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Brazilian charts

When does a new month's Brazilian chart debut? I have only been peripherally following this issue, but my understanding was that, while there was no chart archive, a current chart could be found online. Yet upon a claim at I Want To Know What Love Is that Mariah Carey's version had charted at #1 there for five months, which they parenthetically claimed was 19 weeks, I scratched my head (as November through February is actually more like 13 weeks) and checked Wiki's Brasil Hot 100 Airplay article. There I found no March data, despite its being March 11. I then visited the link at Billboard Brasil, http://billboard.br.com/rankings#brasil-hot-100-airplay (because there is no reference for the material at Brasil Hot 100 Airplay), and found no current data for Brazil's charts, only a link to the U.S. charts for the week ending March 13.

Is it common for there to be a lag time between when the prior chart is removed from the site and the next one posted? (Why on earth would that be so? The only reason I can think of is that they are indicating that the chart is not meant to represent a whole month, but merely a representative week of that month?) Perhaps I'm checking during the couple of minutes the page is being reconfigured for the new month? Have the Brazilian charts been discontinued after a mere five? I'd be interested to know if anybody has any insight on this.

On a related issue, there is List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2009 (Brazil) and a List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2010 (Brazil). The inaugural chart was in October 2009 and it is a monthly chart, meaning that there are only 3 charts that year and only 12 charts in any year. The first #1 ran for two charts and the second #1 for three (albeit spanning two years), so the first list consists of two singles.

Additionally, there is a List of number-one pop hits of 2009 (Brazil) which happens to be the same as List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2009 (Brazil) (ditto for 2010). And then of course there is the domestic chart, List of number-one popular hits of 2009 (Brazil), which is a lone Brazilian artist for 2009 and another for 2010 to date. I note that List of French number-one hits of 2009 — which is a weekly chart — is split into physical singles and digital singles. The French list then adds the same data for albums as well as a top 10 of the year in both sales categories for both singles and albums.

Considering that there are only four singles represented across these six Brazilian articles covering five months' worth of three charts, doesn't it make sense to combine the scant data in a similar manner that we combine the more frequently updated data at the French article? Thanks, Abrazame (talk) 07:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From December to now makes 17 weeks. But for example say Beyonce was #1 for november, it was actually #1 for October because it updates at the beginning of the month. So for all intents and purposes the song has been #1 for around 20 weeks if you look at it like that. It's not Billboard Brazil that sourced that it was something else, I can't remember what but the source used compiles the charts for Billboard Brasil. Billboard Brasil's charts seems to be down but their compilers are still up and running (you can find it somewhere). I hope I explained that well. As for combining that data, I think Billboard Brasil should be completely combined and the #1's just have their own date. I don't think it should be noted that Mariah Carey's song is the longest running song on the chart because it's still a new chart. It's actually the longest running airplay song is Brazil since forever, because they've always had an airplay chart, just not run by Billboard before. Jayy008 (talk) 14:12, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Although I thank you for the acknowledgement of the "longest running" and combining points, respectfully, your logic is in error regarding a number of points.
Firstly, look at the French chart I linked above. There are several instances of a title falling from number one for a week or even two and then regaining the top spot. Just because a chart is only updated every month, rather than every week, does not change the possibility of such a dynamic. So we have no proof that a single that averages out to #1 over the course of a month was actually the #1 single for each week of that month, and the data given does not allow us to draw the conclusion that it was. We could extrapolate that a song that was the #1 song for twelve months was the #1 song for a year, because the metric is each month and twelve months from now is a year from now, it's simple logic. But just as you surely know that we do not presume the #1 song of a specific year (as is measured in several articles here at Wikipedia) was not actually the #1 song each month of that year, neither can we presume the #1 song of the month was actually the #1 song of each week of that month. We apparently can't know that it wasn't, but neither can we presume that it was; we must present the same metric officially presented by the chartist, in this case a monthly figure.
Secondly, the fact that any published chart is obviously representing figures from prior to the time it "went to press" doesn't change the fact that a song making two or three charts is still a song charting for only two or three chart periods, in this case months (but again the same is true for weeks). So if Beyonce was #1 for the October and November charts, it was actually #1 in September and October, still just two months. And if Mariah Carey was #1 for the December, January and February charts, that's representing the three months of November, December and January. So then a March chart would reflect February, a fourth month, not a fifth one. When you say "from December to now makes 17 weeks," it seems you are forgetting there is no source cited for the claim that she is the #1 single now, and as you note that whatever the #1 single on a March chart would be is actually not representing now but some point before the end of February (if, as you state, it is updated at the beginning of each month), and it takes until April to determine what is number one now, again, this is a conflation of metrics. After all, if as you suggest there is an official rundown of weekly charts, then why do our Brazilian lists fail to acknowledge that, in favor of a monthly metric?
Thirdly, if the Billboard Brazil chartings are being sourced to something other than Billboard Brazil, that should be evident by the reference cited on each page a Billboard Brazil chart figure is being presented. While it is extremely hard to track down chart references for pre-internet-era recordings, it shouldn't be this vague to what we are sourcing a contemporary charting in 2010. Abrazame (talk) 01:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
for a start, this place is to discuss charts not songs, it isn't even listed on the article on wikipedia that it reached #1 for 20 weeks...So why are you bringing it up? But it is listed as #1 with a reliable source. What you say about going 2-1-1-2 in a month is impossible because it's a monthly chart, only. So I Want to Know What Love Is has been number one November, December, January, February, March. This is radio provider in Brazil What's listed in the Article now is that it reached #1 and it's reliably sourced. Nothing else. Jayy008 (talk) 14:18, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A few points to address in this discussion. First, Jayy008 is correct that Crowley compiles the chart, and Crowley has compiled Brazilian airplay charts for a long time. However, (and this is a big "however"), they did not publish a national airplay chart, only regional ones. Thus, there is no history before the publication of the first Billboard Brasil to make a valid comparison to.

