Talk:Germany

Sports in Germany

The Allianz Arena in Munich is not only used by FC Bayern München but also by TSV 1860 München Mbs z (talk) 14:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

ref 139

is in the archive now: http://www.gaycitynews.com/articles/2006/08/31/gay_city_news_archives/past%20issues/17334472.txt (http://www.gaycitynews.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=17334472&BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=568864&rfi=8 is not working) --WikiAnika (talk) 21:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Semiprotection review

This article was semiprotected 16 May 2007 by Kusma (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who cited "Anon vandalism" as the reason.

As it's been over two years I'd like to gather opinions on whether the semiprotection is still necessary. It might now be worth unprotecting to see if the level of vandalism is either very low or managable. It not then we'll have learned something and we can reprotect. I'm also contacting Kusma. --TS 00:44, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

The vast majority of FA country articles are protected. The high user traffic at these articles always involves high percentages of unregistered vandalism. The semi-protection has proofed to be a valuable tool. Lear 21 (talk) 12:25, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Whenever it was unprotected in the past it had to be re-protected again within days, and a lot of time was wasted checking for and reverting vandalism. Look at the logs and the edits following previous unprotects. I do not recommend unprotecting. --Boson (talk) 06:36, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the current rate of editing, the amount of change in the article in any recent week has been quite low, so if the article were kept unprotected for, say, two days as a test, the amount of harm likely to be done by vandals would be minimal and I am quite happy to go through all the edits for that period ensuring that no good edits are lost. Would that kind of test meet your concerns about the time wasted? Of course if extensive vandalism took place I'd cut the experiment short because there would be no point continuing. --TS 11:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

That would be OK by me, if you stay around for a couple of weeks. The amount of vandalism in a given period varies, probably depending on something like the school holidays in the USA and how fast word spreads.--Boson (talk) 18:29, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The last thing I want to see is this or any other article messed up by vandals or an excessive burden placed on other editors by IP vandalism. I watch hundreds or articles routinely and (since I started commenting here) this is one of them. If there are no serious objections I'll probably ask for the article to be unprotected soon and I'll watch it like a hawk. --TS 22:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

After 24 hours following the removal of semiprotection 4 vandalism acts from 4 different IP´s have been conducted. It is enough proof that this article provokes constantly vandalists to pursue their methods. Because the Germany article is one of the most read articles in Wikipedia (Top 200) I request semiprotection to be reinstalled as soon as possible. Lear 21 (talk) 12:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Four incidents of vandalism in one day doesn't amount to extensive vandalism in my opinion--certainly not enough to merit semiprotection on an article as closely watched as this. --TS 12:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

No IP vandalism on 10th, just one up to noon GMT on 11th. So it seems to vary from day to day and is easy to revert when it happens. This is preferable to semiprotecting because it better fulfils Wikipedia's principle that anybody should be able to edit. --TS 12:12, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Status as at 2009-09-11 15:17:

Since semi-protection removed:

• 18 edits in total, of which:
• 1 bot edit (Interwiki)
• 0 productive edits (not reverts and not reverted) by people

--Boson (talk) 17:44, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy doesn't require that every edit made be productive, only that it should be made in good faith. This edit made by 155.101.178.88 yesterday is an example. I reverted it because the editor had confused the verb uses of "breakfast" and "lunch" with the noun forms--perhaps someone whose first language is not English. --TS 18:45, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

And here is a more representative sample of the edits:

• " got there [sic] ass kicked in the war"
• " [The Judiciary of Germany] is the independent arse crack . . . for killing your mum "
• "[ most states] suck their own balls".
• replaced paragraph by " tesdfgsffffffffffffffffggggggggggggggggggggg"
• added " I FRICKING LOVE HAIRY BUSHY SWEATY MOIST PUSSY"
• added " HEIL HITLER"
• Replaced whole article by "Germany is a dirty nazi jew hole and should be nuked"
• added "the poster master has struck again"

--Boson (talk) 19:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The outcome is as follows:

• Semiprotection removed: 09:51, 9 September 2009
• Semiprotection restored: 20:40, 16 September 2009

Diff between start and finish: [1]

Changed to the article in just over a week:

• 1. "The country's news is provided in English by..." -> "The country's news is provided for English speakers by..."

This was an edit made by me in response by an edit by a non-vandal IP edit.

