Talk:Maremmano-Abruzzese Sheepdog

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Maremmano-Abruzzese Sheepdog article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Dogs Start‑class Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Canidae and commonly referred to as "dogs" and of which the domestic dog is but one of its many members, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DogsWikipedia:WikiProject DogsTemplate:WikiProject DogsDogs

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Dogs To-do:

Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Dogs:

Recent changes patrol: members can review the recent changes list to be aware of improvements or vandalism.
Expand and improve citations: Akita (dog), American Bully, Artois Hound, Azawakh, Barbet (dog), Basset Fauve de Bretagne, Bavarian Mountain Hound, Bearded Collie, Beauceron, Berger Picard, Black and Tan Terrier, Black Norwegian Elkhound, Border Collie, Border Terrier, Bouvier des Ardennes, Bouvier des Flandres, Braque du Bourbonnais, Brazilian Terrier, Briquet Griffon Vendéen, Brittany (dog), Bullenbeisser, Bull Terrier, Ca de Bou, Cairn Terrier, Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Campeiro Bulldog, Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Chilean Terrier, Chow Chow, Colombian Fino Hound, Corsican Dog, Cretan Hound, Croatian Sheepdog, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Danish Spitz, Dingo, Dobermann, Dogue Brasileiro, Dunker, East Siberian Laika, English Cocker Spaniel, English Foxhound, English Toy Terrier (Black & Tan), Erbi Txakur, Estonian Hound, Estrela Mountain Dog, Finnish Lapphund, Flat-coated Retriever, French Bulldog, Galgo Español, Gaucho sheepdog, German Hound, German Shepherd, German Wirehaired Pointer, Glen of Imaal Terrier, Gordon Setter, Great Dane, Greek Harehound, Griffon Bruxellois, Guatemalan Dogo, Gull Dong, Halden Hound, Hamiltonstövare, Hanover Hound, Havanese dog, Hokkaido (dog), Hovawart, Ibizan Hound, Icelandic Sheepdog, Indian Spitz, Irish Setter, Irish Terrier, Irish Water Spaniel, Istrian Coarse-haired Hound, Jagdterrier, Jämthund, Kai Ken, Karakachan dog, Karelian Bear Dog, Karst Shepherd, Keeshond, Kokoni, Kooikerhondje, Koolie, Kuchi dog, Kuvasz, Labrador Retriever, Large Münsterländer, Lucas Terrier, Magyar Agár, Miniature Bull Terrier, Miniature Fox Terrier, Mongrel, Mountain Cur, Northern Inuit Dog, Norwegian Elkhound, Norwich Terrier, Old Danish Pointer, Old English Bulldog, Old English Sheepdog, Pastor Garafiano, Pastore della Lessinia e del Lagorai, Patterdale Terrier, Pekingese, Perro Majorero, Peruvian Hairless Dog, Petit Basset Griffon Vendéen, Pharaoh Hound, Plummer Terrier, Plott Hound, Polish Greyhound, Porcelaine, Portuguese Water Dog, Pudelpointer, Rajapalayam dog, Rat Terrier, Saarloos wolfdog, Sabueso Español, Saint Miguel Cattle Dog, Šarplaninac, Schipperke, Serrano Bulldog, Shikoku dog, Skye Terrier, Sloughi, Slovak Cuvac, Small Münsterländer, Smithfield (dog), Smooth Collie, South Russian Ovcharka, Spanish Water Dog, Standard Schnauzer, Swedish Vallhund, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Terceira Mastiff, Thai Bangkaew Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, Tibetan spaniel, Tornjak, Weimaraner, Welsh Hound, Welsh Terrier, West Siberian Laika, Westphalian Dachsbracke, Xoloitzcuintle, Xigou
Stub class articles in need of development: Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, Argentine pila dog, Armant (dog), Assyrian Mastiff, Banjara Hound, Billy (dog), Braque Dupuy, Bruno Jura Hound, Bulgarian Scenthound, Ca Rater Mallorquí, Calupoh, Campeiro Bulldog, Can de Chira, Cane Paratore, Cantabrian Water Dog, Chortai, Córdoba fighting dog, Denmark Feist, East European Shepherd, English Shepherd, Faroese Sheepdog, Gończy Polski, Grand Griffon Vendéen, Gull Dong, Hanover Hound, Hygen Hound, Japanese Terrier, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Kunming dog, Kurdish Mastiff, Levriero Sardo, Mahratta Hound, Majorca Ratter, Maneto, Markiesje, Molossus (dog), Montenegrin Mountain Hound, Rampur Greyhound, Romanian Mioritic Shepherd Dog, Sapsali, Sarabi dog, Schweizer Laufhund, Segugio Maremmano, Segugio dell'Appennino, Sinhala Hound, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Taigan, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Tazy, Toy Bulldog, Treeing Cur, Vikhan Sheepdog, Westphalian Dachsbracke, White Shepherd
Suggested Featured Articles due for re-assessment: Beagle (2007)
Suggested Good Articles due for re-assessment: Swift fox (2008); Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (2009); Clumber Spaniel (2009); Russian Spaniel (2009); Sussex Spaniel (2009)
Requested images: Briquet de Provence, Denmark Feist, Erbi Txakur, Jeju dog, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Levriero Sardo, Liangshan Dog, Perdigueiro Galego, Segugio dell'Appennino, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Tarsus çatalburun, Tibetan Kyi Apso, Vikhan Sheepdog, Villanuco de Las Encartaciones

