Talk:Upasani Maharaj

Upasni or Upasani?

Where does the spelling of 'Upasni' come from? In every Shirdi Sai Baba book I've read, the spelling has always been 'Upasani'. Ekantik ^talk 19:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

It is spelled either way. A google search reveals a few more as Upasni Maharaj (1,971 hits) than Upasani Maharaj (731 hits). I went ahead and placed a redirect from Upasani Maharaj so it can be found now under either spelling. Here are some Sai sights that use the "Upasni" spelling. If you do a page search you'll find him spelled that way. [1] [2] Also some books on him have the shorter spelling: [3] AguireTS 01:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Reliable sources

It is extremely unlikely that there will any academically reviewed or other English-language sources on this subject beyond those associated directly with the subject, or by followers of Meher Baba or Sai Baba of Shirdi. That said, however, the sources cited do appear to satisfy the essential criteria referencing found here. I'm specifically mindful of these elements, which apply to self-published sources:

1. the material used is relevant to the notability of the subject of the article;
2. it is not unduly self-serving;
3. it does not involve claims about third parties;
4. it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
5. there is no reason to doubt its authenticity

So I'm removing the "reliable sources" tag, as it suggests that this article is somehow unreliable or dubious. It's about a notable subject, well known in India, interesting to a fairly rarefied bunch of Westerners, and unlikely ever to have more information unless and until WP provides an outlet for Original Research. --nemonoman (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Kevin R D Shepherd as a source

Please see this edit [4] by admin DGG regarding using Kevin R. D. Shepherd as a source. His self-published books are not reliable sources. WikiUserTalk 14:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

WikiUserTalk is overstating DGG's comment, and the latter reverted the former's deletion of my previous edit (see here). See also my response to DGG's comment (here). Simon Kidd (talk) 19:19, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Blogs are not reliable sources. Simon Kidd has a history of defending Kevin Shepherd everywhere on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Simon_Kidd Dazedbythebell (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out dazedbythebell. I also found that Simon Kidd did the same under his anonymous name of the communicator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/The_Communicator WikiUserTalk 05:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I have changed the title of this section, as the original title was prejudicial. DGG's final word on this matter (see here) clearly states his opinion that Shepherd's books 'are in a number of academic libraries, and I think sufficient to indicate that they are regarded as worth considering' and that books 'are not reliable vs. unreliable - they are of varying degrees of reliability'. This is borne out by Shepherd's case:

1. Rigopoulos and Warren, two of the academic authorities on Shirdi Sai Baba, both acknowledge Shepherd's contribution to the subject.

2. Shepherd also gives these authors their due, but points out that, notwithstanding their academic credentials, they were influenced in their interpretation by their connection with Sathya Sai Baba (although Warren subsequently rejected Sathya Sai Baba); academics are human, and have their own biases, which even editorial checking will not remove.

3. Academics are also prone to errors of fact and omission: as a specific example, the non-academic and self-published Shepherd points out Rigopoulos and Warren's lack of acquaintance with the Kishan Singh diary in their accounts of Upasni (Investigating the Sai Baba Movement: A Clarification of Misrepresented Saints and Opportunism, pp. 221-2 n. 388; see also pp. 185-6, n. 167).

4. Shepherd does not claim to be infallible: in his second book on this subject, he acknowledges and corrects several errors in the earlier book, as is standard scholarly practice.

As for myself, I am not an obsessive promoter of Shepherd, or indeed anyone. I have had a long-standing interest in this author, but have never even met him. I believe that his lack of self-promotion, along with his preference for self-publishing, have led to his neglect in certain areas. My only goal is to improve Wikipedia articles, sometimes by providing information that is not easily available to other editors. In this I will continue to use Shepherd and other authors. Any information I provide will be fully referenced and verifiable by others. I also attempt to improve the writing in articles. The reason that the history of my recent contributions contains so many references to Shepherd, is that I have been forced to defend his (and, by implication, my own) reputation against those who have called these into question.

My edits under my earlier user name show, for example, that I used Stanislav Grof's own books to create a significant new section in the Holotropic Breathwork article (see Reactions and contraindications). Even supporters of Grof pointed out that the original article was embarrassingly promotional.

I trust that WikiUserTalk will now abide by what he said at the RfC (here): 'DGG is a wikipedia administrator, impartial and well versed in wikipedia policy to a much greater extent than Kidd or me. Since no one else has definitively given an opinion, DGG's views are enough to conclude the issue.' I believe that DGG's judgment reveals the implicit application of common sense and, as such, is in keeping with the spirit of the encyclopedia.

Simon Kidd (talk) 03:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Redirect to Upasani Maharaj proposed

The name of Upasani Baba Maharaj is widely spelled as "Upasani" and not as "Upasni". Even the official Upasani Baba Maharaj Sthan spells his name as "Upasani" [5]. All the books I have read also spell his name as "Upasani". WikiUserTalk 05:44, 18 February 2010 (UTC)