Talk:Béchamel sauce

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White sauce in Middle Eastern food?

What is the "white sauce" in Middle Eastern food? It's typically served at carts and small places in NYC. It's always halal food. I think it's made with yogurt... possibly poppyseed? I don't think it's the same as this bechamel sauce... is it? Passdoubt | Talk 07:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is it tzatziki? - Gobeirne 05:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My friend thinks the "white stuff" is yogurt mixed with spices and cucumbers, or perhaps tahini. Otheus 07:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The recipe was deleted here but not added to Wiki Cookbook.--Wetman 08:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC) hello im ver sorry ez nice[reply]

Veloute in Sabina Welserin?

"The sauce called velouté, in which a blond roux is whisked into a white stock, is a full hundred years older, having appeared in the cookbook of Sabina Welserin in 1553."

I am familiar with this cookbook (in translation), and I don't see any recipes in it that can be accurately labelled as velouté.

There are three sauces in it that are liquids thickened with flour.

"5 How to cook a wild boar's head, also how to prepare a sauce for it" - the sauce here is fat, flour, wine, cherry syrup, and spices.

"9 To make a yellow sauce for game or birds" - fat, wine, broth, ginger, pepper, and a yellow colorant.

"11 To make a yellow peppersauce" - flour, fat, wine, broth (or pea puree), and "seasonings"

Of these three, the last two kind of sort of fit the description, except that they are obviously intended to be pepper-sauces. The last one fits only because the "seasonings" aren't specified. I expect from the name that it at least contained pepper and a yellow colorant. --Doc (talk) 18:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An English translation of this cookbook can be found online[1]

In what way does Sabina Welserin's lists of ingredients not imply the following: "fat + flour = blond roux, cooked or uncooked + wine or stock = velouté". Is there a problem? Not every flour-thickened stock is a velouté, of course, but how can the implication be avoided that "The sauce called velouté, in which a blond roux is whisked into a white stock, is a full hundred years older, having appeared in the cookbook of Sabina Welserin in 1553." Any suggestion that serves the Wikipedia reader improves the encyclopedia. --Wetman (talk) 19:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

photo illustration of French sauce is Italian

Bechamel is, as said in the entry, historically a French mother sauce, as is every named "classic sauce" [words from the entry] (of which there could be, of course, many more "children" white sauces), as well as the internal and external links in the entry. Given that, it seems odd that the one photo used to illustrate the entry is of lasagna. Shlishke (talk) 06:50, 25 November 2007 (UTC)Shliske[reply]

"Origins"

The following unsourced and generic assertions have been commented out:

Origin

The Italian version is that it was invented by Catherine de Medici's Tuscan cooks who brought it to France from Italy in the 17th Century.
- This is standard cooking pseudohistory, applied to various innovations. Placing Catherine de' Medici in the seventeenth century is the giveaway in this case.

It was created by Philippe de Mornay, who also is reputed to have invented Mornay sauce, Lyonnaise sauce, and Porto sauce.
- The editor has no idea who Philippe de Mornay, author of De L'institution, usage et doctrine du saint sacrement de l'eucharistie en l'église ancienne was, to be imagining him puttering about his kitchen "inventinmg" a long list of sauces. This Mornay is picked at random, to match up with sauce Mornay.

It was invented by Marquis Louis de Béchamel (1603–1703), a 17th century financier who held the honorary post of chief steward to Louis XIV (1643-1715).
- Louis XIV's dates are correct here.

It was it was created by François Pierre de la Varenne (1615-1678) who was chef to the court of Louis XIV (1643-1715) , during the time that Louis de Béchamel, was there. It is believed that La Varenne named the sauce in his honour.^[1]
- The article already offers a more sophisticated version of this.

As a general rule, anonymous edits are more likely to be irresponsible.--Wetman (talk) 07:53, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

^ History of Sauces

[1] History of Sauces

[1]