Italy Start‑class Low‑importance

	Italy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Possible copyvio

I have sent email to thewestlord@yahoo.com, which is the email address on the page from which this came, asking whether they're the ones who posted it and release their copyright, or whether we need to remove it. So I'm letting this sit for a moment... Elf | Talk 03:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, when I asked about whether OK to use under GFDL or PD, got this response:

Wikipedia .. you the best site ever.

feel free to use the text anyway you like it .

Linda ,

Rmoving copyvio notice AGAIN

see above. Elf | Talk 00:47, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It is ridiculous to think that an editor's statement that they recieved an e-mail from the purported author is valid proof that copyright violations do not exist!

Photo Request

Template:Reqbreedphoto

130.195.86.36 (talk) 02:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC) question re: photo request I have (original) photos of my Maremmas - can I send them to someone to review and post to this article? Regards, brian.a.lyall@gmail.com, 7 January 2008[reply]

Weight

How much do they weigh? Weight is mentioned indirectly but there is no actual weight range or average listed.

Original Use Section Cleanup

The Original Use section is not encyclopedia quality, referring specifically to the last line of "don't get me wrong-they bark". It also is packed full of sexist language. I will change these two without changing any of the actual content. Upon reading over the passage, I decided it would be best to remove the last line completely. I will paste it here so nobody has to bother with history if they think it should stay. "these dogs are great to have as a family pet but don't get me wrong-they bark." Sparkleiya 04:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Breed name

Maremmano-Abruzzese Lorna Coppinger and Raymond Coppinger, the biologists who are the preeminent experts on Livestock Guarding Dogs describe the "breed" (a term the Coppingers question) as the Italian "Maremmano-Abruzzese " in their book "Dogs: A New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution (2002), University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0226115631. The Maremmano-Abruzzese being one of five or six dogs types involved in annual sheep migrations from highlands to lowlands common in many parts of the world. Should this article be titled "Maremmano-Abruzzese"? The Coppingers find that there is no valid distinction between dogs from the Tuscan Marremma and those from Abruzzo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MGerety (talk • contribs) 01:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless I this is a similar cousin this beautiful dog is also called a Pastore Abruzzese (Abruzzese Shepherd) at least in Avezzano, Italy (which is in Abruzzo). I had asked the locals what they call this stunning dog which I had never seen before.192.88.165.35 (talk) 17:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So-called copyright violation