• 2. "Hinduism has some 90,000 adherents (0.1%) and Sikhism 75,000 (0.9%)." -> "Hinduism has some 90,000 adherents (0.1%) and Sikhism 75,000 (0.09%). "

A significant error was fixed by an IP editor.

Vandalism: there were dozens of vandalism edits, all reverted.

How does this compare to a normal week on this article?

Semiprotection, so no vandalism.

• First edit: 15:16, 31 August 2009
• Semiprotection lifted: 09:51, 9 September 2009

Diff between start and finish: [2]

Here there is a lot of textual change due to the extensive use of automated tools to reformat references.

The following text was added: "and Sikhism 75,000(0.9%)." (this was the incorrect calculation that was later fixed by an IP edit).

The dead URL of a reference to Gay City News was updated.

I don't think it's particularly conclusive. If you absolutely cannot stand the idea that people will vandalize an article on a Wiki, and you or someone else will have to click a button to remove it, then semiprotection is the way to go. But for most of us it's a bit more nuanced than that. Perhaps there's an acceptable level of vandalism that brings in benefits.

Well if there is such a level, I don't think we've demonstrated that here. Granted, both changes in the past week were the result of IP edits, but the period of the experiment was too brief to be conclusive. And perhaps, it has to be said, the incidence of vandalism--however reliably it is removed--does freak some latterday Wikipedians out in a way that it didnt in the early days. --TS 21:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Who's freaked out? I expect most people who have a lot of Germany-related articles on their watchlist are just a little fed up with spending too much time working on articles where something like 95 percent of all edits are made by people with no interest in producing an encyclopaedia (and people repairing the damage). Now that some of the kids are apparently back to school, I for one am glad that the article is semi-protected again. --Boson (talk) 23:00, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think it's significant that the article improved twice during the week, on both occasions due to IP edits. There is also a good argument, which you have expressed well, against allowing anybody to edit. But this is a wiki. The reason we have an article now is because anybody can edit. --TS 23:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to suggest that people who find the presence of articles on their watchlists to be a burden should feel free to adjust their watchlists. Wikipedia is not obliged to adjust its activities so as to avoid annoying people who have watchlists. I write as one who is watching many hundreds of articles and intervenes several times a day. --TS 03:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

The Germany article is one of the few FA rated articles at Wikipedia. It is mature, accurate and extensive. Believing that some random IP editor is able to add significant content is possible but highly unlikely. On the other side the article is much more likely to draw vandalism from unregistered IP´s because of its prominent issue and its high user/reader traffic. This preconditions are to my eyes so obvious, that is was naive to remove the semiprotection in the first place. Lear 21 (talk) 21:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

publicized is spelled wrong

In the Holy Roman Empire Section. 76.197.3.115 (talk) 04:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a valid and quite common spelling in British English. It should only be corrected if the bulk of the article is in US English. --TS 04:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

British, "non-Oxford" spelling (-ise, -isation) seems to be used consistently throughout the article.--Boson (talk) 05:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Proper rank of exporters in dispute

Almost all of German exports are to other EU nations which use the Euro, are a short distance away, face no import/export duty and as such most of its "exports" are really more like domestic internal trade. The existence of the EU as a new kind of entity makes internal EU trade a bit hard to define as "exports" in the traditional sense because many of the economic realities of traditional exports (lack of different currencies especially) are no longer apparent in the EU.

I propose adding in addition to the current ranking, an alternative ranking of Germany's exports be added showing it's exports to non-EU states, which is the only valid comparison to the exports of other nations (China/USA/India) which are not in the EU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.77.79 (talk) 22:59, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a source comparing countries on that basis? --Boson (talk) 06:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The WTO has a ranking excluding intra-EU trade, which, naturally, treats the EU as a single economy and shows the EU as the largest exporter, ahead of China and the USA. --Boson (talk) 06:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

If ths article was about the EU, that ranking might be relevant. According to the German government, the majority of German "exports" are to other European states:

"About three quarters of exports of goods “made in Germany” were shipped to European countries." http://www.destatis.de/jetspeed/portal/cms/Sites/destatis/Internet/EN/Navigation/Statistics/Aussenhandel/Handelspartner/Handelspartner.psml Why don't we include at least that quote/information? ...which I think is relevant since no trade rules/duty/currency exchange need take place as is the case with trade between non-EU member states which is much more similar to domestic trade in a geographically large country than it is to ocean-going trade, duty-due trade and different-currency trade involed in trade elsewhere... Germman trade with Austria is much simpler than even China/Brazilian/Australian/American domestic trade and it's relevant to see how much German trade (relatively little) is to outside the EU.

