Talk:Sydney Grammar School

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Prep Schools

"two-thirds of the incoming Year 7 at College St. are from the two Preparatory Schools"

I was just wondering. If the Prep schools are about 140 boys per year, and main school is 200 boys per year, wouldn't that make the Prep schools be providing about HALF of the year 7 intake? Just curious. I realise it could be that the Prep schools have more boys at Grade 6. Yes come to think of it that seems highly likely: how very unusual for a primary school to be top-heavy. (attard)

Correct

there are actually 180-190 boys per year in College Street. I'm a student there! Although there 140 boys in year six inluding both prep schools, about 10-15 of these would leave Grammar. The reason why there are more students in year 5 & 6 is because ten pupils enter in year 5 by acheiving good results in the entrance exam User:DaGizza/Sg 09:54, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Neutrality of the "Evaluation" section

I thought it was fairly obvious that the section wasn't neutral, but I'll explain:

"Such achievement ranks Sydney Grammar as one of the best secondary schools on the continent." - Which ranking of schools would this be referring to? Wikipedia is not the place to evaluate how good a school is.
"Sydney Grammar is the most academically proficient private school in NSW" - reference? I would've thought that would be James Ruse...

Those are the only two things I object to. So either the section needs a npov warning, or those two parts removed/edited. If you can provide a reference for the second part, then that's fine. I'm removing both, for now. - James Foster 08:22, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

James Ruse is a selective public school. I think the comment that SGS is one of the better schools in Australia is a fair comment although you are right to correct the wording. You can only really rank schools based on external assessment marks and this is no indication of actual academic proficiency. Razol2 13:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Neutrality of the "Evaluation" section

Firstly, Sydney Grammar School is rated the top ranking boys private school, and the second top ranking private school in Sydney by the SMH HSC 'rank' each year, year in year out. James Ruse is NOT a private school, it is public, but selective, likes Sydney Boys High. It isnt verifiable that it is the best school academically on the continent of Australia, there is no Australia-wide rank, for all we know, Launceston High, or Wagga Wagga Boys High School could be the best, but they arnt. This is Sydney, the most competitive city academically, with the most private schools, the best schools, and the smartest students. If Grammar does well here, it does well across the country.

In Summary: SGS IS the most academically proficient private school in NSW according to the SMH HSC ranking published yearly, and since JRHS isnt a private school your example is void

SGS is among the best secondary schools on the continent because it does so well in Sydney, it must do so well nationally.

NPOV

Adding to my previous comment, while I dont doubt some of the article was a tad biased, SGS is one of the best private schools. Furthermore the day's minor war over neutrality is a little petty, especially the NPOV notice. It's just an article on a school, not Palestinian terrorism.

I didn't really think of it as a "war over neutrality". I put the NPOV notice there initially because I wanted to bring the section to someone's attention, but didn't feel like changing it at the time. The other stuff you stated above is fine, as long as you realise some of it was just opinion. If it's ranked #1 by SMH, then just say that, rather than saying it is "the best school". Although it being the best school may actually be a fact, you still shouldn't state it in a way where it looks like opinion. State who regards it as the "best school", in this case, saying SMH does would be fine. (and a reference for this sort of claim would be good, too) - James Foster 08:30, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes actually one must admit that it's too vague to say it's the "best school". Best in what way? You're quite right. Let's not say that it is the "best school". But SGS is objectively known to be the top in academic performance: I don't think there's really any controversy there. The controversy would be in relation to other matters.

Crest + Photos

Can someone get a good copy of the school crest, and some good photos of the school and put them up, that'd make the article look a lot better, especially with a crest in the info box. Thanks

I downloaded a newsletter from the Grammar Website and took a printscreen of the logo. It's now up and running. I'm not too experienced with all the formatting but it seems to look fine the way I've done it anyway. Enjoy. mdmanser 23:43, 21 October 2005 (AEST)

Levels of Importance

Just a little note to everyone to suggest that the SGS page not become cluttered with less important information. The University Chancellors, for example. In Australia, Chancellor is an essentially ceremonial role. Vice-Chancellor is the person actually in charge of the University. Also, are we certain that all the people in the 'Notable Alumni' section are actually significant and important people? I will assume that they are, but ask people to consider the issue.(attard)

The list of extra-curricular clubs is also becoming a spot for every man and his dog to add a name. Someone should go through and keep only the most notable clubs (eg. historical Cadets programs, strong chess team). Harro5 21:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merging J. T. Vallance article here

To read or take part in this discussion, please see the comments here. Harro5 06:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion has now ended with a resulting redirection of the page to SGS and a paragraph on Vallance added to this page. Harro5 21:25, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Headmasters

Well seeing as though a new "Headmasters" section has been added of late, I'd imagine it'd be appropriate to start a compilation of every headmaster that has ever been at Grammar. I found an article on Albert Bythesea Weigall, and if my memory is correct, he was the second headmaster ever at Grammar, after W. J. Stevens. If anyone knows any more, put it in here. http://gutenberg.net.au/dictbiog/0-dict-biogWe-Wy.html

Merging Headmasters Articles with SGS article was not advisable

Really sorry to be making this comment after discussion has ended, but I'd just like to say that I disapprove of the merging of the Headmasters' articles with the SGS page. I think some of the Headmasters are definitely important enough to warrant their own articles. But they should not be on the main SGS page because a visitor to the SGS page may very well not be interested in all this arcane biographical information about the headmasters. After all, they visited the page for the purpose of learning about the school, not the life and times of the headmaster. (attard - 2 January 2006)

Evaluation section

This section was extremely POV. I've bolded the POV stuff below, and italicised stuff with no references to verify claims (including unnamed people).

Sydney Grammar is the most academically proficient private school in NSW, let alone of the GPS schools, as measured by consistent performance in the Higher School Certificate.

Supporters of the school would suggest that it provides a truly intellectual grounding. Detractors of the school however, would argue that it provides a "spoon-fed" education without true independence of thought, and that its excellent examination results are merely a reflection of the extraordinary quality of the intake. Supporters would respond that this issue is lessening with time under the current Headmaster, J.T. Vallance. Dr. Vallance claims that the aim of the School is not exclusively to achieve high academic results in the HSC, but to prepare students for life by giving them a "liberal, humane, pre-vocational education", and that the diversity of the School's music, sport and extra-curricular programme is a testament to this philosophy.

Irrespective of which camp is correct, there can be little doubt that Sydney Grammar is both the most extreme and the most exceptional example of its type of school in Australia.

This section should not be re-added without references, a re-write and prior discussion on the talk page. Harro5 23:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Grammar actually is the most academically proficient private school in NSW, let alone of the GPS schools and that is measured by consistent performance in the HSC. So I think that can be legitimately mentioned. The idea of an evaluation is unnecessary though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.225.76.92 (talk • contribs)
- Fair enough. If someone can find a rankings list like like Victorian one add it, but otherwise this is a good start. The rest should be left on the scrap heap for the moment. Harro5 07:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - The recent HSC results may be used. DaGizza 13:44, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

XXX http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/12/16/1134703611489.html Sydney Grammar came 7th in the state, the best performing private school. monkeytrumpets 12:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]