A user who failed to login, and thus identify him or herself leaving only IP addresses, first claimed a lack of references and then labelled the previous version of this article a possible copyright violation. Before realizing that the user's objections were nonsense and that a user on that IP address had been cited for bogus edits, I rewrote the article so as to avoid any possible appearance of such a violation, relying on a number of academic articles including Drs. Coppinger at Hampshire College, the preeminent experts on livestock guarding dogs, as well as articles in Italian about this fabulous dog. i am personally quite familiar with this breed seeing them quite often in Abruzzo guarding their flocks of sheep. MGerety 03:33, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The user's claims were not bogus. Several parts of the previous version were copied almost word from word from the article on this breed at Dog Breed Info. Collectonian 05:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right. The florid description of the "standard" Maremma did take language from the that site, though very similar language is repeated in many kennel Club descriptions. Since biologists dispute breeding working dogs simply for appearance rather than behavioral characteristics that portion was not suitable at any rate. However, the remainder of the article especially that written about the dog's origins seemed original, in fact, the same IP user criticized it as possibly being "original research". I think it is not appropriate to delete photographs and then label ones restoration "vandalism" though the point on article length. Added headers as suggested MGerety 11:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Restoring photos that had been removed as a legitimate edit almost immediately after their removal with no justification or commentary and by passing the revert system does constitute a form a vandalism. If someone objected, they should have broached it on the talk page as the removal was properly justified to bring the article into proper compliance with Wikipedia policies. Also, OR can be applied if the article lacked citations, conclusions were drawn by combining multiple sources to make a new line of thought, etc. Collectonian 22:49, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bravo

This article is now greatly improved, with new headers much better than mine. MGerety 22:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Thanks for stepping in to giving it a good rewrite :) Collectonian 22:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pastore Abruzzese

I think this web site displays banner adds but itself is non-commercial.

MGerety 03:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From the rough translation of the pages, it appears that they also sell puppies, which makes it commercial and non-neutral, unfortunately Collectonian 04:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

maremma (maremmano-abruzzese ) versus Pastore Abruzzese

reference number 2 links to the site of Marco Petrella a breeder of pastore Abruzzese/Mastino Abruzzese, which is not the same dog as the maremmano-abruzzese (petrella lists the maremmano as one of the least typical subtypes of abruzzese dogs). The people of Abruzzi believe that their original Livestock Guardian dog is the "cane di pecora" a term which include the Pastore Abruzzese and Mastino Abruzzese, which are much larger than a maremmano-abruzzese. The Original Dog of Abruzzi is the Cane di pecora/Pastore Abruzzese/Mastino abruzzese which is NOT recognized by ENCI (the italian kennel club) although their recognition is being worked on. The Maremmano -Abruzzese is a creation of ENCI "experts" which years ago took abruzzese dogs and maremmanos (which are abruzzese dogs used in an area of Tuscany)and mixed them to create the maremmano-abruzzese breed. The Shepherds from Abruzzi do not regard the maremmano-Abruzzese as their original flock guardian. The Maremmano-Abruzzese however DOES work effectively as a livestock guardian dog (it is derived from substrains of the original pastore abruzzese/mastino abruzzese breed) but the original working dog is the Mastino Abruzzese/pastore Abruzzese/cane di pecora. Hope this rant helps clarify what dog is what. A similar thing can be said about the breed "Anatolian Shepherd" which is a creation of western dog breeders who were trying to bring the Kangal Dog of Turkey to the west. Turks have no idea what an "Anatolian Shepherd" is, and certainly do not think of it as a Turkish breed, however every Turk knows the Kangal Dog, which is the national dog of Turkey so to speak. same thing happened when Russians took central asian dogs and created the "central Asian ovtcharka" which would mean nothing to a Turkmen (the national dog of Turkmenistan is the Alabai) or a Kazak (the local breed of dog is the Tobet) or an Uzbek (their molosser is the Torkuz), but essentially the russians took Alabais, Tobets, Torkuzs added some other strains, mixed them together and now are marketing their creation as "Central Asian Ovtcharka" which is in fact a mixture of many things ....Hope this helps —Preceding unsigned comment added by Altes2009 (talk • contribs) 11:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually in the absence of sources backing this up, that's not much help. Fences&Windows 14:56, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]