Talk:2012 Republican Party presidential primaries

Future

I believe that we don't need to get rid of the potential candidates after someone announces their candidacy. We can keep them all the way through the the primary election season. Here is a good example: Democratic Party (United States) presidential candidates, 2008. Does anyone disagree?--Jerzeykydd (talk) 18:11, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

We should, however, add the official ones to the 2012 page. Diamond Dave 19:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by David1982m (talk • contribs)

Agree with all of the above.--JayJasper (talk) 19:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Shorten the Potential Candidates List

It seems really unnecessary to have a mini paragraph after each source that is cited in favor of a potential candidate. Why don't we simply put two or three references after the name of each potential candidate (EDIT: To clarify, the list would look like this *Gov. John Doe[1][2] *Sen. Jane Doe[1][2][3], etc. with no third column necessary), and do away with that last column altogether? It would make the page much cleaner and neater. If people want to know what each source says about each candidate, they can click the link and read it themselves. Thoughts? --Ai.kefu (talk) 21:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Ages of Candidates

In 'United States presidential election, 2012' http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=United_States_presidential_election,_2012&oldid=306108614 at 23:49, 4 August 2009 I had entered some information about ages of candidates and those who would, if elected, be the oldest/second oldest and youngest/second youngest ever elected. David1982m said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2012 'I was looking at the sections in regard lengthy and as much as I kind of like the Age references they are really original work and taking up a lot of space in articles. If I have no objections, I will remove them.' Timmeh said 'Remove them, unless the candidate is over 65 (the standard retirement age in the US).'

I feel that, if links were added to sources giving the dates of birth of the people in question, and to sources giving the ages at inauguration of the oldest President ever elected (Reagan), the youngest President ever elected (Kennedy) and the youngest President ever inaugurated (Theodore Roosevelt), this would not constitute original research. After all, it is not original research to state '2 + 2 = 4'. I therefore propose to reinstate this information for Bobby Jindal and Ron Paul. I also propose adding it for Dick Cheney in the following terms 'If nominated and elected, he would be 71 on Inauguration Day 2013, and 75 at the completion of his first term. He would thus be older than any President has been when first inaugurated (a record held by Ronald Reagan, who was just short of 70). Alekksandr (talk) 16:39, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.--JayJasper (talk) 19:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Santorum only has one source?

Unless I am mistaken I thought it was agreed, all these possible candidates needed at least 2 sources? I won't take him down without any feedback, but he should be taken down if someone can't find a second source published before March 2009, to go in accordance of the definition of this section. Diamond Dave 14:09, 17 August 2009 (UTC) David1982m (talk • contribs) I think these could be more sources for Santorum: http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/08/18/news/local_state/doc4a83001be9708577272980.txt http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539240,00.html Ratemonth (talk) 02:07, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Bachmann

Here's a recent article on Michelle Bachmann: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106941 in which she speculates on a run for the presidency- it's at the very end of the article. Ratemonth (talk) 01:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok let's dump Santorum because he only has one source and re-add Bachmann because she has 2 sources. That work for everyone? Diamond Dave 14:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by David1982m (talk • contribs)

Sean Hannity?

I took him down once because he was only added with one source, however, he's now back with 2 sources. I'm not so sure how reputable these 2 sources are not too mention they are both from different authors of WorldNetDaily. I am inclined to add the requirements to be at least 2 DIFFERENT sources? Let me know what you think? Diamond Dave 17:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have pic for Gary Johnson?

The list looks awkward without pic for Gary Johnson, does anyone have one?--Diamond Dave 12:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by David1982m (talk • contribs)

Values Voter Summit

I'm not sure exactly how it should be placed, but should Huckabee's winning this straw poll be mentioned in his section? Here's the story: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/eye-on-2012/huckabee-wins-values-voter-str.html?wprss=thefix Ratemonth (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd say yes, because the article is about him winning the poll. It should be used for the others mentioned because the article is not about them. Dick Cheney has one like that from Rassmussen for the same reason. David1982m (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Ensign/Sanford

In the past six months, no article reference has speculated that Ensign or Sanford could run for 2012. So shouldn't we get rid of both of them?--Jerzeykydd (talk) 01:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, per standards.--JayJasper (talk) 04:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I disagree about Sanford, he is still being talked about as having been a potential candidate? Why is his name still circulating? Could there still be interest in him running He is refusing to resign from office now. I'll give Ensign, because his sources are getting older, but Sanford's are very current. If he's refusing to resign, maybe he thinks he still has a shot. David Duke ran once, the odds were against him, he lost, but still ran.