Second, the Billboard Brasil website is a shambles. No archiving, days where all the charts disappear, links to US charts appearing in inappropriate places. The website cannot be used as a source, only the magazine.

Third, as for articles that reproduce lists of number ones or otherwise reproduce chart data from proprietary sources, I maintain that they should all be deleted as copyright violations. Discussions of folding them or how to format them are moot: if the purpose they serve is to reiterate a chart, they shouldn't exist.—Kww(talk) 14:37, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All I mean it, in the article for "I Want to Know What Love Is", nobody has mentioned "#1 for 20 weeks etc" so what does it matter? I just can't see the relevance. Jayy008 (talk) 17:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's because Abrazame removed the claim based on the argument he is presenting here.—Kww(talk) 01:36, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, there's no source for the 20 weeks thing anyway and the provider doesn't archive it, so it shouldn't be used. Jayy008 (talk) 17:19, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Kww, for clearing that up. But my issues remain unresponded to, which is even more troubling a week after I first noted them. Not unlike Legolas' comment in the Argentina thread below about CAPIF, I am unclear on the purpose of mentioning or linking http://www.crowley.com.br/arquivos_comuns/about_crowley.asp in this thread. Is the current national airplay chart posted somewhere at the Crowley site? Is there a searchable database there? If so, can we post a site map on how to get there for English language users? I'm troubled that we're 18 days into the month and a chart that by the explanation above was supposed to have been available two and a half weeks ago is still not cited in the articles I mention above. The Billboard.br link I pasted above from one of our article cites is still blank. This does not seem to be the way a major operation like Billboard handles data they find encyclopedic and worthy, and presenting as our most recent data in the second half of March material from a February chart that, as Jayy008 notes, actually represented airplay in the month of January, raises some red flags to me on how seriously we should take this as a reliable chart.

To Jayy008, you say that the song has been number one in February and March: where have you gotten that information? Again, this is about the chart, not about the song, but of course the purpose of the chart is to make claims about songs, and it perplexes me how you and others are doing that.

I thank you, too, Kww, for your response about the Brazilian albums chart in the thread below. Abrazame (talk) 11:29, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

