Talk:Rhinoplasty

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surgeryimages site

I have a site containing images from a rhinoplasty procedure ,but since It's my site someone else must approve the link first before adding it to the external links

http://surgery-images.com/plastic/rhinoplasty.html Nfostiras 08:34, 30 October 2006 (UTC)nfostiras[reply]

Clean Up

This page needs better references. Recurring dreams 01:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. For starters, can someone please provide the technical name of the type of surgeon that performs rhinoplasties? M. Frederick 01:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He or she is known as a plastic surgeon. Usually, a board-certified plastic surgeon is required. And then, rhinoplasty, being one of the most difficult plastic surgeries, also has a procedure known as Revision Rhinoplasty. That surgeon specializes in repairing botched cases, which are doubly hard and complicated because they were not done correctly the first time.Charles.Downey 16:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC) there are several specialists who operate on the nose. otolaryngologists(ent surgeons), plastic surgeons maxilofacial surgeons and recently dermatologists. accurate statistics are difficult to come by as the number of cosmetic rhinoplasties are not monitored. however the following may help-in ontario canada, 573 reconstructive rhinoplasties were done last year. 80% were by otolaryngologists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oakleysmith (talk • contribs) 02:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Political correctness

I am not American, and am quite convinced that rhinoplasties are performed on non-American citizens. Why are blacks and asians referred to as "African-Americans" and "Asian-Americans"? Besides that, do non-whites in your country really want to be called by those cumbersome names...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.209.99.7 (talk) 21:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, political correctness is forcing us to behave obtusely. I have no qualms with using "Black" or "Asian" (East Asian, if the orient is to be implied) in this context (I am black myself, Canadian, so I also find the term "Afro-American" even more restrictive then the racial restrictions it sought to destroy when its use was popularized). Then again, to be fair, the statement does not imply that only African/Asian-Americans are the ethnic recipients of this surgery, only that, of those groups, many choose to do it, and it would not be terribly far off to assume that of any ethnic Black/Asian sub-population, America does have the most members. 74.12.75.157 03:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed it to "patients of African descent". Charles 03:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cost, Expense, Risks, Side Effects?

There is no mention of any of these in the article. I'd think it informative to include a section on the potential risks and side effects of rhinoplasty (i.e. nose collapse, infections, etc). Naturually, the cost can vary from region and country, but I think a general/average range of expense for this surgery would be nice (a break down by region even better).74.12.75.157 03:29, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i will add side effects/complicationsOakleysmith (talk) 02:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Non surgical nose job

Under the rhinoplasty section "non surgical nose job" is a term coined and trademarked by a Dr. Alexander rivkin he pretty much invented the procedure that dates back to 2003. The proof for the invention of the phrase and the actual word can be found under (TM-Source: Serial Number 77/097,402) I think a persons name should be mentioned in the article to atleast give partial credit to person who came up with the procedure. Give credit where credit is due. --Happyfeetprod (talk) 21:08, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(from my talk page) : The problem here is that Dr. Rivkin only trademarked the term, "Non-Surgical Nose Job™" and using this term in the Rhinoplasty article isn't appropriate, given the subject is non-surgical rhinoplasty in the generic sense. What you added, as well as the article you have previously created is simply blatantly promotional; in other words, an advert. Proof of trademarking a term doesn't establish notability nor does it make it encyclopedic - Alison ^❤ 21:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i understand what you're saying, in terms of the difference between the terms non surgical rhinoplasty and non surgical nose job, and perhaps this is not quite what i wanted to emphasize. my point is that, before Rivkin came along, there was no such concept of non surgical rhinoplasty, or non surgical nose job. he is the first one, if you look at the articles and videos on the net, to offer this procedure, under any name. so the issue here is what is advertising Vs what is legitimate credit for the invention of a technique. in an article about relativity, you have to mention Einstein - you would agree that this is not advertising or promotion. it is simply a fact that Einstein developed the ideas of relativity. similarly, it is simply a fact that rivkin was the first to come up with the concept of changing the shape of someone's nose via injections. subsequently, several other doctors adopted the technique and tried to attach their names to it.