Looking at this further both are still within 6 months. As long as sources keep cropping up specifically about the odds of the running 2012 they still qualify as long as at least one 2 sources are less than 6 months. This means unless more sources come in talking about 2012 and Sanford, he shouldn't be taken down until after December 30, 2009. He would then only be left with one credible source in 6 months, no longer fitting the criteria, he will be removed. Ensign same thing except he can't be dumped until December 16, 2009 for the same reasons. That's why I added the last updated date. Every now and then I check and see who has new listings and then move accordingly. Removing sources that are over 6 months old, if this leaves a candidate with less than one source, they will be removed. Which is Gingrich, Jindal, and Cantor have been removed. Which makes sense because Gingrich has endorsed Pawlenty. --Diamond Dave (talk) 15:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

• If the article is talking about how Sanford won't run, than it shouldn't be there. Only artices that talk about how a candidate may run are acceptable. As far as Ensign, there are absolutely no article in the past six months speculating about him running for 2012, and that's a fact not an opinion.--Jerzeykydd (talk) 20:45, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

That works for me. Sanford, I think should stay because they talk about him, they do however, imply that this is unlikely and foolish decision for him. People are still talking him possibily running and he is refusing to resign. The September article is still talking about him as a potential candidate, so it implies that some think he will run. Ensign is long over, no is even talking about him having been a possibility. So I will agree to keep Ensign down, but Sanford is still valid. --Diamond Dave (talk) 12:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, my understanding is correct, if no new sources talking about these individuals in conjunction to a 2012 run they will be removed on the following dates:

Haley Barbour December 23, 2009
Jeb Bush December 26, 2009
Mike Pence January 13, 2010
Bobby Jindal January 22, 2010
Newt Gingrich February 3, 2010
Gary Johnson March 8, 2010
Rudy Giuliani March 14, 2010
Mike Huckabee March 19,2010
Dick Cheney March 22, 2010
Rick Santorum April 1, 2010
Tim Pawlenty April 7, 2010
Sarah Palin April 17, 2010
Ron Paul April 17, 2010
Mitch Daniels April 18, 2010
Mitt Romney April 20, 2010
Mark Sanford April 25, 2010

This is as long as new sources don't come up for them. All others won't be up for possible removal until around March 2010, unless newer sources come up for those too. --Diamond Dave (talk) 15:47, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Mark Sanford

I don't understand why it was reverted.--Jerzeykydd (talk) 20:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The truth is Sanford still has 3 sources that talk about in conjunction to a possible 2012 run. They are not all necessarily positive, however, they are discussing it. Why would he still be discussed in reference to 2012, if some people didn't still think he was running or if people think he will run. He still has 3 sources that talk about him in conjunction to a possible 2012 run and they are all less than 6 months old. Ensign I agreed with talking down because he is no longer being talk about in conjunction 2012. No one is even commenting on the fact that Ensign had a chance, the difference between Ensign and Sanford is that Sanford is still being discussed as having had a chance. That implies he still is being thought of a possible candidate to some. He should be taken down once all discussion about him and 2012 stops. Ensign, Jindal, Gingrich, and Ron Paul (until recently) speculation has ceased. Haley Barbour, Jeb Bush, and Mike Pence are heading down that path, because no one is talking about them in conjunction to a possible 2012 run at all. If this lack of discussion continues, they will be removed around the end of December. --Diamond Dave (talk) 20:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you get it. The article has to be positive. It can't just talk about 2012, it has to be speculating the possibility of he/she running in 2012. If 3 articles say someone will definitly not run, than why have it in the article?--Jerzeykydd (talk) 21:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