An anon added March figures to the Brazil singles charts on March 21. The Billboard.br page is still empty, more than three weeks after I first noted it. So where are these figures coming from? Why is there no source cited whatsoever for a current and very specific promotional data point in the internet era? And what's the deal with Billboard.br? I mean, how many purposes are there for that site other than to note the Brazilian chart positions? Abrazame (talk) 21:08, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am starting to have serious doubts about Billboard Brasil myself. Its site is essentially dead. This article, published only two weeks ago in Jornal de Economia describes it as a weekly publication (although our article describes it as monthly), and gives no indication that it is defunct. I've caught some editors forging references, using positions from hot100brasil.com and creating citations to show it as taken from the physical magazine. I'd like to hear from some of our Brazilian editors that can confirm the magazine is still even on the stands.—Kww(talk) 22:08, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Kww. I've noticed that people seemed to have realised that they can apparently source chart positions physically but there is no evidence to suggest the magazine is in circulation. its highly unsual that there is no online version/archive and that the magazine is not mentioned by Brazil's equivalent of IFPI. but i do wonder because www.mariahdailyjournal.com regularly reports on how carey songs are doing in brasil citing the billboard brasil magazine as a source.Lil-unique1 (talk) 22:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Kww if you translate the article it actually says the traditional weekly publication has a monthly basis in Brasil. also this article appears to show the magazine as still active as of Jan 2010. [1] Lil-unique1 (talk) 22:22, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not too surprising that I make mistakes when reading Portuguese. Not a language I'm very fluent in (I mainly recognize words that I know from Spanish and Papiamento). That cover would seem to correspond to the last chart published before the website went dead.—Kww(talk) 22:28, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Tis ok... I used Google Translate to help with the translation. Erm yeah cus the website i've given as an example usually posts the cover of the magazine regularly. A quick search on google, reuters and google news reveals very late about the fate of the chart or even if it is active.Lil-unique1 (talk) 22:32, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, my translation software says the Jornal de Economia article reads: "The magazine Billboard Brazil is a weekly publication, where its rankings are based on in such a way digital sales, how much physical and in the amount of times that music was touched in the radios of all country in the week." Though of course I don't take their word for this under the circumstances. Abrazame (talk) 22:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I saw Kww's notice at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Brazil, and yes, I confirm the magazine is still on the stands. Unfortunately, they cost quite too much for me to keep them at home only to serve as physical references, although I sometimes check them to find out information on singles I might want to work on. Victão Lopes I hear you... 02:42, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good to hear of a sighting. There is something funky going on, though. pt:Anexo:Lista de Canções número um em 2009 (Brasil) and List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2009 (Brazil) disagree. We have a List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2010 (Brazil), but there is no pt:Anexo:Lista de Canções número um em 2010 (Brasil).—Kww(talk) 02:47, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
pt:Anexo:Lista de Canções número um em 2010 (Brasil) may be just a matter of time. As of the diverging information...I tried to check the website, but the lists are not being displayed. Victão Lopes I hear you... 02:57, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The dead website is what started this discussion. We are left in the position of having to trust magazine references, and are in the unfortunate position of having some Brazilian editors that are taking advantage of the situation to add false material.—Kww(talk) 03:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that's something to worry about. I hope the list comes back soon. Victão Lopes I hear you... 20:28, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So ten days later, now in the second week of the following month, and still nothing at Billboard.br. Any effort currently being made by Brazilian editors? (Are there any Brazilian Wikipedians interested in contemporary music other than Victao? One guy who "sometimes checks" the newsstands is not enough for us to maintain coverage, and if Billboard isn't making it available online, they clearly don't wish there to be widespread notice taken.) Any objection to my opening an AfD on our lists? Abrazame (talk) 07:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And now it's been another week, still nothing at Billboard.br, and still no help from any Brazilian editor. Anybody care? AfD? Abrazame (talk) 06:44, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Forgive me, perhaps I missed something, but why would you want to delete an article because Billboard.br hasn't been updated? Which articles are you specifically targeting, and would merging the info not be a better approach? — Huntster (t @ c) 08:21, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your frustration, but you would have a very hard time at AFD. Denying the notability of the Billboard brand name would be difficult. Since the magazine appears to exist, it will meet W:V. If you want to give me a test case of my belief that all articles that reproduce charts for the sake of reproducing charts should be deleted as copyright violations, I'll support on that ground, but that's only one support. I doubt you would get others.
As for other editors, Decodet is a responsible Brazilian editor that edits music articles—Kww(talk) 15:03, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The magazine does exist. If you guys need anything from Brazil, just talk to me. I'm watching this page. Victão Lopes I hear you... 20:24, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I have not noticed this discussion before, so I was not able to leave comments before. I'll try to clarify and confirmsome points: The magazine does' exist, as Victor Lopez mentioned, and it's still a monthly release. That reference cited above has a wrong information. The website is not dead either, although they don't post chart anymore. It's still being updated with news and you guys can also see they updated the cover of the month on the site, another proof the magazine's still being published. Like Victor, I do not buy the magazine because it's a little bit expensive but I have two copies of the magazine - the December and January editions. That's the main tool I use in order to create physical references. In case you need support, feel free to contact me. I'll try my best to help everyone.
