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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by LedRush (talk | contribs) at 22:25, 29 January 2010 (→Article Name). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Articles for deletion A large discussion, on 2009-04-05, was held on whether this article should be named Maundy Thursday or Holy Thursday. The result of the discussion was that the article will retain the title Maundy Thursday.

Article Name

I did a search for "Holy Thursday" and was surprised to be directed to this article. I had never heard of "Maundy" anything before, so I assumed I had searched incorrectly and searched again. After some confusion, I came to learn that some English people use this term for "Holy Thursday". So, my next obvious question was why is the article titled "Maundy Thursday"? I searched the archives and saw that this discussion has been played out before. However, when virtually all Catholics and U.S. English-speaking Christians call the day "Holy Thursday" (constituting the vast majority of Christians), how can we justify calling the article "Maundy Thursday"?LedRush (talk) 20:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as there has been no objection to the change, and the archived record seems to indicate more support for the change, would anyone like to add anything before a change is made?LedRush (talk) 17:33, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I congratulate you for checking before moving. Have you read the heated discussion on the disccusion that was held on the occasion of last year's Holy Thursday? That discussion is referred to in the second item at the top of this page. I do not believe you can win consensus for a change. If you do wish to try, why not wait until close to this year's Holy Thursday, when more editors will be looking at this page. I am of course using "Holy Thursday" in your sense (and mine), not in the sense found in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, where (doubtless following general English usage before the Protestant Reformation) it means what you and I call Ascension Thursday. This ambiguity of the term "Holy Thursday" is, I think, an important reason for keeping "Maundy Thursday" as the title of the article: "Maundy Thursday" may be a less common term, but it is unambiguous and generally understood even by those who do not use it themselves. Esoglou (talk) 19:33, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I read the history and knew this was way too contentious to unilaterally move without a very, very long warning period. In my reading of the history, it looked like there was more support for "Holy Thursday" than "Maundy Thursday", but I could be mistaken. Also, I am not persuaded by the potential Holy/Ascension mix up: So very few Christians know of or use the term Maundy that the confusion of its use would be far greater than a mix up over Holy/Ascension. Any potential mix-up could be dealt with more easily than the Maundy/Holy mix up is: in the lead.LedRush (talk) 20:45, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I just went back through the archives and saw that while the discussions seem to favor a move, the last vote does not.LedRush (talk) 20:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Also, just to set the record straight, the official Catholic term in English is "Holy Thursday" http://www.vatican.va/liturgical_year/holy-week/2009/index_en.htm Of course, this is not a dispositive argument. I am merely trying to get a baseline for impending discussions.LedRush (talk) 21:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Methodists in the US use "Holy Thursday" in what appears to be an official capacity. http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=258&GID=180&GMOD=VWD&GCAT=H LedRush (talk) 21:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Internationally, Lutherans officially say "Maundy Thursday". http://www.lutheranworld.org/News/LWI/EN/2032.EN.html LedRush (talk) 21:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
American Presbytarians officially use "Maundy". http://www.pcusa.org/missionyearbook/Apr/09.htm LedRush (talk) 21:55, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Orthodox Catholic Church seems to use "Holy" (or "Holy and Great") http://www.homb.org/calendar-and-daily-readings/church-calendar.php LedRush (talk) 22:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Anglicans use "Maundy" http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/news.cfm?mode=entry&entry=A908EEFA-0FA9-AFB6-3632ACDD53A6D8D1 LedRush (talk) 22:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Baptists don't appear to celebrate the holiday.LedRush (talk) 22:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would encourage you to read the Names in English section of the article. In the previous consensus on this issue, it was decided to retain the name Maundy Thursday as the article title, especially since Holy Thursday is the alternate name for Ascension Day in some Churches. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have read the section and, as I have indicated above, I have read the archive.LedRush (talk) 22:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

passover

This article seems to be more about the naming convention of different sects of Christians, and not on the day itself. How is it that the word "passover" does not appear in this article?LedRush (talk) 21:00, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article is about the Christian celebration of Holy Thursday, not about the Jewish feast of Passover, which the Gospel of John describes as beginning on the evening of what we would call Good Friday, not Holy Thursday, of the year when Jesus died. See John 19:14, [1] and [2]. That complicates matters. Esoglou (talk) 19:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Holy Thursday is a celebration of the last supper, which was a celebration of passover, no?LedRush (talk) 20:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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