a Windows Mobile device now, and am much happier. If Wikipedia didn't have a policy against original research I'd complain about Safari crashing all the time, and the Apple updates wiping out the phone info, the backups not working, etc. But since those are only my experiences I can't do that. If you know of any criticisms or problems with the iPhone that are notable, and that can be properly referenced, that are currently missing in the article please let them be known. We have a number of problems already discussed and it would be great to add more. -- Atama頭 17:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I was not calling you an apple fanboy; I was simply stating that apple fanboys are a real issue that Wikipedia needs to deal with. As for this specific issue, the problem is not the lack of a criticism section, but a lack of criticism altogether. There were notable examples here at some point; all of them have been either removed or reframed to sound like they're not criticisms. My focus right now is balancing the Android page, but I'm concerned about this one too. I'm not trying to make personal attacks. --Unknownwarrior33 (talk) 18:05, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anybody add Hacktivating?

Anybody wanna add hacktivating? Hacktivating is activating the phone without going through iTunes or anything. Basically if you have an locked iPhone locked to the Emergency Screen and don't have a AT&T Sim Card you can "hacktivate" it by jailbreaking it (though some solutions don't hacktivate like blackra1n) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.250.149 (talk) 07:24, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We generally don't go into details on jailbreaking, because we don't want this to become an instruction manual. I don't see how "hacktivating" is separate from, or more notable than general jailbreaking which is already mentioned. -- Atama頭 23:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Additional info to the section 'SIM unlocking'

In Brazil it is forbidden to impose carrier-specific SIM locking. While most cell phone operators still sell locked phones, they are required by law to perform the unlock free of charge any time the customer requests it, regardless of contracts or subsidizing that may have occurred when selling the phone. The only requirement is to present the phone's original acquisition receipt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.153.253.102 (talk) 17:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reference to back that up? If so, we might be able to add it to the article. -- Atama頭 18:32, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apple's iPhone infringes Nokia patents

http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1349562 Nokia sues Apple in Delaware District Court for infringement of Nokia GSM, UMTS and WLAN patent

Nokia announced that it has today filed a complaint against Apple with the Federal District Court in Delaware, alleging that Apple's iPhone infringes Nokia patents for GSM, UMTS and wireless LAN (WLAN) standards.

Should this be included in the section about intellectual property of iphone? --Quest for Truth (talk) 04:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]


definatly belongs.. added it and your ref to article.. feel free to expand on it -Tracer9999 (talk) 14:00, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good find! :) -- Atama頭 05:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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