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Talk:Sweden during World War II

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 80.216.202.212 (talk) at 20:51, 1 January 2010 (Better translation motivated. Also a discussion of social democrats vs communists.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Tidying citations.

I've tried to clean up most of the repeated citations. Having full citation templates in-line makes the notes section difficult to read, and the article difficult to edit. I'll do more later. Hohum (talk) 21:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

topics needing mentioning in the article

  • February crisis of 1940
  • the "Permitenttrafik"
Should include the refusal of transitions to Norway before its surrender
  • the "Narvik-plan"
Should probably just be a note somewhere, but it should be mentioned
  • March crisis (1942)
  • Midsummer crisis
Should be somewhat rewritten. The existing reference is to a webpage with a minimal image of the first page of a pdf, but it doesn't mention the conclusion stated in the article.
  • February crisis of 1942
  • the "Lejdbåtstrafik"
  • the Swedish attempts to broker peace in the continuation war
  • the trade with the Wermacht in finland
I had not herd of that until today (2009-06-16) if it is true, it should definetly be mentioned.
I believe it's true that Sweden sold some equipment to the Wehrmacht in Finland (trucks and tents) during the early forties and also that the Germans were permitted to hold one supply base (probably only food and fodder) close to Luleå. It's mentioned in a book I can't seem to find at the moment (collaborative effort with an American ex-military called something like kriget om Nordkalotten ~"the war for the polar cap"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.205.156 (talk) 11:54, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kriegsfall Schweden
The German 1943 plan to occupy Sweden

Realpolitik agenda (talk) 22:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

New articles

I'm currently working on quite a few new articles on Sweden during WW2, covering the topics I mentioned above. I've also made a template to include on pages about Sweden during WW2. Please check it out, comment, and criticise.

Realpolitik agenda (talk) 14:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Coward country

Currently in the article:

During the war, he also referred to Sweden as "that small, coward country"

Cited to:Zubicky, Sioma (1997). Med förintelsen i bagaget (in Swedish). Stockholm: Bonnier Carlsen. p. 122. ISBN 91-638-3436-7.

This appears to be a childrens book - WorldCat says it is "Book : Biography : Juvenile audience".

Although I can find this quote (blindly) repeated many times on the internet, I can't find an English book source, or reliable internet source to support this "famous" quotation from Winston Churchill.

Thoughts? Hohum (talk) 15:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a childrens book, it's easy to read but that's mostly because it's short. (110 + 20 or so pages with interviews) However, the isbn and page number differs from my edition of the book. I do agree though that it's strange that this quote is only found in this book. The only internet sources I find seems to copy the wikipedia page. // Tooga - BØRK! 22:55, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Does it give a date for when it was supposed to have been said, where, to who, or who is reporting that he said it? Hohum (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, nothing. It's just mentioned, no detail at all. // Tooga - BØRK! 23:48, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I don't think it should be included. The complete lack of corroborating sources make it rather dubious. I'll wait at least a few days for other opinions or sources. To me, it's not credible, if it had happened, that there wouldn't be additional sources for such a famous and well recorded figure saying such a notable thing. Hohum (talk) 00:01, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reputedly Churchill stated to Swedish diplomats that he realized the pressure Sweden was under. Swedish neutrality during WWII is somewhat prominent in Swedish interior politics on a guilt-by-association level. The book's value as a source may be rather weak. I've asked on an internet list for admirers of Churchill and noone there recognized it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.205.156 (talk • contribs)
I'm removing it, if someone else finds reliable references they can reinstate it. If you find references to Churchill realising the pressure Sweden was under, it may benefit the article. Hohum (talk) 14:33, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It might have been a memoir by the Foreign minister, my flat is in a flux right now and it may take time to find it. This is the Churchill list BTW: churchillchat@googlegroups.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.205.156 (talk) 15:54, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested improvements

  • The post-war election was, AFAIK, not the first free election, but the first where all adults, including women, had the vote. I'm not certain where the argument that conservatives wanted strong leaders is coming from, though I'm not an expert on interior politics of Sweden between the wars. Possibly it refers to the political monarchists who were almost completely isolated in Swedish domestic politics, particularily so after the late 19th century. Anyways, the link leads to an inappropriate page (possibly because of renaming articles after the linking).
  • The conservatives and "right wings" would seem to be divided in two groups - conservatives and nazis, the official policy from the conservative party already from the early 1930s was that Nazi Germany was a threat to peace. In addition there were a nazi-party (one of three, the other two evolving from communists and social democrats) that evolved from a conservative parrty youth organization (Svensk Nationell Ungdom) and evicted by them for its growing allegiance to Nazi Germany.
  • There were sympathies for Germany but that was mostly remnants of a Swedish tradition of cultural and political influence from Germany dating at least from mid 19th century, if not the medieval age. The Swedish Nazi parties reputedly considered the swastika a political liability and replaced it with new symbols. The German attack on Denmark and Norway made the Germans so impopular in Sweden that even Swedish Nazis objected.
  • I believe the numbers for the Swedish volunteers for the Winter War was about 9.500 (Finland i Krig, 1939-1945, pt 1, ISBN 951-50-0373-3 states 8.260 for the Svenska Frivilligkåren ~ Swedish corps of volunteers and 1.182 other Swedish volunteers), though in honesty it might be mentioned that some of these, especially among the latter group, were probably Finnish expats/immigrants in Sweden if one goes by their names.
  • The text regarding Swedish volunteers for the Waffen SS might be expanded, to include the times when they joined up and the unit they fought in (a recon company in SS Wiking?). Instead of claiming that this was not Swedish policy, it might be preferrable to mention that joining foreign militaries was against the law in Sweden. I also know that some more Swedes fought for Finland in the continuation war, possibly an entire battalion was present in the Finnish armed forces.
  • In the discussion of division into revolutionaries and reformists I think a better word would be groupings or wings, rather than flanges. This would seem to be Swenglish and an expression inproperly translated - rather than phalanxes - and somewhat inappropriate in English since phalanx has strong other connotations in English (namely to fascism).
I exchanged "flanges" with "opposing groups" as a better translation of the Swedish "falanger". Technically the descriptions of groupings as social democrats and communists are incorrect. Both groups were part of the movement of social democrats during the 19th cty; the revolutionary split and renaming into communists happened first after the establishment of the Soviet Union.
  • Sweden was dependent on imports for most military needs, thus trying to purchase weaponry from the big powers (aircraft from the US and Italy, destroyer from Italy, field artillery from Germany, etc), it also leased Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft guns to the British and the US.
  • You might mention the buildup of the Swedish defenses during the war. I might be able to return with data at a later point.
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