Talk:Jared Taylor

Corrections to Taylor entry

ON GENETIC INTERESTS

This portion belongs in Works and Views, not in the introduction. As written, it gave a slanted impression. The changes put Taylor’s comments in context.

Old version:

In January 2005, Taylor in reviewing a book by Frank Salter, On Genetic Interests: Family, Ethnicity and Humanity in an Age of Mass Migration, agreed with Salter that an Englishman would be better off resisting the immigration of two hypothetical Bantu immigrants, than he would be to rescue one of his own children from drowning.

New version:

In January 2005, in reviewing a book by Frank Salter, On Genetic Interests: Family, Ethnicity and Humanity in an Age of Mass Migration, Taylor agreed with Salter that from a genetic point of view an Englishman would be better off resisting the immigration of two hypothetical Bantu immigrants, than he would be to rescue one of his own children from drowning. Taylor also noted this was an “extreme” conclusion.

WHITE SEPARATIST

The source cited calls Taylor a “self-described” white separatist, but gives no source. An exhaustive search of Taylor’s writing does not turn up a single occasion in which Taylor calls himself a white separatist. This term should be removed.

HOLOCAUST DENIAL

The section is completely inappropriate. Taylor has written millions of words about race and immigration, whereas this entire section is based on a single, ambiguous sentence he wrote in reply to what he apparently thought was a private correspondent.

Views on Interracial Relationships

Wikipedia guidelines state: “Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately.” There are no sources for Taylor’s alleged affiair with a Japanese woman, and rumors have no place in an encyclopedia. In an earlier discussion page, Taylor himself flatly denied the rumor and challenged anyone to produce evidence. None was forthcoming.

Furthermore, the Taylor article quoted later actually refers to the high level of attractiveness of both men and women. To leave out the men gives a false impression. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuppertwo (talk • contribs) 14:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

There are several sources which say that Taylor either is or calls himself a white separatist. These two are probably the best I found in a few minutes of searching: [1][2]   Will Beback  talk  17:36, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

My apologies, I hadn't realized that the version I had reverted to yesterday and on March 29 had the Akisada rumor still in it. As you can see in my edit summary on March 29, I agree with you that it is much too spurious to be mentioned here. As for the rest of the things, I will look at them all more clearly when I have some more free time. See here for a bit of background info on the Holocaust denial dispute. Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 17:38, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Those quotes are not "deceptive"

Calling them such, with no explanation, removing them from the article, then reverting a re-addition with no edit comment is more or less vandalism. WhyDoIKeepForgetting (talk) 20:25, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The quotes are manifestly deceptive. No honest person can read the footnoted article and conclude otherwise. To wit, he is claimed to comment on the attractiveness of Japanese with two quotes:

• Saying they have "a high average level of attractiveness". However, he clearly attributes this opinion (and only in reference to women) to "many Westerners", not himself. It is the worst kind of quoting out of context when someone says, "X says/claims/thinks/believes Y", and quote them as saying "Y".

• The "waddling colossi" comment. This is in a paragraph having nothing to do with attractiveness, but the homogeneity of the Japanese population, with the example that even fat Japanese are not all that fat.

Blatant misrepresentation is particularly egregious in the case of a WP:BLP.

Moreover, his article has almost nothing to do with beauty, so whatever comments about it he does make can not be considered a significant opinion of his. His "works and views" should emphasize his main, important beliefs, not side examples in service of a broader point.

Also, this user reverted my merging of the "Views on interracial relationships" into the "Works on views" section. No explanation was provided why this one view needs its own section separated from the rest of his views.

I'm reverting, of course. Tyuia (talk) 20:39, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

"But there is a different and more pleasant homogeneity that goes beyond racial traits" comes right before the "waddling collosi" sentence. This seems to me to obviously be about attractiveness. What does "pleasant" mean to you in that context?

The "high level" comment, in context, seems to me to indicate that he counts himself among the many who think so. In the interest of being careful, I agree it should be left out of this article.

One of his "important beliefs" is that Asians are superior to Caucasians. Beauty is certainly an aspect of that belief.

Thank you for explaining your reasoning on this talk page. WhyDoIKeepForgetting (talk) 20:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

What "pleasant" means is a matter of interpretation-- in a BLP it's especially important to not go beyond what the sources actually say. (He could, e.g., mean it's the homogeneity itself that is plesant.) I'm also pretty sure Taylor does not regard Asians as superior to Caucasians.