PS: I'll try to buy the April edition, since one of my fave groups is featured in the cover, so I'll be able to help everyone with this month's chart. Decodet (talk) 00:23, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is this now a suitable interim solution? it appears to be the official publication by Crawley Broadcast Systems who are responsible for Brazilian charts. I think it would need manual archiving with WEBCITE or something similar though. [2]Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the responses at long last! I was a bit perplexed that with all the discussion thus far that it wasn't clear that what those lists need are at least one Brazilian editor with some English proficiency who is willing sometime in the first week or so of the month to visit their local library or book store and note for us the #1 singles and albums of the month in the two or three genres we have seen fit to cover. (Ideally it would be someone motivated enough to be doing this for their own knowledge and enjoyment, and not dogged responsibility to an unending Wiki list.) There are pages, like List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2010 (Brazil), that are completely unreferenced. They could use confirmation and updating. (Victão Lopes has helpfully done that for the last three months of the 2009 list, though all seem to be referenced to an October edition.)
To summarize the long and digressive thread, it is Wikipedia practice and there seems to be consensus to combine these numerous Brazilian charts (Domestic and international songs/singles/airplay, and albums) as they do in other notable countries (I noted France), particularly as they are monthly and not weekly charts, to make it more convenient and comprehensive and clear for an interested reader/researcher to discover what is happening on those charts and to present more than twelve (or, given the sluggishness of the charts, however many fewer than twelve) data points each list would ultimately be presenting. The question of which to place first, second, etc., would ideally be done as a reflection of their market share (i.e. the U.S. charts would have the Hot 100 before the Country music, though perhaps the Brazilian market for domestic artists is greater than that for the international fare).
To clarify the obtaining of the data, purchasing it isn't required: If an interested editor's local library does not currently carry the periodical, chances are they have official forms you can fill out to request they subscribe to the magazine or to the paid version of Billboard.br. If they decline or are unable, it is possible they can find out if another local library in the region does carry a subscription, and they can arrange to have that copy circulated to your branch after the first week or so, or you can visit the neighboring town to do the research. (At least that's the way things are handled in U.S. libraries.) Here, some individual newsstands may frown on browsing through a magazine but others do not; bookstores like Barnes & Noble and Borders and music retailers like Virgin carry Billboard and allow browsers to take notes and even have free Wi-Fi to upload directly from there on a laptop or other device, perhaps that's so in Brazil as well? The #1s in the U.S. magazine are all listed on the first inside page, so it doesn't even require paging through the magazine, you can find it in an instant.
A specific question: is there any source whatsoever that publishes the weekly data from this Crawley Broadcast Systems to which people keep referring? If they are a notable, independent, legitimate entity (and, indeed, if they are not), we need an article explaining their mission, their purview, like Nielsen ratings.
I've never nominated an AfD and did not actually wish to in this case — my actual wish is that every nation has its own music chart and that there is an accurate, updated and referenced representation of such here at Wikipedia. Many thanks to those interested in understanding and following their local music charts and representing them here. Perhaps consolidating the Brazilian charts together on one page and setting a good Wikipedia standard for referencing them (particularly given the lack of web access) will spread the word and get others interested in reading and responsibly updating the lists with the new figures each month. Best, Abrazame (talk) 07:25, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes this had been cited by Universal Music as an Official Source from Crawley Broadcast Systems that would need manually archiving i think.Lil-unique1 (talk) 15:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I just wanted to point out that it's been another ten days and not a single effort to cite or combine the lists (I reverted two uncited additions for April).
I would also point out to Decodet that he is partly incorrect when he says "The website is not dead either, although they don't post chart anymore." The site is still designed to present the data on these pages, they simply are blank. While the site as a whole is not a dead link, it is a dead site from the perspective of the very point of Billboard, the presentation of chart data. Billboard has always had news from around the world, so the fact that news continues to be updated at Billboard.br is not particularly illuminating. It's not that I don't take editors at their word that Brazilian Billboard continues to be published, it's that our acknowledgement of something of a monthly nature that apparently nobody is interested in citing sources for or updating on a monthly basis is as perplexing and shoddy as is Billboard's handling and promotion of the Brazilian chart.
I return to the question from the standpoint of Wikipedia editors: why no effort in all this time to cite and update and combine the lists?
I return to the question from the standpoint of Billboard: If Billboard stands behind the accuracy and newsworthiness of the Brazilian charts in the international forum, why have they failed to update their site to present the last few months' #1 chartings as they do on the U.S. site? If there is some reason to treat the presentation of Brazilian #1s differently than the presentation of U.S. #1s, then A.) What is that difference, and B.) Why would they not redesign the site to remove the pages/links that purport to present them? Abrazame (talk) 23:37, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I bought the April issue of Billboard Brasil, then I can help anyone who wants to verify peak positions. Decodet (talk) 02:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit table