In fact, the 2 sources that you let stay on, 2 completely different articles that mentions the same doctor, has quotes regarding non surgical rhinoplasty that Dr. Rivkin had made 2 years prior. Anyway, I think that by putting in 2 articles with references to the same New York doctor is more of an obvious advert than it would be to acknowledge the guy who actually invented the procedure. also, how is a today show clip an obvious advert whereas a USA today article is a legitimate reference? Atleast a comprise should be made that and it would make sense to acknowledge Rivkin's development of the procedure, to say that multiple doctors are doing it now, and to include references like the today show clip. --Happyfeetprod (talk) 08:03, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'd really like to see some reliable sources such as PUBMED or some peer-reviewed publications, really, that Dr. Rivkin is a pioneer in this field. The reason I ask is that I'm aware that people have been using dermal fillers for quite some time to achieve this effect. In fact, Europe, they've been successfully using Aquamid and Hyaluronic acid in this way. If, as you say, he's a noted pioneer, then he definitely should get a mention. The Today Show clip would be problematic due to copyright and our policy regarding external links. - Alison ^❤ 08:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ok, i see what you mean, i guess, but in the external link policy it specifically states that you tube video is an acceptable link. also, is there a preference for written sources over video on wikipedia? you're saying that a today show segment is promotional, whereas a transcribed abc news segment is an acceptable reference? --Happyfeetprod (talk) 07:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i would suggest this section be removed entirely. it could better be placed in an area on cosmetic fillers. it mentions the only living doctor. who probably isnt a surgeon. i get the feeling its advertising. Oakleysmith (talk) 20:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

sorry, i was wrong. he is an otolaryngologist which is a surgical specialty.Oakleysmith (talk) 20:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic Rhinoplasty

Regarding the text "Patients of African descent commonly seek narrowing of wide nostrils." This seems anecdotal at best. There certainly is a tortured history in the US between Caucasian and African American beauty. And perhaps a more nuanced approach to the text is in order. There was an interesting article from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons in 2003 which described rhinoplasty surgery's role for African Americans as a method of "retain[ing] their unique ethnic characteristics while improving their overall look." Then again the author of a Salon article on the topic sniffed "American hucksterism" in the ASPS report, saying that it looked like "the ultimate in having it both ways, the plastic-surgery equivalent of a Ginsu knife."

I'm not sure if I'm even using the Talk section correctly. I know that I have issue with this text and I suppose I'm looking for feedback as I don't have a concise sentence to pop in the page and have done with it. JakeMul (talk) 13:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish sweet 16 Nosejobs

I myself am Jewish and I know for a fact that alot of young girls in the Jewish community get nosejobs for their sweet sixteenths.. someone should put something about that in this article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.134.73.71 (talk) 01:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's an interesting fact, but we'd need a reliable source of information to back it up before we could put it in the article. It's also not very encyclopaedic, and it hasn't got very much to do with nose jobs as such; perhaps it would be more appropriate on one of the Judaism-related articles? Any thoughts from my fellow editors? CarrotMan (talk) 17:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What's up with the "In The Operating Room" section?