The "high level" comment goes in hand with his comment that Japanese don't reach the level of beauty of "models" and "stars". His broad point is about homogeneity and unexceptionalism, and attractiveness is just one example. I still don't see why this minor sub-sub-point deserves a paragraph in his "Works and views", given the considerable body of writings Taylor has authored.

As phrased, it also gives the false impression that "waddling colossi" are the American norm, when he's merely stating that the fattest Americans exceed (so to speak) the fattest Japanese.

However, I'll leave it alone for now, in case anyone else wants to chime in. Tyuia (talk) 21:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Explanation of 8/15 changes to Taylor article

There are four areas I've addressed:

1. Paved With Good Intentions

Taylor’s book is about blacks, not multiculturalism, and what I have provided is the central thesis of the book.

2. Donahue Interview

In the Donahue interview, Taylor does not say anything that could be characterized as claiming that “Central Americans are organizing en masse and invading the rest of North America.”

What I have inserted reflects Taylor’s actual words from the Donahue interview: “The Mexican officials themselves are proud of the fact that, as they say, street by street, town by town, Mexico is taking back the Southwestern part of the United States.” I have also fixed the link in note 6 so it leads to a transcript of the actual interview.

3. European Immigration Policies

The former version is mind-reading: “Taylor has often expressed great personal distaste over the growing presence of non-whites in European and European-derived countries.” Perhaps Taylor does have “great personal distaste” for non-whites in Europe, but the quotation from him that follows does not prove it. This article should let readers draw their own conclusions from Taylor’s own words; therefore the setup to the quote should be neutral.

4. Appearance of the Japanese

The two sentences I have deleted are incoherent. On the subject of physical attractiveness, Taylor has written only this: “Physical beauty is subjective, but many Westerners think that even if Japanese women never achieve the breath-taking beauty of European models or movie stars, they have a high average level of attractiveness. Staying slim and dressing stylishly have a lot to do with it.”

Taylor does not attribute their attractiveness to immigration policy, and “attention to detail” is a clumsy rewording of “staying slim and dressing stylishly.” Given the nature of Taylor’s work and interests, his views on the attractiveness of Japanese is extremely unimportant, but if something about them is to be included at all, the passage should reflect something he actually wrote.

The “slouching kind of contempt” phrase is in the specific context of uniformed personnel. Perhaps Taylor thinks blacks and Hispanics in general have a “slouching kind of contempt” for their jobs, but he does not say that here. Therefore this section should be left entirely out, or the fuller passage should be quoted so the reader can draw his own conclusions.

TuppertwoTuppertwo (talk) 01:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I have changed the section about the Japanese people back. Attractiveness and immigration policy are tied by the beginning of that section: "Behind all this efficiency, of course, is the Japanese people, who by keeping out alien populations, have maintained complete control over their society. To the Western eye, they are physically homogeneous . . . "

The reasons for his separatist views are partially aesthetic. I think this is relevant. WhyDoIKeepForgetting (talk) 05:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

If Taylor has “separatist views” why would he call the Japanese attractive? I repeat, his views of the Japanese are an unimportant part of his body of work, but if included, should be quotations rather than inaccurate paraphrasing.

Furthermore, regarding the "white separatist" label in the opening: First, the quotation from Taylor is not in the Donahue interview. It is here:

http://www.amren.com/news/news04/02/27/jtconf2004talk.html

Second, it is deeply misleading to call Taylor a “white separatist” on the basis of this passage. Taylor specifically denies being a “separatist” in the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vENXFxETlGQ

In the following article he also rejects the label of “separatist” and argues for complete freedom of association.

http://www.amren.com/ar/2001/06/

The following statements also emphasize freedom of association, which is not commonly assumed to be the same as “white separatism,” which implies forcible exclusion.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/03/smu_cancels_deb.php

http://www.amren.com/ar/2008/01/

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/07/a_reply_to_taki.php

If someone thinks the passage about being “left alone” is important, quote it as one of Taylor’s views and let the reader make up his own mind.

Finally, regarding Katrina: The setup here to the quotation about the “capacity of blacks” is mind-reading, so I have made it neutral.

TuppertwoTuppertwo (talk) 16:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

@Fastilysock - Apropos my changes and question

There used to be a picture. So it's a legitimate question to ask why it was removed. Why do you insult me? Why do you call me a vandal? Wikipedia is supposed to be NPOV – and my honest and open opinion is that many of Nosliwnad's changes made the article worse. Why was the infobox removed? Instead of insulting me and threatening to censor further contributions you should be open-minded and open for discussion. 217.236.201.18 (talk) 20:39, 19 February 2010 (UTC)