There isn't the link of the BPI in the certifications of the singles in UK and there isn't the link of the RIAJ for the certifications in Japan (from 2003 to date for Gold & Platinum and Million from the launch of the award) http://www.riaj.or.jp/data/others/gold/index.html -- http://www.riaj.or.jp/data/others/million_list/index.html . Furthemore, the CRIA certified also in the RPM era, not only in the SoundScan era (it's divided in the table). SJ (talk) 16:55, 28 March 2010 (UTC+1)

I fogot to signal also the link of the Norway official chart that include an all-time archive. http://lista.vg.no/ Also the link for the Diamond Award in Poland. http://www.zpav.pl/plyty.asp?page=diamentowe&lang=pl SJ (talk) 18:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC+1)

Belgium

If song hasn't charted on ultratop 40/50 that then is added position of song on belgium tip parade. my suggestion is that if song has charted on tipparade we add, for flandres 50+tipparade position, and for wallonia 40+tipparade position. example: song has charted on #7 on both flandres and wallonia.

I disagree... it doesn't exclusively say that the tipparade is bubbling under the ultratop. The Tipparade is simply a chart that songs may chart on before the acscend to the ultratop. i dislike the idea of doing it with US charts and propose the same for this chart too. As an editor from the UK (where we dont have bubbling under charts) i personally find example two much easier to use than example 1 as well as more navigable. Lil-unique1 (talk) 18:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Lil-unique. It was a bad habit people got into with the Bubbling Under charts, and I see no reason to spread the practice to other charts. Ultratip links to a reasonable place, so it should be used as the chart identifier.—Kww(talk) 18:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
ok. i see your point:)--SveroH (talk) 13:48, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
AGREE with example 2, as it shows the EXACT proper chart name and the position on it.—Iknow23 (talk) 23:24, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Example 1. By experience, I have been confused and did not know that the Tip charts were bubbling under, and I know other people will also. Example 1 gives the exact charting not where it bubbled under as, or whatever. Candyo32 (talk) 01:24, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, this probably needs to be discussed in another topic, but the Dutch charts have a bubbling under also. And I think on the music articles the Dutch Top 40 and the Single Top 100 are becoming confused, because Hung Medien, the another common source for international charts other than acharts, uses the Single Top 100. However, I think the Dutch Top 40 is the preferred because it is single and airplay, and the Single Top 100 is only physical singles & downloads. Candyo32 (talk) 01:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Example 1. The Belgian chart system works like "bubbling under" --Triancula (talk) 06:21, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch Top 40 vs Top 100 and sources

Ok two questions.

  1. Which chart should be used? which is preferred?
  2. Is this a good source for top 40? [3] i didnt wanna remove it till i'd checked. Lil-unique1 (talk) 23:31, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Megachart 100 is a physical-only chart, while the Dutch Top 40 is an airplay/sales chart. There's also the Mega Top 50, which is an airplay/sales chart. I've never found a good archive for it. Technically, the Megachart 100 is a component of the Mega Top 50, and the Dutch Top 40 is an independent chart. In practice, the normal recommendation is to treat Megachart 100 as a component of the Dutch Top 40: use the Dutch Top 40 if it charted there, and use the Megachart 100 if it only charted on the Megachart 100.
As for futuremusiccharts.nl, it is a mix of private charts and reprints of public charts. We've gone through FMC while discussing Marc Mysterio, an act that only charted in Cyprus, the Ukraine, and the FMC. The conclusion was that the FMC wasn't notable enough to consider a chart. Its reprints of public charts are probably valid enough, but radio538.nl is the licensed publisher and should be used instead.—Kww(talk) 00:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Kww. Very helpful, thats gr8. Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another question though: is the Dutch Tipparade different to the Single Top 100? Its use on Gypsy (Shakira song) has baffled me.Lil-unique1 (talk) 01:24, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can't we just use the one listed on Hung Median, like say "Dutch Singles Chart" to make it simple, and use the chart pos from there? Jayy008 (talk) 13:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Dutch Tipparade is more like Bubbling Under. I don't object to people listing the Megachart 100 from Hung Medien even if it made the Dutch Top 40, but it's redundant to list both. Acharts archives the Dutch Top 40, so some of the listings you see with "Dutch Singles Chart" are really the Dutch Top 40 and some are the Megachart 100: there's no way to tell without checking the sources. That's why I object so strongly to people listing things as "country Singles Chart": it's vague and misleading.—Kww(talk) 14:38, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Which does the macro do? Should we just leave it at that? Jayy008 (talk) 19:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I listed this same situation under the Belgium charts discussion but no one replied. Anyway, what i think is up there. Candyo32 (talk) 02:41, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The macro uses the Megachart 100 from Dutchcharts.com if you specify "Dutch100", and the Dutch Top 40 from radio538.nl if you specify "Dutch40". There is no "Dutch" option.—Kww(talk) 02:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Top 40 is the official chart in Netherlands. In this site there is also an archive. http://www.top40.nl/ SJ(talk) 13:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What I usually do is if Hung Median list a song as 40 as above I'll put "Dutch40" and if it's over 40 I'll say "Dutch100" I guess that was very wrong. Jayy008 (talk) 19:37, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. When I do a macro conversion, my last step is to click all the links and verify the numbers. If you did that, then you will at least have put an accurate number into the article.—Kww(talk) 20:26, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But the wrong chart lol, Hung Median is always official for all charts, so should we just used Mega Single Top 100 for all articles as it's the one from Hung Median?? Jayy008 (talk) 20:39, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Both charts are valid. This points out one of the reasons that it is important to verify the generated links: if you click the generated link and actually make sure the article matches the position on the chart the generated link takes you to, everything would be fine: you would never wind up matching a Dutch Top 40 position to a Megachart 100 chart.—Kww(talk) 21:07, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Got it! Jayy008 (talk) 21:44, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

