Talk:Palestinian Jews

This article has a bearing on the Arab-Israeli conflict. It relates to the movement which aims at redefining "Palestine" and "Palestinian" so that these terms refer exclusively to non-Jewish residents of Palestine (region).

Usage of the term "Palestinian Jews" has changed along with the new meaning of "Palestinians" to mean "Palestinian Arabs". --Uncle Ed 15:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

While I agree that Palestine as a region includes all those living within as Palestinians, the existence of the State of Israel has caused the term to be synonymous with only the Arab inhabitants of Palestine. Thus, a definition like this, while not entirely accurate due to the misconception that only Arabs are 'Palestinian', is somewhat necessary. —Aiden 23:51, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

It needs to be noted here that Jews can also be Arab. In fact, most Palestinian Jews are Arab as well as Jewish.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 20:55, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes I think "Palestinians" = "Palestinian Arabs" = "Arabs of Palestine (region". --Uncle Ed 00:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

PLO point of view

copied from Palestinian People

The Palestinian National Covenant, devised by the Palestine Liberation Organization in 1968, defines Palestinians as "those Arab citizens who were living normally in Palestine up to 1947, whether they remained or were expelled" and their descendants through the male line. Article 6 states "Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist Invasion will be considered Palestinians."

The above is irrelevant as a definition of Palestinian Jew, no more so than the Nazi definition of Jew, or the Christian definition of Jew, etc.. The term Palestine denoted a piece of land which included Jews up until 1948, after which the Palestinian Jews were magically transformed into Israelis and Palestinian Arabs were "Arabs" until about 1967 and then "Palestinains" beginning not long after that. Also the population figures are misleading because the 5 % figure taken at a specific point of history is placed next to the creation of Israel, making it look as though Jews were five percent of Palestinians when Israel was created which no one claims is the case. 209.248.222.110 22:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

WP:NPOV says we represent all significant points of view on an issue, not that we begin by eliminating some based on personal prejudices. The PLO definition of who is a "Palestinian Jew' is valid and just one of many views represented in the article. You additions were worded is highly biased fashion and deleted this very relevant information. Please work on adding references for the material you insert and consider trying to "write for the enemy" so as to add neutrality to your writing. Tiamut 21:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Israelis and Palestinian Jews

Reverted text:

After the modern State of Israel was born, the Palestinian Jews began identifying themselves as "Israelis".

I don't understand what this means. Do you mean that

1. all Jews in Palestine began calling themselves Israelis?
2. all Jews in Palestine were granted Israeli citizenship?
3. after becoming citizens of Israel, Jews stopped calling themselves "Palestinian Jews"?

Why is the term "Palestine Jews" a problem here, and for whom is it a problem? Does the term have political overtones? If so, the political implications of the term should be discussed in the article. --Uncle Ed 18:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

That is not solely what was reverted. I believe your edits included the definition of Palestinian Jew according to Article 6 of Palestinian National Covenant which stated, "Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist Invasion will be considered Palestinians." This I objected to because of its connotations and lack of any alternative view in the article (hence systematic POV). We can define the term fine without using such POV sources in my opinion. —Aiden 01:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Palestinian Jews and Israelis

Cut from intro:

They are now simply identified as "Israelis" and are not distinguished from the majority of Israeli Jews resultant from the modern Zionist migrations.

This is unclear and possibly misleading. Not all Israelis are Jews, right? (See Israeli Arabs.) --Uncle Ed 18:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Use of term

Another cut:

... the term "Palestinian Jews" practically fell into disuse

I just got 55,700 English hits on a Google search for this term. In what contexts does the term no longer apply? --Uncle Ed 18:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Israelis

I have changed 'virtually all identify as Israelis' to 'many' - unless you have a statistic to show that 'virtually all' i.e. 99% do, then please do not revert back. I would like to insert a {{weasel}} tag too, but it will quickly be removed. also maybe a POV Lobbuss 09:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

You can forget it. Instead, I suggest that you bring proof that not 'virtually all' Palestinian Jews identify as Israelis. I am getting tired of this. --Bear and Dragon 09:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

This is a bogus polemic article

And the proof in the pudding is the example of Uri Davis, a self-confessed anti-Zionist Jew. Whoever wrote this article might be interested to know that the term 'Palestinian Jew' does not exist in the Hebrew and Yiddish versions of this article. The term used is "HaYishuv haYashan", and that the traditional Jewish term for Jewry living in the Land of Israel was, tellingly, "The Jewish Yishuv in the Land of Israel". The Jews living in the Ottoman sanjaks corresponding to the later British Mandate of Palestine were neither called nor referred to themselves as "Palestinians". You might also like to know that the term Eretz Israel was in fact used on Mandate documents in the Hebrew language, in addition to the term 'Palestina'. This article is replete with historical revisionism, with an obvious agenda.