Is this an advertisement for FacialSurgery.com or what? It should at least be remotely presentable. Sheesh ... It ruins the whole page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paravis (talk • contribs) 00:31, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The information on surgical techniques is really wanting. First of all, the incision on the outside of the nose was not popularized until recently and is not used in many cases. The approach in which all incisions are inside the nose is called an "endonasal" or "closed" approach. The incisions in the endonasal approach are numerous and can include: 1)a marginal incision, made just above the rim of the nostil, along the caudal margin of the lower lateral cartilage. It provides access to the caudal (lower) edge of the lower lateral cartilage only. 2)a transcartilagenous (cartilage-splitting) incision, which transects the lateral crus of the lower lateral cartilage. This incision is most often used to trim the cephalic margin of the lateral crus in situ in a non-delivery approach (cephalic trim is commonly used to correct bulbosity and excess width of the tip), but can be used to facilitate a delivery approach 3)an intercartilagenous incision is made along the cephalic margin of the lower lateral cartilage, at the point where it attaches to the upper lateral cartilage of the dorsum. This incision is used to gain access to the dorsum to allow correction of a hump. The cephalic margins of the lateral crura can also be trimmed through this incision if the mucosal skin is dissected away from the lateral crus until the point where it will be transected and excised. This incision is also commonly used to facilitate a delivery approach. 4)a transfixion incision is an incision that cuts the connection between the caudal edge of the septum and the medial crura. Hemitransfixion incisions begin at the anterior septal angle and extend to the collumelar junction. They can be used to gain access to the caudal septum so it can be straightened, trimmed, or extended with a graft. Complete transfixion incisions begin at the anterior septal angle and extend all the way down to the medial crural footplates. This allows greater access to the caudal septum and to the nasal spine, but disrupts the attachment of the footplates to the caudal septum. As the footplates of the medial crura are often attached about two millimeters anterior to the nasal spine, this incision will cause the tip to deproject about 2mm and rotate downward slightly. This can be used as an advantage to decrease projection, but can also lead to underprojection and drooping of the tip if the medial crural footplates are not sutured to the caudal septum in their original position once the work on the caudal septum or nasal spine is complete.

A non-delivery approach involves modification of the lower lateral cartilages in situ (in their normal position). A delivery approach involves making a marginal incision and either a transcartilagenous or intercartilagenous incision, freeing the lower lateral cartilages from the overlying skin, and then "delivering" or pulling the lower lateral cartilages out of their normal position (ex situ) and into to nostril so they can be seen by the surgeon. This allows for more complex modifications to be made including suturing techniques such as the one already pictured on this page (a transdomal suture, by the way) or various forms of vertical dome division

Vertical dome division is used to treat more complex tip deformities. There are numerous variations of vertical dome division used today. The original technique, known as the Goldman maneuver was first described by Goldman in the 1950's. Goldman's original technique was used to increase the projection and upward rotation of the tip of the nose. Vertical dome division involves dividing the lower lateral cartilages vertically at any point along the lateral, intermediate, or medial crura. If the lateral crura are divided and part of them are excised (or the redundant cartilage is overlaid onto itself and sutured, as is now gaining popularity) they are shortened, causing the tip to rotate upward and deproject slightly. If the medial crura are divided and shortened, the tip will deproject dramatically and derotate somewhat. If the intermediate crura are divided and shortened, the nose deprojects with minimal effect on rotation. Goldman's technique can be used to increase both projection and upward rotation. It involves dividing the lateral crura a few mm lateral to the dome (their junction with the medial crura) and then suturing the medial edges of the lateral crura together to lengthen the medial crura. This borrowing of the lateral crura to extend the medial crura can create a dramatic increase in both projection and rotation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryanapr289 (talk • contribs) 06:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, that's understood. But up until the "In the Operating Room" section, the article looks relatively organized and aesthetically pleasing. It would be really nice if the "In the Operating Room" section could follow suit. The content isn't *bad*, but the way it looks on the page is terrible. Many of the images could be taken out, and content could be combined to make actual paragraphs. Anyways, that's all. Paravis (talk) 21:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This entire article was terrible before I just changed it some moments ago. It still is not good or great, but at least now it can be called decent. The In the Operating Room section is now combined in the Surgical approach: Open vs. closed subsection of the larger Surgical procedures and types section, and I do not feel that it is an advertisement or ruins the whole article; it is very informative, detailing each step, and now blends in better. Flyer22 (talk) 11:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Noteworthy persons

Noteworthy persons, who are known to have had such a job are among others:

Possibly something for a section in this article.--VKing (talk) 17:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]