IMPORTANT Changes - Airplay, Digital and Billboard

Hi all. It has come to my attention that some editors are still confused about the usuage of component charts in particula: Billboard component charts. To conclude the work being done to WP:USCHARTS i would like to pose the following:

  1. All US radio airplay charts are demoted to component charts of the Hot 100 Airplay to reflect the fact that songs charting on Hot 100 Airplay must have charted on at least one of the following (but not limited to, below are the most popular examples):
  2. The rules be changed to reflect the introduction of 21 new digital genre charts by Billboard.
    • For example Hot Dance Club Songs will still prevail over Hot Digital Dance/Electro Songs.
  3. Dropping the billboard part of the chart except for the Billboard 200 and Billboard Hot 100 for consistancy with Billboard.biz. This would result in charts appearing as:

Please can you give your opinion, each time referring to proposal 1, proposal 2 or proposal 3 so that we can clearly see what the consensus is. Thanks. Lil-unique1 (talk) 21:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First, keep in mind that we are not the people who decide what a component chart is. That is a decision made by the chart provider. A component chart is one where the transformation from the component chart to the main chart is a purely numerical transformation (i.e., "3 points for position on airplay chart + 2 points for position on sales chart"). The charts you are listing are genre charts: they are compiled by monitoring airplay on a subset of stations identified by Billboard as associated with that genre, and cannot be numerically weighted into the Hot 100 airplay. Therefore, I vociferously and adamantly oppose proposal 1. Proposal 3 doesn't matter much to me. Proposal 2 seems like normal maintenance: the purpose of WP:USCHARTS is to provide a tabulation of the impact of our "component chart" rule. If these new charts are not component charts, they cannot be treated as component charts, and the correct treatment needs to be added.
Second, bear in mind that there is no way to "promote this to policy". It's a guideline, and will live or die by it's level of public acceptance.—Kww(talk) 21:17, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with 2&3 and only agree with 1 if Pop Songs is an exception and is still allowed. Jayy008 (talk) 21:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with #2. #1 - I think Pop Songs should be an exception, and also Rhythmic Top 40/Rhythmic Airplay because it effectively points out successful urban & pop crossovers. #3 - I think if we are removing Billboard, then what's the point of keeping Billboard Hot 100? Might as well call it US Singles Chart if we're changing everything else? Candyo32 (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Because it's called Billboard Hot 100. The others haven't got Billboard in the name. Jayy008 (talk) 22:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Jayy008; w/proposals 1, 2 & 3. Dan56 (talk) 22:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In response to Kww: Actually WP:USCHARTS is currently listed as a proposal so it had yet to reach guideline/policy status. I've spoken to JubileePoliceMan who is currently auditing the music part of WP:MoS and we've come to agreement that the information could be rationalized into WP:record charts under a US Singles Charts Heading. In response to all other comments... Billboard is only the chart provider and since we do not use this for other charts i see no point to do so for billboard. The Hot 100 is the only exception because it is the only chart which actually has it in its name. Lil-unique1 (talk) 23:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely it can become a part of the guideline. I have a real problem with having it try to stand alone as a separate guideline (much less as a policy). It shouldn't be trying to change the existing guidelines, though, just explain them. Trying to redefine component is not a good way to change a guideline. If people decide some genre charts aren't worth mentioning, that's one thing: trying to do it by saying they are component charts when they aren't is another.—Kww(talk) 23:58, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No thats the point. Im glad i opened the discussion because you've pointed out that there is a valid reason as to why Pop Songs can be used but other airplay charts not used. I was in no way trying to re-define a component chart. Rather the opposite... based on the information we have i was trying to draw the clearest conclusion possible. Im trying to iron out the glitches before the info is rationalised to record charts. There is some more work to be done on the digital charts bit. but the main bit at USCHARTS aparts to be ok. what do you think? Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:04, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree with Prop 1, strong agree with 2 and 3. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:29, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No idea about 1. Agree with 2 but what applies before the new digital charts by Billboard? Agree with 3. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 09:52, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well in terms of two.... i am going try and produce a list of the 21 charts available. There will need to be some new rules like Digital Dance/Electronic Songs is of lesser importance that Dance club songs therefore use dance club songs. Also like Rhythmic Digital Chart will also take a backseat to the R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart etc. Lil-unique1 (talk) 10:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rolling Stone?