Furthermore, there is another statistical exaggeration of German "trade"; namely exports and imports through European nations with sea ports (e.g. Hamburg) are "recorded at the frontier country where the goods are placed under the customs procedures." http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_SDDS/EN/ext_base.htm ...meaning that...

"a car from Japan which pays import duty on arrival in Germany can be shipped to Belgium or Poland and sold there in the same way as a German car. No further duty is charged"

http://europa.eu/pol/comm/overview_en.htm ...even though this is rather deceptively recorded as GERMAN trade.

all this is relevant because Germany, while happy to promote whatever possible trade they can as German "exports", is in fact by world standards NOT exporting as much as they claim in the traditional sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.77.79 (talk) 01:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the cited source or similar should be used to update and expand the information on Germany's trading partners. I would suggest putting the details in the sub-article Economy of Germany and summarizing them to the extent of stating the proportion of exports to EU countries in the appropriate section. --Boson (talk) 05:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I see you agree which is nice, I'd like to research this issue a little more when I have the time. I'm not clear at the moment whether, say, a car built in France but exported through Hamburg is counted as a German export and likewise whether all imports through Haburg count as German imports whether or not their final destination is somewhere else in the EU. I'll put something together when I have the time... thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.77.79 (talk) 03:59, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Cuisine

The cheese and cold meat buffet shown under "cusine" is not very typical for private festivities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.143.12.110 (talk) 19:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Cuisine again

Same opinion here. I would even say, that there is no true typical cusine for private festivities in germany. If you really want to chose something special for _private_ parties, chose potato salad with sausages. And I totally miss the typical bavarian food, knuckle of prok, fried potatoes and "Currywurst" - sausage with curry sauce. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.180.18.131 (talk) 07:22, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

GDP typographical error

Country data indicates that nominal GDP is over 3000 trillion. A comma was used instead or a period.

Then replace said comma with a fullstop? --Île_flottante~Floating island ^Talk 18:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

German Defense Secretary

The name of the current defence secretary neds to be actualized. It's not Franz Joseph Jung anymore but von Guttenberg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.148.69.102 (talk) 01:51, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

And check te numbers nof how many german soldiers are located abroad actually. The article talks about about 2006, and we are three years ahead now.

This needs to be corrected, especially because we are on Wiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.148.69.102 (talk) 01:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

 Done--Boson (talk) 14:22, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

There´s a citation of a statement of the actual defence secretary, that is wrong. The actual break is: "In 2009, Defense Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg stated that conditions in Afghanistan were "like a war",(...)."

Actually he said, that he can understand if there are soldiers, who experience the condistions in Afgahnistan as a war. The difference is, that he quotes the soldiers in order to avoid an own statement. So the english translation of his speech, that is quoted in the newspaper that is linked at the wiki-article (No. 59, http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/1104/1224258027039.html) nearly got it right. So if this statement is that important that it has to be quoted, consider a revision. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.65.125.227 (talk) 09:56, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Not exactly. He did say he understood soldiers who said there is a war in Afghanistan [my emhasis].

He also said what was quoted in translation in the Irish Times (the footnote provides the exact quote). I have added an additional reference with the exact quotation in German to show that the translation in the Irish Times is correct. Here is an excerpt from the verbatim report of the interview, showing both statements:

zu Guttenberg: Ich will ganz offen sein. In Teilen Afghanistans gibt es fraglos kriegsähnliche Zustände. Zwar ist das Völkerrecht eindeutig und sagt: Nein, ein Krieg kann nur zwischen Staaten stattfinden. Aber glauben Sie, auch nur ein Soldat hat Verständnis für notwendige juristische, akademische oder semantische Feinsinnigkeiten? Und: Manche herkömmliche Wortwahl passt für die Bedrohung von heute nicht mehr wirklich. Ich selbst verstehe jeden Soldaten, der sagt: In Afghanistan ist Krieg . . .[my emphasis].

