Talk:Woman

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New Lead Image

I honestly think we should use an anatomy picture for the lead. It would serve to educate much better than a picture of a nude women or a drawing. I certainly would appreciate finding a good one. YVNP (talk) 00:47, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Before we continue, note that I'm assuming you're talking about some sort of anatomical diagram or illustration, rather than a photo of a dissected woman, which would be needlessly shocking. For such a diagram or illustration to vary from a drawing of a nude woman, it would have to either display only part of the body, or else display internal anatomy typically hidden by the skin.

That being the case, I disagree. The articles on other physical objects have a lead image which shows an external view of the thing under discussion. Ie., in the article on Skyscraper, one wouldn't expect the lead image to be a floorplan, a fire escape route drawing, or a diagram explaining how a tuned mass damper works. Those, after all, aren't the most important and immediately obvious visible details of a skyscraper. One would instead expect an exterior photo of a skyscraper, preferably with other objects to provide scale since a defining feature of a skyscraper is its size and height. Similarly with an "object" like a human being, such as a Woman or Man, the relevant lead image is one of that specific thing, preferably showing it to scale, but also - and this is the important thing for this article - showing its significant or defining features. Since for Man and Woman the defining features would be those aspects of the body which display sexual dimorphism, a nude is required in order to be fully informative. The lead image of any article referring to a commonly encountered object should show that object as it may appear if/when encountered.

Now, whether the lead image should be a work of art, a photo, or a photo of a work of art, or even a diagram, is open for debate, and each of these two articles has varied over the past 3-4 years between those types of image, iirc. At one point each article was using the Voyager probe diagrams of man and woman. But what seems settled is that the lead image for each should display a full body nude. The internal anatomy is important, and does have its image - but internal anatomy is not sufficiently descriptive of the differences between the two most common human sexes, as the reader is likely to encounter them. -Kasreyn (talk) 18:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Note, however, that the object in question here (woman) is normally NOT nude when encountered in the world. As the reader is likely to encounter "man" and "woman," they are likely to be clothed. Furthermore, I'm curious where it is "settled" that the images need to be fully nude? There are at least as many comments on the talk pages complaining about the nude images as there are supporting them. Is there some other discussion elsewhere where this issue was "settled?" Dunncon13 (talk) 14:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I think we definitely need a new image. Imagine a school child opening up the "woman" page at school, and then seeing this image. In many places it would be "not safe for work". I'm not arguing for censorship or anything, but at the very least, this picture could be moved down, and a picture of a woman wearing clothes could be added. This is one of the articles where you wouldn't expect to find such an image, especially at the front, and there are many more suitable images. This image doesn't add anything to the article that another might not. Can we get some kind of discussion or consensus on this? If not, I will go ahead and replace it if it's apparently no one cares. (npcserver) (talk) 05:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Why should it be a scientific picture? The idea of "woman" is so much more than a scientific idea. A diagram would be the worst thing I would want to see. 129.67.138.111 (talk) 16:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Could someone find a picture where the genitals aren't shaved? If this is supposed to represent a typical woman (I don't even want to start the race debate) then shouldn't the picture be free of obvious alterations like tattoos, piercings, and obvious shaving? Pescofish (talk) 08:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I thought the old image "Birth of Venus 1862 by Eugène Emmanuel Amaury-Duval" was fine.

NewYorkStyledCheesecakes! (talk) 09:20, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.25.33 (talk) 23:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC) 

I agree. Shaved genitals? Give me a break!71.134.42.129 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:35, 21 December 2009 (UTC).

The "frau" image has repeatedly failed to gain consensus on this page. It should not have been added to the article in the absence of that consensus. When was "Birth of Venus" removed? - Nunh-huh 19:12, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

We need to get rid of that silly symbol as the lead image. i'm sure the romans found it very obviously to be a women but it's not really very helpful for illustration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.147.147.237 (talk) 20:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I love this picture. This is perfect. Please don't change it. Gandydancer (talk) 14:31, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Please, please, please change this image. If a picture of a nude woman is absolutely necessary, make it an image which shows the female body in its natural state. Shaved genitals should be a lead picture on a page about warped body image, not one that supposedly represents Woman. Auntiecomstock (talk) 21:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh! I agree! Thanks so much for your post, Auntie. I'm afraid I did not look closely enough. I thought that they had just used shadow...I should have enlarged the image. I do prefer nude. BTW, I am a 67 year old granny... Gandydancer (talk) 22:09, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay to have list of women

I find it useful to see a list. Lois Guardener (talk) 18:24, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there also a list of men?

What sexism looks like.

Compare this article word for word with the equivalent article for the word "man." The parts where one gender is trivialized and one gender is normalized... that is where sexism lives.

Then rewrite it. A man probably wrote both articles.

Karyotype

The Kayotype picture mentions the XX-pattern to be formed in the 23rd week of gestation. As far as I know it is there at the conception, or isn't it?

--DrJos (talk) 11:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Blanked talk page (with archives?)

In December of 2009, someone blanked this talk page which removed all the links to the archives. How is this supposed to be correctly restored? The last page with links to archives is: Revision 329259167. Jeff Carr (talk) 17:55, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I reinserted {{talkheader}}. -- Basilicofresco (msg) 12:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Getting ridiculous

Is Wikipedia looking for attention or what the hell are these new nude photos for? And don't give me crap about not censored.. No need to censor but cmon.. Children use this site! Imagine your kid going to Wikipedia from school and his/her teacher showing up.. Way to get Wikipedia banned! --79.13.175.167 (talk) 19:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

"cmon" is such good logic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 (talk) 00:29, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the concept of "woman" is larger than "the woman body". There are better images than Frau-2.jpg to represent it. Please insert your thought in Talk:Woman/sandbox. -- Basilicofresco (msg) 11:59, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Missing language

I request editing in order to add the Haitian creole equivalent to the list of languages in the left-side column. RajkiandrisRajkiandris (talk) 06:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Present. -- Basilicofresco (msg) 12:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Overweight Woman

The woman whose picture is used appears overweight. If a picture of a nude woman is going to be used, why should that picture be overweight? The nude picture of a man in the "man" Wikipedia article does not appear overweight. A picture of an overweight woman is misleading as an aspect of an encyclopedic article on women, because it presents an image of a woman in an unhealthy state and a state that doctors advise one to avoid. 66.171.226.69 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC).

I disagree. You're probably just not used to seeing a real woman - and that's not your fault; The fashion industry is obsessed with portraying women as emaciated, skinny little boys. And celebrities with their addiction to plastic surgery, don't make the picture any prettier. Reality is often vastly different than the fantasy that you see all around you, and this photograph is a good representative sample of what a woman looks like. And, I think she looks great. Viriditas (talk) 03:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree that she is a good representative of the "average" woman. However, unfortunately, the average woman in the United States (as well as some European countries) is overweight. For the reasons previously stated, I don't believe that having a picture of an overweight woman is appropriate for an encyclopedic article. I am not making a judgment on her attractiveness or lack thereof. I am simply stating facts and that I do not believe that a condition recognized as unhealthy should be represented in the main picture for this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.171.226.69 (talk) 04:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)