I know Rolling Stone is a reliable source for charts and discographies of musical artists but is the website working? I am facing issues while trying to access it. --Legolas (talk2me) 06:37, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like they've revamped their website. Artist bios, which used to be at http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/foo, now appear to be at http://www.rollingstone.com/music/artists/foo/ and then some code. It also looks like a lot of album reviews have disappeared. --JD554 (talk) 07:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Good lord, those strings are so bizarre! How are we gonna update the urls? This is even worse than Billboard. Atleast they had the news article number intact while changing the url. --Legolas (talk2me) 08:20, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Crickey... the code really does have to be there. I tried removing it from those I clicked on to get http://www.rollingstone.com/music/artists/foo/ but ended up at a 404 page. E.g. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/artists/NeilYoung/;kw=[artists,8665,36823] works but http://www.rollingstone.com/music/artists/NeilYoung/ doesn't. What the heck are they up to? --Jubilee♫clipman 09:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Dang. I forgot about those brackets... That makes it even harder! You need to convert the brackets into code, as well:
[ becomes %5B and ] becomes %5D
Hence, Neil Young is found at http://www.rollingstone.com/music/artists/NeilYoung/;kw=%5Bartists,8665,36823%5D in fact. Ugh... --Jubilee♫clipman 09:33, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Blimey, there are so many links to Rolling Stone. And fuck, their search is more crap than Billboard's. None of the existent articles come up in the old search. --Legolas (talk2me) 09:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bump - any thoughts on how to sort this out? --Jubilee♫clipman 17:17, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know. I have been adding the journal entries for the existing links for the pages I watch. --Legolas (talk2me) 07:25, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Join Discussion

Wikipedia_talk:Record_charts/Billboard_charts_guide#Rhythmic_Top_40_2 Thanks! Candyo32 (talk) 01:44, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Important discussion regarding the future of the guideline

Please participate in /Billboard charts guide#Time to move forward and formally propose this page as a Guideline?. The questions raised there go beyond the future of that subpage. I have suggested that this main MOS be split into two pages: MOS and Content. Thank you --Jubilee♫clipman 13:29, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RfC

It is proposed that Wikipedia:Record charts/Billboard charts guide be merged into WP:record charts. Please comment over at the RfC merge proposal. Thanks --Jubilee♫clipman 01:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

MoS naming style

There is currently an ongoing discussion about the future of this and others MoS naming style. Please consider the issues raised in the discussion and vote if you wish GnevinAWB (talk) 21:00, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should russia be added to bad charts?

Today i came across a strange occurance whilst editing. I've noticed the use of tophit.ru to source russian airplay. I've usually left it in or left it down to other editors to use their discretion as to whether it should be used or not. However for the song "I Got You" by Leona Lewis i found the following:

  • It was the chart position 210 based on the chart Airplay Detection TopHit 100.
  • The disclaimer/note at the bottom says (translated) "Data for the last past week, are in this column, from Monday to Tuesday change every hour, in accordance with information received from radio stations. At midnight from Tuesday to Wednesday the position of the track on a weekly chart TopHit 100 fixed and then remains unchanged.".

Based on that are we to say this chart has an acceptable methidology? i've seen it appear quite a lot in articles so if we decide its methidology is dubious it should be added to Badcharts.Lil-unique1 (talk) 06:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like the position is stable once it is archived, but data from the current page can't be trusted. That isn't too much different than our situation with charts that have a page that updates every week and a stable archive.—Kww(talk) 14:02, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a stable archive for Russia? I've already encoutered pages like this used to source charts before.Lil-unique1 (talk) 14:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I should add this to WP:GOODCHARTS:http://www.tophit.ru/airplay_week.shtml —Kww(talk) 15:11, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support'.Lil-unique1 (talk) 16:47, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree Jayy008 (talk) 14:16, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OFFICIAL Polish Airplay Chart and Video Chart (NOT Polish National Top 50) - please, add! :)

From Polish Music Charts:

Official Polish Airplay Chart is provided by Nielsen Music Control Airplay Services. The Top 5 spots of the airplay charts is published at the official Nielsen Music site every week.

Since 2010 ZPAV publish extended version of Polish Airplay at the official ZPAV site:

  • Polish Airplay TOP 5 - the most popular songs on polish music stations (radio and TV);
  • Polish Airplay TOP 5 - New - the most popular new singles this week;
  • Polish Airplay TOP 5 - UP! - the biggest jumps this week;
  • Polish Airplay TOP 5 - Video - the most popular videoclips on MTV Polska, VIVA Polska, VH1 Polska and 4fun.tv;
  • Polish Dance TOP 50 - the most popular songs in the clubs;
  • Polish TOP Store Chart 50 - the most popular songs played in music shops and shopping centres.

http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/index.php

Please, add polish airplay or polish TOP5 Video here. MecenasMuzyczny (talk) 09:41, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

These used to be on the list, and I agree that they are valid charts (except for the Polish Dance Top 50 and Polish Top Store chart 50 ... if you have links for those, I'll look into them). The problem is that they aren't archived. Once a new week's charts are added, there's no way to see what was there before. Consensus was to removed all unarchived charts from WP:GOODCHARTS.—Kww(talk) 15:07, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, links:
  1. http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/top5.php - Airplay TOP5 (archives: http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/top5.php?action=getArch);
  2. http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/video.php - Video TOP5 (archives: http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/video.php?action=getArch)
  3. http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/nowosci.php - New Singles TOP5 (archives: http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/nowosci.php?action=getArch)
  4. http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/skoki.php - The Biggest Jumps TOP5 (archives: http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/skoki.php)
  5. http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/sklepy/index.php - TOP from music stores (archives are not available yet)
  6. http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/dyskoteki/index.php - TOP from Clubs (archives: http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/dyskoteki/index.php?action=getArch).
MecenasMuzyczny (talk) 20:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't see they had added the archives. I'll get most of these added in the next day or so. I'm still not seeing an archive link for "Top w dyskotekach", though.—Kww(talk) 21:53, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. :) It's a new site and I'm so happy that ZPAV (FINALLY!) publish TOP5 Airplay and TOP5 Videoclips and Poland has official airplay and video chart (not only the album's chart). Women from ZPAV told me, they are going to publish more than 5 positions but not yet - in the Future. Airplay TOP5 and Video TOP5 are most important for me, as music fan from Poland but it's great to see "Top5 New Singles" or "Top5 Jumps". MecenasMuzyczny (talk) 22:18, 10 May 2010
"Top w dyskotekach/Dance Top 50" or this one with music shops... well, as I said -it's a new site. I see that they publish Dance TOP 50 every TWO weeks and now we can see only first chart (14-30.04.2010). So I guess archives will be published in next week/month or something. (UTC)MecenasMuzyczny (talk) 22:26, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've added the Top 5 chart. I'll add the shop and club charts after the archiving starts.—Kww(talk) 14:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks. Could you add TOP5 of video too? Is it a good chart? MecenasMuzyczny (talk) 10:30, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Music Notability

Hello, I'm opening a discussion about the refinement and clarification of notability criteria. your opinion here would be appreciated. Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ "{{{artist}}} – {{{song}}}" (in Dutch). Ultratop 50.
  2. ^ "{{{artist}}} – {{{song}}}" (in French). Ultratop 50.
  3. ^ "{{{artist}}} – {{{song}}}" (in Dutch). Ultratip.
  4. ^ "{{{artist}}} – {{{song}}}" (in French). Ultratip.
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