--Boson (talk) 17:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Hitler picture

Having a random portrait of Hitler in the history section which is meant to outline the history of Germany as a whole in a few sections, when there are no other portrait photos except for Martin Luther, is POV and UNDUE. Sections on other eras use maps to explain the territorial situation, the main purpose of this summary of the history of Germany as a nation-state. A random portrait photo is less informative than a map explaining German territorial conquests, which affected millions of people. Urban XII (talk) 13:41, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The section displays the 2 significant images in order to portray a 12 year era. Dictatorship and war were at its core. The recently introduced map of axis powers and their territory spread have have neither proofed sustainable historic impact, nor does it examplify the era in terms inner german developments. Lear 21 (talk) 14:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

How is this particular portrait photo (which could have been taken anywhere, anytime) one of the "the 2 most significant images"? Your claim that the territorial situation did not have an "historical impact" is hilarious. It had a much larger historical impact than a random portrait of a politician. Actually, other sections, like "Division and reunification", have one map and one picture as well. The fact remains that only including portraits of Luther and Hitler in this particular summary of German history, the first section in the main Germany article, is POV, UNDUE and even possibly racist, as it deliberately attempts to associate German history primarily with Hitler (who only ruled for 12 years out the 2000 years of history covered by the section). There are a number of other historical figures that are equally important, but generally, a brief summary of Germany as a nation-state should avoid the use of portrait photos, which are seldomly informative in this context. The section simply is too short for portrait photos. Urban XII (talk) 14:19, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Some of the people who don't have a portrait, even if they had a more lasting influence:

• Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor
• Henry the Lion
• Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor
• Frederick II of Prussia
• Wilhelm II, German Emperor
• Otto von Bismarck (founded the German nation-state)
• Konrad Adenauer (rebuilt Germany)
• Helmut Kohl (reunited Germany)

Urban XII (talk) 14:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed that Russia does not have a portrait of Joseph Stalin, even though Stalin had a much more lasting influence, ruling the country for a much longer period of time and still being considered a hero by many Russians. And Serbia does not start with a portrait of Slobodan Milosevic. Cambodia does not have a portrait of Pol Pot. And so on and so forth. Urban XII (talk) 14:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The section Third Reich exist only because of an individually focused dictatorship (Führerkult). The period spans the beginning and the end (because of death) of a single persons reign, namely Adolf Hitler. A varying set of implications on Germany even after the period (until 1990) have been crucially caused by this dictatorship, lead by Hitler. The recently introduced map ofs conquests led by the regime was one among many implications but have no longlasting impact on Germany as a state and can be considered of minor value. In fact, the conquests (the war) were the cause of the opposite, a divided country and a loss of territories. After all Hitler is arguably the most influential figure of the 20th century, thats why an image in this section is justified. BTW, Bismarck IS visually represented in the section German Empire. Lear 21 (talk) 01:12, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the map is an improvement; given the choice between the two, I would definitely choose the Hitler picture.

I think we want something that is emblematic of the Third Reich, not a map that has to be viewed in full resolution to mean anything.

Perhaps we should widen the discussion and ask: what picture do we really want to illustrate the Third Reich? Hitler is obviously on the short list, in my book.--Boson (talk) 06:38, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

This is not an article about the Third Reich. This is a section outlining the history of Germany as a nation-state, of which the Third Reich is a very short period. Having a portrait only of Hitler, except Luther, in the history section in the main Germany article is clearly racist, POV and UNDUE, and a deliberate attempt to associate the main Germany article primarily with Hitler. It's also against standard applied to other articles and sections. A section on a 12-year period out of 2000 ought to be very short, and it already has a picture. Other sections have a picture and a map, hence, a picture and a map is a good solution. A portrait carries no real information value. Urban XII (talk) 15:40, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

The question is not "what picture do we really want to illustrate the Third Reich?". The question is: Which pictures are appropriate in the history overview section covering German history in the past 2000 years at the top of the main Germany article? Hitler is not on my short list (especially considering the fact that there are no other portraits except Luther, who founded Protestantism and has had a lasting religious, cultural and political influence over 500 years in half of the continent). Besides, there are a number of other pictures that could illustrate the Third Reich much better than a random portrait of one person. Urban XII (talk) 15:46, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I came across this discussion randomly, by checking out an edit in "Recent changes" for vandalism. After reading the discussion and looking at the article, I would vote for a picture of Hitler - Hitler was clearly the central figure of the Nazi years, and he is emblematic of this period in which Germany was affecting the world in many ways. Unless you click on the map, the image is too small to convey any information; Hitler's image is iconic of the era and has immediate impact. Brianyoumans (talk) 15:55, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