It is just like calling the Jerusalem Talmud 'the Palestinian Talmud', which has indeed been done, but at least has a tradition behind it in the English language.

But why should I complain? This is after all "The Free Encyclopedia".

J.D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 01:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This article needs to be merged with 'Yishuv', the traditional Hebrew name for "Palestinian Jew"

'haYishuv haYehudi be'Eretz Israel', i.e. The Jewish community in the Land of Israel. That is how they called themselves, not "Palestinians".

Citation?

This was deleted today without explanation, I assume because there was no citation. "The Palestinian National Covenant in 1968 defined a Jew as a Palestinian only if their family (through the male line) had resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist migrations (considered to have started in 1917). While a number of Jews fall into this category, most tend to identify as Israelis." However, it seems like a relevant point, if a citation can be found. anyone? LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 14:45, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, the covenant doesn't specify a year; perhaps it's 1917, perhaps it's 1892. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Baloney

During the times of the British Mandate of Palestine, all residents of the Mandate were referred to as 'Palestinian' officially. However, the Arab residents of the Mandate, who largely identified with the Arab cause, and saw themselves as having a different national identity, viewed the term "Palestinian" as a derogatory colonialist British term, designed to erase their Arab identity.[citation needed] This sentiment was especially strong during the 1930s and early 1940s, when the idea of Greater Syria was viewed positively by the Arab of the Levant, among them the Palestinian Arabs.[citation needed]

During the 30s and 40s was when many organizations started using the "Palestine" in their titles eg al-Najjada..... Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 12:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed with Baloney

During the times of the British Mandate of Palestine, all residents of the Mandate were referred to as 'Palestinian' officially. However, the Arab residents of the Mandate, who largely identified with the Arab cause, and saw themselves as having a different national identity, viewed the term "Palestinian" as a derogatory colonialist British term, designed to erase their Arab identity.[citation needed] This sentiment was especially strong during the 1930s and early 1940s, when the idea of Greater Syria was viewed positively by the Arab of the Levant, among them the Palestinian Arabs.[citation needed]

I would strongly suggest having the above paragraph removed because of the following:

a) It is irrelevant to the topic b) There is ample evidence that suggests the contrary: That Arabs in Palestine pre 1948 saw themselves as Palestinians

Please see article on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian Palestinian People:

The first widespread use of "Palestinian" as an endonym to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the local Arabic-speaking population of Palestine began prior to the outbreak of World War I,[7] and the first demand for national independence was issued by the Syrian-Palestinian Congress on 21 September 1921.[8] After the exodus of 1948, and even more so after the exodus of 1967, the term came to signify not only a place of origin, but the sense of a shared past and future in the form of a Palestinian nation-state.[7] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheelo81 (talk • contribs) 04:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Uri Davis

Uri Davis is now muslim, he converted to Islam in 2008 to marry a palestinian lady.Miss-simworld (talk) 23:15, 21 January 2010 (UTC) Using him as an example is subjective.

Using his as an example is just fine, given that he identified as a Palestinian Jew, as described by reliable sources, using his own words. It doesn't matter that he has since converted to Islam. What matters is that he identified with this identity (and may still identify that way for all we know, while also identifying as Muslim. After all, Judaism is not only a religion, right?) Tiamut^talk 09:12, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

well im not jewish so i dont so how the jews see the whole who is a jew thing but the fact is he made those statements before 2008 , its not a question of identity here but accuracy.Miss-simworld ‎ (talk) 09:14, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

If you have a reliable source that says he converted to Islam after he made those statements, we can add it provide context. But the information is an accurate representation of how he saw his identity at the time and is sourced to a reliable source, so I see no reason to remove it. Tiamut^talk 09:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC)