Talk:Vampire

Article merged: See old talk-page here

correction to twilight comment

under the section of vampires in modern fiction - literature, there's a comment on the end that says

"The vampires in the Twilight series(2005-2008) by Stephanie Meyer resist the sun, garlic, and crosses."

but this is incorrect: they avoid the sun because it causes their skin to sparkle, causing obvious suspicion into their condition, but it has no effect on their health. garlic and crosses have absolutely no effect on them. they find no need to eat, but are still able to.

Stephenie Meyer's name is also misspelled.

other than that, it's a great article that i came across recently when looking for books to entertain me after twilight, and i found it very helpful. Twifan66 (talk) 03:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

You are misreading the line. Saying that one "resists" something means that it has little or no effect. Also, you can change the name yourself. Just click the "Edit" tab at the top of the page or in any of the section headers. Doctorfluffy (wanna get fluffed?) 15:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I truncated the original insertion of twilight stuff. Still haven't read the book myself. Will look to changing it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:10, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I realize the meaning of "resist," and that your are correct in saying that it doesn't necessarily imply that they are affected by it. But to someone who has not read the books, pointing out that they resist the sun, garlic, and crosses hints that they have an aversion to them. But the distinguishing quality of the Twilight vampires (and I believe, the entire point of including them on this page) is their distinction from previous vampires in literature. The Cullen's (the coven of vampires that the saga revolves around) own a large cross, which resides in their home. The do not resist garlic anymore than they resist water or toothpaste. They simply don't need it. I understand that the point of this article is not to talk about Twilight, but at least you could remove these implications so someone could look elsewhere if they needed more information instead of making the wrong conclusions from this page.Twifan66 (talk) 00:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

What about "The vampires in the Twilight series(2005-2008) by Stephenie Meyer ignore the effects of garlic, and crosses, and are not harmed by the sun (although it does reveal their supernatural nature)." Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

awesome! thanks for listening to my rant!24.236.86.16 (talk) 20:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd say: — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 12:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

Etymology of the word Vampire is wrong and misleading.

Vampire or Dhampire derives directly from the the Albanian language. Proto-Albanian or Illyrian. Old geg, vam or dham, which means teeth, and pi, pire in Albanian which means to drink, drinks. The research of the etymology lacks proper linguistic research and the references are rather misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.83.124.212 (talk) 20:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Old gheg dialect is vam or new gheg dham, (modern Albanian dhemb, dhembe - which is more toske dialect oriented) which means teeth and also fang, and pi, pirë in Albanian which means to drink, drinks. Vampir or Dhampir, to drink with teeth. Vampire have long fangs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.83.124.212 (talk) 20:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

We need reliable sources. Just some claims made on a talk page don't help. Find actual experts who have been published who say that. Lots of people think they have etymologies for all sorts of words, but most of them are wrong. The idea that "vampire" comes from words meaning "teeth drinks" doesn't sound at all plausible, as long fangs used for drinking blood weren't a component in the vast majority of the legends. DreamGuy (talk) 15:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The Albanian word for Vampire is Dhampir (Dham = teeth and Pir = drink/suck) … In the Albanian language the verb pir/pin/pi means simultaneously to drink and to suck … (e.g. the albanians say: "mushkonja/shushunja me ka pir gjakun" = "the mosquito/leech sucked my blood"). Thus the name Dhampir means Teeth-sucker … sucking via teeth)). Dhampir is the original name of the later corrupted and slavicized "vampir". Dhampirs are evil nightly creatures with sharp and long teeth, very strong, quick, heavy and are mostly invisible to the eyes of the normal People. They fear the fire, the water and the daylight, but like the music. These are dead people which were angry. They get up from the grave and come at night, bite people and animals and drinks their blood. Dhampirs are very sadistic; they terrify, beat up, and rape women and/or kill people.

Only a Dhampirash (Dhampirash = the child of a vampire father and a human mother) is capable to see the Dhampires, and knows how to fight or kill them.

He must make a circle from some burnable material and blood on the ground; afterward he lures the vampire into the circle while positioning himself in the middle of the circle, playing the fife (recorder) or whistling. Then he puts fire on the circle, so that the terrified Dhampire from the fire cannot flee, forcing the Dhampire to fight him.

Dhampirash must kill and burn the Dhampire, or new Dhampires will rise from every glow of these fires of a circle. When he has him killed and completely burnt, he must take his ashes/cinders and throw them in a river. (I told shortly and only the most important one)

Old tales from the Albanian folklore (Kosovo).

Slavs, Romanians and Roma (Gypsies) cannot pronounce the Albanian letter DH (DH = TH English like in The,Then,They,This,That etc.) so they usually replace it by the more convenient letter V. And some of Slavic people replace it by letter L (e.g. the Bosnians).

When a Slav, Romanian or Roma (Gypsie) spells the Albanian word Dham for Teeth, he pronounces it as Vam (?), because he is incapable to say Dham (teeth). The Bosnians spells it as Lam.

When the Slavs came to Europe, they came into contact with the Albanian (Pelasgo-Illyrian) tales. Later they changed, corrupted and slavicized the name Dhampir into "Vampir" and "Lampir" (similar to other Albanian words), because they could not pronounce the original name Dhampir. Now, they try to claim these words for themselves, as well as others that were similarly amended from the Albanian vacabulary, but the original meaning of these words is lost, because they carry no connotation in Slavic or any other language, except for Albanian.

(Wikipedia: Serbian вампир/vampir, or, according to some sources, from Hungarian vámpír. The Serbian and Hungarian forms have parallels in virtually all Slavic languages. The Bosnian Lampir which was the name of the oldest recorded vampire Meho Lampir.: Bulgarian вампир (vampir)...)

I have translated this by online translating service from German to English, and I tried to make clearer. I hope it is clear enough, for those who want to understand. Thx --User:!i!i!i!i!i! 20:20, 4 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.73.235.63 (talk)

I have forgotten to say that the Albanian word for the female vampires is Dhampiresha/Dhampireshe ... (e.g., Luan (m) Luanesha/e (f) = lion (m) lioness (f), or Mbret (m) Mbretresha/e (f) = king (m) queen (f) etc. --User:!i!i!i!i!i! 01:30, 5 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.73.235.63 (talk)

There is no relation of Illyrians with Vampires, or the Greek mythical Pelagians(or Pelasgians with Illyrians) with vampires or any relation with Albanian folklore and Illyrian one and no established relation with language let alone specialized words. This is all we know of Illyrian mythology.Megistias (talk) 06:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

You seem to know it all Sir (aside from a good command of English, that is). Can you please explain how did you come to the conclusion that Illyrians and Pelasgians differ (besides the timeframe)? Who were Illyrians? What do you know about them and their folktales? --User:!i!i!i!i!i! 04:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Iron.

I have recently heard that vampires are allergic to iron. This makes no sense at all because there is iron in blood. I know they are mythical. And also where has the 'type of vampire' section gone? I had noticed that they had missed out pure blood's. If anyone can tell me that the iron thing is a load of bull, please do. :) Assyria hightower (talk) 12:16, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Erm, no that is faeries which are supposed to be allergic to cold iron. Note that this is all folkloric. I was always perplexed by the 'cold iron' thing, as if a little carbon (in steel) somehow neutralises iron's toxicity to critters....aaargh, I am talking like a gamer again (has a cold shower). In short, erm....fuggeddaboutit. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Off topic for this article, but "cold iron" just means plain old iron: hot forged, cold forged, not forged, whatever. The idea that it was a special kind of iron was some nonsense picked up by fiction writers unfamiliar with the original stories and expanded upon over the years. The tradition folklore demonstrating iron's use against fairies included examples of items of all types: horseshoes, nails, swords, etc. Steel would work just as well. DreamGuy (talk) 15:42, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed text on garlic study

I removed this text:

Based on a experimental study with leeches the traditional belief that garlic has prophylactic properties is probably wrong.

Obviously, since vampires are fictional, there can be no proof or disproof of the theory that garlic repels them. Besides, leeches are a poor substitute for vampires; this study needed a better experimental control. 9) -- Beland (talk) 04:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that was a major tangent that made no sense being in the article. DreamGuy (talk)

Lead restoration

As there have been two subsequent restorations to the lead section after I rephrased it on 10/30 with new cites, I'm restoring to that ealier date. Most of the lead changes were made by taking material from the main body to keep the lead more as a summary. However, since I did add a number of new general sources that weren't yet in the body, I feel that my modifying the lead first instead of adding material to the body was not the best procedure, especially with a FA. Some of the cites came from the Bram Stoker article and they seemed useful here, but probably not in the lead. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 07:56, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The Stoker reference is from Penguin books--hardly a scholarly publication; furthermore, it deals primarily with the modern vampire--a creature who has become separated from the vampire of myth and legend. Also three of the six references in the opening I restored are English: Bunson who is already cited 15 times, Dundes from University of Wisconsin Press book, and finally no less than an article from the Encyclopaedia Britannica. I would ask any editor that wants to remove these sources to realize that two of them are on the top rung of WP:RS and are hardly superseded by later books of questionable scholarly merit.--BruceGrubb (talk) 07:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I would recommend the following for future editors:

• (1871) Appletons' journal of literature, science and art‎ Page 188

• Atwater, Cheryl (2008) "Living in Death: The Evolution of Modern Vampirism" Anthropology of Consciousness Volume 11 Issue 1-2, Pages 70 - 77

• Giblin, James L. (2001) "Review: Vampires and History" African Studies Review, Vol. 44, No. 1 (Apr., 2001), pp. 83-87

• Oinas, FJ (1978) - "Heretics as Vampires and Demons in Russia" The Slavic and East European Journal Vol 22 No 4 443-441

On a slightly iffier stance:

• Konstantinos (2002) Vampires: The Occult Truth Llewellyn Publications (to separate what is movie and literature based from the actual myths and legends.)

• Maberry, Jonathan (2006) Vampire Universe Citadel

• Russo, Arlene (2008) Vampire Nation Llewellyn Publications

• Wright, Dudley (2006) The book of vampires Dover Publications

While not all by scholars these do help in sorting the actual vampire of myth and legend from what movies and literature have created.--BruceGrubb (talk) 08:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Folk Beliefs Needs reference

The following section need references. In particular I don't think there is credible proof of any notion of Vampirism in the culture of the ancient Hebrews. If there is no reference for this it should be taken out.

"The notion of vampirism has existed for millennia; cultures such as the Mesopotamians, Hebrews, Ancient Greeks, and Romans had tales of demons and spirits which are considered precursors to modern vampires." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.97.100 (talk) 03:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Spirits such as Lilith and others are mentioned, and referenced, through the text. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Jewish magic and superstition: a study in folk religion By Joshua Trachtenberg, Moshe Idel talks about Vampires with regard to the Hebrew community as does Wilson, Katharina M. (1985) "The History of the Word "Vampire"" Journal of the History of Ideas, Vol. 46, No. 4 (Oct. - Dec., 1985), pp. 577-583.--BruceGrubb (talk) 04:42, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Update URL for Vampire article

Can an established editor please update the following URL?

Re: Reference [120]

"Despite being dismissed by experts, the link gained media attention[119] and entered popular modern folklore.[120]"

Please note GeoCities is closed, kindly change the above URL to http://www.bydewey.com/drkporphyria.html

Many thanks.

bydewey@yahoo.com

Author/Webmaster A Research Guide for Students www.bydewey.com

Dr. Kujtan's Medical Matters www.bydewey.com/drk2009.html

Bydewey (talk) 06:17, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Creation of vampires section

The section of the article is supposed to be about folfloric creation of vampires, instead it seems to be a section detailing methods of preventing creation of vampires. Many of the things description section should be in the identifying vampires section. Sephiroth storm (talk) 04:04, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Mythology/Folklore section

That section so happens to be the most important one, and from what I gather mythology of a vampire like creature comes from almost every civilization. I think their should be a seperate article that goes over every culture not just a limited few as to keep the page within the limits of page size. This section needs to be much much bigger, cause at the moment its misleading people into thinking that vampires myths have been so few, combined with sections that speak about how vampires have been 'supposedly' debunked by a simple 'Premature burial' and 'rabies' it makes a very poor article. If any of you really consider vampire mythology a serous subject then take my advice. Once you see the information of all the countries that have folklore, and how far they date back... the results may come of a shock. 124.169.40.173 (talk) 09:46, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Many of the myths from other cultures do indeed have their own articles, like jiangshi. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:55, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you could add links to all other articles pertaining the vampire myths through this one... considering this is the main one. Perhaps adding a "See Also" with links at the bottom. The Unbeholden (talk) 16:31, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Various ones are bluelinked through the article. I find see also sections of little use - either a term is already discussed and linked in the main body of the article, or the link is so tenuous or general that it is unclear why one takes precedence over any number of other possible links listed. The article is also very big so I try to avoid repetition if possible. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:28, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Understandable. though I did find one link that hasn't been bluelinked. I added it, as it appears to be quite a important link. Detailing all the vampires in folklore from around the world. I've even expanded it with a few I've read about. The Unbeholden (talk) 08:07, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Films and Television

I can't believe that you mentioned Dan Curtis' Kolchak series and missed referring to his earlier Dark Shadows horror-opera which brought Barnabas Collins as the anti-hero vampire and had kids running home from school in droves to wear their fake vampire fangs and watch the program in the late afternoon. At least a passing mention should be made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.188.242 (talk) 21:01, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Folk Beliefs\Creating Vampires

Shouldn't one of the main formula's documented for creating a vampire be, being bitten by a vamipire?
Or was this only a formula used in fiction, and not an actual folk belief? Is this method stated anywhere in the article?