We don't have votes at Wikipedia. You simply keep ignoring the fact that there are no other portraits except Luther. It's irrelevant whether he was "central" during the Nazi years. Helmut Kohl was central during the Cold War and the German Reunification, yet, he has no portrait in the history section. Urban XII (talk) 15:58, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

It is quite common on talk pages to take polls to see what to do with an article. Obviously, editors are not bound by the results, but if a large majority of editors - especially those closely involved with the article - favor one option, it is certainly a good idea for the minority party to reconsider. No one likes an edit war. If those closely involved can't come to a decision, you can ask for outside help. As a reasonably experienced editor, I was just giving you my opinion, for what it is worth. Brianyoumans (talk) 16:07, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

It is misleading to say that "there are no other portraits except Luther". There are pictures of Luther, Bismarck, Horst Köhler, Angela Merkel, Max Planck, Albert Einstein, Beethoven, Kant, Michael Schumacher, and Claudia Schiffer. Speaking historically, I think Hitler is perhaps just a teeny weeny bit more important than Claudia Schiffer. --Boson (talk) 19:30, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

You certainly don't need to click on the map to get the picture. An alternative solution is to remove the second image altogether and just keep the other one. After all, one picture is enough for such a short period in this section. Urban XII (talk) 16:01, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Propose one, perhaps another on ethan the territories occupied during WWII.

As to the 12 years out of 2000. You shold not forget that years weigh differntly as concerns historical impact. History is always seen from today. So, twelve years in the 20th century are more important for us than in the 7th century. Moreover, is the weight not just a function of the time passed since. The 12 Nazi years are more important to write about than the years between 1952 and 1964. I am sorry for this reasoning, which is probably all too obvious, but I just do not like to see fabricated arguments like 12 years out of 2000 must result in a shorter section.

As to the question of having Hitler on display, I think we woud have talk page sections started over and over again if excluded him, with the criticism that we are trying to hide something. Unfortunately, he just is the face that comes to peoples mind when they think about Germany, not just Nazi Germany. Tomeasy _{T C} 16:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. So can we put a picture of Stalin on the Russia article, or Mao Zedong on the China article? After all, their faces come to mind when I think of Russia and China. And not just the Soviet Union and Communist China. Mkemper331 (talk) 20:06, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, we are talking about the Third Reich section of the article on Germany here, so this is somewhat off topic. I suppose the equivalent section would be Soviet Russia in the article on Russia, and I am quite happy to have a picture of Lenin there. Since Hitler was Reichskanzler and Führer of Germany and Stalin was Premier of the Soviet Union, it might be more appropriate to depict Hitler in the article on Germany and Stalin in the article on the Soviet Union (in the appropriate historical sections, of course). What would be your suggested picture for the Third Reich section? --Boson (talk) 20:26, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd recommend, as suggested before, a map, possibly showing the greatest extent of German control in Europe, or an animated one showing its growth and then its destruction. An animated timeline, of sorts. Mkemper331 (talk) 06:02, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

By Urban's arguments, this map refers to one year, or arguably six years. Hitler stands for the national-socialist period in a whole.

We won't get this article stable by showing almost a dozen Germans while leaving out the most famous/notorious one. Tomeasy _{T C} 07:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

This argument is utter nonsense. The significance of which parts of Europe which were under German control during WWII cannot be underestimated and are of much greater importance than a random portrait of a single person. The main issue, however, is the question: Which portraits should be used in the history section of the main Germany article. Using only Hitler and Luther is racist and clearly motivated by Germanophobia. I will continue to oppose Germanophobia in this article. The fact that other sections have pictures of Claudia Schiffer (which doesnt quite make sense to me anyway) is irrelevant, this is about the history section. Urban XII (talk) 07:53, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

What on earth is Germanophobic about having a picture of Hitler in the section on the Third Reich? --Boson (talk) 17:09, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

If I may just say; as a German Citizen. I am not at all offended by the use of an image of Hitler on wikipedia. If anything, I would be digusted if this disgraceful period of time were censored...