But, the primary haven't happen, so everyone is up for speculation. This is article is not about people who will be running, it's about who is being "talked about in conjunction to a possible run". We can't only put definitions until candidates actually announce their candidacy. Therefore, as long someone is talking about someone's possible run, they fit the criteria, until discussion, which happens after 6 months. Why are three people talking about them not running, unless they are hearing people asking a speculating about it. That means they are either trying to answer the questions of people speculating or they think that this individual is still considering running, even though shouldn't. Why talk about someone in conjunction to a 2012 run, if they aren't running? There has to be a reason people still are talking about Sanford running in 2012, even though it is negative, why are people still talking about him running 2012? Why do they keep talking about him, but stopped talking about Ensign. Why they still talking about Sanford and it seems like discussion is ceasing for Bush, Barbour, and Pence? --Diamond Dave (talk) 22:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that, unless a consensus of speculating pundits agrees Sanford is highly unlikely to run or no sources have speculated about him running in the last six months, he should stay listed. We can't just go by one source stating he won't run and completely disregard others that are still mentioning him as a possible candidate. Keep him listed for now. Timmeh 22:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The article states: "Candidates will be added to this list if they are the subject of speculation in no less than two prominent media sources that are less than six months old. This section was last updated October 25, 2009." And: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, meaning that we cannot post unverified speculation. If the source meets the younger than 6 months criteria I say keep Sanford listed. We can know only for sure when Sanford or his press secretary says: "Sanford will or will not run for president in 2012". Andrewlp1991 (talk) 05:22, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Per the comments of Diamond Dave, Timmeh, and Andrewlp1991, I support keeping Sanford listed as long as there at least two prominent media sources (dated within the past 6 months, of course) discussing the prospect (even it's viewed as a long shot) of him making a run in 2012.--JayJasper (talk) 16:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I partially see what Jerzeykydd is saying. If an article is published saying that it is believed So-And-So "will not run in 2012," then we should not be able to use that article as one of the three sources necessary to support So-And-So as a potential 2012 candidate. The article must say that So-And-So at least "might run" or "ought to run". However, as long as there are three articles within the last six months that do advocate the possibility or desirability of So-And-So's running for President in 2012, we ought to keep So-And-So listed on the page, even if common sense dictates that they will not run (Dick Cheney, Mark Sanford, et. al.), simply for consistency's sake. --Ai.kefu (talk) 20:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

But, also why would a candidate who is no longer potential be talked in a reputable source in regarding to 2012. If they keep talking about them, some people must be thinking he will run or wants to run. That's why I think we should only keep candidates they are being talked about in reputable sources in less than 6 months. If six months go by and they are not talking about them in conjunction 2012 anymore, then obviously speculation has ceased and they should be removed. I know it sounds silly, but would someone keep talking about someone they think will not run, eventually it would be old news unless some people believe in a possibility. That's Sanford, Cheney, etc. should remain and why likely very soon Bush, Pence, and Barbour will eventually be removed.--Diamond Dave (talk) 11:49, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Potential Edit War for Gary Johnson

I have had some concerns over how reputable some of the sources are for Gary Johnson, especially because the IP address that keeps adding them, almost sounds like he's endorsing Johnson more than updating the post. Some of the posts appear to be legitimate enough, but I am not sure. Recently, I removed 2 that were blatantly blogs. The IP address then removed Dick Cheney because he said "the sources were from Huffington Post and it's a blog". Would Huffington Post be considered a blog? I ask because I was under the impression, it was considered reputable and many of these candidates have sources from Huffington. Any thoughts on this? Is Huffington Post a blog? Are Johnson's sources credible?

I ask because I reverted what the IP address did, but I don't want to start an Edit War either. --Diamond Dave (talk) 17:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

The sources up for Gary Johnson presently seem to be reputable: 2 print newspapers and 1 major radio station. I would probably seem to concur that the Huffington Post is a blog and not a news publication. From the Huffington Post's wiki: "The Huffington Post is an American liberal news website and aggregated blog". I don't think the blog articles that appear on Huffington Post ought to be used as sources on this page, if we're going to be consistent. --Ai.kefu (talk) 18:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)