Also, I don't think an image of the following two is at all needed, considering the fact that if you asked one random person on the street, "Do you know who Hitler was?", 999/1000 would know at least the out line of his crimes. Whereas the following two; you may find Germans who don't know who them...

• Henry the Lion
• Konrad Adenauer (rebuilt Germany)

--Île flottɑnte~Floɑting islɑnd ^Talk 17:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Hitler picture consensus

The Third Reich / Nazi Germany section had a picture of Hitler when the article achieved Featured-Article status. It has had a picture of Hitler since 2006. The editor who removed it recently and has been resisting all attempts to replace it is the one who needs to establish a new consensus, not the people who are restoring it. The picture should be replaced until a new consensus is reached. --Boson (talk) 18:23, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Adolf Hitler is arguably the defining "politician" of a German state in the 20th century. No matter what "good" or "bad" influences this individual exerted it was relevant to European and world history. The image of Hitler has to be a part of a decent and comprehensive history of Germany. Lear 21 (talk) 21:25, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

German cities

Wouldn´t it be interesting to have a table of the largest German cities ? Several other country articles have introduced such a table. Friedrichshainer (talk) 17:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, many cities are already represented in several sections, so the need of an extra table seems not very urgent. The German Lander table also lists all capitals. all the best Lear 21 (talk) 01:16, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I still believe, a new table could be a usefull thing. Friedrichshainer (talk) 12:52, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Society

beside the mentioned people, the foreign ministry "guido westerwelle" ist another openly gay person 87.78.192.77 (talk) 20:19, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

If you can find a reliable source (which should not be hard), feel free to mention him in the sentence (maybe as "the leader of the Liberal Democratic Party (FDP) and current foreign minister"). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:36, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

The IP cannot edit this semi-protected article.

Also, I am not sure what to do about this homosexual information. Shall we really keep on adding every VIP that is openly gay?

We started by Wowereit and then, of course, we had to include Beust as well, because major of Berlin and Hamburg are comparable positions. Now, we have Westerwelle, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, arguably more important than the other positions. I agree, that we cannot mention the former two while omitting the latter. My proposition would be to make a generic statement without any names.

Another argument against listing people is that we do not list the politicians that are openly heterosexual. I know that is much more common, but still. Tomeasy _{T C} 10:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't aware about the semi. What is somewhat interesting is that Wowereit, Westerwelle, and Beust represent the three most "traditional" (for lack of a better word) political parties - social, liberal, and Christian democrats, respectively, and hence illustrate how much acceptance homosexuality has gained in mainstream society. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

In the Green Party, you have Volker Beck. Nobody of the Left comes to my mind. If we find someone, we might say something along the line homosexuality is widely accepted in the German society; in every major political party, there are key figures who are open about their homosexuality. It still sounds rough (and of course the CSU will be missing), but at least we get lost of the name dropping. Tomeasy _{T C} 10:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Sabine Jünger is openly homosexual, but I have to admit that I did not know here, which compromises key figures.

And yes, the term traditional political parties referring to CDU, SPD, and FDP is contentious and should be avoided. Also, we should not forget about the CSU, and I am afraid it would be difficult to find someone there. Perhaps parts of the society are not as tolerant as we are trying to picture here. Tomeasy _{T C} 11:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Citation for Biodiversity

Someone should replace the first citation in the Biodiversity section. Thank you. –Radu Gherasimdiscussion 20:52, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, I found another ur on the same website that lists the ecoregions. However, I was forced to change the content as well. It's weird that I cannot find the information apparently hosted by the WWF previously. Anyway, now it is sound again. Tomeasy _{T C} 07:13, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

World War II

No Section for germany in world war 2? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.129.127 (talk) 05:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

That would be the section Third Reich (1933–1945). If it were split into two sub-sections, the first would only be one short paragraph.

--Boson (talk) 10:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

DM in infobox

The infobox should not include old currencies. As far as I know, the mark is not legal tender in any Germanan territory. I do not see the relevance of WP:MOSNUM, so I think the DM should be removed. --Boson (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

The DM

I think that the DM should be at least a subheading, as it was OUR Currency until 2001, All the other European Countries have there old currencies, The DM Was the strongest Currency in Europe Until the Euro Came in, can someone please put the DM In the Subheading ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Craigzomack (talk • contribs) 23:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)